216 réponses à ce sujet

[Sweawm]

Hey, just remember that in Mass Effect 2: Arrival, Shepard was talking to himself.

*Shepard is alone and see's Project Solider* "We've been spotted!"

Then he go's on to narrate his own actions while nobody is around. Sure, it made sense development wise for the player to get a sense of what was going on, but then again: they could always tie it into the madness thing.

[TeffexPope]

Excalceo wrote...

: runtheorizingsequence.exe
: sequence running...

Here's something few have considered.  How do we know the child is real?  Bioware has stated several times that Shepard will be dealing with a little PTSD this time around, and the child could be a manifestation of that.  Think about it...

1) No one except Shepard acknowledges the child.  Anderson didn't see or hear him, the Alliance soldiers next to the evacuation shuttle didn't even glance at him, and no one else standing in the Normandy's loading hatch looks
at him either.

2) When Shepard looks away from the vent briefly and looks back, the child is gone.  Could be he just crawled away, could be he disappeared.

3) "You can't help me" = psychological projection of "You can't save everyone."

The only thing that would refute this is the child being present at the very beginning playing with the toy ship, but even then...Shepard's the only one that saw him.  I await your various replies, flames, and "Conspiricy Keanu" photos.

: end sequence

Damn thats deep, bright but most importantly, probably true. I found it strange that Anderson wasn't asking who Shepard was talking to in the vent scene. And in the beginning, he's again all alone running around with his model ship. No adult supervision? Nobody helping him onto the shuttle as hes staring right at the Reaper? Makes me wonder why I didn't think of this in the first place. OP is legendary

Modifié par TeffexPope, 16 février 2012 - 02:11 .

[TeffexPope]

lolwut

Modifié par TeffexPope, 16 février 2012 - 02:10 .

[KBomb]

TeffexPope wrote...

Damn thats deep, bright but most importantly, probably true. I found it strange that Anderson wasn't asking who Shepard was talking to in the vent scene. And in the beginning, he's again all alone running around with his model ship. No adult supervision? Nobody helping him onto the shuttle as hes staring right at the Reaper? Makes me wonder why I didn't think of this in the first place. OP is legendary

When Anderson returned to the room, Shepard was no longer talking to the kid. To Anderson, it could have seemed like Shepard was peering into the vent for another possible escape route, or maybe he thought Shepard just heard something. They were in a hurry. I doubt Anderson cared why Shepard was looking into a vent.

The only way this theory is deep is if you refuse to look past the fact that this kid was placed there to tug at heartstrings and give you a sense of “aww this sh!t just got real! A kid died!” and only want to see some complex hallucination that Shepard is having about a kid that he doesn’t know dying to give him a sense of losing innocents or helplessness or hopelessness or whatever reason he’d have for seeing this spectral child.

[Gemini1179]

KBomb wrote...

Gemini1179 wrote...

I've never encountered a kid who didn't turn to an adult when even the slightest traumatic event occurred. That basic child psychology 101. The child's actions, while atypical and improbable, are not impossible, however.

Aliens. Newt ran like hell from Ripley and the soldiers. If a child has found a relative state of safety, they may not be eager to leave that comfort zone, or to take a chance. If he had seen soldiers helping other people, and the soldiers and those people died--that would leave an impression.

I knew someone was going to bring up Newt. You're forgetting that Newt also spent 17+ days in that hell. In the Special Edition when her mom brings her dad out with a face hugger attached, she just screamed her head off.

[KBomb]

Gemini1179 wrote...

I knew someone was going to bring up Newt. You're forgetting that Newt also spent 17+ days in that hell. In the Special Edition when her mom brings her dad out with a face hugger attached, she just screamed her head off.

We can argue about what a fictional child would and would not do all day and night. It doesn’t negate my statement. If he had seen soldiers trying to save others and they were killed, it would leave an obvious impression that Shepard couldn’t save him. Which is exactly what he says.

You expected them to place a child in the vent begging Shepard to help him, crying for his mother and then what? You’d carry the kid around with you the entire time? “Oh, sure. I’ll take those husks out, Anderson. Just let me put this kid down.”

I imagine they gave him a calm/hopeless façade so that he could extract himself from Shepard to lead up to the death scene later. If this was a hallucination and they had this “figment of Shepard’s subconscious” die while fleeing in a shuttle instead of some other personal, meaningful way--then it’s shoddy at best. Why have him die at all, then?

[TeffexPope]

KBomb wrote...

TeffexPope wrote...

Damn thats deep, bright but most importantly, probably true. I found it strange that Anderson wasn't asking who Shepard was talking to in the vent scene. And in the beginning, he's again all alone running around with his model ship. No adult supervision? Nobody helping him onto the shuttle as hes staring right at the Reaper? Makes me wonder why I didn't think of this in the first place. OP is legendary

When Anderson returned to the room, Shepard was no longer talking to the kid. To Anderson, it could have seemed like Shepard was peering into the vent for another possible escape route, or maybe he thought Shepard just heard something. They were in a hurry. I doubt Anderson cared why Shepard was looking into a vent.

The only way this theory is deep is if you refuse to look past the fact that this kid was placed there to tug at heartstrings and give you a sense of “aww this sh!t just got real! A kid died!” and only want to see some complex hallucination that Shepard is having about a kid that he doesn’t know dying to give him a sense of losing innocents or helplessness or hopelessness or whatever reason he’d have for seeing this spectral child.

Despair is a theme running through that introduction. I really don't get what you're even saying, anyway.

[KBomb]

TeffexPope wrote...


Despair is a theme running through that introduction. I really don't get what you're even saying, anyway.

I am saying the kid was less to do with Shepard and more to do with the player. He was placed there as an emotion visual to make the player identify with the severity and loss of this war.

The kid is not a hallucination. When you’re running across the way with Anderson, before you shoot the husks, you can see the kid running into the building. It doesn’t make a point of Shepard seeing the kid. The player sees the kid. He runs into the building and obviously crawls into the vent before the reaper blew it up. If he were a hallucination--Shepard’s hallucination--it wouldn’t have shown the kid running into the building from the player’s perspective. It would have shown it from Shepard’s. Perhaps we’d have seen Shepard look over at the kid entering the building. It makes no sense that if this were Shepard’s hallucination, that we’d be privy to seeing him and not “Shepard”.

People want to see this as a hallucination to show some crack in Shepard’s sanity, when what it truly represents is a placard for the player’s emotion.

Modifié par KBomb, 16 février 2012 - 03:58 .

[lumen11]

Maria Caliban wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Yes, it is possible but doesn't Occam say that the simpler explanation (there was a child) is preferable to an convoluted one (Shepard is hallucinating?)

Occam's Razor refers to situations in real life.

ME3 was written by the same people who made Reapers abduct hundreds of thousands of humans so they could melt them into paste, squirt the paste into a giant terminator robot thing, which then acquires some value of humanness from the process, and meld that giant robot thing into an insectile space ship/carapace. Are these writers who think in simple explanations?

Elaborating on this:
Occam's Razor is used to predict the most probable course of events given certain clues.

Storytelling isn't about probability. There just needs to be enough of it to suspend the reader's disbelief in the story's plotting, which is inevitably artificial (even to some extent in non-fiction). One might even go so far as to say that storytelling is about convoluting a series of events as much as seems believable in order to manipulate the reader in some way (for example, to communicate a theme or surprise them with a twist).

KBomb wrote...

TeffexPope wrote...


Despair is a theme running through that introduction. I really don't get what you're even saying, anyway.

I
am saying the kid was less to do with Shepard and more to do with the
player. He was placed there as an emotion visual to make the player
identify with the severity and loss of this war.

The kid is not a
hallucination. When you’re running across the way with Anderson, before
you shoot the husks, you can see the kid running into the building. It
doesn’t make a point of Shepard seeing the kid. The player sees the kid.
He runs into the building and obviously crawls into the vent before the
reaper blew it up. If he were a hallucination--Shepard’s hallucination--it
wouldn’t have shown the kid running into the building from the player’s
perspective. It would have shown it from Shepard’s. Perhaps we’d have
seen Shepard look over at the kid entering the building. It makes no
sense that if this were Shepard’s hallucination, that we’d be privy to
seeing him and not “Shepard”.

People want to see this as a
hallucination to show some crack in Shepard’s sanity, when what it truly
represents is a placard for the player’s emotion.

Yeah, but shouldn't Shepard and the player's experience be one and the same? I know it's not that simple, ME being more of a player driven interactive cinematic story than a true RPG where the player becomes the character (I'm not sure that definition can apply to any computer game, by the way, but that's another discussion).

Anyway, if you seperate the two experiences (an interesting observation, so thank you for that), than the only way of making clear that we're seeing Shepard's perspective is by showing an actual interaction between Shepard and whatever he/she is seeing. But doing so every time the kid shows up would make it way to obvious that something is going on with the kid.

Now, there is more than one way of seeing this. If there was really a kid running around, who is watched by Shepard while playing with his little ship, the scene in the duct and afterwards could still be in Shepard's imagination.

Alternatively there was no kid at all and Shepard imagined him from the very first. In that case I could still buy the idea of Shepard seeing the kid run into the building in the corner of his eye, so to speak, as being part of his/her imagination.

Of course, all of this doesn't change the fact that the player is emotionally manipulated, admittedly somewhat unsubtily, to feel despair about the destruction of earth, but a hallucination storyline would give it some validity.

Modifié par lumen11, 16 février 2012 - 12:24 .

[Nizzemancer]

Excalceo wrote...

: runtheorizingsequence.exe
: sequence running...

Here's something few have considered.  How do we know the child is real?  Bioware has stated several times that Shepard will be dealing with a little PTSD this time around, and the child could be a manifestation of that.  Think about it...

1) No one except Shepard acknowledges the child.  Anderson didn't see or hear him, the Alliance soldiers next to the evacuation shuttle didn't even glance at him, and no one else standing in the Normandy's loading hatch looks
at him either.

2) When Shepard looks away from the vent briefly and looks back, the child is gone.  Could be he just crawled away, could be he disappeared.

3) "You can't help me" = psychological projection of "You can't save everyone."

The only thing that would refute this is the child being present at the very beginning playing with the toy ship, but even then...Shepard's the only one that saw him.  I await your various replies, flames, and "Conspiricy Keanu" photos.

: end sequence

I believe...in occams razor

[O3Hundred]

I read somewhere here yesterday that the kid was running away from Husks. I just replayed the demo, and he was just running into the building by himself. Noone was chasing him. Also, before the cutscene, the kid wasn't inside the vent. He appeared to be inside only at the cutscene itself.

Modifié par O3Hundred, 16 février 2012 - 01:58 .

[Excalceo]

As OP can I just say I am thoroughly disappointed with the utter lack of "Conspiracy Keanu" jokes...

...I expected more BSN...I expected more...

[VeR0se]

Good theory but my Shepard has been through a lot she was a spacer kid who was a sole survivor, if anything she should of suffered from PTSD earlier on and if she didnt why would she suddenly start suffering from it? Because she should have started that PTSD did **** halfway through ME1 if that were the case. ****ed up **** happened. Also, she didn't lose anyone but Ashley because no one died on my suicide mission.

[O3Hundred]

VeR0se wrote...

Good theory but my Shepard has been through a lot she was a spacer kid who was a sole survivor, if anything she should of suffered from PTSD earlier on and if she didnt why would she suddenly start suffering from it? Because she should have started that PTSD did **** halfway through ME1 if that were the case. ****ed up **** happened. Also, she didn't lose anyone but Ashley because no one died on my suicide mission.

Probably true, but the pressure of knowing the Reapers are coming back, and nobody but your squadmates is believing you, is really tough. It might just be the thing that pushed him into that state of mind.

[fatmancory]

This might be just me but, how did the kid get a toy of the Normandy? isn't it supposed to be classified?

just rewatched the begining and noticed that the ship wasnt the normandy. oops.

Modifié par fatmancory, 16 février 2012 - 03:20 .

[FRANCESCO84Inn]

the child its Prothean premonition, Shepard now its able to wathc into the features,

or the entere story for Mass Effect its also a Dream ?!

[VeR0se]

O3Hundred wrote...

VeR0se wrote...

Good theory but my Shepard has been through a lot she was a spacer kid who was a sole survivor, if anything she should of suffered from PTSD earlier on and if she didnt why would she suddenly start suffering from it? Because she should have started that PTSD did **** halfway through ME1 if that were the case. ****ed up **** happened. Also, she didn't lose anyone but Ashley because no one died on my suicide mission.

Probably true, but the pressure of knowing the Reapers are coming back, and nobody but your squadmates is believing you, is really tough. It might just be the thing that pushed him into that state of mind.

I'd like to think when I choose the renegade options when she says she feels fine and what not, I expect her to actually mean it. j/s

[Harbinger1985HU]

I didn1T read all the thread, just the first ones and the last ones.
Anyway, I have agree with the OP. It's makes sense, I have a similiar theory myself.

But, stop talking about Shepard goes insane. Think through what happaned to him:

1, Interact with a Prothean beacon, then it's know out him for 16 hours. Liara said most of the primitve species usually died that kind of thing.

2, That Asari consort "key" then the primitve human memories. Maybe alifetime and that man "visions".

3, Well, he's die. After 2 years he's been... hell know what kinda technoglogy Cerberus is used. Honestly I can't imagine anything is left from Shepard.

4, In ME2 he again find a beacon like Prothean thing, new memories which now shows him the Collectors. And don't forget what Liara said: with the beacon Shepard has a collective memory of a species!

5, The Reaper artifact on that asteroid.

6. Also that derlict Reaper where we find the IFF.


So, I say that kid somekind of symbol or more like lead for Shepard. A guide. Maybe he wil lhelp to find the truth and maybe the solution. Or maybe a trap like Nicole in Dead Space.
But I hope not just a cliché and an effect of bad writing.

[demon209]

 if you want to know in mass effect 1 you become specter but in mass effect 2 they derank u out of specter status and you a traiter but when u finish the 2 mission then when you can explore the normsandy go to the citadel and to the prisideom the you can become specter again

[Nathan Redgrave]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Yes, it is possible but doesn't Occam say that the simpler explanation (there was a child) is preferable to an convoluted one (Shepard is hallucinating?)

Unless it turns out to be a running theme throughout the game. And screw Occam. When I had just the vent scene to go on, I thought Shep was hallucinating, too.

Not to say I completely support this theory, but it's an interesting possibility to consider.

[demon209]

there tons of kids in mass effect 3 like there hiding from the invasions

[RGFrog]

If you watch the lower level just before starting to shoot the first husks with anderson, you'll see the kid run through the platform and open the door.

Imaginary children don't bother with doors...

[Nathan Redgrave]

RGFrog wrote...

If you watch the lower level just before starting to shoot the first husks with anderson, you'll see the kid run through the platform and open the door.

Imaginary children don't bother with doors...

Huh... didn't notice that.

Mind you, that is one badass kid, to have survived long enough to make it from there to where the shuttles at the end were. When you consider how Shep had to get down there, that's a pretty long distance to cover.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 21 février 2012 - 04:47 .

[nitefyre410]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

If you watch the lower level just before starting to shoot the first husks with anderson, you'll see the kid run through the platform and open the door.

Imaginary children don't bother with doors...

Huh... didn't notice that.

Mind you, that is one badass kid, to have survived long enough to make it from there to where the shuttles at the end were. When you consider how Shep had to get down there, that's a pretty long distance to cover.

 

he is small so he could probrably move through places  Shepard  and Anderson could not  - making it eaiser for  him not only to get around but also not be noticed.