2915 réponses à ce sujet

[izmirtheastarach]

AxisEvolve wrote...

It was confirmed by Bioware that the demo intro was taken straight from the final game. Supposedly someone got the game early (check the spoiler group for more info) and you only get an additional line from Anderson if you import from ME2. Although I won't deny that isn't 100% confirmed as true. I still hold hope that things will be change and the intro will be introduced in a more consistent manner, but I doubt it more and more now.

In fact the only line difference for that section is if you completed Arrival. If you didn't, you likely get the same dialogue as we see in the demo.

[movieguyabw]

It was confirmed by Bioware that the demo intro was taken straight from the final game. Supposedly someone got the game early (check the spoiler group for more info) and you only get an additional line from Anderson if you import from ME2. Although I won't deny that isn't 100% confirmed as true. I still hold hope that things will be change and the intro will be introduced in a more consistent manner, but I doubt it more and more now.

Well that blows.

[izmirtheastarach]

movieguyabw wrote...

For me, this is why I'm still looking forward to the game.  However, I agree with a lot of the criticisms I've seen about the demo (I even posted my thoughts on the feedback thread).  All I'm (and I'm sure what everyone else is) looking for is confirmation that this isn't the official intro.  A 15-20 minute segment prior to Shepard staring out the window at the little kid would nulify a lot of complaints; where it's explained how Shepard got to Earth, why he's incarcerated, who Vega is, and why everyone suddenly believes you about the Reapers.  If that's in the game, then I'm all for the intro.  I'm just hoping Bioware comes out and actually states that a large chunk was taken out of the intro, for spoiler purposes.

But the spoilers are still there, if you look for them. Every piece of dialogue from Earth, Mars, and Sur'Kesh is in the demo's audio files. If they were really that concerned about hiding the content, it likely would not be there.

[DPSSOC]

Harshfact wrote...
I'm not a huge fan of the intro but you do realise that apart from one or two questions among your list we sort of know ALL THE ANSWERS before ME 3 even starts right ? this is a sequel after all. while in KOTOR 2 there was NO introduction as to the questions asked in KOTOR. so unless you're complaining it's not good enough for someone who is new to the series (which i think they shouldn't expect to jsut jump in and get everything) i don't see your point

No I'm not arguing for the new players, they can take a long walk and buy the first two games for all I care.  I'm arguing that I just finished Arrival before playing the demo and I have no idea what the hell is going on.

Harshfact wrote...
Where's my ship? uh...Grounded ?

 
Well I was thinking more specifically; the list was long enough I didn't feel anyone would want to read every question written out to the extent I'd thought it through.  Where is it specifically, when was it taken from me, how was it taken from me (the specific circumstances of seizing the vessel), etc.

Harshfact wrote...
How did I end up on Earth? If you've played the Arrivial it's more than clear ...even if you haven't shep's still pretty guilty by playing the whole cerbrus side

 
The events of Arrival and ME2 cover why not how.  Did Shepard turn himself in, if so why considering there's nothing compelling him to do so (outisde their jurisdiction in a damn hard to find ship).  Was Shepard captured and brought in by force, if so under what circumstances.  ME2/Arrival ends with me on a ship and the demo starts with me on Earth; what is the series of events that lead me from A to B.

Harshfact wrote...
Why am I in a detention center?  refer to my previous answer
When/how was I stripped of my ran? refer to the pre-previous answer

The first question actually stems from how Shepard is being treated.  If Vega, Anderson, hell anyone treated Shepard like s/he was a prisoner I wouldn't question it but since they aren't I question wtf is going on.  On rank again when/how is more about the specific details.  Was it offered as a compromise (lose rank but stay active in an advisory capacity), did Shepard argue against it, did he accept it calmly, etc.  Most of my questions stem from the fact that there is a massive gap between where we are at the end of ME2 and where we are at the beginning of the demo and that really should be covered.

Harshfact wrote...
Who is the defence committee? this one i admit is "DNM" but does it really matter? they are a group of admirals

Why am I answering to them? For the love of...Anderson already explained this...HELL it was even asked by shep himself

The defence committee doesn't really matter but I still want to know who are they.  Anderson never explained any such thing in the demo I played.  He explained my relationship with the committee (advisor on Reapers), but never why I'm serving in such a position.  I'll say it again there is nothing forcing Shepard to play ball with the Alliance at the end of Arrival, s/he is operating well outside their ability to enforce any ruling upon him/her.  So if there's nothing forcing me to work with the Alliance (whether I want to or not) why have I chosen to?  Why has my Shepard agreed to go back to work for an organization that has repeatedly stabbed him in the back and kicked him while he was down?

Harshfact wrote...
If I'm being kept around to help about the Reapers why don't I appear to have been doing anything?  Shep seemes to be pissed off about this too "that's why they grounded me, took away my ship..." next one will explain this though
If the Committee believes me about the Reapers why don't they appear to have been doing anything?  huh! here i thought "mobilising the fleet bit was about this. officially Reapers are just a "myth"  but there is also strogn evidence so they're sort of up in the air about it.

Yes mobilizing the fleet is a response to an obvious threat, but I got the distinct impression that, until things started going to s*** they were just kind of twiddling their thumbs, and if they believe me about the Reapers why would they do such a thing?  Arrival gives them the perfect excuse to be aggressive in military production and operation (preparing for war with the Batarians) so why are they sitting on their hands.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 18 février 2012 - 09:19 .

[txgoldrush]

phimseto wrote...

squee365 wrote...

Earth is the prelude.

Mars is the real intro.

True, and unfortunately, that's where I expect the other shoe to drop for me...when Cerberus goes from interesting shade of grey/possibly necessary evil to "Gnargh!  EVIL!" with Indoctrination as a lazy excuse.

So Cererbus in ME1, Ascension, or Retribution weren't evil?

For a series based on humanity, its only normal to have humans as villains as well. The final shots of TIM in ME2, especially on the save the base side, tells a lot about TIM.

Modifié par txgoldrush, 18 février 2012 - 09:26 .

[txgoldrush]

DPSSOC wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

Turryn wrote...
Honestly I don't care what particular plot device they were going to use.

Most people, it is fairly safe to say, did not play Arrival. Even if that's not true, there hasn't been some sudden industry wide shift wherein people are expected to have completed DLC before buying the new game.

Clearly, from DA2 on, there is someone at Bioware who thinks it is somehow interesting to just drop players into a new situation with no explanation and rush forward with the story. It is not. It's jarring and awkward, it feels lazy and it's just incredibly bad writing.

No it is no bad writing....many stories and games drop you into a new situation without explaining things only to explain them later.

Hell KOTOR II did it...the very beginning was shrouded in mystery.

Well let's look at Kotor II, it's been a while so I may be misremembering.  Yes the opening raises a lot of questions; where am I, how did I get here, who is this woman, etc.  The difference between how KotOR II handled this and the ME3 demo is that KotOR answered these questions before you left the station, or in other words before the answers didn't matter anymore.  The demo doesn't pull that off, which means we can only hope to get answers long after such answers become pointless.

Where's my ship? Does not matter got it back now
How did I end up on Earth? Again does not matter anymore
Why am I in a detention center?  DNM
When/how was I stripped of my ran? DNM
Who is the defence committee? DNM
Why am I answering to them? DNM
If I'm being kept around to help about the Reapers why don't I appear to have been doing anything?  DNM
If the Committee believes me about the Reapers why don't they appear to have been doing anything?  DNM

The only questioned raised for me in the opening of the demo that's still worth answering after the conclusion of that segment is who the hell is Vega?  That's.  Bad.  Writing.

And once again you are comparing the full game of KOTOR II with the demo of ME3....lets instead compare both intros to eachoter...

Both do not answer your questions right away.

[DPSSOC]

khankar wrote...
give bioware a break. remember this is just a demo.  the final build may not necessarily start the same way. demo's often leave out parts that may contain spoilers. i don't think we should judge an unreleased game solely by its demo. let's play the finished product and then complain about bad writing (if applicable).

Aside from being told it's direct from finished product no I will not give Bioware a break.  We gave George Lucas a break and we got the prequels.  Bioware has a history of excellent writing and fantastic games and I hold them to the standard I know their capable of.  This intro, if taken directly from the game, does not meet the standard they have set for themselves.  And I just realized how much I sound like my old teachers so I'm going to go cry for a while.

[izmirtheastarach]

txgoldrush wrote...

So Cererbus in ME1, Ascension, or Retribution weren't evil?

For a series based on humanity, its only normal to have humans as villains as well.

Cerberus is only evil in ME1 & 2 if that is your opinion. If you are playing Renegade, your views MIGHT BE much more in line with Cerberus. They would be extremists, but not evil. The ends justify the means.

But if TiM literally allies with the Reapers, then he is no longer somone that even Renegades can relate to.

[DPSSOC]

txgoldrush wrote...
And once again you are comparing the full game of KOTOR II with the demo of ME3....lets instead compare both intros to eachoter...

That's what I did.  Paragus II raises a number of questions, those that don't matter once you're off Paragus II (Where am I, how did I get here, etc.) are answered before you leave the station.  The ME3 demo raises a number of questions that don't matter once you're off Earth and doesn't answer a single damn one.

[txgoldrush]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

So Cererbus in ME1, Ascension, or Retribution weren't evil?

For a series based on humanity, its only normal to have humans as villains as well.

Cerberus is only evil in ME1 & 2 if that is your opinion. If you are playing Renegade, your views MIGHT BE much more in line with Cerberus. They would be extremists, but not evil. The ends justify the means.

But if TiM literally allies with the Reapers, then he is no longer somone that even Renegades can relate to.

and ME3 will show you how dumb it was to share opinions wtth hem.....they used shepard plain and simple.

[txgoldrush]

DPSSOC wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
And once again you are comparing the full game of KOTOR II with the demo of ME3....lets instead compare both intros to eachoter...

That's what I did.  Paragus II raises a number of questions, those that don't matter once you're off Paragus II (Where am I, how did I get here, etc.) are answered before you leave the station.  The ME3 demo raises a number of questions that don't matter once you're off Earth and doesn't answer a single damn one.

No it doesn't...like who was that Sith lord, who am I? etc. Only later does it.

[izmirtheastarach]

txgoldrush wrote...

and ME3 will show you how dumb it was to share opinions wtth hem.....they used shepard plain and simple.

Even as a pure Paragon, I feel like I was using him just as much as he was using me.

[Rudy Lis]

txgoldrush wrote...

and there has been a huge leak of the beta script...do I need to remind people of this....

And?
I tried to avoid it at all costs, but seen few bits here in BSN, before "all of a sudden" they decided to block spoilers on ME3 here. After several weeks of them flashing around. And some still are here, as signatures, for example. Maybe I should went total blackout, don't know, but I met few good people here, so those few spoilers, IF they were spoilers could be ignored. So to speak.

txgoldrush wrote...

Its like judging an upcoming album poorly because you didn't like the first single. Its illogical.

Why is that? If that single was promoted as "best" of that album and you dislike "best" song from album, why bother purchase it? Of course, I agree, singer/band/promoters may have different visions of "best song", so bad single not necessary means bad album.

However, regarding games I consider such approach as correct one - demo version should demonstrate you "what's what" in full version and convince you to purchase it. Most demos did that for me, even when I had no idea what to wait from certain game (new genre, for example). Only few demos were uncapable to convince me to purchase full versions. So far, playing games, which demos I disliked, proved me right - crappy demo meant crappy game. For me at least.

Mostly I disliked ME3 demo. Not because of crappy graphics, or animations, or even still present projectiles velocity issue; like I stated before, I can ignore it, should there be good story and/or, as incinerator950 stated - good combination of features. But I was unable to see that in Demo. What I've (yes, "I", not "we") seen in ME3 demo:
- Story. None, some random "poor excuses for placeholders". No, I'm not about trial, I'm about lack of any storytelling, other than "OMFG, we losing contacts" and "follow me, Shepard". Worst tutorial I ever seen. Maybe not worst, but from "down below".
- Sound. Maybe it's something with my system (why it works fine with other games, even ME1-2 then?), but I haven't heard nothing epic. Most remembered and annoying moment is "feed from UK", because sound level of that part was much higher than rest of demo. And it wasn't that "surrounding" and "volumetric", just loud. Same VO for "they wait you too" some person (they can't fix ranks and insignia for third installment of series?) and ensign from ME2 start - both died, apparently.
- Music. Just one composition "OMG, they reaped lased Kenny kid, them bastards!" Good composition, can't say nothing against.
- Weapons. Can't say for sure, weapons felt a little better than ME2, but still, conflicts with codex about hyper-velocity. Firing sounds sucks. After all that hype about DICE cooperation (or I was misinformed about that?)... Mattock wasn't that bad, though.
- Graphics and animations sucks. Even in comparison with ME2. Yes, I can let it slide, even that "oh, meh skatin" or "meh runnin' thru headwind!" animations, but not yet.
- Action. Seems to be most "promoted" element, but it wasn't perfect too, especially because of "watch my back, I'm huuuge" Shepard's size, strange camera behaviour and controversial movement-cover interactions. Fine on lower difficulties, but extremely annoying on Insanity. Add "cover no longer cover" issues, when you cannot recharge your shield under fire and you can rename difficulty from "Insanity" to "Schizophrenia".

Yes, it's just demo, yes, they may fix it in release or with future patches or even DLCs (hmm, funny idea release patch as DLC and ask money for it), but so far all I can base my estimates and appraisals is Demo. Because, unlike all statements from Bioware personnel, I can "poke" demo and check it personally. Should ME3 be new title, not "last part of Shepard's trilogy", I wouldn't pre-ordered it, basing my opinion on Demo quality. And not, I'm not going to preorder my cancel.

txgoldrush wrote...

If its a band you liked in the past, plenty.

Why you bought album - because it is your favorite band or because you actually like those songs?

[TMA LIVE]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Rickin10 wrote...

give bioware a break. remember this is just a demo. the final build may not necessarily start the same way. demo's often leave out parts that may contain spoilers. i don't think we should judge an unreleased game solely by its demo. let's play the finished product and then complain about bad writing (if applicable).

It's been confirmed the intro/earth section is exactly the same, save for one sentence uttered by Anderson.

Yep. All the dialogue is in the audio files as well. The differences are tiny. You used to be a Council Spectre/You are a Council Spectre. Stuff like that.

I kind of hate that line. I wish the scene played like this:

Anderson: But you were a Council Spectre. That has to count for something.

Shepard: Yeah, well you were once a Councilor. What did that do?

Anderson: ....

Shepard: Yeah, exactly. We're screwed.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 18 février 2012 - 09:43 .

[izmirtheastarach]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I kind of hate that line. I wish the scene played like this:

Anderson: But you were a Council Spectre. That has to count for something.

Shepard: Yeah, well you were once a Councilor. What did that do?

Anderson: ....

Shepard: Yeah, exactly. We're screwed.

Hah.

[Dragoonlordz]

txgoldrush wrote...

And once again you are comparing the full game of KOTOR II with the demo of ME3....lets instead compare both intros to eachoter...

Both do not answer your questions right away.

What relevance is there to this topic spamming the thread with what other games do, what other movies do, what other books do? Those products are pointless to this discussion as far as I am concerned as they are not the ones I am currently buying. Mass Effect 3 introduction is what disappointed me... "Mass Effect 3". If I have a problem with Kotor 2 I will take it up on Kotor forums. This is ME3 forums and I am expressing my concern and disappointment about this title.

Stop ranting on about other games, they are not relevant to my concerns or disappointment with this aspect in this one.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 09:48 .

[txgoldrush]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

And once again you are comparing the full game of KOTOR II with the demo of ME3....lets instead compare both intros to eachoter...

Both do not answer your questions right away.

What relevance is there to this topic spamming the thread with what other games do, what other movies do, what other books do? Those products are pointless to this discussion as far as I am concerned as they are not the ones I am currently buying. Mass Effect 3 introduction is what disappointed me... "Mass Effect 3". If I have a problem with Kotor 2 I will take it up on Kotor forums. This is ME3 forums and I am expressing my concern and disappointment about this title.

Sorry if I didn't fit YOUR RULES of debate......bla bla bla...

Comparisons with other games are definitely valid, especially you know, games are often influenced by others.....

[izmirtheastarach]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What relevance is there to this topic spamming the thread with what other games do, what other movies do, what other books do? Those products are pointless to this discussion as far as I am concerned as they are not the ones I am currently buying. Mass Effect 3 introduction is what disappointed me... "Mass Effect 3". If I have a problem with Kotor 2 I will take it up on Kotor forums. This is ME3 forums and I am expressing my concern and disappointment about this title.

Didn't I point that out days ago? You know he/she is going to keep comparing it to random, unrelated, and completely irrelevent things. I mean he/she just compared the demo intro to the first single on an album. Baffling arguments, all of them.

Going to keep coughing up the same tired arguments again and again. Nothing we can do about it.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 18 février 2012 - 09:50 .

[txgoldrush]

Here is another game that just throws you into the action at the very beginning without fully explaining whats going on. That must be bad writing...oh wait, its considered to be one of the greatest RPGs of all time....

Hell, who is ???????????

Modifié par txgoldrush, 18 février 2012 - 09:51 .

[Dragoonlordz]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What relevance is there to this topic spamming the thread with what other games do, what other movies do, what other books do? Those products are pointless to this discussion as far as I am concerned as they are not the ones I am currently buying. Mass Effect 3 introduction is what disappointed me... "Mass Effect 3". If I have a problem with Kotor 2 I will take it up on Kotor forums. This is ME3 forums and I am expressing my concern and disappointment about this title.

Didn't I point that out days ago? You know he/she is going to keep comparing it to random unrelated, and completely irrelevent things. I mean he/she just compared the demo intro to the first single on an album. Baffling arguments, all of them.

Going to keep coughing up the same tired arguments again and again. Nothing we can do about it.

He/she is trolling and many of us have contronted him or her with the fallacy of his or her arguments and yet she or he keeps trolling the thread. Honestly I think a 24 hour suspension or warning from the mods would be required at this point. But maybe they enjoy his/her trolling because thats the only reason I can see as to why he/she is still here doing the same.

[izmirtheastarach]

txgoldrush wrote...

*snip*

Here is another game that just throws you into the action at the very beginning without fully explaining whats going on. That must be bad writing...oh wait, its considered to be one of the greatest RPGs of all time....

Hell, who is ???????????

There are no words for how ridiculous your arguments are. I am speechless.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 18 février 2012 - 09:53 .

[txgoldrush]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What relevance is there to this topic spamming the thread with what other games do, what other movies do, what other books do? Those products are pointless to this discussion as far as I am concerned as they are not the ones I am currently buying. Mass Effect 3 introduction is what disappointed me... "Mass Effect 3". If I have a problem with Kotor 2 I will take it up on Kotor forums. This is ME3 forums and I am expressing my concern and disappointment about this title.

Didn't I point that out days ago? You know he/she is going to keep comparing it to random, unrelated, and completely irrelevent things. I mean he/she just compared the demo intro to the first single on an album. Baffling arguments, all of them.

Going to keep coughing up the same tired arguments again and again. Nothing we can do about it.

And how am I random?

I basically debating how starting off with A) all action or with very little questions answered isn't bad writing.

I am consistant as day and night.

[izmirtheastarach]

txgoldrush wrote...

I am consistant as day and night.

Every few pages you say something that completely contradicts an argument you made earlier. 

[txgoldrush]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...

I am consistant as day and night.

Every few pages you say something that completely contradicts an argument you made earlier. 

and how so?

oh wait, I didn't.

[DPSSOC]

txgoldrush wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

txgoldrush wrote...
And once again you are comparing the full game of KOTOR II with the demo of ME3....lets instead compare both intros to eachoter...

That's what I did.  Paragus II raises a number of questions, those that don't matter once you're off Paragus II (Where am I, how did I get here, etc.) are answered before you leave the station.  The ME3 demo raises a number of questions that don't matter once you're off Earth and doesn't answer a single damn one.

No it doesn't...like who was that Sith lord, who am I? etc. Only later does it.

Ok I must not be making myself clear.  Those questions you ask still matter after you leave Paragus II, the answer is still of value.  Answers that don't matter after you leave Paragus II  are questions like how you got there, where there is, etc.  It doesn't matter how you got to Paragus II once you manage to escape.  These questions are all answered before you leave Paragus II.  There are still questions unanswered but they aren't rendered irrelevant by your escape.

The ME3 demo is the same there are questions that don't matter once you're off Earth and questions that do.  Who's Vega is an example; he's still with you so who he is and how you know him is still relevant.  None of the questions that really should be answered before you leave Earth are.