220 réponses à ce sujet

[aznsoisauce]

Squadmates important to the main plot

• Ashley/Kaidan
• Liara

Without them, Shepard wouldn't be on a mission to save the galaxy. Everyone else needed Shepard in order for them to be the important and influential people they turn out to be by the events of Mass Effect 3.

[AgitatedLemon]

aznsoisauce wrote...

Squadmates important to the main plot

• Ashley/Kaidan

wut

[aznsoisauce]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...

Squadmates important to the main plot

• Ashley/Kaidan

wut

I was actually debating whether or not to include them. The only reason I did was for that whole "oooh lemme touch the Beacon" moment before Shepard pulls them off of it. That moment kicks the whole story off.

Plus that whole Virmire mess. Just...ugh.

EDIT
And what is the deal with all this Garrus being cool stuff? I may be a fan but he always seemed like an obnoxious dick to me.

Modifié par aznsoisauce, 18 février 2012 - 05:16 .

[AgitatedLemon]

aznsoisauce wrote...

AgitatedLemon wrote...

aznsoisauce wrote...

Squadmates important to the main plot

• Ashley/Kaidan

wut

I was actually debating whether or not to include them. The only reason I did was for that whole "oooh lemme touch the Beacon" moment before Shepard pulls them off of it. That moment kicks the whole story off.

Plus that whole Virmire mess. Just...ugh.

I'd argue Shepard being on Eden Prime kicked the story off.

edit: The "GARRUS IS A COOL GUY, REALLY!" was a joke. I was using that to express how I felt Bioware was handling his being forced on the player.

Modifié par AgitatedLemon, 18 février 2012 - 05:17 .

[aznsoisauce]

Then I guess that leaves us with Liara.

Damn.

[AgitatedLemon]

aznsoisauce wrote...

Then I guess that leaves us with Liara.

Damn.

Ehh. I don't mind Liara so much (On the basis that she isn't forced upon the player). I still don't think she needs to be a ME3 squadmate though, being the Shadow Broker and all.

I'll just leave this here

[scpulley]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

scpulley wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

kainee wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Han Solo was introduced in the first installment of a trilogy. This thread is about people introduced in Part 2 of one; Lando Calrissian fits the analogy better.

Now, refresh my memory; did Lando go to Endor with Luke, Han and Leia?

No but he's with them to rescue Han during the first part of the film and he's leading the assault on the Death Star with the Milenium Falcon.
He's not replaced by a random guy, he has a significant role, and he has a fair amount of screentime.

The whole analogy sucks. Video games are an interactive medium, what a film series did or did not do is irrelevant because the story is entirely dictated to the viewer and cannot be changed (except by the creators).

Was it possible for the viewer to kill of Lando in Empire? Could we decide that Darth Vader's force choke killed him instead of Darth stopping? No, we couldn't.

People, what films, TV, and books do is not applicable to what games do, especially not ones like ME. As the industry is starting to figure out, not everything those other mediums have got figured out to a science is applicable. Video games are an evolution of those mediums and there are things about video games that change how you approach developing for them.

I've said it before, whether you can kill them apparently matters because of Garrus and Tali carry over. If it doesn't matter for them, why does it matter for the other characters? I understand movies are not as interactive as a video game will be, but story wise the same rules apply. Bioware of all people I would hope see this since they have historically been excellent story tellers first, gameplay mechanics sort of sitting well behind that. Waving away characters you put a lot of time developing previously is bad story telling, it doesn't matter if it's a movie or video game, the idea is the same. 

And I've already pointed out in this thread why the only logical choice Bioware could make was to bring back only Garrus and Tali. They knew that, because of design decisions they had made in ME2, they were going to ****** people off no matter what they did. They couldn't have 16 characters because they couldn't even get 10 to work properly.

You may believe that it was stupid for them to bring in all new characters for ME2 and to make ME2 about a suicide mission. That's a perfectly valid opinion. But Bioware made that decision, good or bad, and now they have to deal with the fallout.

If they knew that that couldn't bring back everybody then they had to make a choice. They had to decide who to bring back and who to give cameos. Of all the characters in both games, Garrus and Tali are the most popular. Of the remaining characters, VS and Liara deserved to be brought back the most because they weren't available in ME2. None of the rest of the possible squadmates had as large or as passionate of fanbases.

If Bioware knew they were going to ****** people off because of past decisions, the only logical thing is to minimize the number of people. They picked Garrus, Tali, VS, and Liara to return because those five characters had the largest fanbases.

You have a right to be pissed. But don't willfully ignore the things that explain why you had to be pissed.

BS I 'had' to be pissed. I don't think i wouldbe as pissed if we were forced into having new characters or if we had a choice for 1 or 2 slots,not forced. They very easily could have had 2 slots changes based on  who you chose to bring with you. Forcing choices may be easier coding wise for them, but it doesn't mean it's not a ****** poor way to cut corners.

[BlueMagitek]

SpottySpec wrote...

Why does a character have to be relevant to the plot to be valid? There are plenty of other characters who aren't relevant and I don't see that being used against them...
I mean seriously if you don't like a squadmate don't do their loyalty mission and make them bite it during the suicide mission! I did it plenty of times XD

Though I have to agree with previous comments. I think it would have been more interesting to pick two of the ME2 crowd to come with you (even more so if you romanced them) rather than giving us these all new ones. It's THOSE guys who are taking the ME2 peeps slots, not Garrus and Tali. I'm more annoyed about them being added than characters who have been in the series for the whole deal being available. ME2 should have been the cut off for adding new characters to the trilogy, unless they were just gonna add maybe one more like the special squadmate.

If they're required, they should have some plot reason for needing them.  Garrus isn't needed for the SM when you have Jacob & Miranda, and outside of the Thanix cannon (that you don't know he has), there isn't a reason for needing him (like Mordin and the Swarm 'repellent').

[gearseffect]

saracen16 wrote...

I'm pretty sure BioWare will be open to DLC post-game for individual characters, but it's possible that some of them will have their stories finished during the campaign, so...

I know some the characters are having their stories finished, and at least 2 of them are going to suck @ss from what I've read It's gonna be sickening. So then I'm getting screw becuase those characters will get a sh!tty deal.


With what I saw from Samara in the leak and now that I've vented it out SHE would be a great choice for DLC.

Beacuse the near kiss thing is really one of my biggest cliff hangers.

[AgitatedLemon]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

OP, you have to think of Mass Effect as a dinner to understand.

Garrus, Liara, Wrex, Tali, Kaidan/Ashley are the full meal.

Thane,Grunt, Samara, Legion, all them fools, were a side dish.

When you think about it, you don't Neeeeeed the side dish cause you got the full meal!
*bows* c:

I don't know if this was just a poor joke or not, but no.

Just, no.

[GuardianAngel470]

scpulley wrote...

BS I 'had' to be pissed. I don't think i wouldbe as pissed if we were forced into having new characters or if we had a choice for 1 or 2 slots,not forced. They very easily could have had 2 slots changes based on  who you chose to bring with you. Forcing choices may be easier coding wise for them, but it doesn't mean it's not a ****** poor way to cut corners.

How long have you been on the forums? Have you not noticed all the threads complaining about this or that? Have you not seen how many people are perfectly willing to demand this and demand that, never recognizing what they actually have?

That isn't BS that people would be pissed. If Bioware had simply scrapped bringing back anyone Liara fans would be on here DEMANDING an answer for why Tali and Garrus fans got two games to play with their characters (I don't just suspect this. I know this. They've already done it for ME2).

VS fans would ask the same thing, with the addition of "Horizon was the best we get?!" question threads.

And then you have the people like the OP. They are already complaining that they don't get the ME2 squad back so nothing would change. They still wouldn't get them back.

They simply could not have that many characters and give each of them the attention they deserved. We've already seen this: Garrus' endless calibrations being the most notable example. Neither Kasumi nor Zaeed had any on-ship dialog and even Tali had very little unique dialog on the Normandy.

What you need to understand is that regardless if Bioware made 6 character slots or 16, if they tried to make all characters available they had to make ALL of their backgrounds, dialogs, and unique stories. Even if all you ever see are Tali, Garrus, Liara, Wrex, VS, and Mordin the entire cast of characters need to be created.

This isn't just a coding limitation. This is an entire team limitation. Character designers, writers, coders, artists, sound guys, everyone needs to be involved in that sort of endeavor.

Would you have gladly sacrificed important story missions, diverse choices, and in-depth consequences for the sake of having the option to have you whole team back? Because that is what it would have taken. Again, we've seen the proof of this in the way the Collector threat was handled.

Regardless, the BSN will ALWAYS complain. The names of the complainers may change, the subject of complaint may differ, but there will always be someone on the BSN complaining.

[Sir Bum]

Because it would be a massive waste of time and resources to bring back everyone, plus people from ME1. In most cases, I should think at least two teammates are dead. That's a pretty big waste of time and money, considering how much things cost these days. Not to mention, how could you possibly fit all of them into the story and expect them to be used (Eg: Taken into combat)?

[WidePaul]

I can't remember the exact quote, but didn't Bioware say that there would be satisfactory conclusions for all the LIs? How then can you have a satisfactory "happy ending" with Miranda/Jacob/Jack/Thane, etc, when they are only in the game for a specific mission and a bit of dialogue, but we're stuck with the VS/Liara/Garrus/Tali pretty much throughout the whole game, so will have much more interaction, so a better ending? Don't get me wrong, I like Garrus etc and have multiple playthroughs of 1 and 2 with pretty much every Li combo to see all the reactions, but my personal favouriye is Miranda, and if I'd known that most of the 2nd game LIs were gonna get so little screen time, i probably wpouldn't have bothered romancing them in the first place as it seems pretty pointless now.

[GuardianAngel470]

WidePaul wrote...

I can't remember the exact quote, but didn't Bioware say that there would be satisfactory conclusions for all the LIs? How then can you have a satisfactory "happy ending" with Miranda/Jacob/Jack/Thane, etc, when they are only in the game for a specific mission and a bit of dialogue, but we're stuck with the VS/Liara/Garrus/Tali pretty much throughout the whole game, so will have much more interaction, so a better ending? Don't get me wrong, I like Garrus etc and have multiple playthroughs of 1 and 2 with pretty much every Li combo to see all the reactions, but my personal favouriye is Miranda, and if I'd known that most of the 2nd game LIs were gonna get so little screen time, i probably wpouldn't have bothered romancing them in the first place as it seems pretty pointless now.

Small point but satisfactory=/=equivalent. No that isn't fair, but at the same time we don't really know what Bioware have done for the non-ME1 romances so the healthiest course of action is to not get worked up.

[Gonder]

When it comes to beating the Reapers, all you really need is Garrus Vakarian. But i can see what you mean.

[TheSweetGirl]

The only thing we can do is wait to see what happens in ME3. Hopefully, everyone gets a fair slice.

If not, then Bioware may be in for a very rude awakening. XDDD

[DeadpoolBub]

This thread is funny because there's so many salty people in here. I love how you guys hate Tali & Garrus because they're the most popular characters. I agree that it's BS that not one ME2 squaddie is becoming a full time squadmate (especially for Legion & Grunt*), but get over it you cry babies or don't buy the game. Simple as that.

*You think with Legion playing a major role in the game, he'd be a squadmate. & you'd think Grunt would be in here too since Shepard is his battlemaster & whatnot.

[Oneiropolos]

Meh, without being specific so people aren't spoiled, some unavoidable endings for characters are only satisfactory if you like tragedy.  I'd have preferred not to even have a quest with them and only have a visit where there's a chance for a happily ever after when the credits roll over being powerless. We all know there'll be loss, it's a war. Loss happens, and it sucks, but I like to feel like there's at least a choice over who that loss happens to in a game. I certainly can't control it at all in real life, I don't need a game rendering me as helpless as I am in real life to save people's lives. I think that's why I ended up cancelling and am I just waiting it out to see what reviews and other fans say.

Modifié par Oneiropolos, 20 février 2012 - 02:23 .

[GuardianAngel470]

Oneiropolos wrote...

*snip* 

I love this forum's definition of spoilers. I mean, a lot of people are perfectly willing to say things like this as if they've somehow avoided spoiling the game for people. It's baffling.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 20 février 2012 - 02:30 .

[scpulley]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

scpulley wrote...

BS I 'had' to be pissed. I don't think i wouldbe as pissed if we were forced into having new characters or if we had a choice for 1 or 2 slots,not forced. They very easily could have had 2 slots changes based on  who you chose to bring with you. Forcing choices may be easier coding wise for them, but it doesn't mean it's not a ****** poor way to cut corners.

How long have you been on the forums? Have you not noticed all the threads complaining about this or that? Have you not seen how many people are perfectly willing to demand this and demand that, never recognizing what they actually have?

That isn't BS that people would be pissed. If Bioware had simply scrapped bringing back anyone Liara fans would be on here DEMANDING an answer for why Tali and Garrus fans got two games to play with their characters (I don't just suspect this. I know this. They've already done it for ME2).

VS fans would ask the same thing, with the addition of "Horizon was the best we get?!" question threads.

And then you have the people like the OP. They are already complaining that they don't get the ME2 squad back so nothing would change. They still wouldn't get them back.

They simply could not have that many characters and give each of them the attention they deserved. We've already seen this: Garrus' endless calibrations being the most notable example. Neither Kasumi nor Zaeed had any on-ship dialog and even Tali had very little unique dialog on the Normandy.

What you need to understand is that regardless if Bioware made 6 character slots or 16, if they tried to make all characters available they had to make ALL of their backgrounds, dialogs, and unique stories. Even if all you ever see are Tali, Garrus, Liara, Wrex, VS, and Mordin the entire cast of characters need to be created.

This isn't just a coding limitation. This is an entire team limitation. Character designers, writers, coders, artists, sound guys, everyone needs to be involved in that sort of endeavor.

Would you have gladly sacrificed important story missions, diverse choices, and in-depth consequences for the sake of having the option to have you whole team back? Because that is what it would have taken. Again, we've seen the proof of this in the way the Collector threat was handled.

Regardless, the BSN will ALWAYS complain. The names of the complainers may change, the subject of complaint may differ, but there will always be someone on the BSN complaining.

You missed my point completely. What I'm primarily miffed about is we are getting NEW characters instead of having those slots go to already existing characters. I don't mind 1, but 3? Really that was NOT needed and yeah, when we are having 3 new characters then characters from previous games are vanished away to a mission or two to 'wrap up' their story when they were LI? Sorry, that's not really going to make much sense to me or obviously a lot of other people. It was unnessisary to do that. I don't have to like it, it's not so much a complaint at this point as shaking my head at the dumb logic used to give us 3 new characters no one asked for.

[Oneiropolos]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I love this forum's definition of spoilers. I mean, a lot of people are perfectly willing to say things like this as if they've somehow avoided spoiling the game for people. It's baffling.

A spoiler is usually defined as specific information that would give away a definite ending. Going "Squadmates can die" in a game that had a previous game where EVERYONE could die didn't strike me as spoiler. But since you quoted the entire post, I -can't- edit it if you feel it's been too spoilery in order to save other people. Because even editing my post would be pointless as it was quoted in the entirety. I'll go ahead and try to edit my own post to be more lean, but I can't change yours. 

[GuardianAngel470]

Oneiropolos wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

I love this forum's definition of spoilers. I mean, a lot of people are perfectly willing to say things like this as if they've somehow avoided spoiling the game for people. It's baffling.

A spoiler is usually defined as specific information that would give away a definite ending. Going "Squadmates can die" in a game that had a previous game where EVERYONE could die didn't strike me as spoiler. But since you quoted the entire post, I -can't- edit it if you feel it's been too spoilery in order to save other people. Because even editing my post would be pointless as it was quoted in the entirety. I'll go ahead and try to edit my own post to be more lean, but I can't change yours. 

I'll change mine if you change yours.

[GuardianAngel470]

scpulley wrote...

You missed my point completely. What I'm primarily miffed about is we are getting NEW characters instead of having those slots go to already existing characters. I don't mind 1, but 3? Really that was NOT needed and yeah, when we are having 3 new characters then characters from previous games are vanished away to a mission or two to 'wrap up' their story when they were LI? Sorry, that's not really going to make much sense to me or obviously a lot of other people. It was unnessisary to do that. I don't have to like it, it's not so much a complaint at this point as shaking my head at the dumb logic used to give us 3 new characters no one asked for.

I still don't see how this is the same as what you said before but whatevs. Though I agree that it doesn't really seem to make sense why they would need to bring in so many characters when they had 16 existing ones to choose from, I'm guessing this has something to do with the fact that about 11 of the ME2 squad could die and still allow a player to import.

I mean, if you look at it that way, only four characters can for sure be brought back. Liara, VS, and Wrex. Even with that one single character that is necessary to succeed in ME2 you only have a squad of 4 characters (because VS technically counts as one character in this instance).

So they could have simply left it at that but if they wanted Wrex to do something else in the story the squad would only be 3 people strong. Three specialists strong in some cases.

Bioware could have done it your way and it would have been a satisfying consequence for player action in ME2 but then they would probably have to balance all of ME3 to accomodate the limitation. I figure they probably just made a design choice and went from there.