Having trouble finding all the h_ba. Any suggestions on were to locate them all.
Over Haul
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Draygoth28
, févr. 14 2012 03:04
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#152
Posté 19 mars 2013 - 10:29
OldTimeRadio
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Yep, you can find them in HOTU Patch Data, in Models. If you ever need to search, you can select any of the tree list items on the left (in the screenshot below), hit CTRL-S and then type in what you want to search for and hit enter. It'll search from that point on down and it won't loop back up to the top again so if I'm looking for something and I have no idea where it's going to be, I just search from "NWN Main Data" right at the top.Draygoth28 wrote...
Having trouble finding all the h_ba. Any suggestions on were to locate them all.
#153
Posté 19 mars 2013 - 10:34
Nissa_Red
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Please open your NWNexplorer.
Click on "NWN:HoTU Patch Data" :
(click to enlarge)
and browse down to find them :
Then you can right-click on each of them to export them (directly as binary models).
If you need them uncompiled, click on the "Ascii Model" tab first to the right side, then right-click somewhere in the window to export.
EDIT : Woops, OTR beat me to it, just shows how slow I am at typing >.<
Click on "NWN:HoTU Patch Data" :
(click to enlarge)
and browse down to find them :
Then you can right-click on each of them to export them (directly as binary models).
If you need them uncompiled, click on the "Ascii Model" tab first to the right side, then right-click somewhere in the window to export.
EDIT : Woops, OTR beat me to it, just shows how slow I am at typing >.<
Modifié par Nissa_Red, 19 mars 2013 - 10:35 .
#154
Posté 19 mars 2013 - 11:15
Draygoth28
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Well I got it to work once, but got an error message about bones. Now it is says unable to locate super model "h_ba" again. Not sure what I am doing wrong.
I found them all and loaded into G-Max one at a time. Then compiled to desktop to get the ascii file for each one. I placed them into the compiled folder, (didn't work) then into the decompiled folder (didn't work). if I let the compiler run it just goes down the list of each one and says can't find.
I found them all and loaded into G-Max one at a time. Then compiled to desktop to get the ascii file for each one. I placed them into the compiled folder, (didn't work) then into the decompiled folder (didn't work). if I let the compiler run it just goes down the list of each one and says can't find.
Modifié par Draygoth28, 19 mars 2013 - 11:33 .
#155
Posté 20 mars 2013 - 12:12
OldTimeRadio
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@Draygoth28 - Here's how you want to get the ASCII version of any model:
1. Load NWN Explorer Reborn
2. Find the model and double-click on it (doesn't matter if you see anything or not when it loads)
3. At the bottom of the preview window, you're going to see some tab-like headings, like "Model", "ASCII Model", "ASCII Model Hierarchy" and so on. Click on the ASCII Model tab.
4. On the resulting preview window, at the top, will be a tab with the name of the model. Right click on that and select "Export Text" to export the text you see to a file.
That's quite a bit quicker way of going about it.
1. Load NWN Explorer Reborn
2. Find the model and double-click on it (doesn't matter if you see anything or not when it loads)
3. At the bottom of the preview window, you're going to see some tab-like headings, like "Model", "ASCII Model", "ASCII Model Hierarchy" and so on. Click on the ASCII Model tab.
4. On the resulting preview window, at the top, will be a tab with the name of the model. Right click on that and select "Export Text" to export the text you see to a file.
That's quite a bit quicker way of going about it.
#156
Posté 20 mars 2013 - 12:15
OldTimeRadio
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The way I just showed (above) will get you those files, individually. You'll probably need to chop off the ".txt" extension it adds to the end. Keep a copy someplace handy. Copy the ASCII .mdl files either into the "in" folder or maybe where you have the model compiler executable. For the DLA compiler, I don't do it with folders (I do everything in the same folder) so I'm not sure. Once you've run it once, ther'es a good chance it may have compiled the (h_ba_*.mdl) models you put in the directory to facilitate compilation, so you may have to recopy them into your folder again.
#157
Posté 20 mars 2013 - 03:12
Draygoth28
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no matter what I try, it says unable to locate super model "h_ba". Not sure if I'm not setting it up right, or if there is something more needed.
*Anybody want to take a crack at it. I can upload one of the models in asc format. I really want to figure this out.
*Anybody want to take a crack at it. I can upload one of the models in asc format. I really want to figure this out.
Modifié par Draygoth28, 20 mars 2013 - 10:28 .
#158
Posté 20 mars 2013 - 01:38
OldTimeRadio
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You can either PM or email me the model and I'll see what I can do.
It may be that you're doing everything correctly and the issue is related to how the compilation process works with these models in the supermodel chain. As much as we might consider ourselves lucky to have all these wonderful tools (either Bioware or community made) at our disposal, outside of a certain range of operations things can become very difficult.
It's my belief that some of the tools Bioware and Floodgate Entertainment used to produce NWN and its expansions (especially the expansions) may have differed considerably from what the community has access to, even today.
It may be that you're doing everything correctly and the issue is related to how the compilation process works with these models in the supermodel chain. As much as we might consider ourselves lucky to have all these wonderful tools (either Bioware or community made) at our disposal, outside of a certain range of operations things can become very difficult.
It's my belief that some of the tools Bioware and Floodgate Entertainment used to produce NWN and its expansions (especially the expansions) may have differed considerably from what the community has access to, even today.
Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 20 mars 2013 - 01:47 .
#160
Posté 21 mars 2013 - 04:41
Bluebomber4evr
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Draygoth, that camel and elephant are amazing!
If you make a hippopotamus and a giraffe you will be my hero
If you make a hippopotamus and a giraffe you will be my hero
#161
Posté 21 mars 2013 - 11:19
Draygoth28
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I have several more models that I may be able to use. It all hangs on whether they can be compiled as mounts. If not they cause lag / hitching.
#162
Posté 21 mars 2013 - 03:09
OldTimeRadio
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Okay, got this working. Couple of points about this particular model and the model you're using as a skeleton for it:
1. This model's skin mesh is 13k triangles and almost 7k verts. In comparison, the base DLA horse has two skin mesh sections which combine for 532 triangles and 271 verts. So that's 25-26x times as many verts the engine is being asked to manipulate. IMO, this elephant is more art than game model. For a tile or a static placeable (with shadows turned off), these aren't scary numbers. Those numbers for a dynamic model, though? I'd go looking for more game-ready art.
2.Texture needs to be power of 2. As it was, the texture was 800 x 540. This may work on your video card but for older cards (NVidia pre 7000 series or thereabouts) this is either going to bring the whole game to a crawl the moment it's loaded or the card won't load the texture at all. All you have to do to fix this is to resize the texture to 512x512. It'll look distorted to you, but the way the engine uses the texture, it'll look fine in-game and it won't cause any problems for people with older cards.
Besides, the DDS conversion tool will throw an error if you try to compile TGA->DDS without using power of 2 textures. (i.e. height and width need to be 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc.though they probably don't have to be square)
3. Shadows and textures should be removed from all the skeleton bones. Only a few of your bones have shadows and I don't think many of them have textures, so it shouldn't take too long to fix. For bones, I believe this is as easy as editing the text file for the skeleton you're using (I presume you have a default skeleton) and do a text replace so all "bitmap" lines read "bitmap NULL"- except those for "node skin", which are your skin nodes. To fix the shadows, similarly make sure all the shadow lines read "Shadow 0" instead of "Shadow 1". If you're re-using the skeleton, you only have to fix these issues once.
4. Add an Auroa TriMesh Modifier to your Skin(s), drag them under the skin modifier (A) and turn on Override Material Values(B). If you don't do this, your skins will look unnecessarily dark in-game. Click below for larger:
None of these things above are nitpicky: They have a real impact on your model's performance and display in-game, though it's often difficult to tell it because when testing models we typically are looking at them in a blank area and not in an otherwise complicated scene (i.e. placeables, other creatures moving around, etc.).
Here's a very simple kit with all the models you're going to need to compile mounts, including the compiler and instructions. Works just like I indicated before, from the command line:
1. This model's skin mesh is 13k triangles and almost 7k verts. In comparison, the base DLA horse has two skin mesh sections which combine for 532 triangles and 271 verts. So that's 25-26x times as many verts the engine is being asked to manipulate. IMO, this elephant is more art than game model. For a tile or a static placeable (with shadows turned off), these aren't scary numbers. Those numbers for a dynamic model, though? I'd go looking for more game-ready art.
2.Texture needs to be power of 2. As it was, the texture was 800 x 540. This may work on your video card but for older cards (NVidia pre 7000 series or thereabouts) this is either going to bring the whole game to a crawl the moment it's loaded or the card won't load the texture at all. All you have to do to fix this is to resize the texture to 512x512. It'll look distorted to you, but the way the engine uses the texture, it'll look fine in-game and it won't cause any problems for people with older cards.
Besides, the DDS conversion tool will throw an error if you try to compile TGA->DDS without using power of 2 textures. (i.e. height and width need to be 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, etc.though they probably don't have to be square)
3. Shadows and textures should be removed from all the skeleton bones. Only a few of your bones have shadows and I don't think many of them have textures, so it shouldn't take too long to fix. For bones, I believe this is as easy as editing the text file for the skeleton you're using (I presume you have a default skeleton) and do a text replace so all "bitmap" lines read "bitmap NULL"- except those for "node skin", which are your skin nodes. To fix the shadows, similarly make sure all the shadow lines read "Shadow 0" instead of "Shadow 1". If you're re-using the skeleton, you only have to fix these issues once.
4. Add an Auroa TriMesh Modifier to your Skin(s), drag them under the skin modifier (A) and turn on Override Material Values(B). If you don't do this, your skins will look unnecessarily dark in-game. Click below for larger:
None of these things above are nitpicky: They have a real impact on your model's performance and display in-game, though it's often difficult to tell it because when testing models we typically are looking at them in a blank area and not in an otherwise complicated scene (i.e. placeables, other creatures moving around, etc.).
Here's a very simple kit with all the models you're going to need to compile mounts, including the compiler and instructions. Works just like I indicated before, from the command line:
Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 21 mars 2013 - 03:15 .
#163
Posté 21 mars 2013 - 09:33
Draygoth28
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I will make all the changes you mentioned. Was there much lag after you got the model compiled?
#164
Posté 21 mars 2013 - 09:46
Nissa_Red
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Thank you, OTR, for looking into this for Draygoth, and the community as a whole, since if Draygoth releases it at a later time, we'll all be benefitting from it.
I also keep learning from your very informative posts all the time.
I also keep learning from your very informative posts all the time.
#165
Posté 21 mars 2013 - 09:55
OldTimeRadio
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Lag loading-wise:
When I informally tested it with the uncompiled model, loading in the toolset the compile time was something pretty bad, seemed at least 30+ seconds, possibly much more. In situations where the model hasn't compiled in about 5 seconds, I just go to the task manger, drop the process priority level on nwtoolset.exe and go do something else, checking back occasionally.
After being compiled, the load time in the toolset was about two seconds. I normally don't even attempt dynamic models with this level of complexity but I will say that my experience loading static objects that even around 150k+ triangle models, when precompiled, usually load in something around two seconds. I think it's disk access speed mostly.
Lag gameplay-wise:
When you've compiled a model, you've done half the hard work up front for NWN. In a case of all the vert deformations from bone movement, the elephant seemed to walk smoothly, even when tested on a GeForce 3 Ti 200. However, this can be misleading because NWN throws everything it has at a scene and when the scene is just rural grass and the elephant, it can deal with it. I have no idea how well that would work a a normal scene with placeables, other creatures moving around, etc.
When I informally tested it with the uncompiled model, loading in the toolset the compile time was something pretty bad, seemed at least 30+ seconds, possibly much more. In situations where the model hasn't compiled in about 5 seconds, I just go to the task manger, drop the process priority level on nwtoolset.exe and go do something else, checking back occasionally.
After being compiled, the load time in the toolset was about two seconds. I normally don't even attempt dynamic models with this level of complexity but I will say that my experience loading static objects that even around 150k+ triangle models, when precompiled, usually load in something around two seconds. I think it's disk access speed mostly.
Lag gameplay-wise:
When you've compiled a model, you've done half the hard work up front for NWN. In a case of all the vert deformations from bone movement, the elephant seemed to walk smoothly, even when tested on a GeForce 3 Ti 200. However, this can be misleading because NWN throws everything it has at a scene and when the scene is just rural grass and the elephant, it can deal with it. I have no idea how well that would work a a normal scene with placeables, other creatures moving around, etc.
Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 21 mars 2013 - 09:56 .
#166
Posté 21 mars 2013 - 10:02
Draygoth28
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Thanks, I will test quite a bit before I add any to HAK. I have other models that are not as bad as this one.
#167
Posté 23 mars 2013 - 05:15
Draygoth28
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Just got back into town, and haven't messed with this to much. So far I am still getting the 'nwnmdlcomp.exe' is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file.
and when I try with the other compiler, unable to locate super model "h_ba". So no luck as of yet.
and when I try with the other compiler, unable to locate super model "h_ba". So no luck as of yet.
#168
Posté 23 mars 2013 - 05:28
OldTimeRadio
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I dunno what to tell ya on that front. If you check upthread, someone mentioned something about Vista. I skipped Vista entirely and my laptop has Windows 7. I know I've compiled models on there before. Maybe it was using the Bioware internal compiler or something. Check your permissions, maybe? I know if you right click you can get properties and under compatibility set it to "Run as Administrator". Silly place to put it, IMO. Anyway, this stuff is all being run from a command prompt. Make sure the name I'm using as an example matches the name of the executable.
Hrm...anyone else got ideas what's going on there?
Hrm...anyone else got ideas what's going on there?
#169
Posté 23 mars 2013 - 11:58
Nissa_Red
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I think you've covered pretty much everything I would have tried already, OTR.
I don't have Vista, so I am totally out in the dark with any suggestion I could make here after. My best advice would be to have someone else compile the models for you, Draygoth, once you feel you're done with the texturing/animating in GMax. Not an ideal long-term solution for sure.
I have read about people having issues with programs (games) installed directly under "c\\:program files" (or equivalent). They would refuse to run properly, even with administrator rights, unless installed somewhere else, but I think that was for Windows 7 and I fail to see how that applies to a single executable/batch like nwnmdlcomp. However, if nwnmdlcomp somehow uses or links to NWN resources, and if the game is installed in that directory, well...
Another thing you might want to try is to work at a very low level in your folder structure, with no long directory names, no spaces or complex characters in them. Have everything you need in a folder like "c:\\nwn", or "d:\\work" before attempting the compilation.
Perhaps you could also try to add that folder to your %PATH% in your environment settings, but unless you weren't the owner/administrator of your computer, I honestly do NOT see why it should suddenly work after doing so.
Lastly, barring a hypothetical debugging of "nwnmdlcomp" (is the source code even still avalaible ?), to see why it fails to link to the supermodel, and recompile a version that would work on your computer, I am afraid I can't think of anything else right now.
Sorry I can't help you better. EDIT : I hope all this won't change your mind on continueing to work on your models however. They look too good to be sacrificed on the altar of some silly stupid Windows Vista quirk.
Sending you my best encouragements ^.^
I don't have Vista, so I am totally out in the dark with any suggestion I could make here after. My best advice would be to have someone else compile the models for you, Draygoth, once you feel you're done with the texturing/animating in GMax. Not an ideal long-term solution for sure.
I have read about people having issues with programs (games) installed directly under "c\\:program files" (or equivalent). They would refuse to run properly, even with administrator rights, unless installed somewhere else, but I think that was for Windows 7 and I fail to see how that applies to a single executable/batch like nwnmdlcomp. However, if nwnmdlcomp somehow uses or links to NWN resources, and if the game is installed in that directory, well...
Another thing you might want to try is to work at a very low level in your folder structure, with no long directory names, no spaces or complex characters in them. Have everything you need in a folder like "c:\\nwn", or "d:\\work" before attempting the compilation.
Perhaps you could also try to add that folder to your %PATH% in your environment settings, but unless you weren't the owner/administrator of your computer, I honestly do NOT see why it should suddenly work after doing so.
Lastly, barring a hypothetical debugging of "nwnmdlcomp" (is the source code even still avalaible ?), to see why it fails to link to the supermodel, and recompile a version that would work on your computer, I am afraid I can't think of anything else right now.
Sorry I can't help you better. EDIT : I hope all this won't change your mind on continueing to work on your models however. They look too good to be sacrificed on the altar of some silly stupid Windows Vista quirk.
Sending you my best encouragements ^.^
Modifié par Nissa_Red, 23 mars 2013 - 12:11 .
#170
Posté 23 mars 2013 - 01:07
Rolo Kipp
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<exhibiting his...>
You might also try turning UAC completely off. Starting with Vista Windows tries to "protect" any file *not* under the user directory, so if your compiler is working on a root directory (like c:/neverwinternights/NwN) or you are running a batch file (with proper permissions) that runs a program *without* permission, Big Bro will nix it.
UAC settings can be found under User Accounts on the control panel.
FWIW, I turn off UAC on my personal computers and do most of my NwN work on public networks like Starbucks. Never been successfully infected. (I *do* have multiple safeguards in place and practice safe browsing ;-)
<...chaotic side>
You might also try turning UAC completely off. Starting with Vista Windows tries to "protect" any file *not* under the user directory, so if your compiler is working on a root directory (like c:/neverwinternights/NwN) or you are running a batch file (with proper permissions) that runs a program *without* permission, Big Bro will nix it.
UAC settings can be found under User Accounts on the control panel.
FWIW, I turn off UAC on my personal computers and do most of my NwN work on public networks like Starbucks. Never been successfully infected. (I *do* have multiple safeguards in place and practice safe browsing ;-)
<...chaotic side>
#171
Posté 23 mars 2013 - 01:57
Draygoth28
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My command line looks like this "nwnmdlcomp.exe -cn c_elephant_mt.asc c_elephant_mt.mdl" I am getting Error: Unable to open input file "c_elephant_mt.asc"
I have tried exporting from mwmax, and nwexplorer. any ideas here, The compiler is working I believe, but maybe I am not using the correct asc file.
I have tried exporting from mwmax, and nwexplorer. any ideas here, The compiler is working I believe, but maybe I am not using the correct asc file.
#172
Posté 23 mars 2013 - 03:00
Draygoth28
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Ok I got it to work, will start testing more now. There seems to be a slight hitch, but I don't think it would bother anyone. What do you think about adding optimizer before compiling. would this help or be overwritten when compiled.
*I had to create two different folders and run the nwnmdlcomp using command lie:NWNMdlComp –cn Ascii\\*.mdl Binary\\.
*I had to create two different folders and run the nwnmdlcomp using command lie:NWNMdlComp –cn Ascii\\*.mdl Binary\\.
#173
Posté 23 mars 2013 - 03:08
OldTimeRadio
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I don't know what you mean by optimizer. Do you mean the "n" part of the "-cn" command line option, the Optimize modifier in Max, or...(?)Draygoth28 wrote...
What do you think about adding optimizer before compiling. would this help or be overwritten when compiled.
I am super puzzled what's going on that's making you jump through hoops like that. The kit I posted, you should just be able to extract that so the contents are in their own directory. Then navigate there using the CMD prompt and then typing in the command line arguments to launch the program with the switches you want.*I had to create two different folders and run the nwnmdlcomp using command lie:NWNMdlComp –cn Ascii*.mdl Binary.
Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 23 mars 2013 - 03:10 .
#174
Posté 23 mars 2013 - 03:30
Draygoth28
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Yah, sorry about that I was talking about the optimize modifier in Max.
I am just as puzzled as you are, I was beating my head on my desk and decided to take another approach, and it worked out. I'm just happy I can continue to work on this (was getting ready to move on to new project)
On a side note:The compiled model causes virtually no lag at all (Tested with moderate placeables). mount dismount is very fluid, will test more to see if there are issues with other models moving in the area and so on...
OTR...I want to thank you for all your help and patients,
P.S. Not crazy about the scaling of the model, but that is an issue I will live with.
I am just as puzzled as you are, I was beating my head on my desk and decided to take another approach, and it worked out. I'm just happy I can continue to work on this (was getting ready to move on to new project)
On a side note:The compiled model causes virtually no lag at all (Tested with moderate placeables). mount dismount is very fluid, will test more to see if there are issues with other models moving in the area and so on...
OTR...I want to thank you for all your help and patients,
P.S. Not crazy about the scaling of the model, but that is an issue I will live with.
Modifié par Draygoth28, 23 mars 2013 - 05:30 .
- OldTimeRadio aime ceci
#175
Posté 23 mars 2013 - 04:15
Rolo Kipp
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<letting it...>
As for the scaling, at first I was a bit put off by it as well, but it actually is begining to work for me. This is a special breed of fantasy oliphant for mounts :-)
Also, pygmy mammoths are a fact and I always wanted to do something barbarian with them :-)
Edit: And yes, this is inspired by Mongo =)
<...grow on him>
As for the scaling, at first I was a bit put off by it as well, but it actually is begining to work for me. This is a special breed of fantasy oliphant for mounts :-)
Also, pygmy mammoths are a fact and I always wanted to do something barbarian with them :-)
Edit: And yes, this is inspired by Mongo =)
<...grow on him>
Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 23 mars 2013 - 04:17 .
