220 réponses à ce sujet

[ThatDancingTurian]

scpulley wrote...

What I'm primarily miffed about is we are getting NEW characters instead of having those slots go to already existing characters. I don't mind 1, but 3? Really that was NOT needed and yeah, when we are having 3 new characters then characters from previous games are vanished away to a mission or two to 'wrap up' their story when they were LI? Sorry, that's not really going to make much sense to me or obviously a lot of other people. It was unnessisary to do that. I don't have to like it, it's not so much a complaint at this point as shaking my head at the dumb logic used to give us 3 new characters no one asked for.

I agree. What's the point of new characters, especially new LIs? New players don't need them because old LIs would be new to them. Old players don't want them because in many cases they're taking the place of their preferred LIs. If they just wanted a new image to show to potential buyers who didn't respond to the original character designs, well Ash,
Kaidan, Jack and Liara all have new looks. If they needed a 'plot exposition guy', couldn't that have been the VS? If they're really so concerned with making the game something you can jump right into, then the new players shouldn't be able to know the difference between an old character and a new one anyway.

I wish we'd at least have the opportunity to buy the ME2 squaddies as DLC, but no, apparently those are going to be new characters as well. :/

[gearseffect]

Because we as humans are never happy and have opinions, and BW thought that leaving characters like Thane, Jack, and Samara off the team while throwing the new Shadow Broker on the team was a perfectly logical idea given the power and resources of the Shadow Broker it's all fine it she dies.

And BW not mentioning and resolving things between Shepard and Samara is a good idea to them.

[frylock23]

Honestly, the ME2 LIs, at least the femShep ones had some great big red flags at least to me. They basically screamed "NOT SERIOUS"!!!

Jacob - It's basically assumed that Hale's voice acting and the Jacob's brush off are just bad voice work and bad writing. What if they were intentional? What if your femShep really is basically throwing herself at Jacob like Snooki after a night on the town and Jacob really is brushing her off like the slightly embarrassed pro he seems to be? If that's so, then he finally just gives in and takes the free sex she's offering. Certainly, he never gives her the depth of discussion and introspection she gets from Kaidan and the Cheezy prize line and heavy risk thing? Well, it's about as serious as anything else you'd expect from the episode of ME Jersey Shore your game just became. There's no reason at all to think this is going to carry on beyond a cheap one night hook up.

Thane - This one might have carried on beyond ME2 into something more serious. But let's get real. You romanced someone who's terminally ill, and if you don't believe that the writing team is going to go all sunshine and roses for one ending then you certainly shouldn't believe that they're going to cure terminal illness just so you can continue this one relationship. Please!

Garrus - Of all the three, you have the most right to expect something lasting out of this, but they pretty much lifted the terms of this arrangement straight out of Farscape. This is the same type of casual sexual arrangement the Peacekeepers have. They use sex as just a different way to blow of steam before and between battles. Apparently, so do Turians. Shep and Garrus have a good deal of mutual respect, liking and camraderie to work with though, so this arrangement might continue, but there wasn't any hint of attraction in ME1 to build off of. Just remember, Garrus explained that it's a technique to ease tension before battle if your hopes are dashed.

Now, I didn't play any manSheps to know is those hookups had the same air of "temporary" that the femShep hookups had, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

[demifiend]

Forgive my ignorance, but which character is supposed to be VS?
I am also perplexed as to the complete and total lack of Thane in this game. I haven't seen a snippet of him in a trailer, as we have with Legion, Samara, Jacob and Miranda, or seen leaked art book images as we have with Jack, or interacted with in-game like we have with Mordin. He is simply... gone. I recall a passionate fandom for him, including the "Cure Thane" micro-movement that got at least a nod in Bioware's Facebok, and even being a cover character. He was also the only member of a new race represented on your team in ME2, and now he is just... poof! Gone. That is disappointing, especially since we are getting one of our precious few character slots getting clogged with Vega, the Gears of War cast mate that nobody asked for.

[Ghost]

I hate Bioware's decision to keep Mass Effect 1 characters over 2 especially since most of the characters in me1 aren't as interesting or likeable as me2 For example.... Would you prefer Legion a more advanced type of geth, Samara an asari justicar (nuff said), Thane a slowly dying assassin (ESPECIALLY Thane since bioware revealed what would happen to him), Miranda a perfectly made human, even kasumi(even though this is DLC char. is leaps and bounds over what a typical quarian (Tali) has to offer and there still some me2 char. that I didn't mention who would be so much better.

[staindgrey]

Honestly, I think people are getting too worked up on the "squadmate" angle.

If I have a choice between a smaller permanent squad and a greater amount of individual interactions with older characters or a bigger squad and less to do with them, I'd choose the former without hesitation.

Plus, think about it. The appeal of having a squadmate is the Normandy conversations. Haven't we already talked some of them to death? What more can we possibly find out about Jack if she's on our ship again? That she's even more of a stereotype than we originally thought?

Bring in some new blood, only keep the essential meat.

[gearseffect]

staindgrey wrote...

Honestly, I think people are getting too worked up on the "squadmate" angle.

If I have a choice between a smaller permanent squad and a greater amount of individual interactions with older characters or a bigger squad and less to do with them, I'd choose the former without hesitation.

Plus, think about it. The appeal of having a squadmate is the Normandy conversations. Haven't we already talked some of them to death? What more can we possibly find out about Jack if she's on our ship again? That she's even more of a stereotype than we originally thought?

Bring in some new blood, only keep the essential meat.

Yes the main reason we want full time Normandy Squad is the conversations we can have with them.

I Loved Jack and I don't know how you figure she's a stereotype, I wanted Jack back for a big reason and my reason was I liked her very much and I felt Jack's character needed a friend and some sort of stabillity to her help her with her issues.

Given that most my Shepards had been rather close with Jack and wanted to do whatever to help her, given she won't be back I'm upset, but I'm P!ssed that BW has fast tracked Jack's character devolpment by what should have taken year(s) into a few months.

SO yes.

Further more keeping the essential meat? WTF? What do you consider essential meat?

Garrus: since ME1 Garrus has been one of the least interesting characters to talk to on your ship. He really is just there and cool in combat times. He adds little in form of conversations and interesting characters.


Liara: was cool but she is not the same character any more and has changed too much for me to see her as the same Liara I loved in ME1. After reading the comic Redemption I don't think there is a way for Liara to redeem herself and character with how she chose to spend 2 years looking for revenge on the Shadow Broker for Feron who is agrueably the biggest traiter and lies half truths person in ME. Liara was nieve and Feron played her for a fool at every turn. For her to care about some one like that is either a massive case OCD and unhealthy attachement to people she just meets, or a case of BW trying to get her in every game and alter her personality in huge ways to give her a big role.

Wrex: Love the dude but he won't be back full time, and I wouldn't want him back he needs to be seen leading the Krogan to be the big Krogan King he is.

Tali: I never liked this character and Udina forces me to take her along in ME1. In ME2 I get stuck with the bucket head again, and in ME3 I am stuck with the stupid Bucket Head again.

VS Ashley or Kaidan: Yes bring them back this time. Ash's has been rather turned into a more Miranda look all ****ted out and her tight fitting close riding up her @ss crack in a Miranda style not Ashley, But my Shepards have unresolved issues with their VS Ashley.

Samara: Her conversations were among the best in any of the ME games and her character is so interesting and my Shepard has some unresolved issues here too with Samara.

Thane: a much cooler Bad@ss than Garrus whose conversations were way more interesting than Garrus' ever were.

What you consider "Essential Meat" is not the same as what everyone else veiws as Essential to their Shepard and ME story, because I sure as hell don't consider the Bucket head Tali, and Garrus, essential. Liara I see as too esaential to have in combat.

Good for you your getting your beloved ME1 sqaud back but many of my essential characters are ME2 only and will get either side lined, fast tracked, or just a glorafied cameo.

[Spanky Magoo]

I have not read the leak so I dont know the specifics but here are my thoughts.

Vega Is not a Krogan, No matter how much bioware tries to make him a suitable replacement he will always be fred from scooby doo in a big dumb gorilla suit.

Second fighting Cerberus and not having Miranda, who has knowledge of their inner workings and is responsible for shepard being alive at all and a LI, makes no sense to me. Sure she may not be every ones cup of tea but she certainly has more plot relevance than Garrus. At least the prior connection to cerberus would have made her presence on the new normandy interesting. A missed opportunity IMO.

Im disappointed in the squad as a ME2 fan and will never understand why they decided to screw over the me2 squad but, Bioware covered the bases.

VS for alliance connection and continuance of arc. Check
Green Rookie to ask stupid questions (and look stupid too lol). Check
Liara to be the sexy alien with smarts (for those new to the series) and to finish her arc/romance. Check
Tali for quarian connection and fan-service. Check
Garrus for fan-service. Check

im not going to comment on the spoiler squaddies as I dont know how they will contribute to the story and will remain skeptical.

[SmartBase]

Obvious answer is obvious, poor writing choices were made during ME2 and now there's practically an entire replaceable (temp?) squad in the third game with more bad writing compounding the problem.

[Masked Slasher]

I try and avoid these forums when a new ME game gets close, but curiosity got the better of me this time around.

I never even considered that the ME2 squad wouldn't be fulltime crew in ME3 so I'm completely disappointed right now.

Not trying to be all doom and gloom, but I came to love the ME2 characters more than the originals.  I always made it so Jack, Miranda, Mordin and Samara survived any and all suicide missions becuase I wanted them to be by my side in ME3.  

While I'm still pumped for the game, this has definitely knocked my personal expectations down a little bit.  Makes me despise Vega even more.  At first I was just amused/disinterested by the generic/bland character design ripped right from GoW.  Now that BW forced him into the game over old favorites, well that's just a real bummer of a decision.  

Modifié par Masked Slasher, 22 février 2012 - 05:12 .

[gearseffect]

God I get sick of the Miranda-rizers and they're attitude of "if your fighting Cerberus Miranda should be with you" Dudes you know Miranda didn't know much about TIM and Cerberus outside of the Lazarus Project right? Next Miranda is not special because she Met TIM in person, Paul Grayson had met with TIM in Person on several occasions before he turned on them. Kia Leng has met with TIM personally many times. Miranda don't really know jack outside of her own cell.

EDI probably knows more about Cerberus than Miri ever would.

Next the Plot Relevance thing bugs me if a squadie has so much plot Relevance than they should be off the squad full time, and stick to that area where they can be used to their fullest and given more Story Gut Punches.

Mordin, Wrex, Miranda, all have huge ties to subplots Mordin has STG Genophage, Wrex has Genophage and uniting the Krogan and Krogan King, Miranda has Cerberus ties that she may not have stayed with Shepard, given all TIM knows of her sister and her Father was a big Ceberus backer at one time, keeping her off the team makes sense to the character.

Legion where are we gonna meet another Geth to be Shepard's Ambassador oh wait they are all linked keep Legion so we can witness his Individual personalty develop.

Liara is the new Shadow Broker and should not be put in a combative role.

God Miranda-rizers seem to have that holier than thou personality and perfect but not perfect sh!t just like Miri

[Ghost]

Masked Slasher wrote...

I try and avoid these forums when a new ME game gets close, but curiosity got the better of me this time around.

I never even considered that the ME2 squad wouldn't be fulltime crew in ME3 so I'm completely disappointed right now.

Not trying to be all doom and gloom, but I came to love the ME2 characters more than the originals.  I always made it so Jack, Miranda, Mordin and Samara survived any and all suicide missions becuase I wanted them to be by my side in ME3.  

While I'm still pumped for the game, this has definitely knocked my personal expectations down a little bit.  Makes me despise Vega even more.  At first I was just amused/disinterested by the generic/bland character design ripped right from GoW.  Now that BW forced him into the game over old favorites, well that's just a real bummer of a decision.  

I think Vega is more bland than any of the GoW charaters

[Spanky Magoo]

gearseffect wrote...

God I get sick of the Miranda-rizers and they're attitude of "if your fighting Cerberus Miranda should be with you" Dudes you know Miranda didn't know much about TIM and Cerberus outside of the Lazarus Project right? Next Miranda is not special because she Met TIM in person, Paul Grayson had met with TIM in Person on several occasions before he turned on them. Kia Leng has met with TIM personally many times. Miranda don't really know jack outside of her own cell.

EDI probably knows more about Cerberus than Miri ever would.

Next the Plot Relevance thing bugs me if a squadie has so much plot Relevance than they should be off the squad full time, and stick to that area where they can be used to their fullest and given more Story Gut Punches.

Mordin, Wrex, Miranda, all have huge ties to subplots Mordin has STG Genophage, Wrex has Genophage and uniting the Krogan and Krogan King, Miranda has Cerberus ties that she may not have stayed with Shepard, given all TIM knows of her sister and her Father was a big Ceberus backer at one time, keeping her off the team makes sense to the character.

Legion where are we gonna meet another Geth to be Shepard's Ambassador oh wait they are all linked keep Legion so we can witness his Individual personalty develop.

Liara is the new Shadow Broker and should not be put in a combative role.

God Miranda-rizers seem to have that holier than thou personality and perfect but not perfect sh!t just like Miri

Tali has the Quarian/Geth thing and shes a permanent squaddie so the plot relevance thing doesnt apply.

If Miranda doesnt know much about cerberus outside of the Lazarus cell then why would TIM be interested in betraying her to her father seeing as how in ME3 he has bigger fish to fry so to speak.

I can see where you are coming from but out of the ME2 squad as I see it Miranda being the one in charge of bringing back shepard and being an being a former officer in a now overtly hostile faction seems to at least give her as much of a reason to be there as any of the confirmed squadmates. 

That being said I would be happy with just one of me2 squaddies even jacob just for some cerberus/alliance tension.  

[double02]

Because nobody likes them! Is that so hard to understand!?? I kid, I kid..

[MegaBadExample]

It could be worst. Ya'll could've romanced the VS.

Just look what bioware did to them.

[gearseffect]

Spanky Magoo wrote...

gearseffect wrote...

God I get sick of the Miranda-rizers and they're attitude of "if your fighting Cerberus Miranda should be with you" Dudes you know Miranda didn't know much about TIM and Cerberus outside of the Lazarus Project right? Next Miranda is not special because she Met TIM in person, Paul Grayson had met with TIM in Person on several occasions before he turned on them. Kia Leng has met with TIM personally many times. Miranda don't really know jack outside of her own cell.

EDI probably knows more about Cerberus than Miri ever would.

Next the Plot Relevance thing bugs me if a squadie has so much plot Relevance than they should be off the squad full time, and stick to that area where they can be used to their fullest and given more Story Gut Punches.

Mordin, Wrex, Miranda, all have huge ties to subplots Mordin has STG Genophage, Wrex has Genophage and uniting the Krogan and Krogan King, Miranda has Cerberus ties that she may not have stayed with Shepard, given all TIM knows of her sister and her Father was a big Ceberus backer at one time, keeping her off the team makes sense to the character.

Legion where are we gonna meet another Geth to be Shepard's Ambassador oh wait they are all linked keep Legion so we can witness his Individual personalty develop.

Liara is the new Shadow Broker and should not be put in a combative role.

God Miranda-rizers seem to have that holier than thou personality and perfect but not perfect sh!t just like Miri

Tali has the Quarian/Geth thing and shes a permanent squaddie so the plot relevance thing doesnt apply.

If Miranda doesnt know much about cerberus outside of the Lazarus cell then why would TIM be interested in betraying her to her father seeing as how in ME3 he has bigger fish to fry so to speak.

I can see where you are coming from but out of the ME2 squad as I see it Miranda being the one in charge of bringing back shepard and being an being a former officer in a now overtly hostile faction seems to at least give her as much of a reason to be there as any of the confirmed squadmates. 

That being said I would be happy with just one of me2 squaddies even jacob just for some cerberus/alliance tension.  

Yes I know Tali has the Geth/Quarians sub plot, but really I just don't think she is an essential to that plot, Legion is the only Geth to have known dealings with organics and Tali well she is just your normal Quarian.

Now this whole Miranda issue and why would TIM hunt her down when he has bigger fish to fry Simple He is known to be verry Petty and if you've crossed him he will make sure ya don't get off free.


Now onto the Miranda being a great useful source on Cerberus on the squad.

If Miranda were in the squad full time with all the set backs and losses Cerberus took in ME Retrabution novel she wouldn't know jack about it anymore. What she knew or what access she had would be gone and not to mention that Cerberus would be completly unrecognizable from what she knew of it.

Grayson took what info he had on Cerberus from when he worked with them and what new info he had gathered in his 2 years of going Rogue and used it to help Anderson and Kaylee do massive damage to Cerberus.

Now if Miranda goes rogue with Shep the info she had is likely useless given much of Cerberus was destroyed by Grayson serving up Cerberus on a silver platter. The damage to Cerberus was so bad that TIM said in Retribution it would take Cerberus years to fully recover and be at the level it had been, unless......  other sources could be used, hence the army or Greysons maybe and indoctranation.

If Miranda don't go back to Cerberus her knownlege is bassicly useless considering Grayson already took what I'm guessing Miranda would know and turned it over and than the Turians took Cerberus apart everything from, high value targets, locations of interest, inside sources, Cerberus, Spys, Agents, and big Backers all taken out of action by Grayson.

If Miranda goes back to Cerberus or leaves to go back it works so much better for the plot and as a great way in. What Info she has or help she may be to bring Cerberus down would be best used outside of the Squad,
Keeping her off the squad lets her be used to her full Life and Death
Epicness of the Cerberus Plot line and her own plot line.

Otherwise she is just there to be there, take her off the squad her role can be so much bigger in the plot much like Wrex, Mordin, and Legion. Yes BW can use random person but it will not be as effective and dramatic, if they use a believable character the player knows already and has a history with.

[AgitatedLemon]

gearseffect wrote...

God I get sick of the Miranda-rizers and they're attitude of "if your fighting Cerberus Miranda should be with you" Dudes you know Miranda didn't know much about TIM and Cerberus outside of the Lazarus Project right? Next Miranda is not special because she Met TIM in person, Paul Grayson had met with TIM in Person on several occasions before he turned on them. Kia Leng has met with TIM personally many times. Miranda don't really know jack outside of her own cell.

Miranda was TIM's former 2IC, actually.

EDI probably knows more about Cerberus than Miri ever would.

Congratulations, Captain Obvious. A Cerberus database AI knowing more than a person?

Next the Plot Relevance thing bugs me if a squadie has so much plot Relevance than they should be off the squad full time, and stick to that area where they can be used to their fullest and given more Story Gut Punches.

Like Liara, Tali, the VS, and Prothy, right?

Mordin, Wrex, Miranda, all have huge ties to subplots Mordin has STG Genophage, Wrex has Genophage and uniting the Krogan and Krogan King, Miranda has Cerberus ties that she may not have stayed with Shepard, given all TIM knows of her sister and her Father was a big Ceberus backer at one time, keeping her off the team makes sense to the character.

Liara is the Shadow Broker. That is all.

Liara is the new Shadow Broker and should not be put in a combative role.

Oh look, you disproved your own point. Thanks.

God Miranda-rizers seem to have that holier than thou personality and perfect but not perfect sh!t just like Miri

I'll let the ignorance of this statement speak for itself.

[gearseffect]

@ Lemon it's really nice you took the time to cut a past my quotes and use them in your own context instead of just my whole F*cuking thing so it is there in it's entirety and complete.

Next Miri is not Cerberus' or TIM's 2nd in command, TIM is Cerberus, Miranda was just the 2nd in Command of Lazarus.

The fact that some people seem to fail to grasp that some of the characters can have a much bigger role and impact on the plot if they are not on squad full time is.... I won't say it I don't want to P!ss some people off by saying it.

The characters are a big draw in the game but they are also story telling tools. Plot boards to be used to further the story. I

By taking certain characters off the full time squad they can be used to better tell the story and help the plot unfold in a more natural way.

I like Miranda off the squad and going back to Cerberus her doing that keeps Miranda true to her character by ensuring her sisters safety and at the same time allows her to have a decent sized role in taking down the New Re-Purposed and upgraded Cerberus, if someone out of left like say um Bob Knob ends up a turn coat and helps Shepard take Cerberus down from the inside and by doing Bob is in danger so Shepard must try and take care of this in a timely fashion No one would feel the urgency of it all because Bob Knob is some dude.

Miranda is the best character suited for a role like this She was a Loyalist to Cerberus and someone the player knows so using her this way is a great thing it puts her in danger and helps the story along. While staying try to her character and her motivations.

If you don't grasp what I'm trying to say it leads me to believe you wouldn't be a good plot, character, or story writer, I'm sorry,

[AgitatedLemon]

gearseffect wrote...

Next Miri is not Cerberus' or TIM's 2nd in command, TIM is Cerberus, Miranda was just the 2nd in Command of Lazarus.

So Miranda and ME3 are lying, then.

[AxisEvolve]

I'd like to give certain members of the me2 squad "the shaft". Most notably Miranda, Samara, and Jack.

Sorry. Carry on.

[Spanky Magoo]

[quote]gearseffect wrote...



The fact that some people seem to fail to grasp that some of the characters can have a much bigger role and impact on the plot if they are not on squad full time is.... I won't say it I don't want to P!ss some people off by saying it.[/quote]

Yes some characters can drive the plot forward off-screen but some characters can do that while in the squad. ex.(VS,Liara,Tali)

[quote]The characters are a big draw in the game but they are also story telling tools. Plot boards to be used to further the story. I[/quote]

Im going to use Miranda again as an example and this time as a way to explain who cerberus is and their history for those new players Bioware is trying to draw in.

[quote]By taking certain characters off the full time squad they can be used to better tell the story and help the plot unfold in a more natural way.[/quote]

Didnt you say you think Legion should be a squad member?

[quote]I like Miranda off the squad and going back to Cerberus her doing that keeps Miranda true to her character by ensuring her sisters safety and at the same time allows her to have a decent sized role in taking down the New Re-Purposed and upgraded Cerberus, if someone out of left like say um Bob Knob ends up a turn coat and helps Shepard take Cerberus down from the inside and by doing Bob is in danger so Shepard must try and take care of this in a timely fashion No one would feel the urgency of it all because Bob Knob is some dude.[/quote]

Except she resigns if you take her with you at the end of the SM and if TIM is as petty as you say (I hav not read the comics or books.) I doubt he would take her back if she is so unimportant lol.

[quote]Miranda is the best character suited for a role like this She was a Loyalist to Cerberus and someone the player knows so using her this way is a great thing it puts her in danger and helps the story along. While staying try to her character and her motivations.[/quote]

Except she resigns from Cerberus, staying loyal to Shepard and then you think she should betray Shepard? Thats not very true to her character.

[/quote]If you don't grasp what I'm trying to say it leads me to believe you wouldn't be a good plot, character, or story writer, I'm sorry,[/quote]

I get what your trying to say but what I dont know is why?

So I ask, who do you think should be in the perma squad?