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why i hate the chantry


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#76
Heals.like.Jesus

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Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

Islam and christianity preach of mercy and forgiveness, and both have a history of violent massacres. Its hypocrisy


Thats standard practice for all of humanity though.


But at least humanity is honest about being violent and is not a two-faced hypocrite. Christians, having conquered Jerusalem then slew around 3000 unarmed civilians, and in history classes we were explained in great detail the sickening deeds performed by Turks after they conqured the christians of the balkans.

I saw a very successful sketch once: It depicted 2 templars standing amidst the slain bodies of Muslim people, swords and armor dripping with blood and one says to the other " enough slaughter for today, lets go pray"

Modifié par Heals.like.Jesus, 24 novembre 2009 - 01:43 .


#77
0mar

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The difference is that the Chantry is supported by physical evidence. The religions today have nothing but faith, but in Dragon Age, there is physical evidence of the Creator and what he wants. That's a huge difference between Dragon Age and our world.

#78
FlintlockJazz

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Heals.like.Jesus wrote...


Heals.like.Jesus wrote...

Islam and christianity preach of mercy and forgiveness, and both have a history of violent massacres. Its hypocrisy


Thats standard practice for all of humanity though.


But at least humanity is honest about being violent and is not a two-faced hypocrite. Christians, having conquered Jerusalem then slew around 3000 unarmed civilians, and in history classes we were explained in great detail the sickening deeds performed by Turks after they conqured the christians of the balkans.

I saw a very successful sketch once: It depicted 2 templars standing amidst the slain bodies of Muslim people, swords and armor dripping with blood and one says to the other " enough slaughter for today, lets go pray"


Actually I was refering to both violent massacres and hypocrisy being standard human practice.  America having the nuclear bomb but not trusting anyone else with it for instance.  Take a look at the governments of today: they are full of liars and hypocrites, people will kill each other over an ideal and then abandone it once they achieve power, etc.  I have known a few athiests who are just as fanatical and hypocritical as religious fundamentalists, and as an agnostic I get to watch everyone from my fence. :innocent:

Violence in the name of religion is caused by those in power using it as an excuse, just like they use WMDs to do the same.

#79
F-C

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why i hate women who dont take care of their cars. i have a headache and i have to go take this car in and spend hundreds of dollars on repairs because the check engine light came on because she cant be bothered with doing things like stopping to get the oil changed every 3000 miles.



its a better subject than this thread.

#80
pathenry

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Vormaerin wrote...
You may have forgotten that the Moslems conquered Spain and invaded France early in the medieval era?    And they conquered the Balkans and laid seige to Vienna in the eras after the Crusades...


No, they didn't forget it - they never knew it. Cause they don't teach inconvenient history in the schools that the kiddies go to now.

They teach "Evil Crusaders! Bad Bad!  Invading those poor innocent muslim lands!".

They neglect to inform these tender young minds that the Crusades were a _retaliation_ by Christian Europe against relentless Muslim invasions spanning hundreds of years. And that those 'muslim lands' were Christian lands long before they were invaded.

#81
Vladix75

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who knows what was in the urn, could be the ash of a random guy

Why dont the dwarves believe

If he is real, dont know if there is more proof tho that he is real

And why doesnt he help vs the darkspawn but lets his

Followers die

#82
Phaedra Sanguine

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I only dislike the Chantry because it makes Morrigan mad when/if I decide to help them. :o

#83
Guest_Crawling_Chaos_*

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Mordaedil wrote...

Projecting real life views into video games.

Also, this is NOTHING like Christianity.


Oh, the Chantry indeed does have quite the parallels with Christianity.

#84
Combine08

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I like the Chantry somehow, especially the Chantry’s militant arm, the Order of the Templars.

#85
Monkinsane

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Really? Got read up on the history of christianity and a few other religions ass well. How entire nations were brutally attacked just because they didn't believe in the same god.

But the actions of those ppl back then shoudn't reflect on the faith as a whole.

There is no limit to human ignorance and arrogance. That is the root of all problems.

Mordaedil wrote...

Projecting real life views into video games.

Also, this is NOTHING like Christianity.



#86
Rhys Cordelle

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Vladix75 wrote...

who knows what was in the urn, could be the ash of a random guy
Why dont the dwarves believe
If he is real, dont know if there is more proof tho that he is real
And why doesnt he help vs the darkspawn but lets his
Followers die


Well, the urn only speaks to the divinity of Andraste, it's not really evidence for the Maker. But hey, this is a fantasy setting, the gods are always real in fantasy.

#87
Derengard

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To defy the Maker in this game either by dialogue or action is always to be wrong. I would have preferred a somewhat more neutral world-building. I haven't seen all of the game yet, but for example being an elf convinced of his/her "gods" pretty much means to be "a mean sort of fellow", whereas always saying yes and amen to "Maker this, Maker that" is to be "a good buddy".

#88
Silensfurtim

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its amusing when you hear Morrigan and Leliana talka bout religion. its like atheist vs christian. of course i was rooting for Morrigan haha

#89
danlanbingyan222

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I felt like the divine system in DND setting appeals to me more.

#90
_Ermehtar_

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Damiannnnn wrote...


Yes it is. The collapse of the Tevinter Imperium by a blight and then by invading "barbarian" tribes is a direct mirror of the fall of the Western Roman Empire. The Tevinter rules over much of the world. The Roman empire rules over much of the world. After the fall of Tevinter, the people take up new gods which had only been worshipped by mostly minorities before. After the fall of the Roman empire, Christianity takes hold of Europe like a starving lion takes hold of a captured deer.

Exalted marches = Crusades.

The Schism between Tevinter's interpretation of the Chant and the other interpretation of the chant = The Schism between, to a lesser extent, between Christian west and Orthodox east, and to a greater extent the Protestants and Catholics.

The Maker's prophet Andraste being betrayed and burned at the stake = God's son and prophet being betrayed and crucified.

This entire storyline is Europes history of the last 1,500 years, with the names of everything changed, and beasts from hell added into the mix.

Which is why, as a historian, I love the Codex more than any other feature of this game, except perhaps for Leliana in those Chasind robes you find from the secret stash. I might like that more than the codex. Not much more though. Just a tad.


I agree with most of what you say with the exception of Exhalted marches = Crusades.. Unless your thinking about the Blakan Crusades. The Crusades was first a mission to Help the ERE reclaim the "holy land" (mainly Jerusalem), from the muslims who had taken the city, destroyed the church of the Holy sepulcher, imprisoned pilgrims and killed clergy.
The reconquista in Spain was similar, as the goal was the drive the muslims away and not to convert them. The muslims who remaind got an option to convert or go to Africa, the dalish did not get such an option as they where enslaved, and neither had they conquered the Dales from humans.

The Exhalted march on the other hand seems to have occured because the elven did not follow the Chantrys belifs. Pretty much like the balkans, where the christians goal was to convert the pagans with the sword.

#91
MacroSamurai

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I'm pretty sure somewhere in the threads here about lore that Mr. Gaider mentioned that we, as players, shouldn't automatically assume that Andraste's ashes are actually divine in nature. There's always the possibility that Andraste was a mage and she had such ridiculous power that her ashes happen to be able to cure diseases and the like.

#92
Kwanzaabot

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People who don't think the Chantry is an obvious parallel of Abrahamic religion (especially Christianity) really need to crack open a history book.

And although it's not anywhere near as blatant as "Chantry = medieval Catholicism", the Dalish remind me a lot of medieval Jews, in that some of the earliest Andrastians were elves (just like how Christianity started as a [rather out-there] sect of Judaism), and their history of persecution.
Obviously it's not exactly the same, but there are similarities.

Modifié par Kwanzaabot, 13 février 2010 - 11:33 .


#93
Daxne Kettel_

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Vladix75 wrote...

I hate/dislike the chantry so much in this game.
Main reason is i am against any kind of religion en the chantry reminds of the christians in medieval times.

All this time hearing bless the maker makes me wanna hit those people in the face.

They have there templars to hunt down "bad" that wont listen to them and lock the others up in a tower so they can keep them under controll
Knight templar and the pagans anyone?

Also they forbid other magic that they dont approve, preventing mages to discover new helpfull spells with blood magic.
Again alot like the church in old times that burned witches for there dark magic (research).

Alot of other things i can say but i wont as i probaly offend alot of people then.

I must say tho they did a good job with giving this a medieval feeling with this but more reason for me to hate the chantry.
Hoping to 1 day be able to play as darkspawn and slay them all.

Now my only concern is if my new "evil" char should do the chantry board Q for the gold or not.



I share you dislike of the Chantry. They're a bunch of self-righteous, arrogant hypocrites. They claim that the Maker has love for all, yet they decimated the Elves simply because the elves didn't want to follow their ways. They then enslaved them, and now they treat them like second-class citizens, forcing them to live in terrible conditions. They claim that it was the Tevinter Imperium's fault that the darkspawn were born. Of course they'd say that. They hate Tevinter. How else could they make the place look bad? How does the Chantry know how the darkspawn were created? I'm content enough to say that I don't know where the darkspawn are really from for now (unless, of course, Bioware never does actually tell us). Yes, there are indeed connections between the taint, the Black City, and the Old Gods, but that doesn't mean that the Chantry is right. For all we know, the Chantry itself could've created the darkspawn taint to weaken Tevinter so that it could be attacked. Perhaps the taint was locked up in the Black City, but someone ended up setting it loose. Maybe it was the Chantry, and they blamed Tevinter.

I almost want to burn the damn Chantries to the ground everytime I see one. I also love how they want to spread their influence all over the world, because if they succeed in this, the Maker will return to mankind, forgive them of their sins, and make the Black City "golden" again. Please! That's a nicer way of saying, "We want to conquer the whole world, and then nobody will ever oppose us!" I wonder what will happen if they manage to spread everywhere and nothing happens.

As for the whole Golden City myth; there is nothing to prove that the Black City was ever golden. It might've always been black. A demon itself once said that there is no Golden City. Naturally, given how cunning and deceitful demons are, it might have simply been lying, but since Bioware likes to surprise us, the demon might have been telling the truth. The mage Avernus says that he can see the Black City when he dreams about the darkspawn, so there is obviously a connection, but that doesn't mean that the Chantry is right. 

The only thing I like about the Chantry is how they deal with mages. It may be cruel and harsh, but it's the only way to make sure that mages don't use their power in an irrational way. In fact, the incident that takes place during the game that results in abominations and blood mages running wild only proves that the Templars need to be much more strict in running the tower. I guess the blood mages didn't consider that mages in the future might suffer now because of them. But, then again, it's human nature; always doing what we want without regard for others or the consequences. It seems to be a lesson that we never learn. 

But, yes, overall, the Chantry needs to be wiped out and replaced with something less annoying and much less egotistical. There shouldn't be a religion at all. You know who the people need to worship? Themselves. Don't worship a God or some deity, or constantly pray for his/her mercy when you're in danger. Trust in yourself, and you can succeed at almost anything. I saw lots of blessings and prayers being made before the battle of Ostagar, and look what happened there. ;) 

#94
Gravbh

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The chantry doesn't like necromancy.

Modifié par Gravbh, 26 mars 2011 - 01:53 .