132 réponses à ce sujet

[Shappy1010]

Sinfulvannila wrote...

Well, you're free to have your own opinion. I play pretty much every RPG I can get my hand on, western or japanese and IMO, WRPGs are far more cliched than JRPGs. I mean, come on, the most popular western sub-genre is the diablo-CLONE. Honestly I don't really care, cliches are basically literary archetypes that fill every part of pop culture. And the laughing scene looks funny when taken out of context, but they are suppose to be sounding silly. It is fake laughter after all.  I got one better for you, pay attention to 1:30-1:45.

P.S. Play Chrono Trigger. It is THAT good...

Well that scene in Morrowind it's more due to programming, also it's story is told more through books and such then the actual game, which I rate very highly because of the incredible freedom and admosphere, not it's story.
Maybe I'll give Chrono Trigger it a shot, I believe it was playable on PSP or Wii, I might look that up since I finished DAO.

And I fully agree wRPGs have equal clichés "a dark evil treathening to destroy us" etc. -w/ exceptions of course (Planescape Torment, The Witcher, Deus Ex). The best example in gaming storytelling imho is neither in wRPGs or jRPGs, the old Lucasarts games with their masterpiece Grim Fandango on top, it has the best story ever told on a digital platform imho.

Modifié par Shappy1010, 01 décembre 2009 - 12:02 .

[Sinfulvannila]

I was specifically referring to, "The letter that procedes you mentioned you were born under a certain sign, now which sign was that?" Why would it mention that and not specify which? Isn't everyone born under a certain sign?



But yeah, adventure games definitley tend to have the best writing.

[KoRnAh]

Final Fantasy games are totally overrated, there are better things to play.

[SleeplessInSigil]

Bored Games wrote...

I've had more fun playing a few hours of the origin stories in DAO than  the entire play time of Fallout 3, and it's only the beginning.

Funny, I felt the other way around, even though I love DA:O as well.

Dragon Age: Origins vs. Fallout 3, in terms of atmosphere

Dragon Age: Origins vs. Fallout 3, in terms of music



and some copy-paste from a DA:O thread on the FO3 boards:



I love Dragon Age, and finished it before taking up Fallout 3, but yes, it is outdated, and no; this is nowhere near being just about the graphics.

Here's some of the aspects in which FO3 absolutely decimates DA:
In DA,

• NPCs are little more than static signposts nailed into the ground, waiting to be read some mandatory dialog off from.
• you can't navigate over even the most minute changes in elevation, unless there's a "stairs" path pre-woven into the environment, let alone wade into water.
• you can't loot whatever equipment your enemies were using.
• EXTREMELY stiff and heavily-scripted combat encounters that you cannot avoid or escape, becoming a chore. You can't even bother positioning your party beforehand because any dialog with NPCs magically snaps the entire party back around the main character.
• Combat generally involves little more than clicking once and sitting back to watch while the AI does its thing, as you only need to keep an eye on the HP/Mana/Stamina gauges and guzzle a poultice or potion every once a while. Disappointingly, the very final encounter requires no different tactics.
• No incentive to strive for efficiency in battles because all you need to do is wait a couple seconds to get fully recharged afterwards, whereas in FO3 you have to be careful about Ammo, Addiction, Rads and repair.
• An over-simplified inventory system, and yet some people chastise FO3 for being simplistic.
• An over-abundance of dummy furniture that you can't interact with; chests etc. whereas in FO3 you can open every single container, and actually sit on chairs and lie in beds.
• Theft, successful or failed, being without consequences, beyond some more scripted encounters in Denerim.
• Ridiculously-smaller and less-detailed areas that require much longer load-times but in FO3 you can walk from one end of the Wasteland to the other without a single hiccup, on the same system.
• Fallout 3 does a way more effective job of bringing the Wasteland "home" to you than Dragon Age does of letting you experience Thedas, unless you keep reading the Codex every few steps.

and more.

In all honest objectivity: Take away the party members and the Codex, and what have you got left in DA? (I expect someone parrot-replying with "Take away XYZ from FO3.." but that list of stuff will be a lot larger)



NPCs in FO3,

• have their own schedules, and are doing different stuff depending on the time of day.
• can seamlessly roam the Wasteland on their own, and you can follow them.
• will comment on whatever you're looking at: "Yes, that's locked, and yes; I can see you eyeing it."
• will refer to the fact that you've been going around asking other NPCs the same things, when you bring it up with them.
• will mention other NPCs, including their absence. i.e. after Simms or Moriarty have died, they'll be referred to in the past tense.
• will mention the events you've taken part it.
• will behave differently depending on how Good or Evil you've been.

amongst other things.



Oh and

KoRnAh wrote...

Final Fantasy games are totally overrated, there are better things to play.

Opinions like these are totally overrated, there are better things to say.

<_<

Shappy1010 wrote...

The best example in gaming storytelling imho is neither in wRPGs or jRPGs, the old Lucasarts games with their masterpiece Grim Fandango on top, it has the best story ever told on a digital platform imho.

You. Win. This. Thread. With the mere mention of ol' manly Manny Calavera.

Modifié par SleeplessInSigil, 16 février 2010 - 05:29 .

[Seraosha]

Ahh, Necromancy. Suppose I'll take the chance to disagree with the OP anyway. Morrowind and Oblivion are masterworks. Moving from them to DA:O is a horrifying experience. Playing DA is like being in a cage in contrast to Oblivion. I prefer having freedom to a game where the illusion of choice is always offered to you, but never given.

[Funkcase]

Each to there own, i personally loved Fallout 3 and im a big fan of Fallout 1 and 2 also. I havent got round to Dragon age: origins yet, having way to much fun on ME2.

[mattp420]

Sinfulvannila wrote...

I think it's more that the Japanese culture is so alien. That's what happens when a culture develops on an island. Your assertion that Japanese literary arts are less mature is very inacurate, Japanese poems predate European poems(due to the Dark Ages) and the first novel, Tale of Genji, was written in Japan. Another thing is that Japanese storytelling, at least in video games, is much different from Western storytelling. Western storytelling focuses more on actions than anything else while Japanese storytelling focuses more on themes, the subtlety of which is usually lost in translation. 

In my opinion, at it's peak Japanese storytelling in RPGs(DQ5, the Mother series, Xenogears for the most part, the Chrono games and Radical Dreamers, Vagrant Story Final Fantasy 6, 7 and Tactics) was far more deep and mature than the storytelling in most Western RPGs. Other than a couple sterling examples(Ultima 4, Planescape: Torment), Western RPGs stories have offer very little. Usually the best part of the story isn't even something that happens in the game, rather it is generally the party members backstory.

I completely agree with you, but if you look at all the forums here it would seem many equate maturity with sex.

[xODD7BALLx]

Bored Games wrote...

I've had more fun playing a few hours of the origin stories in DAO than  the entire play time of Fallout 3, and it's only the beginning.  Take note Bethesda, running around an empty world with nothing of significance to do does not make a game.

What has happened to RPGs/adventure in the last few years?  I mean FF7-9, Ocarina of Time , Shenmue, KOTOR, all classics.  What is there now?  Elder Scrolls, Fallout, both of which are boring  when it comes down to it, and various well rated graphical showcases/set piece "games" (*cough*MGS4*cough*Uncharted*cough*).  

It's been bleak if you're a PS3 owner.

I could have sworn it stuck to the whole "nuclear holocaust" post apocalyptic theme, nuclear blasts and fallout generally kill and destroy most anything in on a monumental scale. If you look at a map of not just the DC Area but the outside regions of FO3, there is actually tons of things spread out in the wastes, other than "side quests" FO3 had much more to offer than FO1 and FO2 as far as wandering the wastes is concerned. As with Oblivion and FO3, the environments have life to them, packs of ________ or other NPCs running into eachother, random firefights/battles, maybe you just dont like exploration, you can walk miles and miles in real life in a forest and not see more than traces of animal life so not sure they are way off base as far as exploration goes.

I really enjoyed DA:O for what it was, but other than random travel encounters, which are finite, there is no way to compare it to ACTUALLY exploring vast areas where nearly anything can happen.

Modifié par Operative84, 16 février 2010 - 10:11 .