164 réponses à ce sujet

[xIxDarkWolfxIx]

I think we have all come to the conclusion that the ship that blew up was in fact NOT a Dreadnought. Ashley/Kaiden was probably referring to another vessel. Well that is what I am going to believe anyway.

Evidence to support the above theory;
-Dreadnought's cannot enter atmosphere
-Dreadnought's are roughly 1km in length
-The floor system on a Dreadnought is specially built for space, and would be useless (in fact a problem) on a planet.
-Firing the main gun on a Dreadnought in atmosphere would likely result in catastrophic damage to the vessel and the surrounding area.
-Uses the Cruiser (Original Dreadnought) model
-Finally the time delay between the pick-up roughly equating to 10-15 mins.

Evidence Against;
-Ashley/Kaiden referral to a ship, possibly the one in question.
-Model was originally a Dreadnought

Did I miss anything?

[Robhuzz]

CROAT_56 wrote...

I thaught that frigates are the largest ships that could be planet side due to there weight and gravity, even the Normandy can't land on some planets due to her size? But in the demo there is a dreadnaught getting blown up in atmosphere.  Did bioware just mess up the diolague or am I missing something in the Codex?

So what's your point? You're saying not even the normandy can land on some planets. I haven't seen a dreadnaught that landed on a planet, have you?

Any ship can enter the atmosphere, even carriers and dreadnaughts, only they cannot land on planets because they do not have enough power to take off again if they do land.

I think we have all come to the conclusion that the ship that blew up was in fact NOT a Dreadnought. Ashley/Kaiden was probably referring to another vessel. Well that is what I am going to believe anyway. 

BioWare did confirm that it was, in fact, a dreadnaught. I'm too stubborn to accept that explanation though so I consider it a cruiser.<_<

Modifié par Robhuzz, 13 février 2012 - 12:11 .

[incinerator950]

xIxDarkWolfxIx wrote...

I think we have all come to the conclusion that the ship that blew up was in fact NOT a Dreadnought. Ashley/Kaiden was probably referring to another vessel. Well that is what I am going to believe anyway.

Evidence to support the above theory;
-Dreadnought's cannot enter atmosphere
-Dreadnought's are roughly 1km in length
-The floor system on a Dreadnought is specially built for space, and would be useless (in fact a problem) on a planet.
-Firing the main gun on a Dreadnought in atmosphere would likely result in catastrophic damage to the vessel and the surrounding area.
-Uses the Cruiser (Original Dreadnought) model
-Finally the time delay between the pick-up roughly equating to 10-15 mins.

Evidence Against;
-Ashley/Kaiden referral to a ship, possibly the one in question.
-Model was originally a Dreadnought

Did I miss anything?

Not really.

[xIxDarkWolfxIx]

incinerator950 wrote...

xIxDarkWolfxIx wrote...

I think we have all come to the conclusion that the ship that blew up was in fact NOT a Dreadnought. Ashley/Kaiden was probably referring to another vessel. Well that is what I am going to believe anyway.

Evidence to support the above theory;
-Dreadnought's cannot enter atmosphere
-Dreadnought's are roughly 1km in length
-The floor system on a Dreadnought is specially built for space, and would be useless (in fact a problem) on a planet.
-Firing the main gun on a Dreadnought in atmosphere would likely result in catastrophic damage to the vessel and the surrounding area.
-Uses the Cruiser (Original Dreadnought) model
-Finally the time delay between the pick-up roughly equating to 10-15 mins.

Evidence Against;
-Ashley/Kaiden referral to a ship, possibly the one in question.
-Model was originally a Dreadnought

Did I miss anything?

Not really.

Good, I can cross this one off the list 

[incinerator950]

xIxDarkWolfxIx wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

xIxDarkWolfxIx wrote...

I think we have all come to the conclusion that the ship that blew up was in fact NOT a Dreadnought. Ashley/Kaiden was probably referring to another vessel. Well that is what I am going to believe anyway.

Evidence to support the above theory;
-Dreadnought's cannot enter atmosphere
-Dreadnought's are roughly 1km in length
-The floor system on a Dreadnought is specially built for space, and would be useless (in fact a problem) on a planet.
-Firing the main gun on a Dreadnought in atmosphere would likely result in catastrophic damage to the vessel and the surrounding area.
-Uses the Cruiser (Original Dreadnought) model
-Finally the time delay between the pick-up roughly equating to 10-15 mins.

Evidence Against;
-Ashley/Kaiden referral to a ship, possibly the one in question.
-Model was originally a Dreadnought

Did I miss anything?

Not really.

Good, I can cross this one off the list 

We've pretty much narrowed it down to being a Cruiser in low orbit, and the Dreadnaught in question did makea sacrifice, or that Cruiser was indeed the dreadnaught, put in there for whatever reason.

[MouseNo4]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I would think in times of a massive alien invasion (both a massive attack and massive aliens) you are willing to risk the damage to the planet to try to repell the attackers.

And the fact that Dreadnough vs Reaper - you are not likely to have the slightest chance of survival anyway.... so why the hell not try anyway. 

[Wulfram]

If it wasn't intended to be a Dreadnought, then the scene was poorly written.  Since that's very much the impression it gives you.

I've given up on expecting the game to pay any attention to it's own codex on stuff like this. Just set your expectations to "Star Wars" and enjoy the cool scenes.

Modifié par Wulfram, 13 février 2012 - 12:26 .

[Adragalus]

CROAT_56 wrote...

I think the Normandy wasn't in atmosphere and that they took a shuttle up to her and then came down to pick up shep.

This. I would imagine that the Normandy was in orbit at a "spacedock" or something, seeing as it was just stripped down and retrofitted by the Alliance.

[TMA LIVE]

CROAT_56 wrote...

I thaught that frigates are the largest ships that could be planet side due to there weight and gravity, even the Normandy can't land on some planets due to her size? But in the demo there is a dreadnaught getting blown up in atmosphere.  Did bioware just mess up the diolague or am I missing something in the Codex?

Advancement in science!

[LetMeW1n]

Unbelievable, really ._.

[1136342t54_]

The Dreadnought was likely there in the same capacity that Battleship in the old War of Worlds was when it fought those tripods. Difference is that this Dreadnought had absolutely no chance in killing that Reaper.

[The_Pet]

I took this from the Mass Effect wiki about dreadnaughts:

Dreadnoughts are so large that it is impossible to safely land them on a planet.

Nothing to say a dreadnaught couldn't enter the atmosphere of a planet, just not land on it.

[1136342t54_]

The_Pet wrote...

I took this from the Mass Effect wiki about dreadnaughts:

Dreadnoughts are so large that it is impossible to safely land them on a planet.

Nothing to say a dreadnaught couldn't enter the atmosphere of a planet, just not land on it.

Pretty much. It was very likely a suicide mission at best to cover civillians and some military officials escape. They could enter atmosphere but likely not leave.

[xIxDarkWolfxIx]

1136342t54 wrote...

The_Pet wrote...

I took this from the Mass Effect wiki about dreadnaughts:

Dreadnoughts are so large that it is impossible to safely land them on a planet.

Nothing to say a dreadnaught couldn't enter the atmosphere of a planet, just not land on it.

Pretty much. It was very likely a suicide mission at best to cover civillians and some military officials escape. They could enter atmosphere but likely not leave.

Even so the rest of the Codex description does not match.
That includes the vessel, in the demo, being a model of a Cruiser (It was meant to be a Dreadnought in ME1 but a mix up lead it to being a Cruiser), the vessel is too small to be a Dreadnought as the ship seems to be roughly 200m in length max, whereas Dreadnoughts are roughly 1km in length. And finally the deck system on a Dreadnought are built for Zero G envrionments. When entering orbit the crew would be thrown to the walls, not very useful in a war situation. 
There is no reason for that ship being a Dreadnought. 

[Arppis]

MouseNo4 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

I would think in times of a massive alien invasion (both a massive attack and massive aliens) you are willing to risk the damage to the planet to try to repell the attackers.

And the fact that Dreadnough vs Reaper - you are not likely to have the slightest chance of survival anyway.... so why the hell not try anyway. 

Well they said finding Ilos was impossible too, not to mention going to Collector base and taking them on.

:3

Modifié par Arppis, 13 février 2012 - 01:31 .

[1136342t54_]

xIxDarkWolfxIx wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

The_Pet wrote...

I took this from the Mass Effect wiki about dreadnaughts:

Dreadnoughts are so large that it is impossible to safely land them on a planet.

Nothing to say a dreadnaught couldn't enter the atmosphere of a planet, just not land on it.

Pretty much. It was very likely a suicide mission at best to cover civillians and some military officials escape. They could enter atmosphere but likely not leave.

Even so the rest of the Codex description does not match.
That includes the vessel, in the demo, being a model of a Cruiser (It was meant to be a Dreadnought in ME1 but a mix up lead it to being a Cruiser), the vessel is too small to be a Dreadnought as the ship seems to be roughly 200m in length max, whereas Dreadnoughts are roughly 1km in length. And finally the deck system on a Dreadnought are built for Zero G envrionments. When entering orbit the crew would be thrown to the walls, not very useful in a war situation. 
There is no reason for that ship being a Dreadnought. 

ME ships have artificial gravity in the form of ME fields. It can compensate for atmosphere.
 
Art designers always ****s up on the scale. That isn't at all a surprise Sovereign in ME1 is 2km long but we don't really see that while on Eden Prime.

[aridor1570]

1136342t54 wrote...

xIxDarkWolfxIx wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

The_Pet wrote...

I took this from the Mass Effect wiki about dreadnaughts:

Dreadnoughts are so large that it is impossible to safely land them on a planet.

Nothing to say a dreadnaught couldn't enter the atmosphere of a planet, just not land on it.

Pretty much. It was very likely a suicide mission at best to cover civillians and some military officials escape. They could enter atmosphere but likely not leave.

Even so the rest of the Codex description does not match.
That includes the vessel, in the demo, being a model of a Cruiser (It was meant to be a Dreadnought in ME1 but a mix up lead it to being a Cruiser), the vessel is too small to be a Dreadnought as the ship seems to be roughly 200m in length max, whereas Dreadnoughts are roughly 1km in length. And finally the deck system on a Dreadnought are built for Zero G envrionments. When entering orbit the crew would be thrown to the walls, not very useful in a war situation. 
There is no reason for that ship being a Dreadnought. 

ME ships have artificial gravity in the form of ME fields. It can compensate for atmosphere.
 
Art designers always ****s up on the scale. That isn't at all a surprise Sovereign in ME1 is 2km long but we don't really see that while on Eden Prime.

Pretty much, just look the the Normandy when it picks Shepard up, it's size is too small for everything in it to fit, like the hanger.

[Lotion Soronarr]

1136342t54 wrote...
ME ships have artificial gravity in the form of ME fields. It can compensate for atmosphere.

ME fields..is there anything they CAN'T do?

 

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 13 février 2012 - 01:52 .

[lord berwick]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

ME fields..is there anything they CAN'T do?

Make waffles

[Candidate 88766]

xIxDarkWolfxIx wrote...

I think we have all come to the conclusion that the ship that blew up was in fact NOT a Dreadnought. Ashley/Kaiden was probably referring to another vessel. Well that is what I am going to believe anyway.

Evidence to support the above theory;
-Dreadnought's cannot enter atmosphere
-Dreadnought's are roughly 1km in length
-The floor system on a Dreadnought is specially built for space, and would be useless (in fact a problem) on a planet.
-Firing the main gun on a Dreadnought in atmosphere would likely result in catastrophic damage to the vessel and the surrounding area.
-Uses the Cruiser (Original Dreadnought) model
-Finally the time delay between the pick-up roughly equating to 10-15 mins.

Evidence Against;
-Ashley/Kaiden referral to a ship, possibly the one in question.
-Model was originally a Dreadnought

Did I miss anything?

Agree with pretty much everything else, but I'm certain what I underlined is wrong. The lore only talks about dreadnoughts being unable to land on planets. There is nothing indicating they canot enter a planet's atmopshere as long as their mass effect core is active (ensuring that the dreadnought's mass is low enought hat the engines can support it).

Also, you have to wonder why Bioware would feel the need to add dialogue about a dreadnought being destroyed only to show an entirely different ship being destroyed. There is plenty of evidence suggested here that it may not be a dreadnought, but it still raises the question as to why Bioware would bother to tell the player about it as opposed to informing the player about the ship they're about to see. Possibly a mistake because, as you say, that model was originally for Alliance dreadnoughts.

[xIxDarkWolfxIx]

Well all gamers know that the rule of Cool beats any rules laid down before.

[SNascimento]

As far as I remember, Cruisers could land on low gravity planets, and some alliance's dreadnoughts were the same size of cruisers... therefore, it's not impossible for a dreadnought to fly in Earth's atmosphere.
.
That said, it doesn't make sense in any possible way for a dreadnought being where that ship was. It just doesn't. Its main strength comes from it's main cannon which it couldn't use in that situation cos it not only would blow it up, but would also blow part of the city.
.
I wonder, Bioware probably thought about this. But decided to keep the VS saying dreadnough to shock players with how effortless a reaper can take out the most powerful alliance vessel. The problem is, those who would be shocked by this are more concerned with the lore, and those who are not concerned with the lore, won't be more shocked than if it was any other vessel.

[1136342t54_]

SNascimento wrote...

As far as I remember, Cruisers could land on low gravity planets, and some alliance's dreadnoughts were the same size of cruisers... therefore, it's not impossible for a dreadnought to fly in Earth's atmosphere.
.
That said, it doesn't make sense in any possible way for a dreadnought being where that ship was. It just doesn't. Its main strength comes from it's main cannon which it couldn't use in that situation cos it not only would blow it up, but would also blow part of the city.
.
I wonder, Bioware probably thought about this. But decided to keep the VS saying dreadnough to shock players with how effortless a reaper can take out the most powerful alliance vessel. The problem is, those who would be shocked by this are more concerned with the lore, and those who are not concerned with the lore, won't be more shocked than if it was any other vessel.

We don't see it use its main guns at all for some reason. It uses secondary cannons just like how the Reaper's uses its secondary weapon to take it out. Remember Sovereign used its tentacles to one shot ships. That Reaper used something more akin to point defense or a secondary weapon system. Weaker but strong enough to take out a capital ship.

[xIxDarkWolfxIx]

I am just going to tell myself that the vessel that blew up was not a Dreadnought. I can understand it being a Cruiser, but not a Dreadnought. Also even a Reaper, as powerful as they are, I doubt they could take down a Dreadnought in a few strikes. Considering the technological leaps since ME1 to ME2 let alone to ME3 will be quite large, especially in shielding technology. As well as this if it is a Dreadnought then the Alliance has lost 1 of its 8 Dreadnoughts gone. No Captain would sacrifice that unless they knew it could lead to a massive advantage in the overall war, which it does not in this case.

It is annoying, I love the ME series because it continues to stick to the lore, in most cases, however with Deception and other screw ups. It's becoming more Star Wars-y lol.
And no I will not cancel my pre-order I will love this game no matter what, it would just be cool if the Codex Development team, the Art Team, the Visual team and the Audio team talked to each other. =)

[TexasToast712]

There is a big difference between hovering in a planet's atmosphere and actually landing. Not even the Normandy was technically landed when it picked up Shepard. It was hovering.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 13 février 2012 - 02:17 .