351 réponses à ce sujet

[kingsims]

Tactical Cloak, Combat Drone, Adrenaline Rush, Biotic Charge (Okay this power is average until you unlock its final evolution when it shines) are much better class powers with no penalties.

Remove the detonation, remove the damage reduction and instead use shield recharge rate plus remove the stupid power cool down penalty completely (at its final evolution vs an increased recharge rate). I think it would be balanced then.

[rumination888]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

But how is the criteria you are using, for comparison, not subjective?

If this wasn't a game with a defined goal, I would agree that its subjective.
But this game is not a sandbox. The criteria for getting from point A to point B is made faster and easier with certain abilities. You can't progress through the game unless you kill an enemy.

Modifié par rumination888, 21 février 2012 - 06:09 .

[Twizz089]

kingsims wrote...

Tactical Cloak, Combat Drone, Adrenaline Rush, Biotic Charge (Okay this power is average until you unlock its final evolution when it shines) are much better class powers with no penalties.

Remove the detonation, remove the damage reduction and instead use shield recharge rate plus remove the stupid power cool down penalty completely (at its final evolution vs an increased recharge rate). I think it would be balanced then.

The main problem I have with tech armor is that it is worthless without upgrades.  It is not until it is fully upgraded that it becomes somewhat ok to walk around in it. 

Because of this I think the  damage bonus should be baseline (maybe 10% and having it increase to 20% through upgrades)

 I still think there is potential in the ability to detonate, but instead of doing damage maybe a short stun or knockdown so you can use it defensively to create space.  I think it would also be interesting to have the 20% damage bonus only take effect for maybe 10 secs after a detonation

[Praetor Knight]

rumination888 wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

But how is the criteria you are using, for comparison, not subjective?

If this wasn't a game with a defined goal, I would agree that its subjective.
But this game is not a sandbox. The criteria for getting from point A to point B is made faster and easier with certain abilities. You can't progress through the game unless you kill an enemy.

By that criteria, yeah the Sentinel falls behind a fair bit.

[Praetor Knight]

BrotherWarth wrote...

What other criteria would we use?

I've been using survivability mostly.

[luckyloser_62]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

But how is the criteria you are using, for comparison, not subjective?

If this wasn't a game with a defined goal, I would agree that its subjective.
But this game is not a sandbox. The criteria for getting from point A to point B is made faster and easier with certain abilities. You can't progress through the game unless you kill an enemy.

By that criteria, yeah the Sentinel falls behind a fair bit.

How exactly does the sentinel fall behind in damage? it is the only class that can use both biotic explosions and tech burts in ME3, it has two of the best damage powers in the game (warp & overload), and it has added defence as well.  It even gets a bonus to weapon damage in its passive, and since it has a higher weight capacity that either of the other caster classes it can even use the added bonus to offset the cooldown penalty caused by tech armor. I can kill just as fast or faster than any other class, not to mention the fact that it provides better all around support for your squad than any class other than possibly the engineer.

[TevinterMagister]

If detonating TA refilled my shields by at least 50% of full capacity I might even treat it as an active skill, and it's fair considering the long cooldown after detonation. In it's current form it's effectively a passive skill to increase defense and power/melee damage, at least for my character as I have plenty of other powers to use.

[rumination888]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

What other criteria would we use?

I've been using survivability mostly.

Survivability is only one facet in helping to get from point A to point B.

But if we talk solely about survivability(not durability, but survivability), then ME2 tech armor still can't hold a candle to tactical cloak.

Modifié par rumination888, 21 février 2012 - 09:26 .

[scotkrow]

Everything involving video games and game play is a matter of opinion, for example, I found the Sentinel boring to play in ME2 because the tech armor made it too easy to waltz through the game like I wasn't under enemy fire. With the Soldier and Infiltrator I had to take cover watch myself, and view the field in a tactical manner, with the vanguard I had to move fast, watch myself and get assistance from my squad, adepts also had to cover and I'll throw out powers to control the field and use my squad mates to help take down enemy defenses. As a Sentinel I didn't feel challenged, and so it is a complete matter of opinion that I think tech armor needed a downgrade, but they could have made those a little less severe. I also want to rolplay a class, and in my mind an sentinel needs to hangout back trow out powers, then use tech armor as a bonus defense to make moving from cover to cover easier. Not charge up and be a boss tank.

[scotkrow]

No it can beig time, Tac cloak wasn't all that good at helping you survive, it just helped you go unnoticed and flank enemies, the Sentinel should not have tech armor, it should have something that makes it better at it's support roll, not turn it into a defender/tank.

[Taleroth]

The definition of a sentinel is as a guardian. Whatever role it fills should be defender.

[scotkrow]

Then the class is very poorly named.  Or you should view its name in a slightly abstract form, it's a guardian in that it protects it's allies in a supportive roll.

Modifié par scotkrow, 21 février 2012 - 04:25 .

[Taleroth]

That's simply untenable. Not all quests even allow allies or a full compliment of such.

[scotkrow]

Then the class is very poorly named.  Or you should view its name in a slightly abstract form, it's a guardian in that it protects it's allies in a supportive roll.
And here's the Dictionary defenition of the word Sentinel: 1. a person or thing that watches or stands as if watching.

and is untenable even a word?

Modifié par scotkrow, 21 février 2012 - 04:32 .

[Taleroth]

Here's number 2.
a soldier stationed as a guard to challenge all comers and prevent a surprise attack: to stand sentinel.

Here's another.
World English Dictionarysentinel  (ˈsɛntɪn ə l)  — n1.a person, such as a sentry, assigned to keep guard

scotkrow wrote...

and is untenable even a word?

  You broke out the dictionary. Look it up.

Modifié par Taleroth, 21 février 2012 - 04:32 .

[scotkrow]

The definition pertains to a watchman, someone who is simply a guard by standing watch. A guardian is a protector, and the sentinel class does the best job of protecting by standing back in a supporting roll, like a guard on the wall of a castle raining arrows down on the enemy while they fight the warriors (read soldier/vanguard classes)

Well your 'untenable' statement is currently ringing false, the sentinal plays like a controller, except for the tech armor, and at this point all both of us are doing is argueing interpretation of words.

And one more thing!  The sentinel can play those solo missions best with it's powers from cover.  It does the exact same thing, only instead of supporting squad mates, it stands guard on it's position to keep the enemies at bay.  (Hold the line!)

Modifié par scotkrow, 21 février 2012 - 04:46 .

[Taleroth]

A man who guards by standing watch is a guard and protector. There's no other genuine role for guarding. The whole jumping in front of bullets trope is not one we have much language for because it's barely a thing. Even a 'tank' is an artillery piece.

The position of support role is not a rational design.  Control is adept schtick, anyway. Singularity and stasis are kings of control.

Modifié par Taleroth, 21 février 2012 - 04:45 .

[scotkrow]

I'm thinking from a dnd stand point, where as a controller you can either control through moving enemies, or by affecting enemy defenses. Tech is defense control, and biotics are enemy placement control. I guess if anything you should actually view the sentinel class as a leader, despite its bad naming, and leaders aid their defender, striker and designated controller.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Sentinel seems pretty crappy now, I guess I'll go with soldier. There really isn't a good opportunity for tanking anymore. ME1=> Infiltrator or Soldier w/ Immunity, ME2=> Sentinel with Tech Armour, ME3=> ???

[luckyloser_62]

scotkrow wrote...

I'm thinking from a dnd stand point, where as a controller you can either control through moving enemies, or by affecting enemy defenses. Tech is defense control, and biotics are enemy placement control. I guess if anything you should actually view the sentinel class as a leader, despite its bad naming, and leaders aid their defender, striker and designated controller.

Thats pretty much how I roll my sentinel. I really don't understand why people are complaining so much about the sentinel. The 40% damage protection really is nice, and the only thing that I think really got nerfed was the detonation radius, which could be much better. They didn't nerf the class they just changed it to fill its roll better. In DnD terms it is a battle caster. It is kind of a front line mage. You can see this in its passive. It gets better bonuses to buff the squad most of the other classes, it is even the only caster class to get a buff to weapon damage in its passive. It is an all around good class that can be the center of any squad. And people keep forgetting that you can get a bonus. If you want to be an unkillable tank just take anohter shield power as your bonus and you will be even more indestructable than in the last game.

[scotkrow]

Well by those terms it sounds more like a leader if it's buffing the squad. In my mind I play the soldier like a defender, the vanguard and infiltrators like strikers, the adept as a controller, and the engineer and sentinel like leaders.

And I would take the 6 person team into any dungeon to fight any dragon,  haha!

Modifié par scotkrow, 21 février 2012 - 05:17 .

[luckyloser_62]

Ehh, not really a leader if they buff their allies, but a good leader will make their team perform more efficiently, inspire them and all that jazz. I see the passive buffs to your squad as reflecting this

[Taleroth]

scotkrow wrote...

I'm thinking from a dnd stand point, where as a controller you can either control through moving enemies, or by affecting enemy defenses. Tech is defense control, and biotics are enemy placement control. I guess if anything you should actually view the sentinel class as a leader, despite its bad naming, and leaders aid their defender, striker and designated controller.

Protections aren't defenses. They're just other health bars.

Controller in 4E originally focused on doing AoEs to control movement. If they affect defenses, that must have come after I stopped playing around essentials.

[scotkrow]

Controllers leaders and strikers all have abilities that can be used to de-buff enemies. And there are no real defences in ME, so the protections are the best you got, and armor is like AC, shields are like Fort, Barriers are like Will, and health is obviously HP. The new cool things where they actually try to dodge and the like is like Ref.