132 réponses à ce sujet

[Drag0n-RD]

Bored Games wrote... 
What is there now? Elder Scrolls, Fallout, both of which are boring when it comes down to it

At the risk of sounding like an elitist I'm gonna have to stick up for the Elderscrolls series and Fallout 3 but on a different platform, the PC. TES series games have had a superb modding community since Morrowind, and some would even argue Daggerfall. 

I find it strange that you consider these games to be all time classics. Shenmue? please that sucked even on the Dreamcast. Even FF7 was a poor game I just don't see the appeal in this JRPG crap.

Give me Planescape Torment any day of the week.

Modifié par Drag0n-RD, 24 novembre 2009 - 10:59 .

[Sinfulvannila]

Planescape was just boring through and through. It made me want to read a book.



JRPGs are generally designed for teenagers, so maybe that's why you don't like them.

[NickiGraus]

Bored Games wrote...
It's been bleak if you're a PS3 owner.

Easy solved, get a PC instead 

[plasmatorture]

I loved FF7 when it first came out. I was like 10 or 11 at the time.

It's a game for people in the 12-14 year old crowd, but culturally people just are stuck in that mental age range - look at the success of Harry Potter and Twilight, for other examples.

DA is pretty stellar though. I liked the Witcher but I played that when it first came out and the five minute load times for every transition were so tiring... never got around to picking up the enhanced edition. Of course, my computer is relatively ancient (still runs DA and such somewhat passably! despite technically being under minimum requirements) , so I need to drop the $4-500 to get an up to date one.

Modifié par plasmatorture, 24 novembre 2009 - 11:10 .

[Drag0n-RD]

Sinfulvannila wrote...

Planescape was just boring through and through. It made me want to read a book.

JRPGs are generally designed for teenagers, so maybe that's why you don't like them.

I loved Planescape and hated books when PST came out I was 6. Though I'll admit once I could read to a decent standard I enjoyed the game far more. I just loved the way it was so well written and the fact that you didn't have to fight your way through every battle, but could if you wanted too. Plus Morte was awesome!

FF8 was the only console game I've ever really enjoyed.

So it's not as if I'm ancient in age here I'm only 21!

[LocoEnElCoco]

Shappy1010 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Might as well play my hand. Deus Ex is probably the single greatest overall RPG experience I've ever had. That game deeply affected me.

I agree with you there buddy. Although Baldur's Gate II comes second in my top 10 list of all time, up there with Planescape Torment and what not, Deus Ex is my number #1, it nailed the immersion of RPG within a total experience, it's not really about the stats and builds, heck it may not be the best RPG ever, but I think it's the best GAME ever, it's RPG elements are meant to serve the amazing story and overall experience, which imho has not been matched to this very day.  

I many ways I actually feel like FPS are more in touch with the essence of roleplaying, since you're experiencing from your own perspective, and doesn't have to constantly measure numbers and statistics. Defense, attack, restiance and similar values actually isn't very true to roleplaying, just like builds and skills. They're a left over from the paper-pen roleplaying games, but that doesn't mean it is the way to go with computers in regards to making the player feel like he's playing a role.

[Arachija]

Bored Games wrote...

What has happened to RPGs/adventure in the last few years?  I mean FF7-9, Ocarina of Time , Shenmue, KOTOR, all classics.  What is there now?  Elder Scrolls, Fallout, both of which are boring  when it comes down to it, and various well rated graphical showcases/set piece "games" (*cough*MGS4*cough*Uncharted*cough*).  

Good Idea - I love you<3

[spernus]

StuartMarshall wrote...

FF7 had characters and settings that players became emotionally attached to. This can make up for many shortcomings in games. But remember that FF7 was developed in 1996 so the developers had limitations that they wouldn't now and it still turned out to be a memorable game.

In general, Japanese RPGs are better at creating emotional attachments between the player and character. Western RPGs tend to have more openness and options but the characters often lack a certain something to attach us. The day when someone combines the best of both is perhaps the day RPGs move to the next level. Because while I loved DA:O and consider it one of the better RPGs of the decade, I still didn't get as attached to the characters as I did to Cloud, Aerith, Barret, etc., and no setting has remained in my mind like Midgar did.

What jrpg definitively have over wrpg is the artistic direction.You cannot argue this point,as the japanese create their own kind of monsters or fantasy world with various kind of inspiration.They have their own way of animating heroic attack (way over the top) or have their own vision of typical fantasy spells.This end up making the typical jrpg as being unique since we are as far removed from Tolkien/D&D fantasy as possible.Of course,the drawback is the teen angst or coming of age or even how juvenile most of them are.

[Shappy1010]

spernus wrote...
What jrpg definitively have over
wrpg is the artistic direction.You cannot argue this point,as the
japanese create their own kind of monsters or fantasy world with
various kind of inspiration.They have their own way of animating heroic
attack (way over the top) or have their own vision of typical fantasy
spells.This end up making the typical jrpg as being unique since we are
as far removed from Tolkien/D&D fantasy as possible.Of course,the
drawback is the teen angst or coming of age or even how juvenile most
of them are.

The downside? Get ready to fight walking houses and purple bunnies with machineguns.

darkwolf79 wrote...

The witcher was, in the more recent past, the only rpg with a story that really drew me in. The world was believable and, int its dirty, dark middle age feeling absolutely wonderful and enjoyable. In some ways it felt even better then the one in Dragonage. Why? Because it was down to earth, it didn't hold back and it did not try to be epic. At no point it felt like you were on your generic save the world quest. You were simply that witcher that happened to get drawn into that mess. Great. First game that made me buy the books which I also enjoyed very much. I can only recommend those, even though only some have been translated into english so far.
.

Could not agree more, the story is more about self discovery vs. save the world, simular to what Planescape Torment did. Although I love Dragon Age, it really doesn't bring anything new to the table. Some of the themes and scenes seem a bit stale, and the gameplay is simular to earlier D&D games (which makes it great but not original). The Witcher felt fresh, modern and old skool at the same time both in gameplay and story. And who suspected quality like that from an unknown new Polish developer? I think it's a masterpiece. Dragon Age, though great, feels somewhat like a fan pleaser at times.

Modifié par Shappy1010, 24 novembre 2009 - 01:33 .

[spernus]

Shappy1010 wrote...

Could not agree more, the story is more about self discovery vs. save the world, simular to what Planescape Torment did. Although I love Dragon Age, it really doesn't bring anything new to the table. Some of the themes and scenes seem a bit stale, and the gameplay is simular to earlier D&D games (which makes it great but not original). The Witcher felt fresh, modern and old skool at the same time both in gameplay and story. And who suspected quality like that from an unknown new Polish developer? I think it's a masterpiece. Dragon Age, though great, feels somewhat like a fan pleaser at times.

I do not think The Witcher was a masterpiece,but the world was definitively more inspired.

It's probably because the basic material was stronger aka the writer of the books is vastly more talented than any writers working for Bioware.

Let's all be realistic and understand that most videogame writers would be terrible outside of their comfort zone.It's obvious since you do not usually dream of being a videogame writer first and foremost and end up there if you cannot cut it in most venue(a lot of videogame writers studied in filmaking/script writing or tried write a potent movie script.I know this because I saw a couple of Ubisoft writers in interviews many time).The classic example is the Final Fantasy:spirit within movie which was incredibly mediocre.It was written by the same guy who wrote the stories to the earlier FF.

Modifié par spernus, 24 novembre 2009 - 01:42 .

[nisallik]

Eh, I'll agree FF7 was decent, but it wasn't that great. After playing FF7: Crisis Core, it made me like FF7 overall more... but made me hate Cloud more. What an emo whiny kid. ;p

[Shappy1010]

spernus wrote...

Shappy1010 wrote...

Could not agree more, the story is more about self discovery vs. save the world, simular to what Planescape Torment did. Although I love Dragon Age, it really doesn't bring anything new to the table. Some of the themes and scenes seem a bit stale, and the gameplay is simular to earlier D&D games (which makes it great but not original). The Witcher felt fresh, modern and old skool at the same time both in gameplay and story. And who suspected quality like that from an unknown new Polish developer? I think it's a masterpiece. Dragon Age, though great, feels somewhat like a fan pleaser at times.

I do not think The Witcher was a masterpiece,but the world was definitively more inspired.

It's probably because the basic material was stronger aka the writer of the books is vastly more talented than any writers working for Bioware.

Let's all be realistic and understand that most videogame writers would be terrible outside of their comfort zone.It's obvious since you do not usually dream of being a videogame writer first and foremost and end up there if you cannot cut it in most venue(a lot of videogame writers studied in filmaking/script writing or tried write a potent movie script.I know this because I saw a couple of Ubisoft writers in interviews many time).The classic example is the Final Fantasy:spirit within movie which was incredibly mediocre.It was written by the same guy who wrote the stories to the earlier FF.

I agree with that. Videogames still have a long way to go as a mature industry or artform. Although I can't help but feel it got sidetracked round about the millenium, Some of the best writing and dialog seem to come from older games such as Grim Fandango, Deus Ex, Planescape Torment, I think the market definetly moved to please a younger crowd at some point hence that is where the money was. The writing in Uncharted 2 wasn't half bad in a Hollywoodish popcorn kinda way, but seeing all the praise it's receiving it's saying more about lack of quality in  the industry then the game itself, which essentially is still mediocre compared to films and books.

Modifié par Shappy1010, 24 novembre 2009 - 02:53 .

[CarlSpackler]

Shappy1010 wrote...

spernus wrote...

Shappy1010 wrote...

Could not agree more, the story is more about self discovery vs. save the world, simular to what Planescape Torment did. Although I love Dragon Age, it really doesn't bring anything new to the table. Some of the themes and scenes seem a bit stale, and the gameplay is simular to earlier D&D games (which makes it great but not original). The Witcher felt fresh, modern and old skool at the same time both in gameplay and story. And who suspected quality like that from an unknown new Polish developer? I think it's a masterpiece. Dragon Age, though great, feels somewhat like a fan pleaser at times.

I do not think The Witcher was a masterpiece,but the world was definitively more inspired.

It's probably because the basic material was stronger aka the writer of the books is vastly more talented than any writers working for Bioware.

Let's all be realistic and understand that most videogame writers would be terrible outside of their comfort zone.It's obvious since you do not usually dream of being a videogame writer first and foremost and end up there if you cannot cut it in most venue(a lot of videogame writers studied in filmaking/script writing or tried write a potent movie script.I know this because I saw a couple of Ubisoft writers in interviews many time).The classic example is the Final Fantasy:spirit within movie which was incredibly mediocre.It was written by the same guy who wrote the stories to the earlier FF.

I agree with that. Videogames still have a long way to go as a mature industry or artform. Although I can't help but feel it got sidetracked round about the millenium, Some of the best writing and dialog seem to come from older games such as Grim Fandango, Deus Ex, Planescape Torment, I think the market definetly moved to please a younger crowd at some point hence that is where the money was. The writing in Uncharted 2 wasn't half bad in a Hollywoodish popcorn kinda way, but seeing all the praise it's receiving it's saying more about lack of quality in  the industry then the game itself, which essentially is still mediocre compared to films and books.

  This is a good point.  Its funny in the whole video games and art debate, what most gamer apologists fail to concede is that games right now do not rise to a level worthy of great art.  That isn't to say that it cannot or will not.  Certainly i can gain as much enjoyment and emotional response from a well-written game as a film or book.  I also agree with the good Drs at Bioware who have stated that video games have the potential to transcend film and written fiction, they just aren't there yet.  I also find that no company currently developing comes close to giving me personally the emotional payoff that Bioware does.  The focus on story and NPC interaction is what I believe elicits my enjoyment.  Also you mention older games and their writing, I have a hard time deciding whether or not I am viewing older games through pure nolstalgia or if their writing honestly reached the level I ascribed to them.  My own personal favs being both Ultima 7 games, Robin Hood Conquests of the Longbow (talk about a story focused game with a lot of historical research done in support) and for atmospheric storytelling and pure fun Quest for Glory IV (heh after it was heavily patched, abysmal launch product).  Everyone has their favs from yesteryear, but you are right there does seem to be a current drop in quality writing in favour of quality production values.

  All back to DAO, there is nothing truly original about this game in terms of its setting and yet I haven't been this engrossed in years.  Orginality is a fine thing, and neccessary at times but bravo Bioware on crafting such an outstanding game.  Here's to hoping for a long franchise in Thedas with years of quality gaming in this world to come.  Thanks much.

[xYOSSARIANx]

I liked the wasteland, I enjoy exploring and looting, I admit it got kind of boring by the time I had explored 100% of the wasteland/downtown/subways/building+vault interiors, but I put that down to the fact I hit top level after 15 hours but played the game for 160 hours. With no new skills and VATS combat giving me headshot after headshot it was far too easy.



I think Bethesda do open world very well but are weak on quests, voice and story (since Morrowind anyway), whereas Bioware do fantastic stories and voice but are weaker for creating world content, items and loot.



Bioware does the best stories, Bethesda does the best worlds. We need them to merge.

[salbine]

Bored Games wrote...

I've had more fun playing a few hours of the origin stories in DAO than  the entire play time of Fallout 3, and it's only the beginning.  Take note Bethesda, running around an empty world with nothing of significance to do does not make a game.

No, Bethesda, don't take note. Some of us prefer sandbox style games with tons of exploration. Some of us prefer cinematic games like DA:O. Most of us like both. So please keep making your type of game, and BioWare, please keep making yours. That is all.

[ScotGaymer]

Does anyone not think its totally amazing that pretty much ALL the modern REALLY REALLY good RPGs come from Bioware?



I mean you had NWN that started it all, then KotOR came and blew everyone away, then they did Jade Empire which was no less than amazing, the Mass Effect which the storyline gave me palpatations by the end with, and now Finally Dragon Age Origin which is no less than effing epic awesomeness.

And soon Mass Effect 2. My god I think I might die from how amazing Bioware are.



Outside of Bioware RPGs i really like Fable 1 and 2. Bloody brilliant games there from Lionhead.

I have to say i didnt like Deus or Deus Ex - couldnt get into them.



About the people who hate Oblivion. I can understand why you might dislike it but you cant say it doesnt have a storyline or plot. It does.

Morrowind combined a good plot with amazing openness which was great. The Oblivion had the amazing openness combined with great graphics and really astounding modding potential. The story for Oblivion wasnt as good as the story for Morrowind (or any Bioware RPG) but it was a good story, what kinda brought the story down was the whole "OMG Big Bad Evil OtherWorldly Demon/Monster/Creature/God/Thing threatens ALL Tamriel! Again!" thing that kept happening; for example Mannimarco with the Mages Guild, Umaril with Knights of the Nine, Dagon with the MQ etc... They just kept rehashing that cliche. The only time you had a baddie that wasnt "other worldly" or undead was when it was one of the beastfolk, and even then they were usually just "misguided" as apposed to evil.



The we came to Fallout 3; which you COULD say may as well just have no plot in it at all. Because its the worst writing, plot, and storyline ive seen in a game since "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!"

And if thats a sign of where Bethesda is going with their games? All flash and no substance? Then I probably will never buy an other Bethesda game. Dont get me wrong the gameplay in F3 is brilliant, but it doesnt mean anything when theres nothing really for you to play except a few semi exciting side quests, some boring DLCs, and user created content.



If Bethesda took a leaf from bioware and spent a little less money on big budget actors who have no class or self respect (Ie Liam Neeson) to play minor characters in their games and more money on professional writers they really good make TES 5 the Ultimate RPG!

I really believe that.



As for FF7, people obsess over it because it was pretty much the last really good (not decent but really good) Final Fantasy, that combined a brilllant original storyline, fun unique characters, and solid gameplay.

FF8 was alright. The whole OMG Sorceress from the Past/Present/Future thing was a bit weird. And the game play (having to "draw" magical spells from your enemies?) was a bit weird too. But it was good they tried to push the envelop a bit.

FF9 was utter bollocks. Apart from the hugely camp and flamboyant baddie in the form of Kuja (anyone else thing Lady Gaga looked like him in the Paparazzi video?) nothing set it apart from earlier Final Fantasies. It was essentially Final Fantasy 4 and 6, with liberal dozes of 5 and 7 sprinkled in.

Final Fantasy 10 was brilliant. Not as compelling or immersive as FF7 because the story was a bit more cliche'd than FF7s. Game play was good (thought the sphere grid system was irritating as heck lol) as well.

FF11 we didnt get here. FF 10-2 ive not really played. And FF12 was really difficult to get into.

[Bored Games]

As for FF7, people obsess over it because it was pretty much the last really good (not decent but really good) Final Fantasy, that combined a brilllant original storyline, fun unique characters, and solid gameplay.
FF8 was alright. The whole OMG Sorceress from the Past/Present/Future thing was a bit weird. And the game play (having to "draw" magical spells from your enemies?) was a bit weird too. But it was good they tried to push the envelop a bit.
FF9 was utter bollocks. Apart from the hugely camp and flamboyant baddie in the form of Kuja (anyone else thing Lady Gaga looked like him in the Paparazzi video?) nothing set it apart from earlier Final Fantasies. It was essentially Final Fantasy 4 and 6, with liberal dozes of 5 and 7 sprinkled in.
Final Fantasy 10 was brilliant. Not as compelling or immersive as FF7 because the story was a bit more cliche'd than FF7s. Game play was good (thought the sphere grid system was irritating as heck lol) as well.
FF11 we didnt get here. FF 10-2 ive not really played. And FF12 was really difficult to get into.

Shameless bump on this thread, but I have to disagree with you here... 


 FF9 was a brilliant summation of the series.  Both 8 and 9 were more laid back story wise, less obviously briliant then their predecessor. yet still highly memorable.  As another posted said, Square had a way of creating emotional attachment to the "world", even when the gameplay or story failed to break new ground. 

[Kourd]

Factors that go into what makes a great RPG.

You.

How young where you?

How much RPG experience did you have before you played given game?

What interests did you have at the time?

No one's gonna agree on anything here because there's a million factors that go into what type of game you like at a given time. The more RPG's you play, the more of certain aspects you look for, and the more critical you become.

Just tell us what you love, but don't go saying any other game is crap.. unless it really didn't sell well, and was obviously crap. None of the ones mentioned so far where truly bad, the appealed to at least some large group.

I remember playing one of the first true sandbox RPG's from WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY back.. it was called Alternate Reality: The City on my Atari 400. I freaking LOVED that game. Instead of having sequels each next release added another chunk of the world to the overall game, just building an ever growing single game. They eventually released Alternate Reality: The Dungeon just before the company went under though, but you got to walk around and do whatever you want, build whatever kind of character you wanted just like any Elder Scroll game. The limit was you could only turn at 90 degree angles, but it was the first 1'st person RPG that scrolled smoothly when you walked forward or backwards. It did get ported to other systems, but all the ports where shoddy compared to the Atari one.

Modifié par Drayth, 24 novembre 2009 - 11:05 .

[Red-Cell]

Anyone find it interesting that CD Projekt Red created a superior RPG than Bioware did using their own technology?



I find hilarious, although I really loved NWN and all three expansions, The Witcher using the same engine blew them all out of the water.

[Kourd]

Check out...

http://en.wikipedia....er_(video_game)



Under "Game Engine" it's pretty interesting how much of an overhaul they gave it.

[Sakiradesu]

All the games mentioned were probably great for their generation.

Those who fell in love with FF7 are in their early to late 20s. FF7 was the game of your childhood, and you will always remember it as such. It was one of the games that created a lot of the RPG players today. There were few RPGs before FF7 that appealed to non-RPG players. Chrono Trigger was one of them (if I don't put this, people will kill me). And I do believe FF7 is overrated. I absolutely love it. It is my favorite childhood game, but you have to admit the FF7 craze could be toned down a bit.

As for those who find FF7 decent or worse, they're probably a slightly older crowd (not disgustingly older, just older and more mature with refined tastes) who experienced roleplaying as it was intended to be in the west. D&D, Warhammer, table top games, and the like. You created your character and lived as your character.

There are exceptions, of course. People who tried both. But we tend to fall in love with our respective favorites due partly to the nostalgia of our childhood.

In a few years, none of these games will be known to the new generation of RPGer. lol

Modifié par Sakiradesu, 24 novembre 2009 - 11:00 .