1059 réponses à ce sujet

[druss44121]

harryandgem... a lot of that has been disputed. I don't own an XBOX (I originally bought the PS3 just for a blu-ray player, I'd always been a PC gamer but was getting fed up with excessive DRM), but several friends of mine have the XBOX. Arkham City appeared to play slightly better for me on the PS3, actually, and I've read a few articles that agree on that point. Red Dead, you are right on that point, but that game has some of the best anti-aliasing I've ever seen on a multiplat for PS3, so I'm not complaining. As for Rage, the pop-in was a complaint on all systems including the PC and considering the way the megatextures worked, I didn't mind at all considering I was getting those amazing graphics at 60 fps. I found the "pop in" on 360 equal.

But everyone without a bone to pick pretty much agrees, most multiplats are slightly better on XBOX while exclusives are much more interesting on the PS3. However I've found since 2010 the multiplat releases have been more even, whereas early on there was a much more noticeable different to the point that I avoided buying most multiplat games altogether. Just Cause 2 is another multiplat that I felt actually played a little better on my PS3 than what I saw on friend's systems.

[MegaSovereign]

druss44121 wrote...

And let me just reiterate - this is FIXABLE, period. Compare other games with better graphics and other games with the SAME ENGINE on the PS3. No excuses, it's fixable, and it WILL be fixed, or there's reason for legit concern and customer dissatisfaction. Look at Batman Arkham City on the PS3, look at everything going on there visually, look at the amazingly smooth framerate. Look at the ME2 demo, look at the sharpness of the graphics, and the much smoother framerate than the ME3 demo. Also, the ME3 demo for me played fine for the actual gameplay, it was the cinematics that felt like they were at a terrible 15 FPS. Whatever is going wrong, there's a fix, and it shouldn't require some groundup recoding, just as the Skyrim 1.04 patch really completely fixed any and all lag issues for me on Skyrim. There's a fix for this, don't let anyone tell you differently.

Also, according to the IGN review, the actual game runs this way, but it does get better over time. I'm hoping for a day one patch.

The Skyrim frame-rate issues were related to software. There was a lot of scripting issues in certain segments of the game.

If ME3 on PS3 is suffering from the same issue, then yea I can see it getting patched...but the thing is in ME2 there were lots of times where the framerate would stutter in the cutscenes.

[harryandgem]

druss44121 wrote...

And let me just reiterate - this is FIXABLE, period. Compare other games with better graphics and other games with the SAME ENGINE on the PS3. No excuses, it's fixable, and it WILL be fixed, or there's reason for legit concern and customer dissatisfaction. Look at Batman Arkham City on the PS3, look at everything going on there visually, look at the amazingly smooth framerate. Look at the ME2 demo, look at the sharpness of the graphics, and the much smoother framerate than the ME3 demo. Also, the ME3 demo for me played fine for the actual gameplay, it was the cinematics that felt like they were at a terrible 15 FPS. Whatever is going wrong, there's a fix, and it shouldn't require some groundup recoding, just as the Skyrim 1.04 patch really completely fixed any and all lag issues for me on Skyrim. There's a fix for this, don't let anyone tell you differently.

Also, according to the IGN review, the actual game runs this way, but it does get better over time. I'm hoping for a day one patch.

i agree with you on arkham games they are probably the best performing unreal engine games on ps3, so yes parity is achievable, but my 1 year old copy of mass effect 2 ps3 is a mess, not everyone suffers with the audio problems but a lot do, and they never fixed it.

[harryandgem]

druss44121 wrote...

harryandgem... a lot of that has been disputed. I don't own an XBOX (I originally bought the PS3 just for a blu-ray player, I'd always been a PC gamer but was getting fed up with excessive DRM), but several friends of mine have the XBOX. Arkham City appeared to play slightly better for me on the PS3, actually, and I've read a few articles that agree on that point. Red Dead, you are right on that point, but that game has some of the best anti-aliasing I've ever seen on a multiplat for PS3, so I'm not complaining. As for Rage, the pop-in was a complaint on all systems including the PC and considering the way the megatextures worked, I didn't mind at all considering I was getting those amazing graphics at 60 fps. I found the "pop in" on 360 equal.

But everyone without a bone to pick pretty much agrees, most multiplats are slightly better on XBOX while exclusives are much more interesting on the PS3. However I've found since 2010 the multiplat releases have been more even, whereas early on there was a much more noticeable different to the point that I avoided buying most multiplat games altogether. Just Cause 2 is another multiplat that I felt actually played a little better on my PS3 than what I saw on friend's systems.

i agree with all of this, im still amazed how good just cause 2 looks on ps3, with arkham i have both on my ps3, and they are amazing, and multiplats are closer than ever, if it was not for halo and mass effect i would probably just game on my ps3, there are great examples of multiplat parity i just think we are nether going to see that in me3.

[Valkyre4]

harryandgem wrote...

druss44121 wrote...

So basically the choices are... XBOX360, where you have to swap disks, PS3 with a subpar framerate, or the PC which is a mediocre console port and requires the Origin client. Ugh. Also, no excuse for the framerate issues. Many UE3 games on the PS3 (such as Batman Arkham City which runs flawlessly) have amazing framerates and a better use of the UE3 graphics engine than what we saw in the demo here. I'm not sure what's going on, but you can't just say, "well the PS3 is hard to code for," because the UE3 has been tried and tested. I played the ME2 demo on my PS3 and it played fine, as well, and looked better regarding anti-aliasing. Rage plays at 60 FPS on my PS3 and looks incredible. Red Dead Redemption looks incredible and almost never has slowdowns, ever. And those are all MULTIPLATS.

There's no excuse for this, and a patch should be released. Even Skyrim now plays as well as Oblivion ever did on my much more powerful PC, since those games always have some minor minor lag as the environment loads. No excuse for this, I expect it to either a) not be present in the real game or to be fixed via a patch. Anything else is unacceptable to this customer.

goggle a face of with any of those games you mention even the arkham games and you will see they played and performed better on 360, rage has awfull pop in and red deads native resolution is 20% less than 360, im not saying they dont look good on ps3 but they certainly look better on 360 [ i own both and def prefer my ps3]

Arkham City might be slightly better on 360 but the difference is so neglidgible it doesnt even matter. I wouldnt mind such small differences even if it was in favor of the 360. If the game looks and performs well, i wont mind if it missing an extra frame or 2. That is ok, it isnt even noticeable. But with ME3 the difference is quite big and very noticeable. Hence the 21 pages of rage.

I will try the 576p option with the demo. It will hurt my eyes, but I will do it just for the kicks of it. Even if it does perform better, it certainly is no reason to back off from expressing our disappointment and demanding a fix. I cant possibly play a game at 576p../ certainly not ME3 which is my most anticipating game of the year.

In any case this gen sucks for a lot of reasons and I believe the major reason is us, the consumers. I am not excluding myself but we are the ones who are tolerating a lot of crap we shouldnt be. (Day 1 DLCs, crappy ports, etc etc)

I love gaming, but a lot of things are going wrong. And if we dont stand up and show them they need to value us better, nothing will change for the better, but only for the worse.

[Fbh]

I don't think the framerate issues are 100% the fault of the hardware.
There are other games with Unreal Engine that run quite good on the console, and it's not as if ME3 was a powerhouse (characters looks great, but eerything else is just OK) as far as graphic goes nor does it have big open enviroments. Batman arkham city can run a decent sized open world filled with enemies and quests and stuff to do with a decent framerate and mass effect has problem with a extremely linear level???
It's the same story as allways, they make the game for xbox then rush a port for Ps3 to get more sales.


I don't get people deffending bioware. First it was like "you are all stupid, it's obvious that the final version will run perfectly", now that we know the final version runs about as bad as the demo it's "no big problem, stop complaining".
No one forced Bioware to release the game on Ps3. They are going to release a badly done product and charge us the same 60 bucks as on any other platform. I don't expect the game to run at 60fps, I just would like for it no to drop to 20 or less on every cutscene. If it's a hardware problem (and I seriously doubt it's the best they could do with it), then don't release the game on the console that's just how it is. If they are going to release a game on the system I own I expect it to run decently.

Oh, but how can we dare to complain. We should just keep our head low and eat the **** they throw at us. If it was for people on this forum we would still have the 10fps versión of skyrim, the 10fps version of bayonetta, the unpleyable online in twisted metal, no battlefield 1943 for people that bought Battlefield 3 (even if it was promised), horrible framerate on every new assassin creed (first one run badly on Ps3 and people complained) and PSN would probably still be down.

[harryandgem]

Valkyre4 wrote...

harryandgem wrote...

druss44121 wrote...

So basically the choices are... XBOX360, where you have to swap disks, PS3 with a subpar framerate, or the PC which is a mediocre console port and requires the Origin client. Ugh. Also, no excuse for the framerate issues. Many UE3 games on the PS3 (such as Batman Arkham City which runs flawlessly) have amazing framerates and a better use of the UE3 graphics engine than what we saw in the demo here. I'm not sure what's going on, but you can't just say, "well the PS3 is hard to code for," because the UE3 has been tried and tested. I played the ME2 demo on my PS3 and it played fine, as well, and looked better regarding anti-aliasing. Rage plays at 60 FPS on my PS3 and looks incredible. Red Dead Redemption looks incredible and almost never has slowdowns, ever. And those are all MULTIPLATS.

There's no excuse for this, and a patch should be released. Even Skyrim now plays as well as Oblivion ever did on my much more powerful PC, since those games always have some minor minor lag as the environment loads. No excuse for this, I expect it to either a) not be present in the real game or to be fixed via a patch. Anything else is unacceptable to this customer.

goggle a face of with any of those games you mention even the arkham games and you will see they played and performed better on 360, rage has awfull pop in and red deads native resolution is 20% less than 360, im not saying they dont look good on ps3 but they certainly look better on 360 [ i own both and def prefer my ps3]

Arkham City might be slightly better on 360 but the difference is so neglidgible it doesnt even matter. I wouldnt mind such small differences even if it was in favor of the 360. If the game looks and performs well, i wont mind if it missing an extra frame or 2. That is ok, it isnt even noticeable. But with ME3 the difference is quite big and very noticeable. Hence the 21 pages of rage.

I will try the 576p option with the demo. It will hurt my eyes, but I will do it just for the kicks of it. Even if it does perform better, it certainly is no reason to back off from expressing our disappointment and demanding a fix. I cant possibly play a game at 576p../ certainly not ME3 which is my most anticipating game of the year.

In any case this gen sucks for a lot of reasons and I believe the major reason is us, the consumers. I am not excluding myself but we are the ones who are tolerating a lot of crap we shouldnt be. (Day 1 DLCs, crappy ports, etc etc)

I love gaming, but a lot of things are going wrong. And if we dont stand up and show them they need to value us better, nothing will change for the better, but only for the worse.

i agree with you there, when project 10 dollar started i thought well ok its nice to see developers recoup some cost, but then it esculates to batman arkham city were my son whos 360 is not online missed out on all the catwomen content, that is just plainly wrong, along with [in the uk] so many different pre order bonuses and dlc which is worthless this gen had mostly been about the publishers making as much out of us as they can, thats ok there a buissiness, but some of the shoody tactics theyve employed would not be tollerated in other mediums, so yes totally agree and that brings me back to ea and there mutiplat mass effects, something tells me bioware were more than happy with just the 360 and pc, but no theres dollars in them ps3s regardless of quality

[ncknck]

Guys, PS3 is... different. Nobody can program it efficiently. Devs call Sony stupid. Sony calls devs stupid. No end, deal with it. Reality is, nobody has the time and enough talent to code specifically for ps3.

[Valkyre4]

ncknck wrote...

Guys, PS3 is... different. Nobody can program it efficiently. Devs call Sony stupid. Sony calls devs stupid. No end, deal with it. Reality is, nobody has the time and enough talent to code specifically for ps3.

what now? lol i've been monitoring this industry for years and what you say is simply NOT TRUE. The part about Ps3 being "different" ok I can relate with. But the rest? Not true. A lot of devs program efficiently for it and if they ever called it "stupid" then they had to be the worst businessmen in the history of business...

[Fbh]

ncknck wrote...

Guys, PS3 is... different. Nobody can program it efficiently. Devs call Sony stupid. Sony calls devs stupid. No end, deal with it. Reality is, nobody has the time and enough talent to code specifically for ps3.

Yet we have seen a big increase in good PS3 ports and a lot of multiplatform games that run without much trouble on the system (plus first party games that run great and are among the best looking games on consoles).

Just look at this past year and some of its biggest multiplatform games. Batman Arkham City, Battlefield 3, Dark Souls, Deus Ex:HR, Dragon Age 2 (made by another bioware studio, I know), Dead Space 2, La Noire,  Final Fantasy XIII-2, etc.
I'm NOT saying all this games looked and/or perform better on Ps3, but the differences where acceptable an you couldn't notice them unless you played them both side by side.

So this, "Ps3 is so hard to develop  you just have to deal with horrible ports" thing ended long ago and is, in most cases, no longer a valid excuse.

People act as if some developers  would release games as a special favor to us. It's not like that, even if it's a videogames this is buisness and they are releasing a product for which people pay money

Is it more expensive to put effort into the Ps3 version instead of making it for xbox and then rushing a port??? Of course. But.. so What???. Biowared and EA are not some small studios that have to deal with a small budget and it's not as if Mass Effect was some new indie IP that may not give them any profit.

This is as if I would buy a Ford car in the USA and it runs perfectly. Then I pay even more to buy one in south america (where I live) and it's made out of plastic and brakes in less than a year and when I complain the other consumers would tell me "they use better material for cars we sell in the USA, deal with it", and For wouldn't even give me an answer.

Modifié par Fbh, 04 mars 2012 - 09:33 .

[ncknck]

Valkyre4 wrote...

what now? lol i've been monitoring this industry for years and what you say is simply NOT TRUE. The part about Ps3 being "different" ok I can relate with. But the rest? Not true. A lot of devs program efficiently for it and if they ever called it "stupid" then they had to be the worst businessmen in the history of business...

Yes, this is ultimately what the problem is. Just because it is possible, doesnt mean everybody is gonna do it. Bioware doesnt. Are they to blame for not having the time to program, or is Sony to blame for making such a hardware. Reality shows Sony is to blame, if you remember nvidia's geforce FX fiasco. Was not a bad card too, but.. unique.

Modifié par ncknck, 04 mars 2012 - 09:33 .

[Fbh]

ncknck wrote...

Valkyre4 wrote...

what now? lol i've been monitoring this industry for years and what you say is simply NOT TRUE. The part about Ps3 being "different" ok I can relate with. But the rest? Not true. A lot of devs program efficiently for it and if they ever called it "stupid" then they had to be the worst businessmen in the history of business...

Yes, this is ultimately what the problem is. Just because it is possible, doesnt mean everybody is gonna do it. Bioware doesnt. Are they to blame for not having the time to program, or is Sony to blame for making such a hardware. Reality shows Sony is to blame, if you remember nvidia's geforce FX fiasco. Was not a bad card too, but.. unique.

You make it sound as if someone forced poor bioware to release Mass Effect on Ps3. As if they signed a contract with Sony before they where able to see and work with a Ps3.
They knew how the Ps3 works and they knew what they where capable of doing with so the only one to blame for this **** port is bioware.

Worse of all, when games from other developers have problems, Like Skyrim lag or Twisted metal conection erros. Some developers show interest in solving the problem. David Jaffe was constantly tweeting updates and uploading videoupdates about the online problems. 
Bioware just doesen't give a ****.

[Valkyre4]

ncknck wrote...

Valkyre4 wrote...

what now? lol i've been monitoring this industry for years and what you say is simply NOT TRUE. The part about Ps3 being "different" ok I can relate with. But the rest? Not true. A lot of devs program efficiently for it and if they ever called it "stupid" then they had to be the worst businessmen in the history of business...

Yes, this is ultimately what the problem is. Just because it is possible, doesnt mean everybody is gonna do it. Bioware doesnt. Are they to blame for not having the time to program, or is Sony to blame for making such a hardware. Reality shows Sony is to blame, if you remember nvidia's geforce FX fiasco. Was not a bad card too, but.. unique.

Are you seriously presenting this as an argument? Really?

Bioware are not to blame because they "didnt have the time to program"?? So are we going to blame time now? If that is the case, lets go right ahead and blame the weather as well... or pigeons... or maybe pretzels...

irrelevant... completely irrelevant. If Bioware doesnt have the time to program then thats their problem, a structural one as well. 

By your logic, Bioware could simply release this demo as the complete ME3 experience and then tell you, "yeah... well... we didnt have enough time... you know... that is all we could do with the time we've had... sorry bro..."

Can you understand now how poor your "argument" is on this issue? I cant even consider it an argument in favor of your case/opinion... more like an argument against it...

[MegaSovereign]

Well from my understand, the Ps3 was designed around the idea that both the Cell Processor and the GPU card would work together in rendering the game's graphics. The Unreal Engine 3 is a midware engine designed around the traditional 360/PC, meaning that most PS3 games utilizing this engine don't use the Cell processor to help the graphics card render. Dragon Age 2 used a different engine, one that allowed bioware to off-load specific graphical tasks (like anti-aliasing, for example) to the cell processor, freeing up GPU time.

I'm not a programmer but that's what I think the problem might be. That and something to do with bandwidth limitations on PS3. Anyways, these framerate issues *really* aren't game-breaking. Even the demo was bearable. I think a lot of people are just mad that there isn't platform parity between the console versions. However, the platform you play it on shouldn't really affect your enjoyment of the game...at least in my humble opinion.

Remember folks the grass is always greener on the other side. If we were all 360 owners we'd be complaining about the disc swapping issues and how it's even worse than ME2's..

[druss44121]

Hey guys, I never played Mass Effect 2 on PS3 except for the demo (I was PC for that and wanted to finish out on PC, I was actually the guy who finally got an answer out of Priestly about Origin yes/no). The demo played fine for me, though I heard there were problems in the full game that were then fixed?

Is this true? Were the problems fixed, and what were they specifically? Was it like the ME3 demo where it was mainly cutscenes, or was actual gameplay affected?

Also to the person who mentioned Arkham City is a big open world game, I also agree. As I said, that game has more going on as far as the UE3, so there is no excuse for ME3 to run poorly on the PS3. If it's really so awful, then yes, they should never have released it, but obviously with other games as a benchmark (even just comparing only on PS3 other multiplats to this), ME3 should run flawlessly.

[druss44121]

"Guys, PS3 is... different. Nobody can program it efficiently."

That's NO EXCUSE. This is Unreal Engine 3. As I've outlined, plenty of Unreal Engine 3 games play wonderfully. Even some, like Bioshock 2 which had some muddier textures especially regarding water in PS3 vs. XBOX, played fine. Rage played just as well on the PS3 as the XBOX. GTA4, Red Dead, Just Cause 2, Arkham City, all play amazingly well on the PS3 and open world games are the most ambitious as far as taxing the graphics system. There is no excuse for it, especially since BOTH systems are running very dated tech compared to what modern PCs can do. The XBOX 360 is over 6 years old, and it wasn't top end by PC standards even when released. Unreal Tournament 3 (a game I have for PC) I've seen on the PS3 and it runs fine.

[Valkyre4]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Well from my understand, the Ps3 was designed around the idea that both the Cell Processor and the GPU card would work together in rendering the game's graphics. The Unreal Engine 3 is a midware engine designed around the traditional 360/PC, meaning that most PS3 games utilizing this engine don't use the Cell processor to help the graphics card render. Dragon Age 2 used a different engine, one that allowed bioware to off-load specific graphical tasks (like anti-aliasing, for example) to the cell processor, freeing up GPU time.

I'm not a programmer but that's what I think the problem might be. That and something to do with bandwidth limitations on PS3. Anyways, these framerate issues *really* aren't game-breaking. Even the demo was bearable. I think a lot of people are just mad that there isn't platform parity between the console versions. However, the platform you play it on shouldn't really affect your enjoyment of the game...at least in my humble opinion.

Remember folks the grass is always greener on the other side. If we were all 360 owners we'd be complaining about the disc swapping issues and how it's even worse than ME2's..

best "counter argument" against our complaints so far. and i mean that i am not sarcastic in any way. Yes 360 has its own issues as well as pc with the origin thing. I never said only ps3 users should demand things. Everyone should as long as there is a legitimate reason behind it. What is wrong in making future games even better and to ahow big developers we demand a certain level of quality?

[ncknck]

Valkyre4 wrote...
 
Can you understand now how poor your "argument" is on this issue?

Its not an argument, its reality. Reality, where ME3 framerates suck and users suffer. Throwing the blame back and forth is fun, but will not change it. Like i said, a neverending cycle. If Sony doesnt want to accept that not everyone is an Einstein coder, well it will go down.

Modifié par ncknck, 04 mars 2012 - 10:34 .

[cynicalandbored]

Our problem may be resolved with a day 1 patch or a different one in the future but not disc swapping. So.. at least... that.

[MegaSovereign]

ncknck wrote...

Valkyre4 wrote...
 
Can you understand now how poor your "argument" is on this issue?

Its not an argument, its reality. Reality, where ME3 framerates suck and users suffer. Throwing the blame back and forth is fun, but will not change it. Like i said, a neverending cycle. If Sony doesnt want to accept that not everyone is an Einstein coder, well it will go down.

I love how the first part of what you said was like "this is reality and saying who is at fault is pointless" but then the last sentence was basically saying  "it's Sony's fault."

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 04 mars 2012 - 10:39 .

[ncknck]

Well it was Sony's design decision, they wanted new, now they have to deal with the consequences. No wait, the user has to deal with them.

[Remij]

ncknck wrote...

Well it was Sony's design decision, they wanted new, now they have to deal with the consequences. No wait, the user has to deal with them.

To be fair, it Sony wouldn't have priced the PS3 so high, it would have sold much better, causing developers to develop first and foremost on the PS3.  They kinda botched it.  It's a shame though, cause the PS3 could do much better than this.

[harryandgem]

i read somewere that sony are ditching the cell for ps4 and are making the console similar to a pc, sony know theve contributed to the difficulties, some devs have mastered it and some [rockstar] just cant get the best out of it, but as someone else here quite rightly said ue3 was designed for pc/360 development, some games look great [batman] others not so, whatever happens over the next week i hope those who buy the game enjoy it, im getting it for 360, i was going to buy it 2nd hand as my own personell protest to poor development but its mass effect i cant wait that long.

[druss44121]

Beyond all else I think the biggest problem with the PS3 is RAM... it's got a pathetically low amount of it. The Cell Processors are not a bad idea inherently and indeed some amazing stuff has come out of the PS3 (Uncharted 2 + 3 are some of the best looking games out there) but the lack of RAM is awful, and that (along with bad coding) was partly why Skyrim had so many problems.

In the end I hope the next generation is like a topline PC of RIGHT NOW, and that they are upgradeable. Eventually PCs and consoles I think will merge again, with a console being more like an appendage for the PC. But regardless of all this, and legit concerns regarding the PS3 and its flaws, there's no excuse for Mass Effect 3 which is built on very old tech. It should run better than it does.

[Gigamantis]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Well from my understand, the Ps3 was designed around the idea that both the Cell Processor and the GPU card would work together in rendering the game's graphics. The Unreal Engine 3 is a midware engine designed around the traditional 360/PC, meaning that most PS3 games utilizing this engine don't use the Cell processor to help the graphics card render. Dragon Age 2 used a different engine, one that allowed bioware to off-load specific graphical tasks (like anti-aliasing, for example) to the cell processor, freeing up GPU time.

I'm not a programmer but that's what I think the problem might be. That and something to do with bandwidth limitations on PS3. Anyways, these framerate issues *really* aren't game-breaking. Even the demo was bearable. I think a lot of people are just mad that there isn't platform parity between the console versions. However, the platform you play it on shouldn't really affect your enjoyment of the game...at least in my humble opinion.

Remember folks the grass is always greener on the other side. If we were all 360 owners we'd be complaining about the disc swapping issues and how it's even worse than ME2's..

At the end of the day I think most people would prefer disc swapping to overtly stressing the consoles GPU to the point where it might start hard crashing your system.  It's the PS3's fault for cheaping out on the GPU and Bioware's fault for not adjusting the engine for the PS3's in-built limitations, but this is more than just an immersion issue.  This kind of thing consistently happening is going to shorten the lifespan of our PS3's. 

Hopefully it's not that bad, but I'll be waiting for feedback and others would be smart to do the same.