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Liara or Ashley? Which relationship is more compelling?


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#151
Celtic Latino

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MegaBadExample wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

There are a number of relationships that are superior to that of Williams. Liara does go in search of Shepard's body, but she doesn't collect it to revive you. She does it so that you can get a funeral. When she hands Shep's carcass over to Cerberus they tell her that they are going to attempt to restore him. She reluctantly agrees and we see the end result.
 
But Liara isn't the only one who believes in Shepard. Tali comes from a people who experienced violence from Cerberus, Quarians died and even on Freedom's Progress, Cerberus wants to continue treating the Quarians as property rather than as people. Yet, she stands by Shepard.
 
Miranda needs Cerberus to protect both herself and her sister from her estranged father. She stands by Shepard knowing first hand how dangerous it is to defy TIM and places both herself and her sister at risk to stand by Shepard.
 
Ashley? In less than three and one half minutes of not seeing you for more than two years and with Shepard having saved her life for the third time, she abandons you on Horizon as a fraud and a traitor. I think that her record speaks for itself.
 
Therefore, I believe that Liara, Tali, and Miranda are all superior relationships when compared to that of Ashley.


Ashley turned her back to the Alliance by following Shepard to Ilos. She had so much to lose by doing that. Sure the others followed too, but Ashley was practically throwing away everything her, and family had worked for by going along with it.

So what? If Ashley walked away on Horizon. At the time, she was confused, emotional, and didn't understand the situation, so she did the easiest thing - lash out, then sent an apology later. Some people just expect Ashley to fall in line like a good little soldier, when a dead man magically shows up in front of her after two years, wearing the wrong colours.

Shepard can ask her to join him, but she rejects. And you know, what? Shepard shouldn't ask anything of Ashley because so far, she's never asked him for anything. All the other romances have. Liara made you do her dirty work, and so did every other squad mate in ME2. You had to do work/tasks/favours for their affection.

Personally, I like the Ashley romance, because Ashley challenges Shepard. She's stubborn, and does her own thing. And I can't see my Shepard liking a woman who’s simple putty in his hands. Now, I’d like to say, I've got nothing against Liara. She's awesome and is my second favourite squad mate. And you know, you can pick whoever you want to romance. It's your decision. All the romances are somewhat good in their own right.



First I'd like to say both arguments are so well said! ;)

Personally I like Liara's story arc simply because yeah, she's a blue alien. The idea of an all-female race of mystical blue space mages versus your run of the mill futuristic girl soldier is not a hard choice in my book.

Although my main Shepard is a heterosexual female (thus she likes Jacob and Kaidan MUCH better), for other Sheps Liara was one of my top picks. I like the nice girl scientist she was in ME1. I really didn't care much for the direction she was taken in ME2, specifically the Shadow Broker (but this thread isn't about complaining), however I want to see if a loyal Shep really will marry her and have little blue children. Oh how it will bring the writer in me out of its true! Plus Liara definitely has a dark side and I want to see how that plays out with an unloyal Shep in ME3. 

Ashley's romance arc is okay if not standard. But she never compelled me as a character. She was a family woman and had a good heart. But in only three of my eight playthroughs did I even want to keep her alive on Virmire, two did I even pursue a romance. One so I can have a catfight between her and Miranda and the other just to see a loyal Shep arc for ME3. Other than that she just bores me. Miranda and Jack are so much more compelling and interesting to me. I'd even take Kasumi as an LI over Ashley. Miranda's a genetically engineered Cerberus officer while Jack is a convict and one of ME's most compelling characters (to me at least). Ashley is just a simple soldier. She gets the glory of Virmire for my canon run because she doesn't interest me any further than that. 

 

#152
nocbl2

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If you do the side missions in ME 1, Liara's actually makes sense. If not, it actually seems a little wierd, since, you know, they met two weeks ago and then hopped in the sack...

#153
SiG0d

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Ashley by a long shot. In my original playthrough I chose Liara and found her a bit dull..i dont know why, because the whole mind sex thing seems kinda cool.

Not to mention, for some reason, Ashley reminded me of someone i used to have a crush on..but there we go.

#154
CptData

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nocbl2 wrote...

If you do the side missions in ME 1,
Liara's actually makes sense. If not, it actually seems a little wierd,
since, you know, they met two weeks ago and then hopped in the
sack...

If you pick Liara up right after you left the Citadel, it also makes sense without side missions.
But if you ignore Therum until post-Virmire, then it's really "two weeks and snu-snu". [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/angel.png[/smilie]



SiG0d wrote...

Ashley by a long shot. In my original playthrough I chose Liara and found her a bit dull..i dont know why, because the whole mind sex thing seems kinda cool.

Not to mention, for some reason, Ashley reminded me of someone i used to have a crush on..but there we go.

Somehow Ash stands pretty much for the woman I always wanted to date but I never had the quad to ask her ^^

#155
Hel173

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Trust is probably the most important thing in a relationship. No matter how far into the relationship you are, you need to trust yor partner, or it's not going to work.

That's why I find the character who doesn't call Shepard a traitor much more compelling.

#156
CptData

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Hel173 wrote...

Trust is probably the most important thing in a relationship. No matter how far into the relationship you are, you need to trust yor partner, or it's not going to work.

That's why I find the character who doesn't call Shepard a traitor much more compelling.


Trust is something like respect: it's not given freely - you have to earn it. And you can lose it, if you play a foul game.^_^

#157
DPSSOC

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Hel173 wrote...

Trust is probably the most important thing in a relationship. No matter how far into the relationship you are, you need to trust yor partner, or it's not going to work.

That's why I find the character who doesn't call Shepard a traitor much more compelling.


Well at least she's being honest with you, that's something.

Again however Shepard is a traitor, by almost any definition.  It may not be their choice but every Shepard is an Alliance soldier working alongside a known enemy.  Were this an undercover op (which was kinda suggested in the early days of ME2) or if the Alliance and Cerberus had called a temporary truce in order to deal with the disappearing colonies things would be different, but as it stands Shepard is a traitor to the Alliance and the Council (that treason comment wasn't just thrown in their for kicks).  Whatever Shepard's reasons it doesn't change the facts.

Again, again she does apologize for that if you romanced her, she was shocked at seeing you and unable to deal with so many emotions at once she latched on to the one that's easiest to express, betrayal.  So yeah she cslled you a traitor but she's big enough to recognize and admit that she did wrong, which is more than you can say for Liara.

#158
Hel173

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DPSSOC wrote...

Hel173 wrote...

Trust is probably the most important thing in a relationship. No matter how far into the relationship you are, you need to trust yor partner, or it's not going to work.

That's why I find the character who doesn't call Shepard a traitor much more compelling.


Well at least she's being honest with you, that's something.

Again however Shepard is a traitor, by almost any definition.  It may not be their choice but every Shepard is an Alliance soldier working alongside a known enemy.  Were this an undercover op (which was kinda suggested in the early days of ME2) or if the Alliance and Cerberus had called a temporary truce in order to deal with the disappearing colonies things would be different, but as it stands Shepard is a traitor to the Alliance and the Council (that treason comment wasn't just thrown in their for kicks).  Whatever Shepard's reasons it doesn't change the facts.

Again, again she does apologize for that if you romanced her, she was shocked at seeing you and unable to deal with so many emotions at once she latched on to the one that's easiest to express, betrayal.  So yeah she cslled you a traitor but she's big enough to recognize and admit that she did wrong, which is more than you can say for Liara.


I'm certainly not a big fan of Garrus and Tali, but they had the same information (and Shepard didn't save a whole colony in front of their eyes). They trust Shepard. Liara, Joker, Chakwas, Wrex and Hackett trust Shepard too. Even the Council reinstated my Shepard as a Spectre - knowing fully well she worked with cerberus. This means Shepard only answers to the council, and they don't see it as treason at the end of the meeting (or Shepard would have been arrested).

the email - too little, too late

#159
DPSSOC

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Hel173 wrote...
I'm certainly not a big fan of Garrus and Tali, but they had the same information (and Shepard didn't save a whole colony in front of their eyes). They trust Shepard. Liara, Joker, Chakwas, Wrex and Hackett trust Shepard too.

 
And it's a whole other topic but I really hated how this was handled.  I didn't need everybody to pull a Horizon but a bit of skepticism would have been nice.  There's only one character who should've accepted your return without question (imo).  However you're right the VS is the only person who questions Shepard's return and the only one who doesn't trust Shepard.  In their defence they're also one of the only ones who didn't run after Shepard's death.  Garrus went to Omega, Liara to Illium, Tali to the Migrant Fleet, Wrex to Tuchanka, and Joker to Cerberus.  None of them had to watch, front row centre, while Shepard's name was being dragged through the mud.  The only one who might have even been aware of it was Liara and she had the comfort of knowing you might be coming back.  So I can understand them not taking it very well.

Hel173 wrote...
Even the Council reinstated my Shepard as a Spectre - knowing fully well she worked with cerberus. This means Shepard only answers to the council, and they don't see it as treason at the end of the meeting (or Shepard would have been arrested).


Oh you mean your Spectre status that is contingent on you continuing to operate outside Council space where it's completely useless.  I've always been of the opinion that the Council attempts to appease you with Spectre status (cause they won't actually do anything big shock) because they don't want to waste the resources fighting you.  With a single ship and a motley crew you managed to beat the best of their agents and his army of Geth, it's not trust that stays the Council's hand it's fear.

Hel173 wrote...
the email - too little, too late


Fair enough.

#160
DimmockDude

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BlueMagitek wrote...

ThePuppetWithNoStrings wrote...

I've come to prefer Miranda, Jack & Tali by a long shot, but of Liara and Ashley - I'd probably choose Ash. I like her and her attitude (though unfortunately she never lives in any of my playthroughs - Kaidan is always the VS for me) and asari in general kind of creep me out now.


Really now?  I usually save whoever I sent with the Salarians; even if the bomb doesn't go off, if the anti air tower isn't down, the Normandy isn't coming; even if the bomb doesn't go off, the Council will send in a fleet to deal with it (as the Salarians requested).

It makes more sense for shepard to rescue whoever went with the salarians from a character point of view as long as you arent renegade because then shepard is saving as many people as possible which is what a real soldier would do...

#161
delivererofgrapes

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I'm still holding out for that party with them both that Ashley shot down. Prude. :P

#162
Collider

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Ashley for ME1. Liara for ME2/ME3.
Imo.
Actually, you should just decide for yourself.