141 réponses à ce sujet

[ScorpioProX]

I like the husk idea but have a lot of problems buying it there is no virus they can use? they can dominate minds but creating a virus would be to much?

They dont destroy the normandy cause they don’t expect the normandy to be there.. its a serberus ship after al and the shepard they know and I know would not sit and wait on earth for them to come.

There overwhelmed by robot surprise, cannot compute...

[Taleroth]

ThatDamnSalarian wrote...


Why should the Reapers care about the supposed risk of attacking Vancouver and other cities head on? They're very arrogant.

Arrogance defining your strategy is just a symptom of stupidity. It is not a defense of intelligence.

And if it wasen't for Shepard, they would have every right to be. It didn't look like they lost any of their ships during this "risky" attack, and the other subsequent attacks on the other major cities of Earth.

The entire issue is their method of attack was impractical for their strategic goals. And that inefficiency alone has allowed major resistance to grow.

The fact that they don't lose any ships in the initial attack is beside the point. That only demonstrates they are capable of surviving. Not that it was a better method than orbital bombardment.

[Zartarc]

The crazy thing is that the Normandy could've simply blown away this Mini-Reaper with its Missiles or the thanix-cannons.

[Medhia Nox]

@Lotion - I don't know why I'm even bothering talking to you - but, I'll give it a try.

And - when hundreds of ships are taking off at once (I'm sure even you can extrapolate from what you're shown that there might be more than three doing this in the vicinity)... do you think it's radar is saying: "THAT ONE'S THE GODDAMN NORMANDY SHOOT IT DOWN FOR EPIC WIN" ?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Justicar wrote...

1. IFF. Do I need to explain this? Collectors obviously identified their target because no one else was there. 0_0 I think I'd be suspicious too if I were the only Collector Ship and a Normandy-Shaped Reaper popped up. Also, we attacked it blah blah

2. Stealth Systems. The Normandy didn't engage them in Collector Mission anyway because firing would have rendered Stealth Systems ineffective, I'm pretty sure. Thanix Cannon beams aren't exactly stealthy.

IFF identifies a ship. the reaeprs would know it's Normandy, because Harbringer knows it's Normandy.

Stealth Systems don't work in atmosphere. And hte collectors saw trough it.

The Reapers didn't know it was the same Normandy since it has blue
instead of orange and Alliance logo instead of Cerberus. It was just a
copy of the original of the original.

IFF. And general ship signature. Even today you could probably tell exactly the type, class and possibly exactly which ship by the exhaust plume alone.

The Normandy isn't exactly a threat to the Reapers.
Not one bit.

Neither was the cruiser. Or the gunships. Or the civilians.

erhaps a few cruisers would distract from the narrative that the writers
wanted to create?  They wanted you to see the Kid blown up, while
Shepard leaves and is unable to do anything about it.  You wouldn't have
the possibillity for that emotion (not saying whether it is effective
for you or for everyone in generally - that's what's they're going for)
if you have some cruisers speed in to help out the Normandy.  The focus
would be on the battle, not the kid dying.

So perhaps the sacrifice is not for game mechanics, but in fact for narrative?

Focus os on what oyu write and how you execute it. You could have put hte kid in another scene. Or you could make the kid the focus even with hte ships in questions.
And a narrative like that? It can go die in a fire for all I care.

They dont destroy the normandy cause they don’t expect the normandy to
be there.. its a serberus ship after al and the shepard they know and I
know would not sit and wait on earth for them to come.

There overwhelmed by robot surprise, cannot compute...

Let me repeat this:

The Normandy hovered there FOR A FULL MINUTE. While sorounded by reapers.
Just how many civilians shuttles where the reaper prioritizing over the Normandy?


..
I don't like cutscenes that make little sense.
I also hate the lack of kinetic barriers in cutscenes. Another huge fail IMHO.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Medhia Nox wrote...
And - when hundreds of ships are taking off at once (I'm sure even you can extrapolate from what you're shown that there might be more than three doing this in the vicinity)... do you think it's radar is saying: "THAT ONE'S THE GODDAMN NORMANDY SHOOT IT DOWN FOR EPIC WIN" ?

Yes.
It's a machine with a million minds. If it cannot process thousands of targets and prioritize, then it's far behind even our primitive technology of today.

[Nerevar-as]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Kinthalis ThornBlade wrote...

Uhm... have you guys watched an alien invasion movie recently? Or ever?

This is a problem ALL such fiction faces.

If an alien civilization had the technology to cross interstellar space, they would have to be so ridiculously advanced in their technology that if they wanted to do us in, they could. Without ANY issue.

There would be no way some d-bag with a mac could write a "virus" that takes down their ships, there's no way F-16's could take out their vehicles, there's no way we could do ANYTHING to stop them.

not necessarily.
Firepower advanced faster than defences... And we already reached a point of redicolous firepower avialable to the human race.

sure, the aliens sould wipe out Earth by throwing rocks from orbit...but if they want to take it over and engage our military? Yes, I do think we can do some damage. Even fighter planes can carry nuclear warheads.
And don't speak to me about magical shields that can protect from that....

Besides going meta with the writer´s skill, I think from the Reaper POV it doesn´t matter whether it shoots the Normandy or not. They KNOW they are going to win and wipe out everybody in the galaxy, they´ve been doing it for only them know how long. So shooting the Normandy or keep vaporizing civilians isn´t going to mean much difference to them. The shuttles just were closer.

OT, I think it was Babylon 5 where aliens were surprised how despite being behind in most areas our nukes were up there with the ones from the other races.

Modifié par Nerevar-as, 15 février 2012 - 04:55 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Earlier "they wanted the body" argument: Brilliant, you have solved the problem of explained the problem of the Reapers stupidly not shooting the Normandy by the Reapers, even more stupidly, being hell-bent on acquiring Shepard's body intact (Really, really basic mistake; cf hypothesis suggested by the data or Texas Sharpshooter fallacy)

2. Stealth Systems. The Normandy didn't engage them in Collector Mission anyway because firing would have rendered Stealth Systems ineffective, I'm pretty sure. Thanix Cannon beams aren't exactly stealthy.

Don't cover visible light. In fact, that inconsistency (blatantly visible ship not on radar/whatever) would be sure to draw attention.

3. Argument that they've changed IFF codes: lol it's not that easy. They have MANY MANY MANY ships, and since we got an IFF 37 Million Years Old, it says something about how difficult it is to change and also, why would they change it? 1 Ship doesn't spell danger to them. Also, yes, the Reapers are arrogant.

Oh really? There are many, many credit cards and yet your bank will manage to render it unusable if yours is stolen.
The ability to revoke certificates is the most basic when designing such a system, and the lack of this ability renders the entire system completely broken and ineffective. The only way it could possibly make any sense (in universe) is if it was a trap.
Of course, the real explanation (out-of-universe) is that video game developers don't have a clue about security engineering (cf DRM, copy protection and similar ideas that are just as viable as perpetual motion)

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 15 février 2012 - 04:55 .

[LOLandStuff]

Those silly and very dumb Reapers. First thing you do when you invade a planet is look for the troublemaker and get rid of him. They could have used the extra-net to keep tabs on him/her and should have known Shepard was on Earth for trial.

[Dutch105]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

And a narrative like that? It can go die in a fire for all I care.

Well, fair enough then.  Pre-order cancelled?

[Medhia Nox]

I honestly don't know enough about radar - but I'm fairly sure you can't set current Radar to - "Detect specific named ship containing the evil dictator we want to blow up."

How would anything but "magical" radar be able to do that? That is to say - radar that breaks the laws of what radio wave detecting devices will ever be capable of?

If there was something to single out the Normandy specifically - then perhaps - but it is a stealth vessel in a sea of escaping shuttles - massive war ships in the upper atmosphere - and fighters in the lower atmosphere. Not to mention skycrapers - falling debris - etc.

Again - people just need their evil to be all powerful and perfect. Everyone wants a cliche.

[Taleroth]

Medhia Nox wrote...

I honestly don't know enough about radar - but I'm fairly sure you can't set current Radar to - "Detect specific named ship containing the evil dictator we want to blow up."  

You can set it to distinguish between frigates and dingies.

You won't be able to tell the specific crew, but you can distinguish between different ship classes. The Normandy happens to be one of a kind. And the shuttles should be low priorities anyway, even if they mistake the Normandy for a generic frigate.

[ScorpioProX]

Anyway why shoot at small ships flying awy and not the big one normandy...Stealth on the normandy just reduces heat output so they can see it just as well as you can if not better.

[chengthao]

Wulfram wrote...

chengthao wrote...

or you attack the warship that poses a "real" threat to you, you don't "shoot civilians when there is a soldier with a gun" (*note i'm not some psycho, just using an analogy)

But do the reapers consider the Normandy to constitute a real threat?

more of threat than a bunch of shuttles carrying refugees

[Justicar]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

IFF identifies a ship. the reaeprs would know it's Normandy, because Harbringer knows it's Normandy.

Stealth Systems don't work in atmosphere. And hte collectors saw trough it.

Oh, I see.

Well at least I know when to quit.

The Reaper didn't attack because it didn't. /logic

[Stephenc13]

Being massive doesn't mean you're Omnipotent.

Think of how many ships/debris was in the air at the time.

[chengthao]

Stephenc13 wrote...

Being massive doesn't mean you're Omnipotent.

Think of how many ships/debris was in the air at the time.

yet they targeted the tiny shuttles and not the "gigantic" warship with guns that helped destory Sovereign

[AlexXIV]

Well the only thing that comes to mind aside from stupidity (which Reapers are not supposed to be) is arrogance of sorts. They simply have no 'lose' scenario in their memory core. They cannot fail, nobody is a threat to them. Maybe aside from Shepard. But honestly, they failed so many times killing Shep they can as well give up. Maybe Reapers themselves are indoctrinated to believe that whatever they do they will win. So they can do what they want without thinking of consequences. I'm curious if the humans on earth even manage to take down one Reaper tbh. Without Shepard that is.

[hawat333]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Neither was the cruiser. Or the gunships. Or the civilians.

Yep, that's true, and that's my basic thought on the matter. They don't make differences between the targets, there is no priority list. They attack everyone and everything. The Normandy would come up sonner or later on the target list, but by the time it did, it simply wasn't there anymore.

Modifié par hawat333, 15 février 2012 - 05:35 .

[Justicar]

hawat333 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Neither was the cruiser. Or the gunships. Or the civilians.

Yep, that's true, and that's my basic thought on the matter. They don't make differences between the targets, there is no priority list. They attack everyone and everything. The Normandy would come up sonner or later on the target list, but by the time it did, it simply wasn't there anymore.

I thought of this as well. 

tbh I don't care, it doesn't bother me. :x

[Medhia Nox]

No wonder basic TV has to spoon feed information to an audience...

Bioware - you should have shown the Reaper "targeting" the Normandy... and having its weaponry just about to fire when the Normandy escapes.

Because if it's not expressly stated... your audience can't think around it.

[chengthao]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Kinthalis ThornBlade wrote...

Uhm... have you guys watched an alien invasion movie recently? Or ever?

This is a problem ALL such fiction faces.

If an alien civilization had the technology to cross interstellar space, they would have to be so ridiculously advanced in their technology that if they wanted to do us in, they could. Without ANY issue.

There would be no way some d-bag with a mac could write a "virus" that takes down their ships, there's no way F-16's could take out their vehicles, there's no way we could do ANYTHING to stop them.

not necessarily.
Firepower advanced faster than defences... And we already reached a point of redicolous firepower avialable to the human race.

sure, the aliens sould wipe out Earth by throwing rocks from orbit...but if they want to take it over and engage our military? Yes, I do think we can do some damage. Even fighter planes can carry nuclear warheads.
And don't speak to me about magical shields that can protect from that....

Besides going meta with the writer´s skill, I think from the Reaper POV it doesn´t matter whether it shoots the Normandy or not. They KNOW they are going to win and wipe out everybody in the galaxy, they´ve been doing it for only them know how long. So shooting the Normandy or keep vaporizing civilians isn´t going to mean much difference to them. The shuttles just were closer.

OT, I think it was Babylon 5 where aliens were surprised how despite being behind in most areas our nukes were up there with the ones from the other races.

the Normandy was a sitting target, the shuttles were tiny moving targets, clearly the Reapers know that Sovereign was destroyed by Alliance ships, so why wouldn't they prioritize a warship capable of destroying them over a bunch of tiny shuttles with civilians (destroying the Normandy would probably have had the same amount if not more casualties plus your killing "resistance" fighters, not refugees)

Modifié par chengthao, 15 février 2012 - 06:35 .

[incinerator950]

It's called a Hero story and a plot device. Plot armor is the strongest thing in gaming, please accept that and move on.

[teh_619]

chengthao wrote...

Dutch105 wrote...

I fear that people would flock to BSN to complain if Mass Effect 3 ended within the first 20 mins of the game, because the Reapers destroyed the Normandy.

Sometimes, game mechanics have to come in front of "established lore".

or maybe they could've just done a scene that made more sense

What??

No. We can't have that.

[Anacronian Stryx]

Another question that could be asked is why did the Normandy just hoover there and watch the civilians get killed?

It's so surreal that they just stand there and watch kind of like "Uhmm big reaper thingy coming commander should we do something or at least try too?...No..okay you read the script and were just supposed to stay here ..i see..preparing to fly off like we haven't got a care in the world..roger".

See if the scene had worked like this.

Reaper breaks though and does the Bwwwwwwah"
Shep :"Oh S***...S*** fire everything try to give the civilians some cover".
Normandy fire like crazy on the reaper which is unfazed.
Shep (clinging to the bulkhead from the shaking of the barrage laid down by the Normandy) - "come onn come on"
Reaper leisurely takes down the shuttles and then begins to fire at the Normandy"
Shep :"Pilot get us the hell out of here!!!"
Normandy flies of while maneuvering to evade fire.