161 réponses à ce sujet

[Lordakin]

Liara T'soni : She lives long, she is the shadow broker, she is intresting, she is beautifull, she is from another race. You can have good time with her even with your body and mind. Oh GOD!

Ashley Williams : She called me skipper in ME1. Die B****...

[CptData]

^ Funny. I thought "Skipper" sounds hot whenever she says.

Different tastes I guess.

[AgitatedLemon]

saracen16 wrote...

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

Definitely Ashley.

And as for random DB above...I can't believe you'd dump a woman just because she can't give you kids. That's shallow as hell.

DB?

I didn't say that I'd dump Miranda because of her infertility, and nor would I do that for any woman. I said specifically that if Liara is more interesting in ME3, I would dump Miranda.

If you're just going to dump Miranda, why bother romancing her to begin with?

[ncknck]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

MsSihaKatieKrios wrote...

Definitely Ashley.

And as for random DB above...I can't believe you'd dump a woman just because she can't give you kids. That's shallow as hell.

DB?

I didn't say that I'd dump Miranda because of her infertility, and nor would I do that for any woman. I said specifically that if Liara is more interesting in ME3, I would dump Miranda.

If you're just going to dump Miranda, why bother romancing her to begin with?

The reason guys romance all the girls in the first place. Das Ass.

[MegaBadExample]

Lordakin wrote...

Liara T'soni : She lives long, she is the shadow broker, she is intresting, she is beautifull, she is from another race. You can have good time with her even with your body and mind. Oh GOD!

Ashley Williams : She called me skipper in ME1. Die B****...

It all depends on your taste, really. In the end, it came down to the two women who've been there right from the start. For my canon, it has always been either Ash or Liara. My Shepard was best suited to Ashley for lots of reasons. So at time of ME1 making him pick Liara didn't make any sense to me other than: “She's a super hot underage space babe who wants to join minds” as most of you have already pointed out.

Shepard and Ash are both human, and are both soldiers to the core.They actually have normal conversations, great build up, jokes and flirts. While Liara on the other hand, talks about reproduction.

Modifié par MegaBadExample, 14 février 2012 - 09:39 .

[KotorEffect3]

Brownfinger wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

Ashley is dull, racist, and only slightly prettier than she was in the other games.

Liara is multi-faceted, compelling, and crazy hot. Plus, she's the Shadow Broker. Refer to Jack Nicholson's line in "A Few Good Men" regarding women with power.

I can understand you not being an Ashley fan but she is not racist.

I don't hate her. People try and defend Ashley because of the emotional attachment they have towards her, but what I say is devoid of all emotion. It simply is. She's a racist. She expresses her dislike of the council races, she speaks of humanity needing to rely on themselves, she didn't like the idea of Wrex and Garrus poking around the ship's vital systems. Friends to Shepard and allies to humanity. The war with the Turians was decades ago. Substitute any of the alien races in her speech with a black dude or a mexican dude, and any sensible human who could rub two brain cells together would call that person a racist.

I don't know why the flames of this issue are constantly burning here. There are people stating fact with mountains of evidence, and there are people who stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LALA  LALALAL LA LA" out of blind devotion. It's fine if you dig her, but don't pretend that the warts aren't bulging out there for all to see.

Kay?

The poetry is hot, I love intelligent women. But, I can't look past the other stuff.

Her concerns are more about security than race.  I know I wouldn't want foreign nationals poking around some of my country's most sensitive military equipment.  That isn't bigotry that is common sense.  Her dislike of the council is political more so than racial.  She even calls out that Terra Firma candidate for Tera Firma's racism.  You talk about being logical but you are not looking at her logically at all.  Now would I like her to be more open minded?  Definitely, but she is not racist, not at all.

[BlueMagitek]

CptData wrote...

^ Funny. I thought "Skipper" sounds hot whenever she says.

Different tastes I guess.

She'll always be one of my Shepard's Gilligan! 

...wait.

[Eclipse merc]

I would always go for Liara over Ash. Ash just isn't really relationship material IMO.

[Viking Stoner]

Well i have two games. One with Ashley dead & One with Kaidan dead. In ME3 i'm importing the one with Ashely dead. I never really liked her as a character, Kaidan seemed better in the demo. It also helps that Kaidan is a Biotic and i don't really need Ashley in combat since the "Soldier Warrior" type is already filled by James and possibly some others. I kept my relationship going with Liara in ME2 and i also romanced Miranda D:

Modifié par Viking Stoner, 14 février 2012 - 10:00 .

[Brownfinger]

What kind of weird tea party fantasy land are you people from? A fine, foxy woman who can do all of the fun things with none of the consequences (pregnancy)? Uh, that sounds like an all-around "win", to me. I'd take Miranda in a heartbeat, yes please.
I know she wants kids. That's fine. We'd adopt. Eventually.

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

Ashley is dull, racist, and only slightly prettier than she was in the other games.

Liara is multi-faceted, compelling, and crazy hot. Plus, she's the Shadow Broker. Refer to Jack Nicholson's line in "A Few Good Men" regarding women with power.

I can understand you not being an Ashley fan but she is not racist.

I don't hate her. People try and defend Ashley because of the emotional attachment they have towards her, but what I say is devoid of all emotion. It simply is. She's a racist. She expresses her dislike of the council races, she speaks of humanity needing to rely on themselves, she didn't like the idea of Wrex and Garrus poking around the ship's vital systems. Friends to Shepard and allies to humanity. The war with the Turians was decades ago. Substitute any of the alien races in her speech with a black dude or a mexican dude, and any sensible human who could rub two brain cells together would call that person a racist.

I don't know why the flames of this issue are constantly burning here. There are people stating fact with mountains of evidence, and there are people who stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LALA  LALALAL LA LA" out of blind devotion. It's fine if you dig her, but don't pretend that the warts aren't bulging out there for all to see.

Kay?

The poetry is hot, I love intelligent women. But, I can't look past the other stuff.

Her concerns are more about security than race.

Stop right there.
You've defeated your own argument. Yes, security concerns that have a racial bias. Her security concerns aren't based on merit, or lack thereof, they're formed solely by virtue of the fact that because these beings are of a different species, they're a possible security risk and warrant observation/intervention. It's called profiling, ask a person of Arabic descent about it. It sucks.

I know I wouldn't want foreign nationals poking around some of my country's most sensitive military equipment.

Really? Was America not once at war with Great Britain? Certainly is a lot of military cooperation there, as well as with allies across the world. In the context of Mass Effect, if you can live in the same general spaces in the Galaxy (Citadel, for one, but they're everywhere), then I'm fairly certain that the times of militant racial hostility are long past. Except the Batarians, and who aren't they pissed off at?

Like I said, it's perfectly fine if you like her. I don't have a problem with people liking her, and I never said that I did. But, you can stop deluding yourself and playing the apologist. She's a racist as hell.

Modifié par Brownfinger, 15 février 2012 - 02:10 .

[sunnydxmen]

Kaidan beats both an relationship

[PrinceLionheart]

MegaBadExample wrote...

Lordakin wrote...

Liara T'soni : She lives long, she is the shadow broker, she is intresting, she is beautifull, she is from another race. You can have good time with her even with your body and mind. Oh GOD!

Ashley Williams : She called me skipper in ME1. Die B****...

It all depends on your taste, really. In the end, it came down to the two women who've been there right from the start. For my canon, it has always been either Ash or Liara. My Shepard was best suited to Ashley for lots of reasons. So at time of ME1 making him pick Liara didn't make any sense to me other than: “She's a super hot underage space babe who wants to join minds” as most of you have already pointed out.

Shepard and Ash are both human, and are both soldiers to the core.They actually have normal conversations, great build up, jokes and flirts. While Liara on the other hand, talks about reproduction.

And then in ME2 Liara rapidly change from the "Cute, Shy Bookworm" to being "Dangerous and Damaged." One archetype to another. Even with the advantage of having more development, I'm just not feeling it too much. 

[ultimatekotorfan]

Dariustwinblade wrote...

Liara by a long shot. Ashley's romance is boring and is constantly filled with unnessary drama.

Yeah, unlike Liara's, which is filled with exciting twists and turns and no unnecessary drama short of her freaking out because of your joke regarding her interest in you and dissection. <_<

[ultimatekotorfan]

Brownfinger wrote...

KotorEffect3 wrote...

Brownfinger wrote...

Ashley is dull, racist, and only slightly prettier than she was in the other games.

Liara is multi-faceted, compelling, and crazy hot. Plus, she's the Shadow Broker. Refer to Jack Nicholson's line in "A Few Good Men" regarding women with power.

I can understand you not being an Ashley fan but she is not racist.

I don't hate her. People try and defend Ashley because of the emotional attachment they have towards her, but what I say is devoid of all emotion. It simply is. She's a racist. She expresses her dislike of the council races, she speaks of humanity needing to rely on themselves, she didn't like the idea of Wrex and Garrus poking around the ship's vital systems. Friends to Shepard and allies to humanity. The war with the Turians was decades ago. Substitute any of the alien races in her speech with a black dude or a mexican dude, and any sensible human who could rub two brain cells together would call that person a racist.

I don't know why the flames of this issue are constantly burning here. There are people stating fact with mountains of evidence, and there are people who stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LALA  LALALAL LA LA" out of blind devotion. It's fine if you dig her, but don't pretend that the warts aren't bulging out there for all to see.

Kay?

The poetry is hot, I love intelligent women. But, I can't look past the other stuff.

I find it hilarious when people pretend their viewpoint is purely intellectual or apathetic and that everyone else's opinions are baseless and reliant upon emotion. Emotion enters into your opinion because Ashley irritates you, whether it's because of her "racism" or anything else about her that puts you off. Don't pretend differently and don't presume that someone with a different opinion is just emotional and that you see things others don't, or refuse to see. Not to sound antagonistic but its incredibly annoying.

Ashley is a bit racist towards the beginning of the game because she has had little experience with aliens, and they are the reason her family is blacklisted in the Alliance military. She hardly gets promoted because her (great?)grandfather surrendered to the Turians at Shanxi.

I'm not blindly defending a blatant, in-your-face, KKK racist. I'm saying that you're convinced (simply due to your apathy and deep thinking ) that she is an extreme of racist. She makes judgements based on species not race. Comparing that to today's racism, judging other humans by the color of their skin doesn't prove your point. She's distrusting and probably afraid of an alien species that she thinks her government puts complete faith in after coming into contact with them only decades ago. How long were African-americans belittled and judged based on their skin before they were accepted by the majority of America (and most of Europe for that matter)? Are you completely blind to race? I bet you can't honestly say you are.

Modifié par ultimatekotorfan, 15 février 2012 - 04:22 .

[Ryzaki]

Nope.

Shep can only paragonize her if he is flirty or romancing her (shutting her romance down early stops you from being able to paragonize her).

[ultimatekotorfan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Nope.

Shep can only paragonize her if he is flirty or romancing her (shutting her romance down early stops you from being able to paragonize her).

Hm. It appears I have made a slight mistake. Better fix that before it gets stomped over.

[DPSSOC]

Off Topic

Brownfinger wrote...
I don't hate her. People try and defend Ashley because of the emotional attachment they have towards her, but what I say is devoid of all emotion. It simply is.

Ah I needed a good laugh today.  Nothing any mentally healthy person says or does is devoid of emotion, ever.  I know Spock is awesome but you are not a Vulcan and never will be.

Brownfinger wrote...
She's a racist. She expresses her dislike of the council races, she speaks of humanity needing to rely on themselves, she didn't like the idea of Wrex and Garrus poking around the ship's vital systems.

 
Yes and no.  The term racism implies hatred, Ash simply doesn't trust them.  The actual word your looking for is xenophobe.  Terminology aside however her concerns are well placed; the Council has shown in the past that they won't hesitate to throw an entire species to the wolves for their own benefit or to protect their own interests, so humanity needs to be able to stand on its own because they can't rely on the aliens always (or ever) being there when they need them.  As for Wrex and Garrus the concern may be misplaced (we know they can be trusted), but it's not just a knee jerk, "their aliens," remark.  You'll notice she never made any mention of Tali.  They are aliens who's races have a history of violence and warfare, one with whom the Alliance has no formal relationship (Krogan) and another with whom there is still hostility over the war (Turians) on both sides.  She may be wrong in not trusting Garrus or Wrex but she has very good reasons for not trusting the species they represent.

Brownfinger wrote...
I don't know why the flames of this issue are constantly burning here. There are people stating fact with mountains of evidence, and there are people who stick their fingers in their ears and go "LA LALA  LALALAL LA LA" out of blind devotion.

 
Well blind devotion and the writers saying flat out that Ash isn't a racist.

Brownfinger wrote...

I know I wouldn't want foreign nationals poking around some of my country's most sensitive military equipment.

Really? Was America not once at war with Great Britain? Certainly is a lot of military cooperation there, as well as with allies across the world.

 
You do realize the ridiculousness of your claim I hope?  America and Britain haven't gone to war since 1812 and military cooperation didn't come about until the 1st World War.  Even with the level of cooperation we have today both countries do keep secrets from one another.

Brownfinger wrote...
In the context of Mass Effect, if you can live in the same general spaces in the Galaxy (Citadel, for one, but they're everywhere), then I'm fairly certain that the times of militant racial hostility are long past.

 
Yes there is absolutely no racial hostility between the humans and Turians at all, the First Contact War was ages ago it's not like there are people still alive who fought in it and carry that hostility with them [cough]Saren[cough].

On Topic
I go with Ash because of the following well thought out and completely emotionless reasons
1) I don't like the colour blue
2) Liara's infatuation with Shepard is hero worship and it's not healthy (IMO).
3) I find the whole mind meld thing creepy, it's deeply invasive and really everytime the game forces me to have one of the Space Smurfs twiddle around in my head I feel slightly violated.
4) Based on the portrayal of the characters Shep and Liara have absolutely nothing in common; so aside from sex the relationship would consist of...what exactly?

Thus concludes my well thought out and completely unbiased assessment /not serious

Modifié par DPSSOC, 15 février 2012 - 04:39 .

[Han Shot First]

Let me address some of the character myths that keep being repeated in this thread...


Ashley is racist: This is mostly based on Ashley's statement on the Citadel that she 'can't tell the aliens from the animals.' Taken at face value this would sound like a racist statement, but that line was intended to be said only in reference to the keepers, who are little more than animals. It is a bug that Ashley will utter the line when it isn't being clear that she is speaking about the keepers. Even so, you can't judge a character based on a single line of dialogue. You have to judge them on their dialogue and actions throughout the entire story. And in that, Ashley is clearly not a racist. In an elevator conversation with Tali, Ashley wil telll her that she hopes that Tali's contibution will help do away with the prejudice Quarians often face. If you bring Ashley along with you to meet the Terra Firma party, she makes it clear that she thinks their racist views make them an embarrasment to humanity.


Liara is obsessed: This is based on the fact that Liara set out to retrieve Shepard's corpse, and eventually turned it over to the Lazarus Project. The problem with those who accuse Liara of being obsessed because of that fact, is that they are exaggerating both what went on between ME1 and ME2 and the character's motives. Liara didn't originally set out to bring Shepard back from the dead. She set out to retrieve his body so that he could have a decent burial. The idea for bringing him back came later, and from Cerberus.

[Darc_Requiem]

The one that Bioware isn't trying to force feed me at every opportunity.

[FreezaSama]

I think I'm going to go with Ashley first. A few months back I completed my perfect playthrough of the first two games with an Ashley romance. I already had a similar save with a Liara romance, but seeing as I have yet to play a femshep, I'll save the Liara romance for when I play through the whole trilogy as femshep. Then she and Liara can be space lesbians! Yesssssss.

Modifié par FreezaSama, 15 février 2012 - 04:57 .

[ultimatekotorfan]

Han Shot First wrote...

Let me address some of the character myths that keep being repeated in this thread...


Ashley is racist: This is mostly based on Ashley's statement on the Citadel that she 'can't tell the aliens from the animals.' Taken at face value this would sound like a racist statement, but that line was intended to be said only in reference to the keepers, who are little more than animals. It is a bug that Ashley will utter the line when it isn't being clear that she is speaking about the keepers. Even so, you can't judge a character based on a single line of dialogue. You have to judge them on their dialogue and actions throughout the entire story. And in that, Ashley is clearly not a racist. In an elevator conversation with Tali, Ashley wil telll her that she hopes that Tali's contibution will help do away with the prejudice Quarians often face. If you bring Ashley along with you to meet the Terra Firma party, she makes it clear that she thinks their racist views make them an embarrasment to humanity.


Liara is obsessed: This is based on the fact that Liara set out to retrieve Shepard's corpse, and eventually turned it over to the Lazarus Project. The problem with those who accuse Liara of being obsessed because of that fact, is that they are exaggerating both what went on between ME1 and ME2 and the character's motives. Liara didn't originally set out to bring Shepard back from the dead. She set out to retrieve his body so that he could have a decent burial. The idea for bringing him back came later, and from Cerberus.

I bow down before you, and bask in your glorious common sense.

[Fooxie]

I like Ashley better. Liara's cute and really kind of adorable, but I'll always pick the chick who's strong, confident, and can really kick some tail from the get-go.

[BluSoldier]

 I chose Ashley becuase I am playing shepard making desisions I would make in real life.  That ebing said, the idea of dating a non-human scares me a little bit.  Humans did not evolve to procreate with other species.  I'll do what we we have evelved to do, thank you very much, but you are entitled to your oppinion.  

Modifié par BluSoldier, 16 février 2012 - 12:59 .

[Thalorin1919]

Ashley, easily.

She has an interesting background, shows devotion to the ones she loves, is honest with her words and beliefs, and her flaws and positives are natural in any realistic character. The relationship that blossoms between Shepard and her is believable.

Liara bored me. Also, her quick obsession with Shepard bothered me. When I think of her, I can't really define her as anything but the 'Prothean Scientist' who later became the Shadow Broker as to make her more interesting. I just felt the relationship between Shepard and her is unnatural.

Ashley feels more like a real person to me than Liara.

Also, to the people who call Ashley a 'racist' - you clearly haven't used her in your squad that much and you don't know her. I don't find it odd that humans would have some sort of distrust to other alien races - are you saying you wouldn't? I find that hardly unlikely. Also, when Shepard encounters Terra Firma on ME1 - the racist/extremist political party that your guys misled view of Ashley would fit - Ashley bashes them to the point for being ignorant until Shepard has to tell them to stop.