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Criticism of low influence of ME2 on ME3


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#1
Kaiser Arian XVII

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It seems - considering the evidences - that Mass Effect 2 decisions has very few influence on Mass Effect 3. Collector Base which was the biggest decision of this game has no practical importance in ME3, other major decisions and siding with this or that aren't as important as it was in ME2. And it seems that the Trial is gone too.

Another disappointing part is, with some excuses all ME2 squadmates are gone to defend solely from their interests; despite the fact that they're more vulnerable while deserting Shepard. Just Because ME1 squads are more popular.

So what do you think?
Was ME2 a big Joke or a Shepard's Dream?!
Is ME3 a RPG or a shooter with no (or only few) RPG elements?

Modifié par Jedi Sentinel Arian, 07 avril 2012 - 05:57 .


#2
lolerk53

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...
As long as the ending is different, whatever.

#3
RinpocheSchnozberry

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You can tell how important ME2 was to ME3 by the demo and hearsay. Really. No sarcasm here!

#4
JasonPogo

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They made all the squad mates is ME2 killable. They could not write a good story for any of them since they might be dead in your game. Granted that is prob a bad idea in hindsight but thats what they did.

#5
Innrcitiprssre

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[SPOILER]

At the end of Mass Effect 2 you either destroy the collector base, or give it to Cerberus. Assuming you happened to give it to Cerberus, you only saw some Cerberus troopers and mechs in the demo, how how can you say that your decision will have no effects based upon one level?

#6
JasonPogo

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Innrcitiprssre wrote...

[SPOILER]

At the end of Mass Effect 2 you either destroy the collector base, or give it to Cerberus. Assuming you happened to give it to Cerberus, you only saw some Cerberus troopers and mechs in the demo, how how can you say that your decision will have no effects based upon one level?


What?

#7
Insane 1

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Because a demo explains the definite outcome of the franchise...

#8
mjh417

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Wow this thread is new, exciting and original. OP did you read the leaked script?????

#9
Balek-Vriege

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Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

It seems - considering the evidences - that Mass Effect 2 decisions has very few influence on Mass Effect 3. Collector Base which was the biggest decision of this game has no practical importance in ME3, other major decisions and siding with this or that aren't as important as it was in ME2. And it seems that the Trial is gone too.

Another disappointing part is, with some excuses all ME2 squadmates are gone to defend solely from their interests; despite the fact that they're more vulnerable while deserting Shepard. Just Because ME1 squads are more popular.

So what do you think?
Was ME2 a big Joke or a Shepard's Dream?!
Is ME3 a RPG or a shooter with no (or only few) RPG elements?


Trial was never there in the first place.  Basically all Bioware said on the matter was "The game starts out with Shepard being on trial."  They never said it would be the beginning, middle or end of it and it turned out to be the latter.  I know I assumed there would be along drawn out one question or answer session, but even then I could see the problems with that (slow start like ME1, game going into details too fast for new players, forced dialogue).

As for the decisions there's no evidence or way of knowing what really effects your ME3 playthrough from ME1/ME2.  That includes events around Cerberus and the collector base.  Although they may seem to have the same conclusions now, they way turn out to help/hinder you in some other way.  The ME2 squadmates "deserting" you is the way to go if you ask me:

-Half of them were clearly along for the ride for whatever reasons in ME2
-Shep gets arrested and put on trial for who knows how long.  Kind of hard to follow fearless leader when they're not in position to lead on anything.
-All of them are high profile in their own way and have detailed back stories and important motivations which would lead to them doing what they want/have to do.  Only Tali, Garrus a love interest and maybe Jacob/Miranda are true "Shepard Acolytes" and we get Garrus and Tali for sure.
-Technically it would be a nightmare to have all 12 squaddies from ME2, all ME1 squaddies and new ones involved in every part of the story.  That's a lot of extra people on board to write story for and would lack focus.  From my point of view I never liked  the final fantasy number of party members (form the early ones) when you have like 20-40 "heroes" running around all the time with you.

ME2 isn't a big joke choices or no choices.  It at least sets up Cerberus' actions, culture and motivations for ME3, why the Reapers are doing what they do and set up many of the side plots (politics, races etc.).

#10
Kaiser Arian XVII

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mjh417 wrote...

Wow this thread is new, exciting and original. OP did you read the leaked script?????


Not exactly, but read it here and there.

I can see sort of 'rush in' and/or 'make appealing to new customers' weakness here.
By get ridding several factors from ME3, Bioware make their game polished and ready but not as exciting as it should be.

#11
Weskerr

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Going by the demo alone, I am disappointed with ME3's handling of exposition and use of dramatic build up. Some of the dialogue itself is banally uninspiring (the interaction between the Defense Committee and Shepard). However, the Demo is not the game so it's premature to assess the quality of ME3. I'll do that once the game is out.

#12
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Weskerr wrote...

Going by the demo alone, I am disappointed with ME3's handling of exposition and use of dramatic build up. Some of the dialogue itself is banally uninspiring (the interaction between the Defense Committee and Shepard). However, the Demo is not the game so it's premature to assess the quality of ME3. I'll do that once the game is out.


Yes, the final judgement and reviews will be written at that time.

Still I think Bioware should invest more time and effort on its games, after this, as ME3 is in the state of Gold.

#13
darkdruid117

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Insane 1 wrote...

Because a demo explains the definite outcome of the franchise...


You mean you did not know this? Well Duh!;)

#14
Major Alenko

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This is pretty much what happened with ME1 and ME2, playing ME2 it's like ME1 never existed. But we have played ME1 and ME2 and can make that judgement. On the other hand, no one here has even played ME3 yet. So I'm reserving judgement until after I've played it.

#15
Weskerr

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Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Going by the demo alone, I am disappointed with ME3's handling of exposition and use of dramatic build up. Some of the dialogue itself is banally uninspiring (the interaction between the Defense Committee and Shepard). However, the Demo is not the game so it's premature to assess the quality of ME3. I'll do that once the game is out.


Yes, the final judgement and reviews will be written at that time.

Still I think Bioware should invest more time and effort on its games, after this, as ME3 is in the state of Gold.


Based on the demo alone, I agree with you.

#16
Balek-Vriege

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Weskerr wrote...

Going by the demo alone, I am disappointed with ME3's handling of exposition and use of dramatic build up. Some of the dialogue itself is banally uninspiring (the interaction between the Defense Committee and Shepard). However, the Demo is not the game so it's premature to assess the quality of ME3. I'll do that once the game is out.


I think it's fine to judge the Earth Mission for what it is in the demo.  One has to remember that it probably isn't all of the intro though.  Think of it as the Normandy beginning in ME2 which also happens before the "ME3 logo" combined with the Lazarus mission.  I'm betting the real introduction to the more complex plots will happen post Earth the same way it did in ME2 when meeting TIM and similar to ME1 before Eden Prime.

There's definitely a chance the Earth Mission is the only intro and we head directly to the next mission soon after, with the story being explained well or not so well over the course of the game.

Edit:  It's also obvious they chose Earth/Sur'Kesh Missions because they are spoiler free mostly.  Even then if you watch demo trailers from last years there's a lot missing from the second mission in terms of dialogue and events.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 14 février 2012 - 07:07 .


#17
Weskerr

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Balek-Vriege wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Going by the demo alone, I am disappointed with ME3's handling of exposition and use of dramatic build up. Some of the dialogue itself is banally uninspiring (the interaction between the Defense Committee and Shepard). However, the Demo is not the game so it's premature to assess the quality of ME3. I'll do that once the game is out.


I think it's fine to judge the Earth Mission for what it is in the demo.  One has to remember that it probably isn't all of the intro though.  Think of it as the Normandy beginning in ME2 which also happens before the "ME3 logo" combined with the Lazarus mission.  I'm betting the real introduction to the more complex plots will happen post Earth the same way it did in ME2 when meeting TIM and similar to ME1 before Eden Prime.

There's definitely a chance the Earth Mission is the only intro and we head directly to the next mission soon after, with the story being explained well or not so well over the course of the game.

Edit:  It's also obvious they chose Earth/Sur'Kesh Missions because they are spoiler free mostly.  Even then if you watch demo trailers from last years there's a lot missing from the second mission in terms of dialogue and events.


Taken on it's own, the Earth demo is not very good. I'm not even sure if anything can be done to fix that - whether it be exposition after Shepard boards the Normandy or when he's at the Citadel. Later exposition might clear up some confusion that occured during the escape from earth, but in terms of actually instilling any tension or drama into it, that won't happen. That has to happen during the intro itself.

#18
Dave of Canada

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They didn't even explore threads which were created without player input.

Arrival, which implied that Batarian space would be harvested first and made tensions between the Alliance and the Hedgemony high before the Reaper invasion, simply was transformed into an excuse to start Shepard off on Earth. It's importance was minimal, none of the threads created by it were explored and ME3 doesn't even deal with the Alliance leaving you to hang out and dry.

It was a seven dollar cash-in.

#19
Balek-Vriege

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Weskerr wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Going by the demo alone, I am disappointed with ME3's handling of exposition and use of dramatic build up. Some of the dialogue itself is banally uninspiring (the interaction between the Defense Committee and Shepard). However, the Demo is not the game so it's premature to assess the quality of ME3. I'll do that once the game is out.


I think it's fine to judge the Earth Mission for what it is in the demo.  One has to remember that it probably isn't all of the intro though.  Think of it as the Normandy beginning in ME2 which also happens before the "ME3 logo" combined with the Lazarus mission.  I'm betting the real introduction to the more complex plots will happen post Earth the same way it did in ME2 when meeting TIM and similar to ME1 before Eden Prime.

There's definitely a chance the Earth Mission is the only intro and we head directly to the next mission soon after, with the story being explained well or not so well over the course of the game.

Edit:  It's also obvious they chose Earth/Sur'Kesh Missions because they are spoiler free mostly.  Even then if you watch demo trailers from last years there's a lot missing from the second mission in terms of dialogue and events.


Taken on it's own, the Earth demo is not very good. I'm not even sure if anything can be done to fix that - whether it be exposition after Shepard boards the Normandy or when he's at the Citadel. Later exposition might clear up some confusion that occured during the escape from earth, but in terms of actually instilling any tension or drama into it, that won't happen. That has to happen during the intro itself.


That's a matter of subjective opinion though.  A lot of people, including me, think the intro is good.  But to each their own.  Having reapers raining down all over the place should be tension enough in my opinion.  Again, escaping earth seems to have more in common with the Normandy SR1 escape with an Eden Prime/Lazarus Station feel and mission added onto it.
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#20
Weskerr

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Balek-Vriege wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

Going by the demo alone, I am disappointed with ME3's handling of exposition and use of dramatic build up. Some of the dialogue itself is banally uninspiring (the interaction between the Defense Committee and Shepard). However, the Demo is not the game so it's premature to assess the quality of ME3. I'll do that once the game is out.


I think it's fine to judge the Earth Mission for what it is in the demo.  One has to remember that it probably isn't all of the intro though.  Think of it as the Normandy beginning in ME2 which also happens before the "ME3 logo" combined with the Lazarus mission.  I'm betting the real introduction to the more complex plots will happen post Earth the same way it did in ME2 when meeting TIM and similar to ME1 before Eden Prime.

There's definitely a chance the Earth Mission is the only intro and we head directly to the next mission soon after, with the story being explained well or not so well over the course of the game.

Edit:  It's also obvious they chose Earth/Sur'Kesh Missions because they are spoiler free mostly.  Even then if you watch demo trailers from last years there's a lot missing from the second mission in terms of dialogue and events.


Taken on it's own, the Earth demo is not very good. I'm not even sure if anything can be done to fix that - whether it be exposition after Shepard boards the Normandy or when he's at the Citadel. Later exposition might clear up some confusion that occured during the escape from earth, but in terms of actually instilling any tension or drama into it, that won't happen. That has to happen during the intro itself.


That's a matter of subjective opinion though.  A lot of people, including me, think the intro is good.  But to each their own.  Having reapers raining down all over the place should be tension enough in my opinion.  Again, escaping earth seems to have more in common with the Normandy SR1 escape with an Eden Prime/Lazarus Station feel and mission added onto it.
Image IPB


Sure that's certianly true. I totally respect you for your opinion of the demo intro. As for myself, I thought it was lackluster and underwhelming and even boring. To each his own though as you said.

#21
Seboist

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Dave of Canada wrote...

They didn't even explore threads which were created without player input.

Arrival, which implied that Batarian space would be harvested first and made tensions between the Alliance and the Hedgemony high before the Reaper invasion, simply was transformed into an excuse to start Shepard off on Earth. It's importance was minimal, none of the threads created by it were explored and ME3 doesn't even deal with the Alliance leaving you to hang out and dry.

It was a seven dollar cash-in.


LOTSB was made pointless as well. The Liara buildup as a major supporting character goes nowhere.

It's sadly another in the long line of plot points that go nowhere.

#22
Guest_Saphra Deden_*

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Dave of Canada wrote...

They didn't even explore threads which were created without player input.

Arrival, which implied that Batarian space would be harvested first and made tensions between the Alliance and the Hedgemony high before the Reaper invasion, simply was transformed into an excuse to start Shepard off on Earth. It's importance was minimal, none of the threads created by it were explored and ME3 doesn't even deal with the Alliance leaving you to hang out and dry.

It was a seven dollar cash-in.


They way Walters raves about Arrival you'd think it was a huge part of the story... but it isn't.

It had no serious effect on anything and wasn't even necessary to kick-start ME3.

#23
Lotion Soronarr

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If the demo and leak are any indication, the actual depth of the setting/world and quality of writing have been going steadily down.

There's plenty of people who wont' care, as long as it's "cinematic" and there's lots of explosions and shotty bits. More power to them.
Me? To me a RPG is all about universe/setting/atmosphere....

#24
Seboist

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Lotion Soronnar wrote...

If the demo and leak are any indication, the actual depth of the setting/world and quality of writing have been going steadily down.

There's plenty of people who wont' care, as long as it's "cinematic" and there's lots of explosions and shotty bits. More power to them.
Me? To me a RPG is all about universe/setting/atmosphere....


Yeah, I have no interest in playing a substandard gears of war clone that STILL doesn't have blindfire.

#25
Kaiser Arian XVII

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Seboist wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

If the demo and leak are any indication, the actual depth of the setting/world and quality of writing have been going steadily down.

There's plenty of people who wont' care, as long as it's "cinematic" and there's lots of explosions and shotty bits. More power to them.
Me? To me a RPG is all about universe/setting/atmosphere....


Yeah, I have no interest in playing a substandard gears of war clone that STILL doesn't have blindfire.


We shall see! But the atmosphere has become so toxic ...