Seeing a child...no, unless Shepard has been killing children and that was never mentioned before. PTSD is usually flashbacks of a traumatic experience.
The Child: A figment of Shepard's imagination?
Débuté par
Excalceo
, févr. 15 2012 03:57
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#77
Guest_Mei Mei_*
Posté 15 février 2012 - 07:53
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rikusoraleon wrote...
Three things occurred that made me think he was a hallucination: 1) no one but Shepard noticed the child's existence 2) how he quickly vanished even though Shepard turned around for just one second when he was in the vent and he made no noise 3) how no one helped him get on the Kodiak, like he wasn't even there.
Also notice that on the character creation you get a choice of who has died and all of the descriptions allude that Shepard is or may go through some kind of psychological trauma. The child could be part of Shepard's mental stress due to watching his allies die.
Here is the problem with this whole supposition. Shepard has been in the midst of these events the entire time. Event after event has been occurring. This is Shepards base line, for now. The question is, once these events pass, what will Shepards functioning going to be? We don't know. There hasn't been an after, yet.
Thus, to try to diagnose anyone, during the time of the trauma cannot be done.
Thats not to say the past events have had an impact they will. But we do not know the extent. Not until the events are done and Shepard returns to day to day functioning,
#78
Posté 15 février 2012 - 07:54
Berkilak
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Not to mention that the heads of BioWare are medical doctors, and it would be quite disrespectful if such a supposed inconsistency slipped.Mei Mei wrote...
Arm chair psychology again... Cue dramatic music....
First off... Just because someone experiences a trauma does not mean they will experience the disorder of PTSD. MOST people who experience a trauma, either man made or based in nature, find a way to process the trauma and incorporate it into their view of the world. A few go on to experience the symptoms that are the disorder that is known as PTSD.
Now, let me make this clear. Hallucinations and/or delusions are in NO WAY present in Post Traumtic Stress Disorder. Not to say someone cannot be psychotic and have PTSD symptoms, that can happen. But it's is not a result of PTSD.
Now as for the claims of no one else seeing the child. I think they were all kind of busy looking up at the huge things smashing everything. Anderson was on the other side of the door that Shepard opened for him. The child could have crawled away. The child got into the shuttle, full of injured and scared people, on his own.
How does this make it a hallucination? It doesn't. You cannot tell at that moment, and in that context if it is or is not based in Shepards reality.
#79
Guest_Mei Mei_*
Posté 15 février 2012 - 07:59
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Considering that most medical doctors aka primary care providers/physicians are NOT trained in behavioral/mental health sciences, then they would most likely refer out for an appropriate diagnosis or risk misdiagnosing as they do not usually have a thorough enough background in order to diagnose with confidence a disorder such as PTSD. That kind of diagnosis comes from Psychiatrists, Psychologists and Social Workers.Berkilak wrote...
Not to mention that the heads of BioWare are medical doctors, and it would be quite disrespectful if such a supposed inconsistency slipped.
The whole supposition is based in inaccurate and faulty reasoning that some how a child could or could not be a hallucination and be erroneous attribution of it to Post Trauamtic Stress Disorder.
Modifié par Mei Mei, 15 février 2012 - 08:01 .
#80
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:02
LTiberious
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Most propably, AFAIK you cant kill children in video games o_O
#81
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:03
Arcadian Legend
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Yeah, this theory was thought up a while back.
#82
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:03
CerberusSoldier
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Excalceo wrote...
: runtheorizingsequence.exe
: sequence running...
Here's something few have considered. How do we know the child is real? Bioware has stated several times that Shepard will be dealing with a little PTSD this time around, and the child could be a manifestation of that. Think about it...
1) No one except Shepard acknowledges the child. Anderson didn't see or hear him, the Alliance soldiers next to the evacuation shuttle didn't even glance at him, and no one else standing in the Normandy's loading hatch looks
at him either.
2) When Shepard looks away from the vent briefly and looks back, the child is gone. Could be he just crawled away, could be he disappeared.
3) "You can't help me" = psychological projection of "You can't save everyone."
The only thing that would refute this is the child being present at the very beginning playing with the toy ship, but even then...Shepard's the only one that saw him. I await your various replies, flames, and "Conspiricy Keanu" photos.
: end sequence
If they use the kid to say you can not save everyone they have a serious issue with the story telling in their games . yeah like ME 2 beat it over our heads about how bad Cerberus is . I hated that sh*t in 2 and pray they do not go down the same road again
#83
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:06
daftPirate
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I don't know where this idea cropped up first, but ever since playing the demo I'm more inclined to believe this is the case. To be honest, its the only real possible justification for the child's strange line of dialogue. Anything else and its just kind of silly.
#84
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:07
LTiberious
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CerberusSoldier wrote...
Excalceo wrote...
: runtheorizingsequence.exe
: sequence running...
Here's something few have considered. How do we know the child is real? Bioware has stated several times that Shepard will be dealing with a little PTSD this time around, and the child could be a manifestation of that. Think about it...
1) No one except Shepard acknowledges the child. Anderson didn't see or hear him, the Alliance soldiers next to the evacuation shuttle didn't even glance at him, and no one else standing in the Normandy's loading hatch looks
at him either.
2) When Shepard looks away from the vent briefly and looks back, the child is gone. Could be he just crawled away, could be he disappeared.
3) "You can't help me" = psychological projection of "You can't save everyone."
The only thing that would refute this is the child being present at the very beginning playing with the toy ship, but even then...Shepard's the only one that saw him. I await your various replies, flames, and "Conspiricy Keanu" photos.
: end sequence
If they use the kid to say you can not save everyone they have a serious issue with the story telling in their games . yeah like ME 2 beat it over our heads about how bad Cerberus is . I hated that sh*t in 2 and pray they do not go down the same road again
This - interesting theory.
Making Timmy and Cerb bad - bad idea, worst idea ever, killed a lot of grey morale zone mission possibilities
#85
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:07
Terraforming
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I really think he is.
The "you can't help me" line also struck me as odd for a "real" person to say.
Additionally, the section where you are building your character mentions that combat loss has taken some toll on Shepard, so it doesn't seem too off to think that the kid isn't real.
The "you can't help me" line also struck me as odd for a "real" person to say.
Additionally, the section where you are building your character mentions that combat loss has taken some toll on Shepard, so it doesn't seem too off to think that the kid isn't real.
#86
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:09
SolidBeast
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Toonmanpwnsu wrote...
SolidBeast wrote...
No, that proves nothing. I get hallucinations when under severe stress and they look pretty damn realistic / blended into the environment.
Oh for ****s sake, no you don't. Liar liar pants on fire.
Yes, in fact I do. You don't know anything about me or what happens in my life, and even if you did, you couldn't tell me what I do or do not see. It's relatively small things, like someone next to me doing what they actually aren't. Or they will be in a different part of the room. Or the objects in it are placed in a different way. So it's definitely not as elaborate as having conversations with an imaginary kid, but they *do* seem real. And this is a game where something like that might add an interesting dynamic.
#87
Guest_Mei Mei_*
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:09
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The only way you will know if this child is a hallucination and/or a delusion is if Shepard "sees and interacts" with this child again.
Then you know something is up. Unless that happens, I am going to say, wait and see.
Then you know something is up. Unless that happens, I am going to say, wait and see.
#88
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:09
AquamanOS
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The fact that the kid is adamant that "You can't help me" right around the time Shepard is pondering how everyone can't be saved is suspect.
#89
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:10
StElmo
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Thoth_Amon wrote...
So PTSD = hallucinations?
Yes pretty sure that isn't a symptom, although don't quote me, someone with knowledge might know
#90
Guest_Mei Mei_*
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:13
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Individuals who experience hallucinations do have an exacerbation of those symtoms under stress. Most likely though, that person has been experiencing those hallucinations for some time, and the hallucinations are part of another aspect of either a disorder or functioning.SolidBeast wrote...
Yes, in fact I do. You don't know anything about me or what happens in my life, and even if you did, you couldn't tell me what I do or do not see. It's relatively small things, like someone next to me doing what they actually aren't. Or they will be in a different part of the room. Or the objects in it are placed in a different way. So it's definitely not as elaborate as having conversations with an imaginary kid, but they *do* seem real. And this is a game where something like that might add an interesting dynamic.
This is not the case with Shepard. There are no pre-existing hallucinations present. Thus there is nothing to exacerbate.
#91
Guest_Mei Mei_*
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:15
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StElmo wrote...
Thoth_Amon wrote...
So PTSD = hallucinations?
Yes pretty sure that isn't a symptom, although don't quote me, someone with knowledge might know
It is not a symptom.
#92
Guest_ThicknSwift_*
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:16
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MY MIND IS FULL OF ****
#93
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:17
RenownedRyan
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The child is a young Tyler Durden.
#94
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:18
SolidBeast
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Mei Mei wrote...
Individuals who experience hallucinations do have an exacerbation of those symtoms under stress. Most likely though, that person has been experiencing those hallucinations for some time, and the hallucinations are part of another aspect of either a disorder or functioning.SolidBeast wrote...
Yes, in fact I do. You don't know anything about me or what happens in my life, and even if you did, you couldn't tell me what I do or do not see. It's relatively small things, like someone next to me doing what they actually aren't. Or they will be in a different part of the room. Or the objects in it are placed in a different way. So it's definitely not as elaborate as having conversations with an imaginary kid, but they *do* seem real. And this is a game where something like that might add an interesting dynamic.
This is not the case with Shepard. There are no pre-existing hallucinations present. Thus there is nothing to exacerbate.
True enough. I still think it would add an interesting angle to the story.
#95
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:20
VolusvsReaper
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Excalceo wrote...
: runtheorizingsequence.exe
: sequence running...
Here's something few have considered. How do we know the child is real? Bioware has stated several times that Shepard will be dealing with a little PTSD this time around, and the child could be a manifestation of that. Think about it...
1) No one except Shepard acknowledges the child. Anderson didn't see or hear him, the Alliance soldiers next to the evacuation shuttle didn't even glance at him, and no one else standing in the Normandy's loading hatch looks
at him either.
2) When Shepard looks away from the vent briefly and looks back, the child is gone. Could be he just crawled away, could be he disappeared.
3) "You can't help me" = psychological projection of "You can't save everyone."
The only thing that would refute this is the child being present at the very beginning playing with the toy ship, but even then...Shepard's the only one that saw him. I await your various replies, flames, and "Conspiricy Keanu" photos.
: end sequence
This honestly was the best post I have read on here in at least 2 weeks...I want to give you 2 gold stars and a apple scratch and sniff sticker for this.
#96
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:25
Excalceo
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Mei Mei wrote...
Arm chair psychology again... Cue dramatic music....
First off... Just because someone experiences a trauma does not mean they will experience the disorder of PTSD. MOST people who experience a trauma, either man made or based in nature, find a way to process the trauma and incorporate it into their view of the world. A few go on to experience the symptoms that are the disorder that is known as PTSD.
Now, let me make this clear. Hallucinations and/or delusions are in NO WAY present in Post Traumtic Stress Disorder. Not to say someone cannot be psychotic and have PTSD symptoms, that can happen. But it's is not a result of PTSD.
Now as for the claims of no one else seeing the child. I think they were all kind of busy looking up at the huge things smashing everything. Anderson was on the other side of the door that Shepard opened for him. The child could have crawled away. The child got into the shuttle, full of injured and scared people, on his own.
How does this make it a hallucination? It doesn't. You cannot tell at that moment, and in that context if it is or is not based in Shepards reality.
Clearly you know more about psychology than I do, perhaps PTSD was the wrong condition to attribute Shepard's potential mental degredation to. Reaper indoctrination or some influence of the like might be a more viable cause.
Modifié par Excalceo, 15 février 2012 - 08:52 .
#97
Guest_Mei Mei_*
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:32
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I would say the potential for Reaper indoctrination is quite high. Thus more likely as a possible theory. Thanks.Excalceo wrote...
Clearly you know more about psychology than I do, perhaps PTSD was the wrong condition to attribute Shepard's potential mental degredation to. Repear indoctrination or some influence of the like might be a more viable cause.
#98
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:33
Luigitornado
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Hmph...
Why can't it be just a child? The child's existence still has the same baring on the story: hopelessness.
I hate Froid.
Why can't it be just a child? The child's existence still has the same baring on the story: hopelessness.
I hate Froid.
Modifié par Luigitornado, 16 février 2012 - 01:24 .
#99
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:38
abnocte
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Excalceo wrote...
Mims wrote...
Take this as you will, but the child has his own artbook page devoted to him.
Fascinating...
New theory! Child is real in the opening sequence, actually dies. Later in the game he manifests as Shepard's psychological tormentor, a constant reminder of those who are continuously dying back on Earth...
Child: Everyone is dying...
Shepard: I know! I'm doing everything I can to help!
Child: How? You couldn't help me...
(Fades away)
I prefer this theory.
I think it could add a whole new level for roleplaying, but...I've played all Bioware games since BG, and only with the Bhaalspawn we were showed some our PC's subconscious. In this case it was throught nightmares.
So I'm holding my hopes down.
Aww, all this is making me remember how I loved the Farscape episodes where John Crichton got his head screwed!!
#100
Guest_Mei Mei_*
Posté 15 février 2012 - 08:39
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If this rang of any kind of psychoanalytic characteristics it would come down to penis envy on a female Shepards part or a statement about male Shepards father. XDLuigitornado wrote...
Hmph...
Why can't it be just a child? The child's existence still has the same baring of the story: hopelessness.
I hate Froid.
It was a joke.
