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[D Amiri]

 I've been tweaking my builds in the demo in order to test what works and min/max cooldown reductions.  In the process I've run into a bug that causes class passives to increase cooldowns by 25%.  Here are the cooldowns for Vanguard with no points in Assault Mastery ever(important):

Pull      - 8 > 7 > 6 secs
Charge- 20 > 17.5
SW      - 16 > 14 > 12

If you put 1 point into passive and remove it.  All cool downs receive a 25% increase.  Here are the new cooldowns:

Pull      - 10 > 9 > 8
Charge- 25 > 22.5 (WTH!!!)
SW      - 20 > 18 > 14.8

Assualt Mastery level I

Pull      - 9.4 > 8.4 > 6
Charge- 23.5 > 21
SW      - 18.8 > 16.8 > 13.6

Assualt Mastery II

Pull      - 8.6 > 7.6 > 5.2
Charge- 21.5 > 19
SW      - 17.2 > 15.2 > 12

AM V (15 pionts)

Pull       - 7.2 > 6.2 > 3.81
Charge - 18 > 15.5
SW       - 14.4 > 12.4 > 9.2


So for Vanguard you have to put 15 points into the passive before you get cooldowns lower than the ones you start with.  I tested with Infiltrator and the results are the same.  The reason CD's seem so crazy long isn't just the weapon load outsit's the broken passives also.  To have the best cooldowns without dumping a ton of points into your passive to get the third weight upgrade never put any points into your passive.  Adding one point, even if you remove it add 25% to all cooldowns.  I don't know if this effects the damage and force upgrades from the passives.

[Manveer Heir]

Hey all, I appreciate your bringing this up. I realize this isn't an optimal bug to have in the demo, but thankfully it is only in the demo. This only occurs if you put 1 point into the passive and then undo that choice (not if you just upgrade normally and don't undo right after putting the point in). I just checked alongside the QA guys on this bug and we confirmed it works fine in the retail version. In fact, I remember this bug and looking into it vaguely.

The demo is not final game code. We fix bugs until the last second and unfortunately that means lots of bugs end up in demos that aren't in the final game. That's pretty much the only way for us to get you guys a demo out BEFORE the game is out (since demo also has to go through Microsoft/Sony certification).

As for the long recharge time for Charge, this is all due to the weight capacity. There is a weight capacity dependent on how many weapons you are holding. If you hold too many, the game tells you your global power recharge speed is going to be negatively affected (conversely, if you are holding very few weapons your recharge speed increases dramatically). Charge at it's base level is a 10 second recharge power and can be sped up significantly from that (down to under 3 seconds).

So all is well, it isn't a bug in the final version, just try to avoid undoing powers from the passive in the demo to avoid this bug (and don't go so far over your weight limit to make Charge and other powers recharge faster).

Thanks!
@manveerheir

Modifié par Manveer Heir, 13 février 2012 - 09:46 .

[Manveer Heir]

JeffZero wrote...

PS
The default BSN krogan avatar seems to fit you pretty well based upon some of the funny/rambunctious tweets of yours I've seen on twitter.

Yeah, you should see it when I headbutt my co-workers. No wonder no one likes me D:

@manveerheir

[Manveer Heir]

Power formulas work by modifying the base value at rank 1 not the current value. So a 50% increase in damage means take Current Damage + Rank 1 Damage * 0.5.

Power recharge formulas are even more crazy, and I won't go into the math, but basically a 100% increase in recharge speed for a 10 second cooldown power does not make it 5 seconds. It's close to 5 seconds, but not exactly. I promise you this is by design

@manveerheir

Modifié par Manveer Heir, 14 février 2012 - 05:19 .

[Manveer Heir]

Cloak is a special case since its recharge time is dependent on how long you cloaked for. Your recharge speed upgrades reduce that maximum, and the speed the power recharges will be faster (basically view it as a linear graph from 0 to max recharge speed and your recharge time will map somewhere on that dependent on how long you cloaked). So upgrading the recharge speed on cloak will mean that recharges are faster in all cases, but not necessarily the exact number you see on the bar.

I'm not sure if that answers your question...

[Manveer Heir]

I honestly do not remember and I'm not at work right now. Time to go to bed Been a long day but thanks so much for playing the demo and I'm glad you all care enough to ask these sorts of questions.

[Manveer Heir]

3 seconds in the minimum cloak recharge time. Max is whatever you see on the bar. Linearly interpolate on a line from 0 to max with how long you are in cloak to figure out how long the recharge will be. If it is less than 3 seconds, then make it 3 seconds. That should be your calculation. Hope it helps.

Modifié par Manveer Heir, 14 février 2012 - 04:00 .

[Manveer Heir]

Aurellia please give me an exact example of what you are seeing and I will do my best to explain the math

[Manveer Heir]

Heather: this is all do the weight capacity from weapons. Since the demo isn't letting you customize your weapon loadout you don't have any recourse in the demo unfortunately but this issue does not exist in the full game.

[Manveer Heir]

Elecbender wrote...

As long as we're asking questions about math here...

How is Nova's damage calculated? I know the amount of barrier determines the damage but is there some kind of formula used? This is even more confusing for the fourth evolution that expends 50% barrier but does 40% less damage.

Also in ME2 Heavy Charge added 100% of your base shields to your total shields. Is this still the case in ME3?

If you could answer these questions it would be most appreciated.

Nova's damage is your current barrier (biotic version of shields) divided by max barrier (to get a percentage). That percentage multiplied by the max damage (what you see on the bar in the stat menu). Using nova will use up ALL your barrier. The upgrade you are talking about makes it so instead of eating up all of your barrier, it will only use half, but the end result is you do less damage. Basically it's an upgrade for people who don't want to feel super exposed after using Nova. 

Charge restores 50% of your shields, 100% would have been overpowered. 

Nova uses all your shield, so one of my favorite combos is to Nova a guy to kill him, charge to the next guy, getting 50% of my shield back, hitting him, then Nova again to finish him off. Dangerous but powerful if you can learn to use it well.

Working on a longer answer about the math so I can explain how this all works to avoid more questions about the same thing.

@manveerheir 

Modifié par Manveer Heir, 14 février 2012 - 07:58 .

[Manveer Heir]

Minimum charge cooldown is hard coded and you can't change it

@manveerheir

Modifié par Manveer Heir, 14 février 2012 - 08:38 .

[Manveer Heir]

Linear proportion. So in your example 3/7 = 43%. Take the recharge speed listed, multiply by 43% and that's your value. If it is less than 3 seconds, then make it 3 seconds.

[Manveer Heir]

Power Stat Upgrades - Math Formula Explanation

There are three different types of formulas we use to calculate power bonuses. I will explain how each works mathematically. I can promise you we spent a lot of time making sure the numbers were correct and this is all working as intended, even if it doesn’t make perfect sense at first glance. I should also note that this is how things were done on ME2, but the difference is we didn’t expose the final numbers to the player in ME2. We are doing that in ME3 to allow the hardcore RPG player to maximize their potential and know what is happening.

Formula 1 – Normal Power Upgrades

The vast majority of powers data upgrades fall under this, such as damage, force, and impact radius. Most notably, power recharge speed (aka cooldown) does NOT fall under this formula.

New Value = Base Value at Rank 1 * (1.0 + Sum of all rank bonuses + Dynamic Bonuses)

Base Value at Rank 1 is simple. Whatever damage (or whatever is being upgraded) is at rank 1 of that power is the base value. This is what all the percentages are off of.

Sum of all the rank bonuses are the bonuses of every other rank that you have bought added all up. So if Rank 3 upgrades damage 10% and you bought Rank 4 evolve that upgrades damage 15% and at Rank 6 you bought the evolve that upgrades damage 25% then the sum of the rank bonuses are 50% (add all three numbers). You only add in rank bonuses for the stat you are upgrading that you have bought. Note, this value is expressed as a floating point number so 50% = 0.5. 100% = 1.0.

Dynamic Bonuses are from things like your passives and weight capacity. So you could have 100% bonus total by having a 70% bonus from weight capacity, 10% from wearing certain armor, and 20% from your passive power. Note, this value is expressed as a floating point number so 50% = 0.5. 100% = 1.0.

So why do we calculate it like this instead of just taking the current value and multiplying it by the upgrade amount (like 25% for example)? Balance is a big reason. If the upgrade modifies the current value, the upgrade is more useful for players who have a higher value from things like passives and all that. This means powers can quickly become overpowered or an upgrade is useless for some players and ridiculously powerful for others. This becomes hard to balance and manage. So all upgrades go off of the BASE value (and the base value is calculated before any passives, armor, weight capacity, etc stuff is accounted for).

Formula 2 – Recharge Speed Upgrades

Recharge speed (aka cooldown) use a formula called divide by bonus sum. The formula is as follows:

New Value = Base Value at Rank 1 * (1.0 / (1.0 + Sum of all rank bonuses + Dynamic Bonuses))

The definitions of the values are the same as above. So if recharge speed is 10 seconds at Rank 1, the sum of your rank bonuses is 50% and the dynamic bonuses total at 25%, using the formula above what you find is the value is 5.7. Only recharge speed is calculated using this formula. Also, it should be noted that Henchmen power recharge speeds are always double what Shepard’s recharge speed is (there may be one or two execptions, but those are close to double). This is to stop the henchmen from being overpowered.

Formula 3 – Hard Value Bonuses

This formula is used for stats that are expressed as percents. So, normally if you are upgrading something like Force, that is measured in Newtons. So you are upgrading 25% to the base 100 N of Force. However, what do you do when the stat you are upgrading is Weapon Damage Bonus, like many of the passives have. Weapon Damage Bonus is expressed as a percentage.

So Rank 1 Weapon Damage Bonus may be 10%. If we say at rank 2 the Weapon Damage Bonus increases by 50% what is the correct result for total weapon damage bonus now. If you used formula 1, it would be 15%. But that goes against what people expect, because you are increasing a percent by a percent. Instead, you expect the numbers to add together. So a 50% increase to 10% should be 60%.

Because of this we created a different formula for these sorts of stats. This just makes the numbers work like what players expect. The formula is simple

New Value = (Base Value at Rank 1 + Sum of Rank all rank bonuses) * (1.0 + Dynamic Bonuses)

And that’s all the math formulas. I promise you the numbers we are giving you are correct and are calculated correctly and we spent lots of time discussing the formulas, when to use which ones, and how players will understand. We understand this isn’t clear in-game how the formulas work, but the important information is given to you the player. You are told the end result of your action as well as the percentage increase. This really only breaks down when you think the game is broken and decide to do the math on your own and realize you don’t have the correct formula to solve the problem.

We realized this would be a very small percentage of people that do this so instead of confusing people and trying to explain everything in game with complicated formulas, we do the math in the background, give you guys the results that matter and let you make your choices from there. The truly hardcore can read this, hopefully helpful, forum post to understand everything further.

I hope that clarifies how we are calculating our numbers in ME3 for the powers. I know you all have 1000 questions on specifics of each power, but myself and the other designers cannot answer every single question, so I’m going to try to avoid going into huge details for future inquiries regarding powers. There’s just too many of you, too few of us, and we still have work to do on top of reading forums. I hope you understand.

Thank you so much for your passion, support, dedication and for your kind words regarding the demo. We all hope you enjoy the full game even more in March.