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So, what happened to the trial?


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#2326
Dragoonlordz

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txgoldrush wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I do not care about a leak, I do not care about if it was cut, I do not care what other games have done... What I care about and same with the over 360+ people who felt the same way in the poll I ran is that the introduction was to short, it felt rushed and not enough control, exposition and freedom was given to the player [before] the attack. In their replies it was detrimental to their enjoyment of the game having it so short and so rushed though.

For me it goes deeper than that and I have yet to hear you counter what I said here about this aspect.

I have a desire to see the Earth prior to being left in ruins, it has never been set foot on in the entire past two titles by Shepard and given he/she was there for 6 months I would like to have some control over seeing it before it is reduced to rubble in the last in the trilogy. Upon that same principle is the interaction I would like with other inhabitants and especially the alliance command prior to them all being butchered within first couple minutes of forced dialogue and forced off the planet.

Like I said the trial is one aspect of a greater element that disappointed me, a vast wasted opportunity and one that would have not been ground breaking for those who did not wish to do take part. They could of headed right to the trial from the detention cell if they felt the desire to get right into the combat and skip that which we enjoy. But we would have had the ability to decide the pace just for short while by letting us decide when to head there, who to interact with until that point and places to visit if we so wished to gain exposition and immersion first.

As for myself the trial serves more purpose than just backstory. Involves interaction with people will not see again, seeing the world in a state and exploring it in a way won't see after attacked, getting to have it out with the admirals (Alliance) much in same way for past two titles you have had the opportunity with the Council. The content of that confrontation granted would make more sense to be about past actions and more. Vega cannot be an adequate substitute for that at a later date. He does not represent the Alliance command or the Admirals, his view is less important because he is a mere squad mate to be and his reaction is the reaction of one person not your government or superiors. There is vastly more to it than just trial too for me of which already explained...


Some people are focusing on the leak and the taking your bait about what other games do or do not have. But make no mistake I have no intention of taking your bait on that regard because the only game that matters to me is one currently buying which is ME3 and what would increase or decrease my enjoyment of it.


and when does everybody know for a fact that was in fact the full intro....hell, the intro may not be over, but the demo is just part of it. Hell they don't even leave the solar system yet. Was the full Sur'Kesh mission in the demo? Nope.

Ever come to mind that maybe the demo was NOT the full intro? Like say what if the demo to ME2 had the Normandy attack and the Cerebrus base without freedom's progress in ME2. Would the intro seem to lack deatil then?

That whole poll is based off not enough info.


Thats not a counter to my statement. If takes part somewhere else and with someone else this is contrary to what I just said. That is not a solution that would increase my enjoyment of the game it is not even on topic of what I just said because we already know that introduction is the one in game and have been told this, at the end of that you are not longer on Earth.

Unless the introduction is longer on Earth "pre-ruins state" and longer with the Alliance admirals "who just got wiped out", longer time interacting with people "just butchered" and prior to world we have missed out on for two entire titles (while it was still intact)... Then how is your suggestion going to change anything, it doesn't remove my disappointment for wasted opportunity or what they gave us being detrimental to my enjoyment of the game.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 février 2012 - 10:59 .


#2327
txgoldrush

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izmirtheastarach wrote...

Every piece of dialogue in the Earth & Mars missions is in the demo's audio files, including the ride from Earth to Mars, and all the way to the end of that mission. Can't discuss specifics due to spoilers, but there is nothing there that explains anything.


and how about Mars to Citadel?

The intro to ME2 was in three parts as well....

#2328
izmirtheastarach

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txgoldrush wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Every piece of dialogue in the Earth & Mars missions is in the demo's audio files, including the ride from Earth to Mars, and all the way to the end of that mission. Can't discuss specifics due to spoilers, but there is nothing there that explains anything.


and how about Mars to Citadel?

The intro to ME2 was in three parts as well....


I know. Nothing will convince you. It's okay. I've given up with you. Just posting that info for other people who are interested.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 18 février 2012 - 10:49 .


#2329
TMA LIVE

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Another thing they could have done is skip ahead. That the trial happened off screen.

When I read Deception, with Batarians on the Citadel and then getting an embassy, I thought of the possibility of both the Alliance and the Council making sacrifices just so they could keep Shepard away from a death sentence with the batarians. And those sacrifices being done with backroom deals being made during the trial. And the end verdict exiles Shepard to Earth.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 18 février 2012 - 10:47 .


#2330
izmirtheastarach

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TMA LIVE wrote...

Another thing they could have done is skip ahead. That the trial happened off screen.

When I read Deception, with Batarians on the Citadel and then getting an embassy, I thought of the possibility of both the Alliance and the Council making sacrifices just so they could keep Shepard away from a death sentence with the batarians. And those sacrifices being done with backroom deals being made during the trial. And the end verdict exiles Shepard to Earth.


You could start with Shepard leaving the trial, and venting about how no one listened to him. There are any number of way to do it.

#2331
DPSSOC

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[quote]Harshfact wrote...

[quote]DPSSOC wrote...

[quote]Harshfact wrote...
I'm not a huge fan of the intro but you do realise that apart from one or two questions among your list we sort of know ALL THE ANSWERS before ME 3 even starts right ? this is a sequel after all. while in KOTOR 2 there was NO introduction as to the questions asked in KOTOR. so unless you're complaining it's not good enough for someone who is new to the series (which i think they shouldn't expect to jsut jump in and get everything) i don't see your point [/quote]

No I'm not arguing for the new players, they can take a long walk and buy the first two games for all I care.  I'm arguing that I just finished Arrival before playing the demo and I have no idea what the hell is going on.

[quote]Harshfact wrote...
Where's my ship? uh...Grounded ?[/quote]
 
Well I was thinking more specifically; the list was long enough I didn't feel anyone would want to read every question written out to the extent I'd thought it through.  Where is it specifically, when was it taken from me, how was it taken from me (the specific circumstances of seizing the vessel), etc.[/quote]

Lol well i guesss i'm a bit senstive hence all the trouble and if you turn yourself in/captured i assume it's seized either way by the Alliance? as for the when ... are we really expecting the game to go into THIS much details ? in either case they got it and it's done . filling in the gaps is kinda fun...plus these might be explained later on i get that you said these won't matter anymore after you get the Normandy back, but honestly that much detail in the intro would be a bit tedious i'd rather be filled in later if there are any details[/quote]
 
It's not really that much detail.  Here's all I'd need a quick cutscene at the very beginning with Joker bringing the Normandy to Earth and being directed to land.  Joker turns to Shepard and asks, "We can still make a break for it Commander." the player is given the option of

Paragon: We need Alliance support if we want to have any chance of stopping the Reapers, turning myself in is the best option.
Joker: Aye sir.

Renegade: If I don't turn myself in they'll just keep hounding us and I can't wast time fighting them with the Reapers on the way.  Besides maybe I can convince them to finally do something.
Joker: Wouldn't count on it. 

This covers what happened to the Nomrandy, as well as how you ended up in Alliance custody, willingly turning yourself in with the player getting to choose their Shepard's motivation.

[quote]Harshfact wrote...
[quote]
[quote]Harshfact wrote...
Why am I in a detention center?  refer to my previous answer
When/how was I stripped of my ran? refer to the pre-previous answer :lol:[/quote]

The first question actually stems from how Shepard is being treated.  If Vega, Anderson, hell anyone treated Shepard like s/he was a prisoner I wouldn't question it but since they aren't I question wtf is going on.  On rank again when/how is more about the specific details.  Was it offered as a compromise (lose rank but stay active in an advisory capacity), did Shepard argue against it, did he accept it calmly, etc.  Most of my questions stem from the fact that there is a massive gap between where we are at the end of ME2 and where we are at the beginning of the demo and that really should be covered.[/quote]

I think you're requiring too much details to be filled in honestly. shep's not a prisnoer... i think he's actually in the same state as the "wtf" that you are in...they can't court-martial him due to the fact that he's such a major figure, but also due to his knowledge of the Reapers so he's up in the air as for how he accepted it i think everyone's shep would react differently so it's best that it's not explained[/quote]
 
That's the thing though by not explaining it they remove player control.  We've been able to decide Sheps motivation and actions in almost everything, but the start of ME3 is not only go to rob us of that control, but keep us in the f***ing dark.

[quote]Harshfact wrote...
[quote]
[quote]Harshfact wrote...
Who is the defence committee? this one i admit is "DNM" but does it really matter? they are a group of admirals

Why am I answering to them? For the love of...Anderson already explained this...HELL it was even asked by shep himself[/quote]

The defence committee doesn't really matter but I still want to know who are they.  Anderson never explained any such thing in the demo I played.  He explained my relationship with the committee (advisor on Reapers), but never why I'm serving in such a position.  I'll say it again there is nothing forcing Shepard to play ball with the Alliance at the end of Arrival, s/he is operating well outside their ability to enforce any ruling upon him/her.  So if there's nothing forcing me to work with the Alliance (whether I want to or not) why have I chosen to?  Why has my Shepard agreed to go back to work for an organization that has repeatedly stabbed him in the back and kicked him while he was down?[/quote]

"They're just scared" bit would be why you're answering to them, Anderson's good work (consider doing him a favour) and maybe because you're grounded ? if shep would be grounded he'd be willing to do anything to be able to do something about it along with numbers of other reasons as to why you are forced.. i explained it before any shep with a brain would turn himself in due to lack of support from, well anywhere at least he has Anderson and Hackket in the Alliance[/quote]

Again this is part of the jump between ME2 and 3.  At the end of ME2 I had support.  I was still on good terms with TIM, the Quarians, the Geth; I have a sizeable force ready to back me up.  Why run to the Alliance?


[quote]Harshfact wrote...
[quote]
[quote]Harshfact wrote...
If I'm being kept around to help about the Reapers why don't I appear to have been doing anything?  Shep seemes to be pissed off about this too "that's why they grounded me, took away my ship..." next one will explain this though
If the Committee believes me about the Reapers why don't they appear to have been doing anything?  huh! here i thought "mobilising the fleet bit was about this. officially Reapers are just a "myth"  but there is also strogn evidence so they're sort of up in the air about it.[/quote]

Yes mobilizing the fleet is a response to an obvious threat, but I got the distinct impression that, until things started going to s*** they were just kind of twiddling their thumbs, and if they believe me about the Reapers why would they do such a thing?  Arrival gives them the perfect excuse to be aggressive in military production and operation (preparing for war with the Batarians) so why are they sitting on their hands.[/quote]

I don't get it when did we see them sitting on their hands ? if they considered an attack from Batrians surely the first war wouldn't happen on Earth ? they could have an Army spread around the colonies or whereever they want to secure other regions but Reapers are powerful enough to "cut through their defenses hence the whole fuss about not beign entirly ready because, posibly the fleet is spread among the galaxy
[/quote]

Personal interpretation of their reactions to the Reaper arrival and Shepard's "unless we plan to talk the Reapers to death the committee is a waste of time." line.  The former implies they didn't actually think they'd come (IMO) and the latter suggests prolonged inaction on the part of the comittee.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 18 février 2012 - 11:05 .


#2332
Doozie80

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Since Bioware is aiming for the CoD fanbase, they wanna make the intro as short as possible so the average player wouldnt lose interest.

Who cares about your old and loyal fanbase huh? Trial? DONT NEED IT.

/sarcasm

#2333
Rudy Lis

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Doozie80 wrote...

Since Bioware is aiming for the CoD fanbase, they wanna make the intro as short as possible so the average player wouldnt lose interest.

Who cares about your old and loyal fanbase huh? Trial? DONT NEED IT.

/sarcasm


Ain't existing beginning a bit long for CoD?

/irony

#2334
mornegroth

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I think that, by removing the trial from ME3, Bioware lost a good introduction to the game. From what I've seen in the demo this whole deal feels like a shameless plot device to keep Shepard on Earth so we can assist to the arrival of the Reapers.

Modifié par mornegroth, 18 février 2012 - 11:47 .


#2335
Fluwm

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Wow.

To be perfectly honest, I've been able to ignore a lot of BS about ME3--the Origin EULA, "action" mode stuff (that has absolutely no place in an RPG). But this is the last straw. It seems to me they've removed crucial exposition and RPG elements to make ME3 a (fairly generic) shooter, with very little player interaction. All of my enthusiasm for this game has completely evapporated.

#2336
KainrycKarr

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Chris Priestly wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

Then you're the kind of customer EA wants. No sense bogging players down with plot and character development when there are things to kill!

(Sorry I couldn't help it, I'm disappoineted at the opening- it's another bit of railroading and cut corners)


Ok, I know I'm a tool of the Man and all, but how so?

If you are a new player (haven't played ME1 or ME2) you learn who Shepard is, why he's on earth, what the Reaper threat is, and then the story begins.

If you are a continuing player (have played either or both of the previous games) you already know the plot and character development because you helped form it with your previous play throughs and the story picks up after ME2.

I'm sorry you're disappointed, but I'm not completely sure why?



:devil:


Because there was no flipping trial, Chris, after we were told there was. We didn't get any discussion of our actions, no chance for character development via defending/explaining our actions, no nothing.

We got like five lines, then the council turns into five year olds(or at least the poorly written characters of five year olds) and inexplicable turns to us like a child to it's parent, even though we were presumably relieved of duty and basically shamed.


It's garbage, and you know it. 

#2337
elearon1

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What it comes down to is if I was playing a pen and paper game and after my character saved the Galaxy yet again in his very own space ship, (which, I'll remind you belonged to Cerberus, not the Alliance) and was now either a Spectre - in which case I don't answer to Earth Alliance - or a rogue captian, in which case I don't answer to Earth Alliance; had a cadre of powerful allies, a reputation that could open doors, friends in high places, a girlfriend who was the post powerful information broker in the galaxy, criminal contacts who owed me favors, and much much more. If after all that, and having no reason whatsoever to return to Earth where I would doubtlessly be courtmarshalled or worse, I began my gaming session with the GM telling me that not only had I returned to Earth, but I had handed over my ship to them, inexplicably presented myself for their judgement, and all my allies - including my love interest - had gone their separate ways while I spent the last six months under military house arrest ... I'd pick up my character and walk out the door.

While I'm sure the rest of the game will be fantastic, this was the most ludicrous way in the world to introduce my character back into the Mass Effect franchise, while completely ignoring every single character defining decision she had made in the last game. With as useless and uninformative as the opening was you might as well have had her start the game in orbit around Earth, fighting her way through a Reaper blockade on her way to get help - the material on Earth itself added *nothing* to my story and, in fact, only served to detract from it by being so ludicrously contrived.

#2338
NekoPanOnline

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Bioware isnt bioware anymore thats all there is to it :/

#2339
NubXL

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I've gotta believe that whole intro segment was just chopped up a bit for the demo. It serves as a really ******-poor launching pad if that's really how it goes down in the final game.

#2340
izmirtheastarach

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NubXL wrote...

I've gotta believe that whole intro segment was just chopped up a bit for the demo. It serves as a really ******-poor launching pad if that's really how it goes down in the final game.


It is not chopped up. It is identical to what is in the game. We have been assured of this, and after listening to all of the audio files in the demo, I believe it to be true.

#2341
NubXL

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izmirtheastarach wrote...

NubXL wrote...

I've gotta believe that whole intro segment was just chopped up a bit for the demo. It serves as a really ******-poor launching pad if that's really how it goes down in the final game.


It is not chopped up. It is identical to what is in the game. We have been assured of this, and after listening to all of the audio files in the demo, I believe it to be true.

That's pretty disappointing if true.  It feels like a lot of information is missing.

#2342
YankeeBravo

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NubXL wrote...

I've gotta believe that whole intro segment was just chopped up a bit for the demo. It serves as a really ******-poor launching pad if that's really how it goes down in the final game.


This keeps being brought up, mostly by the "don't judge the game by the demo, it's just a demo" crowd, but...

That's exactly why this thing has been drawn out to almost 100 pages now.

Bioware, in the person of Chris Priestly, stepped in relatively early and definitively said what you get in the demo is what you get in the game.

Given that the game had already been sent off for certification/publisher approval by that point, even had Bioware seen the feedback/outrage and decided "Ok, we have to do something about this", their hands were tied.

So...It's probably not a great idea to go with the "It'll be okay, they surely changed this in the full game. It can't be like this" mindset since you're just setting yourself up for another disappointment.

The bottom line is,unless Chris is blatantly lying to us about the intros being identical, Bioware royally screwed up in some misguided effort to either make the intro more friendly to new players or in an effort to get to the flashy combat faster (since the missing narrative would have tacked on an extra 5-20 minutes depending on if it were handled as a cutscene or as a playable dialogue).

What's more disappointing is not one member of the writing staff or one "community manager" has had the nerve to come back and either tell us we're all worrying over nothing or to explain why the intro was mangled as it appears to have been.

#2343
izmirtheastarach

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Having listened to all the dialogue that exists for the Earth mission, I am as close to 100% sure as I can be, that there is nothing missing from the demo. There are a couple of lines that will be different for people who import, but other then that there is nothing cut out.

#2344
NubXL

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YankeeBravo wrote...

NubXL wrote...

I've gotta believe that whole intro segment was just chopped up a bit for the demo. It serves as a really ******-poor launching pad if that's really how it goes down in the final game.


This keeps being brought up, mostly by the "don't judge the game by the demo, it's just a demo" crowd, but...

That's exactly why this thing has been drawn out to almost 100 pages now.

Bioware, in the person of Chris Priestly, stepped in relatively early and definitively said what you get in the demo is what you get in the game.

Given that the game had already been sent off for certification/publisher approval by that point, even had Bioware seen the feedback/outrage and decided "Ok, we have to do something about this", their hands were tied.

So...It's probably not a great idea to go with the "It'll be okay, they surely changed this in the full game. It can't be like this" mindset since you're just setting yourself up for another disappointment.

The bottom line is,unless Chris is blatantly lying to us about the intros being identical, Bioware royally screwed up in some misguided effort to either make the intro more friendly to new players or in an effort to get to the flashy combat faster (since the missing narrative would have tacked on an extra 5-20 minutes depending on if it were handled as a cutscene or as a playable dialogue).

What's more disappointing is not one member of the writing staff or one "community manager" has had the nerve to come back and either tell us we're all worrying over nothing or to explain why the intro was mangled as it appears to have been.

I simply haven't bothered to read through all 100 pages, so I didn't know whether or not any BioWare staff confirmed the half-assed intro or not.

#2345
izmirtheastarach

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NubXL wrote...

I simply haven't bothered to read through all 100 pages, so I didn't know whether or not any BioWare staff confirmed the half-assed intro or not.


You may be assured that they have.

#2346
DJBare

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I simply haven't bothered to read through all 100 pages, so I didn't know whether or not any BioWare staff confirmed the half-assed intro or not.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9243095&lf=8

When looking at a thread before entering it, if you see Bioware in blue below the title, click it to take to the first post my by a Bioware rep/dev.

#2347
NubXL

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DJBare wrote...

I simply haven't bothered to read through all 100 pages, so I didn't know whether or not any BioWare staff confirmed the half-assed intro or not.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9243095&lf=8

When looking at a thread before entering it, if you see Bioware in blue below the title, click it to take to the first post my by a Bioware rep/dev.

Thanks for the tip.  Seen those on numerous threads, but didn't notice their posts on the first or last pages.

#2348
YankeeBravo

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NubXL wrote...
I simply haven't bothered to read through all 100 pages, so I didn't know whether or not any BioWare staff confirmed the half-assed intro or not.


No worries. Wasn't really meant as "read the thread" or anything like that.

Just a general mini-diatribe at those adopting the "it's only a demo, you can't judge anything at all by that" or "it's not intended to be representative of the final game" mindsets.

I think some of it's just people wanting to turtle a bit, pull their heads inside shells and pretend like it's all going to be fine when the game comes out.

The other bit is likely the "broader market opportunity" that EA attempted to capture with ME 3. The ones enthusing about how ME 3 feels just like Gears of War and how awesome the MP classes are and 'what do you mean it's an action RPG?'....You know, the type who think it'd be great if they just opened the game 5 minutes later and skipped the intrusive talking stuff.

#2349
Loghain_The_Lawless

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And so begins my long search for the Bioware comment. I don't know if I'll complete this heroic quest. If I'm not back in 2 years, tell my grandchildren I love them.

#2350
DJBare

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A.G.Randad wrote...

And so begins my long search for the Bioware comment. I don't know if I'll complete this heroic quest. If I'm not back in 2 years, tell my grandchildren I love them.

social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/9243095&lf=8