105 réponses à ce sujet

[East4u]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

"A" button or spacebar doesn't seem like a big problem to me, you just have to get used to the feel of it, like exactly how far away from cover Shep will slide into instead of rolling, and so forth.  The real issue is the "revive" function also being assigned to "A", its terrible in MP.  Why not "X"??

Shouldn't you conceede that binding nearly every movement of your character to one button/key is not working as it should if they were each assigned a different key?  Sure you initially say it's not a problem but then you realize that healing/rez'ing added to the same key in MP is a big problem for you. 

I think we need to make it clear what exactly is assigned to the spacebar or A button in one fashion or another (SP/MP):
-Sprinting
-Sprinting Melee Attack
-Use
-Taking Cover
-Vaulting
-Rolling
-Healing


That's a lot of stuff assigned to one key/button !  We need the option to reassign those movements (or whatever you call it) to other keys/buttons. 

Modifié par East4u, 16 février 2012 - 09:24 .

[TheoCN]

I wish they remove some buttons from this game, it has SO many buttons that i cant play properly.
it uses 1 whole button to walk forward!!! Can you believe in this?
and it doesn't stop there, it uses ANOTHER button to walk to the right and ANOTHER to the left!
I cant play a game like this? what am i supposed to do if i wanna shoot someone? To use another button, or even worst, another HAND?

I think the game should have only one or 2 buttons, that would be much better and easier for us to play. One button could walk and also shoot if someone shows up ahead. BTW, scratch that, why do i have to press a button if there is an enemy ahead of me? OFC i wanna shoot him, so if someone shows up, just auto shoot. It makes much more sense. Also, why a button to walk? if there is nothing in the room, just auto-walk to wherever i need to go, no point in having to MANUALLY moving my character over there.

Yeah. One game like this would be legen.. wait for it...dary!!

And some people say there are not dumbing down the game since ME1.

[East4u]

Here's another thing, at the beginning of the game you have to choose:
Action
Role Playing
Story

If Action and Role Playing allow us to adjust the difficulty of combat then why so many movements of combat is assigned to one key? I was expecting to be able to reassign keys if those options were selected.

Modifié par East4u, 16 février 2012 - 11:31 .

[Unit-Alpha]

One major mistake: if you have a dynamic cover system, allow people to go around corners in the cover while remaining in cover. The way it is now is horrible.

[mybudgee]

I support almost everything in this thread. I ask myself ; 'will I adjust to this?' Yeah, probably. Ten-thousand dollar question; 'was it REALLY too much to ask that the gameplay mechanics from ME2 be left alone!? And not jimmied with? Can we get the combat streamlined and improved without and overhaul?' This is the impression I got watching the trailers, but sadly seems to not be the case..

Modifié par mybudgee, 16 février 2012 - 07:28 .

[SirBrass]

Radwar wrote...

I also hate this 1 button for all. It causes more problems than it solves. ME2 had this problem aswell with the storm/go to cover into 1 button. You would want to run across a room to escape and Shepard would go to cover on every object close by. Problem is you would be on the wrong side and get shot down. I understand that gamepads has few buttons, but this isn't necesary for a keyboard so why not give PC users the option to bind those keys seperately?

THey could fix this by actually using the R3/L3 buttons for separate functions and use them for something useful rather than useless generic arrows.  Give us back a functional mini-map.

[Poison_Berrie]

East4u wrote...

Playing the game as intended. 
spacekey controls taking cover, helps in sprinting, "use", rolling, healing and anything else I forgot.  Problem I'm seeing is that using just one key creates a mystery result depending on where you are on that portion of the map/game and what you intended to do. 

I have to point out that on the PC you can assign a different key to reviving/healing in MP without it effecting cover/roll/sprint/use.

[Wulfram]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

One major mistake: if you have a dynamic cover system, allow people to go around corners in the cover while remaining in cover. The way it is now is horrible.

Pressing the middle mouse button does this for me on PC.  Though it seems a bit temperamental about actually working.

[Alan_Grey]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

One major mistake: if you have a dynamic cover system, allow people to go around corners in the cover while remaining in cover. The way it is now is horrible.

I think this is much more useful in a sneak-em-up than during combat, but might improve things. It seems like something that would need to be built in from the start though, as enviornments and models would have to be marked up with "corner" areas, and all of that tested, etc... Edit: you can do this, middle button, oops!

One thing I've noticed is the difficulty in getting in/out of cover, whether it's trying to get in and failing, or feeling "stuck". Anything that ends with mashing keys is an annoyance.

The problem with combat roll isn't, in my opinion, how effective the roll is or the quality of the animation. My problem with it is that what I want to do is run sideways, and I can't do that optimally without pressing left/right + space at the same time. It's not easy in my opinion to learn to put a little pause in there in order to avoid rolling. Just make the roll happen when you double-tap space in any direction, and I think most of the issues on this thread will be resolved.

The Batman: Arkham games do this kind of thing very well, double taps acting differently to single taps, although the second one goes perhaps too far in the number of moves performed in context, to the point where instructions are on screen at all times

Modifié par Alan_Grey, 16 février 2012 - 08:33 .

[macrocarl]

I got the hang of it eventually, but yeah, at first I was like HEY SHEP COME BACK! But eventually it works out. Practice!

[East4u]

macrocarl wrote...

I got the hang of it eventually, but yeah, at first I was like HEY SHEP COME BACK! But eventually it works out. Practice!

 
   wut? I don't think you understand, at all, what the compliant is regarding one key/button to controlling nearly all movement in game.  It has nothing to do with practice but consistency.  It's very clear, if you read, that everyone posting here is aware of what the A/spacekey does and how to use it.  The problem is getting a consistent result from why you want to use A/spacekey!  Which is why we are asking for the ability to make the 7 or so different movements bound to one key/button into muiltiple keys/buttons.

Modifié par East4u, 16 février 2012 - 09:24 .

[raider_1001]

macrocarl wrote...
Practice!

Sure, I got hang of it eventally, but the main problem is that the key combo logic still makes no sense.

Senario 1: You are rushing to a cover in front of you, you suddenly notice that your aim is off. When under pressure, you may unconscious let go the space key while holding the forward key, press the left/right key, and then repress the space key. Instead of the intended tweak in aim, you rolled into a new position because the control can't tell forward + any key + space = storm in a new direction.

Senario 2: You are moving to a corner of cover by pressing the left/right key, only to be suprised by an enemy that tries to smack you on the head with their baton. Now, since you got jumped, you may forget to let go of the left/right key while trying to press the forward/backward + space key combo to break out of cover. Instead of breaking out of cover, you sticked youself into another cover 3 feet away in a SWAT turn and got smacked in the head regardless, because the control can't tell forward/backward + any key + space = break cover.

If ME3 did not increase the combat tempo I wouldn't nitpick on control details like this. But since ME3 did all that and did not leave a lot time for player to think about the effect of their key combos, such lack of understanding in human factor design is unacceptable.

Modifié par raider_1001, 16 février 2012 - 08:41 .

[Psynonamous635]

I have to agree with nearly everything... In ME1 you had the option to crouch whenever/where-ever you wanted, out in an open space you could crouch to line up a shot, you could move while crouched down. ME2 merged run/crouch/cover into one single button, I think it has to do with ME2 being the first of the series made for consoles. The controls in ME3 for PC are almost random, I re-task to shift to run/cover/roll/crouch/use/dodge/dip/duck/dive/...dodge and the results are almost always random.

Although, with the demo I found if I hit shift (or space as the stock option) twice does a roll every time, holding shift sometimes runs and sometimes covers - but the main issue is, during a fire fight I want (on insanity -need-) to run and instead I go into cover, or when I need to cover I jump over the cover straight into enemy crossfire, why one magic xbox button when the PC has so many other options? I would really like it if somebody fixed ME2 and ME3 to allow crouch at any time, and seperate buttons for roll, cover, etc etc.

To sum up my rant, multi-button sucks - but other than that I am really looking forward to the full version of ME3.

[Crimson_red]

I've certainly found the 'Omni-button' sluggish and unresponsive on the PC.

If I'm in cover, hitting the direction keys to tumble to the side or storm forward, the time the system takes to acknowledge the change is about double I use the implement the change (causing the previously selected option to occur).

Selecting an object I have targeted is unresponsive sometimes; there seems to be a dead-zone where the indicator for the object is active, but you are too far away to activate the object, often performing another action like take cover instead.

Cover can be a little to sticky at times, pulling you in if you stray a little too close, making it feel a little sloppy and loose.

I've been able to adjust my play style to fit the responsiveness of the command, i.e. delay long enough for the correct function to become available, but it can be frustrating when you find yourself in a tough spot and need to move fast. I think the single button command/cover system could work well, but everything needs to be tightened up; mode changes faster, activation zones tightened, and cover-locks made a little smaller. If this could all be done I'd be very pleased.

[somecthemes]

I'm really hoping most of the adjustment will take place as we play, much like how differences in insanity from ME 1 to 2 forced adjustments to playstyles. A option to reasign the command would seem a simple fix, but let's all just hope over the next couple of weeks, that we'll be singing praises for the fluidity of combat and ease of transitioning, once we've gotten used to it, as I doubt there's much chance that the control scheme will be changing.
Though, since I play xbox, I'm concidering just renaming my 'A' button, in the mean time, to "random action" button, since I can almost never predict the outcome of pressing it with certainty.

[siltsonata]

Yeah I had a lot of trouble too. Especially since Shepard needs to be much more mobile this time around; I need to know that she's going to get into cover when I want her to and not roll into enemy fire.

[Kaylord]

After doing some insanity runs, I find that in the area with the engineer towers, I die most of the time because I roll somewhere instead of sprinting or taking cover. Very annoying. Seperate keys for running, taking cover and rolling must be added as an option. This tripple-button thing is to unreliable. Also, I have more issues in taking cover than before in ME2, as I oftenly get stuck someplace short before the cover. On insanity, those fractions of seconds tear you apart, especially when turrets or grenades are involved.

[sp0ck 06]

East4u wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

I got the hang of it eventually, but yeah, at first I was like HEY SHEP COME BACK! But eventually it works out. Practice!

 
   wut? I don't think you understand, at all, what the compliant is regarding one key/button to controlling nearly all movement in game.  It has nothing to do with practice but consistency.  It's very clear, if you read, that everyone posting here is aware of what the A/spacekey does and how to use it.  The problem is getting a consistent result from why you want to use A/spacekey!  Which is why we are asking for the ability to make the 7 or so different movements bound to one key/button into muiltiple keys/buttons.

Once you play for a while in MP you'll get the hang of it.  It's almost as smooth as the Gears controls, just give it some time.  It's much better than ME2.

I mean honestly, you guys are all saying its 7 things bound to the same button but thats not really true.

In space: Hold for sprint, Tap for Roll
In cover:  Foward+A: Vault, Back+A: roll back, etc

Youll get a feel for it.  Its now very easy to sprint and slide into cover, and the stick is pretty responive to rolling, enabling fast diagnoal rolls through doorways and such, or diving past enemies.

Right now my only real issues are that revive should be X and the double tapping of A to hop over cover doesn't work well at all.

[somecthemes]

I mean honestly, you guys are all saying its 7 things bound to the same button but thats not really true.
In space: Hold for sprint, Tap for Roll
In cover: Foward+A: Vault, Back+A: roll back, etc

These controls work well for you, whereas I found the same in cover movements could just as easily send me to a completely different cover not even in direct line of sight to Shep. Indending to quickly slide into cover, you suddenly find your Shep parading is backside to the enemy, when you just intended to slip to the next block of cover inline with your current one.
I'd have to say the whole "double-tap to roll" idea is looking like a really good idea for fixing a lot of these hang ups, as the slide to another cover option shouldn't also have the chance of accidentally triggering a roll to some odd angle of cover or into the middle patch of ground between. It may seem petty from a bunch of people who were in love with the previous two games, but I can't help thinking that players new to the series will only have greater issues.

[sp0ck 06]

somecthemes wrote...

I mean honestly, you guys are all saying its 7 things bound to the same button but thats not really true.
In space: Hold for sprint, Tap for Roll
In cover: Foward+A: Vault, Back+A: roll back, etc

These controls work well for you, whereas I found the same in cover movements could just as easily send me to a completely different cover not even in direct line of sight to Shep. Indending to quickly slide into cover, you suddenly find your Shep parading is backside to the enemy, when you just intended to slip to the next block of cover inline with your current one.
I'd have to say the whole "double-tap to roll" idea is looking like a really good idea for fixing a lot of these hang ups, as the slide to another cover option shouldn't also have the chance of accidentally triggering a roll to some odd angle of cover or into the middle patch of ground between. It may seem petty from a bunch of people who were in love with the previous two games, but I can't help thinking that players new to the series will only have greater issues.

Do you have the arrows enabled that tell you what action A is going to perform?

Like I said, I thought it seemed clunky and inconsistent at first, but after some solid hours in the MP, I've got it down and can navigate extremely well through, around, and over the environments

[East4u]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

East4u wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

I got the hang of it eventually, but yeah, at first I was like HEY SHEP COME BACK! But eventually it works out. Practice!

 
   wut? I don't think you understand, at all, what the compliant is regarding one key/button to controlling nearly all movement in game.  It has nothing to do with practice but consistency.  It's very clear, if you read, that everyone posting here is aware of what the A/spacekey does and how to use it.  The problem is getting a consistent result from why you want to use A/spacekey!  Which is why we are asking for the ability to make the 7 or so different movements bound to one key/button into muiltiple keys/buttons.

Once you play for a while in MP you'll get the hang of it.  It's almost as smooth as the Gears controls, just give it some time.  It's much better than ME2.

I don't think you understand the situation here.  You response as if we are having a problem with what A/spacekey does.  It's not hard to figure out since nearly all the players actions are bound to one key/button .  This is not the discussion of what's going on therefore, there is no need to say we will get the "hang of it" if we keep trying through repetition.  The problem is through repetition the results we want to do using A/spacekey are different then what we intend for them to do.  As a result of having 7 or so different movements tied to one key/button it's not hard to believe there is some odd overlap in commanding your character to do something you didn't intend for it to do.

So, regardless of how many times we keep trying to use the same key/button it won't change the fact that we don't get consistent results.  Therefore, it would make sense to give us the option to remap certain movements to other keys.  Besides, if I select either Action or Role Playing then I should be able to make adjustments to combat. Remapping keys/buttons isn't a hard request.

Modifié par East4u, 16 février 2012 - 11:32 .

[apoc_reg]

Its a massive turn off isnt it.

If you are going to force the PC control scheme on us then why is this clearly controller centric limitation still present??

Let me bind these actons as i wish.

I dont know why we even bother though, all these complaints where true for mass effect 2 and clearly Bioware have taken zero notice of its PC audience.

[sp0ck 06]

East4u wrote...

sp0ck 06 wrote...

East4u wrote...

macrocarl wrote...

I got the hang of it eventually, but yeah, at first I was like HEY SHEP COME BACK! But eventually it works out. Practice!

 
   wut? I don't think you understand, at all, what the compliant is regarding one key/button to controlling nearly all movement in game.  It has nothing to do with practice but consistency.  It's very clear, if you read, that everyone posting here is aware of what the A/spacekey does and how to use it.  The problem is getting a consistent result from why you want to use A/spacekey!  Which is why we are asking for the ability to make the 7 or so different movements bound to one key/button into muiltiple keys/buttons.

Once you play for a while in MP you'll get the hang of it.  It's almost as smooth as the Gears controls, just give it some time.  It's much better than ME2.

I don't think you understand the situation here.  You response as if we are having a problem with what A/spacekey does.  It's not hard to figure out since nearly all the players actions are bound to one key/button .  This is not the discussion of what's going on therefore, there is no need to say we will get the "hang of it" if we keep trying through repetition.  The problem is through repetition the results we want to do using A/spacekey are different then what we intend for them to do.  As a result of having 7 or so different movements tied to one key/button it's not hard to believe there is some odd overlap in commanding your character to do something you didn't intend for it to do.

So, regardless of how many times we keep trying to use the same key/button it won't change the fact that we don't get consistent results.  Therefore, it would make sense to give us the option to remap certain movements to other keys.  Besides, if I select either Action or Role Playing and both clearly state this allows for adjustable combat difficulty then asking for remapping keys/buttons isn't a hard request.

Yes i know what you are saying.  What I'm telling you is that for me, the awkwardness of the A button use wore off once I had played the MP for many hours.  You just develop a "feel" for the mechanics.  Because how can you say "we've all consistently experienced this" after playing a very short SP demo?  Unless everyone here's been playing MP, which it doesn't seem like, you haven't really been able to for an extended time in a large map setting.

[East4u]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Yes i know what you are saying.  What I'm telling you is that for me, the awkwardness of the A button use wore off once I had played the MP for many hours.  You just develop a "feel" for the mechanics.  Because how can you say "we've all consistently experienced this" after playing a very short SP demo?  Unless everyone here's been playing MP, which it doesn't seem like, you haven't really been able to for an extended time in a large map setting.

You still don't understand what's going on .  As you think by stating what you posted somehow governs all other complaints about the one button/key problem we are having.  Sure, you can say you've gotten use to being stuck on corners, not being able to activate certain objects when you wanted the 1st time, roll instead of run, etc.  Because you've grown accustom to the awkwardness of the one button solution.  But that's really isn't a well thought out reply is it?  The true answer is the ability to remap those movements.  Nothing more nothing else. 

You posting that "it's fine for you" really isn't a solution for the rest of us who want to remap keys/buttons. As you already imply that our preferences are different...aren't they? While you seem to imply that what we are experiencing is fine for you we would simply like the option to avoid situations that cause inconsistent character movement by having the ability to remap those movements to different keys/buttons.


 

Modifié par East4u, 16 février 2012 - 10:47 .

[Senior Cinco]

It's ok...
You will get use to it...
Play MP for a while...
Why? I don't have the slightest interest in playing that kid infested mess.

It will be just like AC. The kiddie crowd destroyed that scene. they will do the same with ME3. As a matter of fact I think that's the reason behind most of the things that are complained about. If Bioware had not been distracted with this MP crap, they would have had time to spend on getting things to work right in the regular game.

Just like Ubi screwed up the intro ans story in ACR. I played 20 minutes and shelved the game. I hope that is not the case with ME3. Right now that is still up in the air.