167 réponses à ce sujet

[LSDS]

eisberg77 wrote...

Do you realize in their other RPGs they had no storage chests in the game?  I think Mass Effect might have been the only one.  It is pretty common for Bioware not to have storage chests in their game.

KotOR had various storage containers.  I don't recall any storage in ME but I may have simply forgotten about it or never used it.

The only other Bioware game I've played is JE but I didn't have a chance to finish it and can't remember too much about it really.

It's nice to have the storage chest in DA:O but it isn't really that much of a help considering how the vendors operate.

[Wild Maiden]

Isn't that letter proof that the storage chest WAS in the original game and was removed, then added again through DLC? He says it was removed because they were too lazy to tackle the underlying problem, but the DLC team didn't seem to have any trouble getting it to work...



That letter is proof of exactly what a lot of us have suspected, that content WAS removed from the game, and that same content was later sold back to us in the form of DLC.



Thank you for posting it.

[Mordaedil]

I just don't get why a Euro equals a Dollar. If that was corrected, I'd have no complaints. I don't really know what the excess money goes into myself, but w/e.

[Sloth Of Doom]

Wild Maiden wrote...

Isn't that letter proof that the
storage chest WAS in the original game and was removed, then added
again through DLC? He says it was removed because they were too lazy to
tackle the underlying problem, but the DLC team didn't seem to have any
trouble getting it to work...

lNo the letter is proof that
the chest was removed to avoid initia issues with it, then never
replaced because it was low priority didn't come up as an issue until  released to the general public where there is always someone that will make a big stink over nothing..   It also say quite clearly that the issue was because the camp is not a pesistent place, a problem that warden's keep does not have.  Therefore your accusations of lazyness does nothing but prove your own inability to comprehend the english languae.

That
letter is proof of exactly what a lot of us have suspected, that
content WAS removed from the game, and that same content was later sold
back to us in the form of DLC.

No, the letter is proof that a buggy system was removed from the game, then a different system that performs a similar (but not identical) purpose was included as a small part of a DLC.

[Meldread]

I didn't read the entire thread, so maybe it was addressed. However, I'm pretty sure your problem comes down to currency exchange rates. Some forms of currency are worth more than others, thus you're paying the equivalent of seven dollars in your own currency. Were you to pay seven you'd actually either be paying less or more for the content than otherwise. There may also be issues of taxes involved, though I doubt this is the case.



To give an example: $1 US Dollar = 642,371,437,695,221,000 Zimbabwean Dollars (Learned after a quick Google search. This was back in 2008, so it may be more or less today, the value of currencies fluctuate.)



Obviously, Bioware is going to want more than 7 Zimbabwean Dollars in exchange for the Downloadable Content.

[Wild Maiden]

Sloth Of Doom wrote...
Therefore your accusations of lazyness does nothing but prove your own inability to comprehend the english languae.

The English what?  But really, how does my previous comment say anything about my comprehension of English? I do think that developers deciding to completely remove elements from a game that have issues instead of fixing them is lazy.  It's the easy way out.  It's also, in this case, a convenient way to "shift" content from the main game to the DLC so they can include a new "feature" so people will buy it.  

Even if it was unintentional (which I'm skeptical of), that's what was done.  Factually, by their own admission, content was removed from the main game then added to the DLC to be sold to us separately.  Again, even if this was not done deliberately, it still caused a sizable portion of this community to feel as though they were being taken advantage of and/or ripped off.  Bad business any way you slice it.

Personally, I like the idea of DLC.  I think The Stone Prisoner is a perfect example of how DLC should be done (although at $14.99 I'm not so sure it's a great deal).  Warden's Keep was short, falsely advertised, and one of its major selling points was a storage chest that should have been, by the developers admission, in the game in the first place.  It was a rip off on every front.  They said we would get "New features - a base of operations with party storage."  Does anybody think a merchant standing outside in the snow, not in a camp, is a base of operations?  It was misleading at best.  That kind of thing is what I have a problem with.

Now they are pitching us another DLC pack that, more or less, merely lets you travel back to a city you've already been to... There's a lot of time for them to make this next one good, but from what they've said so far it sounds like Warden's Keep all over again.

[Cbowsin]

Possibly Currency Exchange Rates. I don't mean how much 1 dollar = X amounts of foreign currency I mean how much the processing service to convert your money into dollars so that a business can accept foreign currency charges.

[Came99]

Wild Maiden wrote...

Personally, I like the idea of DLC.  I think The Stone Prisoner is a perfect example of how DLC should be done (although at $14.99 I'm not so sure it's a great deal).  Warden's Keep was short, falsely advertised, and one of its major selling points was a storage chest that should have been, by the developers admission, in the game in the first place.  It was a rip off on every front.  They said we would get "New features - a base of operations with party storage."  Does anybody think a merchant standing outside in the snow, not in a camp, is a base of operations?  It was misleading at best.  That kind of thing is what I have a problem with.

I totally agree on this. The fact that the storage chest was one of the major selling points of Wardens Keep kind of proves to me that they knew they moved a very sought for feature from the game to DLC.

If not, why didnt they have the decency to patch it for free into the game?

You have proven nothing other than how naive you really are.

1) Major outrage from part of the community
2) Money hungry company reassures in a letter to the community that profit wasnt an issue (but still dont patch the content missing into the game for free (at least not console-versions)
3) Most naive person in the world claps his naive hands and thinks someone owe him an apology.

Modifié par Came99, 25 novembre 2009 - 10:40 .

[DJoker35]

Came99 wrote...

Wild Maiden wrote...

Personally, I like the idea of DLC.  I think The Stone Prisoner is a perfect example of how DLC should be done (although at $14.99 I'm not so sure it's a great deal).  Warden's Keep was short, falsely advertised, and one of its major selling points was a storage chest that should have been, by the developers admission, in the game in the first place.  It was a rip off on every front.  They said we would get "New features - a base of operations with party storage."  Does anybody think a merchant standing outside in the snow, not in a camp, is a base of operations?  It was misleading at best.  That kind of thing is what I have a problem with.

I totally agree on this. The fact that the storage chest was one of the major selling points of Wardens Keep kind of proves to me that they knew they moved a very sought for feature from the game to DLC.

If not, why didnt they have the decency to patch it for free into the game?

You have proven nothing other than how naive you really are.

1) Major outrage from part of the community
2) Money hungry company reassures in a letter to the community that profit wasnt an issue (but still dont patch the content missing into the game for free (at least not console-versions)
3) Most naive person in the world claps his naive hands and thinks someone owe him an apology.

Why didn't they patch it into the game? Because it's optional and unneeded.
It's not missing content, it's something the developers decided wasn't
necessary in the game, but was worth including in an optional expansion
if YOU felt it was necessary, and then released one for free if you own
the PC version. Sorry your console is too limited to use the toolset. 

If
you want to call Georg a liar (and he is quite active on these
foums...I'm sure he'd be willing to address that claim), go ahead.

You
don't really owe anyone an apology for your opinion. For using ad
hominem arguments and insults to defend that opinion against anyone who
disagrees with you though, well...

But hey, don't let facts get in your way.

[Raint]

just be glad that they actually are making some extra stuff for us, is it good or bad, we´ll see.



Thanks Bioware love the game

[Jonfon_ire]

Came99 wrote...

ohh great. For the ps3 (or Xbox for that matter)? No? ohh.. I still claim that their move is deliberate to showel in cash. They got 10 bucks from me on that account. First and last DLC from Bioware I will ever buy.

The problem is that PS3 and Xboxes have a massive second-hand sales market going. A lot of Console players trade in their games once completed, unlike PC Owners (at least over here) so Bioware doesn't see a penny from that "extra sale" of a second hand copy. 

So to entice "second generation" Console gamers to give some cash to Bioware / EA towards the 60+ hour game they now have they're attempting a business model that recoups some cash from second hand console players. PC Players can of course download player made mods for things like chests / hawt new items instead.

Given how EA have "refocused" their business attentions in the last few months (see Mythic for details) Bioware attempting to bolster there bottom line via methods like this is actually quite clever from a business model PoV.

All that having been said I'm not enarmoured by Wardens Keep (although I do have it from getting a Deluxe version of the game initially, it was only a fiver more) and probably won't bother with the new content either. Personally I'm waiting for something more juicy. But then I may not be the target market for them, I reckon the target market might be the consoler who got the game cheap second-hand and figures "what the hell".

For PC owners, with the ability to mod the game I think DLC / Expansions focusing more on new story content & areas will be more successful.

Modifié par Jonfon_ire, 25 novembre 2009 - 11:44 .

[MartinJHolm]

Killian Kalthorne wrote...

To pay for the translation.

What translation?

[GreenSoda]

Meldread wrote...

I didn't read the entire thread, so maybe it was addressed. However, I'm pretty sure your problem comes down to currency exchange rates. Some forms of currency are worth more than others, thus you're paying the equivalent of seven dollars in your own currency. Were you to pay seven you'd actually either be paying less or more for the content than otherwise. There may also be issues of taxes involved, though I doubt this is the case.

To give an example: $1 US Dollar = 642,371,437,695,221,000 Zimbabwean Dollars (Learned after a quick Google search. This was back in 2008, so it may be more or less today, the value of currencies fluctuate.)

Obviously, Bioware is going to want more than 7 Zimbabwean Dollars in exchange for the Downloadable Content.

It's called "exchange rate"...so while BW (EA) might obviously not be content to sell their DLC for 7 Zimbabwean Dollars, they should be more than happy to sell their DLC for 7 * 642,371,437,695,221,000 Zimbabwean Dollars. That's the exchange rate.

...the problem the OP has is that BW (EA) breaks the exchange rate and charges *more* in other regions...for the EU the 7$ WK DLC sells for roughly 10$...you know -just 'cause.

That sucks.

It's called "price differentiation" (though I do not know if that is the actual engl. term for it) -one of the first things you learn during your studies of econmics as means to maximize your profit. The reasoning behind this is that -ideally- rich people should pay more for the same product, because they can afford it...same reason why there is a first class and a business class in planes/trains. Price differentiation.

Another point is "price obfuscation" where you try to disguise the true cost of your product so the customer is "tricked" into thinking that your product is actually cheaper than it is -that's the reason why you have to buy "Bioware points" (and why you get hundreds of points instead of, lets say 1 point per $ -gives you the feeling that you're "rich") and can't pay directly in $. It's also the reason why everything costs X.99$ instead of just X+1$.

It's just that now, with the internet, ppl are in a position where they easily can compare prices and in turn realize that they are actually "tricked" into worse deals.

[Rhys Cordelle]

"If not, why didnt they have the decency to patch it for free into the game?"



Why are you assuming they won't? Instead of ranting you could actually make a constructive post requesting that bioware consider adding a storage chest in an upcoming patch.



I'm sooo over all these complaints. But then I enjoy Dragon Age so much, and feel it's the best money I've ever spent on a game, so I'm more than willing to spend more on DLC.

[Came99]

Quoting "Eisberg The queen of the Naives"

So what you are saying is that if the DLC team (completly separate team from the ones who made the game) decided to put new features in the game through the DLC, that means it should have been in the game in the first place?  This is something you'll have to get used to, cause I'm sure the DLC team will think of more features to put in.  But one thing for sure though is that the original design of the game did not include storage chests, and that the DLC team decided to put one in.


Quoted from a moderator in another post:

"while the game was being polished and ported, the content creator type developers started doing the DLC, since they had finished their work on the main game (indeed, they couldn't add anything to the main game, as that would interfere with porting and polishing what was already there)."


There you have your "whole other bunch of guys, who just happend to come up with an idea about a storage chest in the DLC"

As it clearly states and have been claimed so many times before: The DLC team is a whole other bunch of people than the ones who worked on the original game. That makes the above argument from the Queen of Naives about that the storage chest was an idea that the devs never had, and just sprung to life in the minds of someone from the DLC-team totaly valid. No conspiracy here... Oh.. wait a minute....

They ARE the same guys. The same guy that didnt implement (or patched it) it in the original game is the same guys that is serving it in a DLC.

Eisberg, either you are very young, or else you must be one of the most gullible people I have ever met. I bet you would even say "thank you" if you were getting mugged.

Will the fanbois please shut up now, or is therew any more false assumptions that I should clear out for you?

Modifié par Came99, 25 novembre 2009 - 01:08 .

[DJoker35]

Came99 wrote...

Will the fanbois please shut up now, or is therew any more false assumptions that I should clear out for you?

Ah, sorry. This is a forum. If you don't want your ridiculous presumptions questioned, perhaps you should talk to a mirror.

And by the way...every single point you have made so far is nothing BUT assumption. You ASSUME that these things were left out on purpose, though it has been stated they were not. You ASSUME that there's something sisister going on to force you to pay more, though it's been stated that there's not.. It's rather ironic and somewhat sad you can't recognize that. At least those who think you're wrong have some actual basis for their points (see moderator and developer comments). All you have is inuendo and conspiracy theory.

Now, why don't you just go play the game and have some fun. I think that's what I'm going to do. Your insults and attention craving are getting dull.

Modifié par DJoker35, 25 novembre 2009 - 01:46 .

[SheffSteel]

Came99 wrote...
Will the fanbois please shut up now, or is therew any more false assumptions that I should clear out for you?

How about one of the fanboys* clears up some false assumptions for you?

Storage was removed from the main game for technical reasons. Specifically, there are several versions of the camp which are swapped in and out over the course of the campaign. In other words, if the player fills the chest in camp #1 with loot, completes a mission and clicks on the camp icon in the world map, they are taken to camp #2 which contains an extra NPC and whose chest contains no loot. There's no way for them to get to camp #1 and therefore no way to get the loot. In fact, I'd be prepared to bet that the loot no longer exists, at the point when camp #2 is added in to the savegame and camp #1 is deleted.

I hope that you can appreciate the problem from this description.

This problem was discovered (see developer post quoted above) late in game develpment. I don't know how much you understand about the latter stages of game development, so I'll just say this. When the deadline is getting close, if a proper bug fix is going to take a long time, a simpler fix is used instead. This might be referred to as "quick and dirty" because it compromises someone's ideals, but in practice these fixes tend to be the ones that are guaranteed to solve the problem. In this context, removal of the storage chest is the obvious solution.

One other little point - the people removing the chest were programmers doing bug-fixing, and the people adding the chest to Warden's Keep were level designers doing content creation.


So... for those who still want to believe that this was a cynical exercise, no one can really stop you.



* Note that this "fanboy" has not bought any premium content, and is not planning on it at this time.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 25 novembre 2009 - 02:09 .

[Drogo45]

A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.

Came99 sees devils and conniving. You can either agree with him and be correct, or not agree with him and be a blind fanboy. No amount of reasoning, arguing, convincing......ect..... will do a drop of good, because he will clearly state either you have not provided the needed proof | reasoning or it was faulty.

There have always been folks like Came99 and always will be. Live and let live.

Modifié par Drogo45, 25 novembre 2009 - 02:26 .

[Durallan]

No european is allowed to complain about game prices, until they've lived life as an Australian. Its against the Geneva Convention.

[Jassper]

It is called "Rate of Exchange". you should have learned about it in school.



They aren't "charging you more" because you live in a different country. The price is set by the country that the company is based in, not sure if EA is a Canadian or USA based company.



For example, if a company in the states wants $10.00 for a product then the amount is adjusted based on YOUR countries exchange rate. So if your dollar is only worth 0.50 in the US, you will have to pay $20.00 of your dollars to equal $10.00 US dollars.

[Tripedius]

If you vote with your wallet you dont have to tell us (or Bioware).



Bioware has to pay in euro's for services and personel in europe, so that explains the price difference. And I'm sorry that your country is so backwards that you still have krones.



If you don't want it. Dont buy it. But do we actually need more posts on why certain people dont like paying for DLC's? What's in the game is in the game. It's a full game even without the DLC. So any argument: It had to be in the game in the first place, fails. There is no storage in the normal game, and you don't need it. You could even mod it in.

[Eurypterid]

Enough insults in this thread. If you can't discuss things without resorting to insults and flaming, this discussion will be closed.

[GreenSoda]

Jassper wrote...

It is called "Rate of Exchange". you should have learned about it in school.

They aren't "charging you more" because you live in a different country. The price is set by the country that the company is based in, not sure if EA is a Canadian or USA based company.

For example, if a company in the states wants $10.00 for a product then the amount is adjusted based on YOUR countries exchange rate. So if your dollar is only worth 0.50 in the US, you will have to pay $20.00 of your dollars to equal $10.00 US dollars.

...which is exactly *not* what BW is doing. Nobody in this thread would complain if that were so.

They *are* charging more. (A lot more if you live in Australia)

Current exchange rate € in $ = 1.50...so WK should be 7$ = 4.7 €...however it is: 6.7€ which is 10$.

It's not a whole lot of money but...

a) it adds up
 DLC is overpriced already at a 7$ pricetag (imo of course).