351 réponses à ce sujet

[TevinterMagister]

It's just a name, take for instance the SW:ToR Sentinel, it's an advanced class of Jedi Knight. And that class is a pure dual wielding dps class along with it's mirror class the Sith Marauder. But I kinda wish there was some consistency as to what BW want with this class, doesn't seem like they can make up their mind. ME1 you had Bastion/Medic, ME2 Guardian/Raider, and now it's offensive mastery. We've come full circle in the holy trinity of rpg, Healer/Tank/DPS.

[scotkrow]

Leader/Defender/Striker

[Ahms]

I hated the sentinel in 1 with a passion. Loved it like a child in 2, and now hate it again like a teenager.

[frustratemyself]

I've always loved Sentinals. Tech armour doesn't look to be as good anymore since it adds so much to your power cool down.
In the mp they make a good support biotic if you've got an Adept in the team so you can set off biotic explosions.

[Ahms]

I will say this, though: The Turian Sentinel in MP is solid, 24 karat gold.

[Praetor Knight]

luckyloser62 wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

But how is the criteria you are using, for comparison, not subjective?

If this wasn't a game with a defined goal, I would agree that its subjective.
But this game is not a sandbox. The criteria for getting from point A to point B is made faster and easier with certain abilities. You can't progress through the game unless you kill an enemy.

By that criteria, yeah the Sentinel falls behind a fair bit.

How exactly does the sentinel fall behind in damage? it is the only class that can use both biotic explosions and tech burts in ME3, it has two of the best damage powers in the game (warp & overload), and it has added defence as well.  It even gets a bonus to weapon damage in its passive, and since it has a higher weight capacity that either of the other caster classes it can even use the added bonus to offset the cooldown penalty caused by tech armor. I can kill just as fast or faster than any other class, not to mention the fact that it provides better all around support for your squad than any class other than possibly the engineer.

Oh, not damage, I meant falls behind in terms of speed in ME2 gameplay. As in, slower than the ability to clear an area as quickly as a Soldier or overtake a spawn point as quickly as with a Vanguard or Engineer.

I happen to like what I've seen of the Sentinel in ME3 so far, except for the reduced blast radius of Tech Armor at this point.

rumination888 wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

What other criteria would we use?

I've been using survivability mostly.

Survivability is only one facet in helping to get from point A to point B.

But if we talk solely about survivability(not durability, but survivability), then ME2 tech armor still can't hold a candle to tactical cloak.

I disagree to an extent, since that partly depends on the skill of the player. Cloak is a very effective power, but its does have a few draw backs in ME2 that I figure take getting used to.

For example, the frozen health regen can be a problem at times, and the fact that squadmates essentially become sentient drones for enemy target practice can leave Shepard solo at inopportune times (but then again, going solo may be the point other times).

Whereas, ME2 Tech Armor, especially Assault Armor, does not really have any really bothersome drawbacks related to survivability, except for maybe detonating when one didn't want or need to. And then that cooldown reset can allow the player to use squadmate powers more often, where CC powers would be of benefit to keep fire off of Shepard and the squad, depending on the situation.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 22 février 2012 - 02:44 .

[Graunt]

People in this thread getting caught up in Sentinel "was a god" hype and now trying to preach it as a gospel, when they're completely wrong. The Sentinel did one thing better than anyone else, just like every class other than the Adept did one thing better than anyone else.

We don't know how things will look with upgrades in ME3, but this whole "Sentinel needed a nerf" propaganda is just gibberish.  The class didn't need neutered.  And for the record, they weren't my favorite class.

rumination888 wrote...
And I still don't understand why people keep bringing up Tech Armor as if it was overpowered in ME2.

Overpowered compared to what?

Adrenaline Rush? lol.
Charge? Not even close.
Tactical Cloak? Nope.
Combat Drone? Debatable.
Singularity? Sure.

Charge got a huge buff with the whole weight capacity thing, AR got buffs in its upgrade path. Tac Cloak didn't change much at all. Combat Drone got a buff. Singularity, along with numerous other powers that were only good
against unprotected enemies, got buffed.

Seems like BioWare devs were listening to feedback when designing powers and decided to nerf Tech Armor because there wern't enough people saying how overpowered the Soldier, Vanguard, and Infiltrator are.

This.  At least try to pretend you have an idea how all of the classes play if you're going to spew nonsense and try to get others to swallow it.

Twizz089 wrote...
Everyone
has their own opinion which is fine.  As good as AR was and is, imo ME2 Tech Armor was better.  With one power you could do insane damage for 5seconds every 8 seconds, with the other you for the most part couldnt
be killed  and you could reset the cooldown times of your squadmates so that they could cast moves back to back.

Insane damage, for 5 seconds every 8 seconds is a lot better than "being invincible" (which you definitely were not 100% of the time like you keep exaggerating) doing mediocre damage.  While you might LIKE Tech Armor more than Adrenaline Rush, in no shape or form is Tech Armor even equal.  And honestly, what made Tech Armor seem somewhat "broken" was not the protection it offered, but the cooldown resets that was accidentally left in.

Modifié par Graunt, 22 février 2012 - 04:25 .

[Xtreme-Tiramisu]

I recently just completed an Insanity run on my Sentinel in ME2 and really loved it in every aspect you can think of. No I didn't go with the Assault route cos that would just defeat the purpose of having my Vanguard as a true close range combat biotic specialist I used to swear that Vanguard is the most fun class to play in ME2 until I got a taste of the versatile complete control of the Sentinel.

Now to this topic, it's a very sad news indeed for all the drawback the new tech armor has in ME3. For me I love staying at mid/long range and dominate the battlefield as a Commander Shepard Sentinel..I don't really care about detonation radius cos I rarely get in close range. For me I think close range gameplay should be Vanguard's special treat, that's at least how I view it but every player has the right to play watever the way he like. But now many of the core abilities of tech armor are stripped away from ME2...and Tech armor is Sentinel's unique class ability..I fear that I may have to give up the fun I had in ME2 and go back to Vanguard...tho charge/shotgun in face/ repeat gets really repeatative and boring in the long run...For now Sentinel is my favorite class if you like to use ur brain than brawn in the battlefield.

Without almost all the benefits of Tech armor from ME2, I don't really know WHAT's the definition of Sentinel anymore. As quoted from ME2: "Sentinel is nearly invincinble, they're like a juggernaut on the battlefield." Now nerfed TA gives Sentinel nothing like that anymore. I don't understand why some people complained about "Sentinel" were being OP in ME2. C'mon "Sentinel" and "OP" ? Get it? They're specifically build as a tank class. If you think the idea of a juggernaut is OP? Play another class then, maybe this is not the kind of gameplay style that suits your liking. As for balancing issue..they should give a separate stats for TA in MP and kept a similar stats TA like in ME2 for SP. In my experience with other MMORPG, dev always make separate stats for PvP and PvE. If ME series is mainly build as a MP game, then I'd understand why the drastic change in TA in ME3 but clearly, Sentinel is nerfed compare to other classes in ME3. I didn't start my ME career just to get into "balancing" issues again like every other MMORPGs out there. I enjoy ME as a SP RPG/FPS, but now this "balacing" crap BS strikes since the introduction of MP which I don't care about AT ALL. ME's main selling point is its immensive RP story experience. If I wanted to get into MP, there are TONs of other great MP games out there with just as many balancing BS that will never end for as long as the game's servers are active. TA is Sentinel's unique ability and core selling point besides they're known to be the most versatile class in the game. "Jack of all trades, master of none?" well in ME3 Sentinel is Jack of all trade, master of none, true but almost a worthless class sorry to say. I'm dissapointed in the changes. While other classes shine even more with their unique abilities buff, a least favorite class Sentinel got nerfed is something I didn't anticipated until now. Thanks for the news.

Modifié par Xtreme-Tiramisu, 22 février 2012 - 05:21 .

[Priisus]

Just tried MP today and got to say what a huge difference it makes when you can select your weapon loadout.

ME1 Shepard Sentinel doesn't hold much charm to me but I greatly enjoy having Kaidan in my party. And then ME2 came along and I got hooked on the Sentinel, easily my favorite class in the game. After getting all the Tech & Biotic power, duration and cooldown upgrades, the Sentinel is a beast in Insanity (Vasir battle is a serious joke for a Sentinel).

Now for ME3, I think people are judging the class and Tech Armor too quick based on the Surkesh part of the demo. I probably wouldn't have noticed it much myself if I hadn't tried the MP. Since you're forced with the Eviscerator, Mattock, Tempest and Predator which I think might have given Shepard an *estimated* -140% cooldown speed. Now add this to the 80% from the Tech Armor and... well the rest causes much rage. I ended up playing most of the demo (in insanity) either shooting or spamming the throw reset combo with Liara.

Now the problem is that cooldown is counted by % which means that powers with long cooldown are gonna suffer more in the demo. (Not using the actual figure but) if we are to count the -80% speed cooldown from Tech Armor means that a 1 sec power goes up to 1.12 sec but a 10 sec power cooldown will now be a 12 sec. Fortunately I think most of the Sentinel skills (Throw, Warp, Cryo, Overload actually have relatively quite short cooldown) so it most likely that we will only be losing about a fraction of a second or a second worth of cooldown but at the same time the 40% damage reduction from the Tech Armor is nothing to sneer at (added with Fitness, I think the Sentinel will still be the "meatiest" class of the game still along with the Soldier). And... unlike Adrenaline Rush your Tech Armor once activated stays there unless it gets blown up. In fact I would say that it is Adrenaline Rush that got quite the big cooldown nerf. Also I'm pretty sure that all those powers above have a shorter cooldown than what they had in ME2. Granted combats are faster but I don't think those are a deal breaker at the lower difficulties.

So I'm not going to write off the Sentinel quite as fast yet, the Surkesh demo is a really bad indication of how the Sentinel can be played out in the main game. I enjoy the Sentinel so far in the MP that despite having a longer cooldown when Tech Armor is up, the extra defense of the Tech Armor and its manual detonation had on few occassions saved me.

Also, I think the power cooldown reduction is there so people do not overlook the Adept or Engineer for the Sentinel (which is totally what I did in ME2). Overload and Cryo make Shockwave and Singularity a meh power (especially now that you can use Liara for Singularity). The only power that I think I will miss from the Engineer is Incinerate and Sabotage but Sentinel's Biotic (planning to take Reave again as my bonus power and forego Warp) and the passive damage for both Tech and Biotic will probably make it worthwhile. So I mean really... I'm not gonna cry because I don't think Sentinel is supposed to be better at Biotic and Tech than Adept and Engineer specifically (which is why I think they added the power cooldown reduction for the Tech Armor but hey... at least they are more buffed than the other two).

Still looking forward to playing as Sentinel in the full game and I'll reserve my judgement of the class until then...

Modifié par Priisus, 22 février 2012 - 01:31 .

[Twizz089]

Graunt wrote...

Insane damage, for 5 seconds every 8 seconds is a lot better than "being invincible" (which you definitely were not 100% of the time like you keep exaggerating) doing mediocre damage.  While you might LIKE Tech Armor more than Adrenaline Rush, in no shape or form is Tech Armor even equal.  And honestly, what made Tech Armor seem somewhat "broken" was not the protection it offered, but the cooldown resets that was accidentally left in.

Yea, No. With assault armor as long as you shields did not drain faster than the cooldown, the Sentinel could not be killed.  If this rarely happened to me on my insanity play through imagine how the Sentinel would play on normal dificulty.    You do realise that normal is the baseline experinece right?  The balance of the abillites are more important on normal than on insanity.  On normal the sentinel could not be killed unless you purposely tried to die, or you just didnt know how to play.

And 5 seconds of insane damage didnt matter as dead =dead.  You dont get extra points for overkill.  So yes AR could give the player more dps, but more dps doesnt always mean better.  A sentinel with tech armor using a shotgun killed enemies just as effectively

So you can agrue that AR was better than TA  but at the end of the day it is simply your opinion.  You have yours and I have mine.

The main problem I had with TA was not how it stacked to the other class talents in ME2, (everyone has different opinions as to which is the best ME2 class power which is fine.)  The main problem I had with it was that using it you could become a very effective close combat class.  There is something odd with the tech/botic class being able to tank better than the combat classes.

[scotkrow]

Agreed.

[ondbar]

After playing MP demo i can tell that we have the problem with Tech-Armor.
Tech-Armor is active damage power (so player should be using it actively) and passive-buff (player should not using it at all). This is simply not working together and never will.
Automatic blasting of Tech-Armor was problem in ME2, bioware fixed one half of the equation by making the blast manual and setting cooldown after the blast. However the second part of the problem is still here.
I would fix the Tech-Armor like this:

Fixed Tech-Armor <12 sec recharge / 200pts dmg. / 500N force / 3m explosion radius>
Rank2:  Recharge reduced by 25%
Rank3: 
Detonation Dmg/Radius incr. by 30% 
Rank4: [25% shield restored after detonation.] or [Detonation Dmg/Radius incr. by 30%]
Rank5: [25% shield restored after detonation.] or [Detonation Radius incr. by 50%]
Rank6: [30% shield restored after detonation.] or [Shield/Barrier/Armor Dmg incr. by 100%]
This would allow using the tech-armor blast as a offense/defense power when enemies are in range.

There is simply something wrong when i am better off not using current version of tech-armor in any MP game.!!!

[titoarc]

rumination888 wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

I don't see why Sentinels should out-tank Soldiers. They didn't in the first game, did they?

Logical fallacy. Infiltrators were equal to Soldiers in their ability to out tank everything in ME1. That obviously didn't continue to happen in ME2 or ME3.

The gameplay of the sentinel is nearly broken , tech armour for survival ,and spaming powers to strip defenses (support ) is now broken beacouse tech armour increase your coldowns , so no i only se it with a lot of weapons runing with granades , but thats not the point of the class , thats the soldiers job

Modifié par titoarc, 22 février 2012 - 05:08 .

[RolandX9]

Short version of my Tech Armor critique: I would've been fine with the nerf if they hadn't added a huge cooldown penalty on top of it. With the penalty, it's virtually useless. It might be handy to throw up as a last-ditch defense, but the post-detonation cooldown is insane -- and not in a good way.

Edit: Just to be clear, the cooldown penalty I refer to above is the extra "weight" of the Tech Armor, not the detonation factor. That's just extra minor fail on top of the major fail of the overall penalty (all IMO, of course).

Modifié par RolandX9, 22 février 2012 - 10:29 .

[Frailstrength]

Twizz089 wrote...

Graunt wrote...

Insane damage, for 5 seconds every 8 seconds is a lot better than "being invincible" (which you definitely were not 100% of the time like you keep exaggerating) doing mediocre damage.  While you might LIKE Tech Armor more than Adrenaline Rush, in no shape or form is Tech Armor even equal.  And honestly, what made Tech Armor seem somewhat "broken" was not the protection it offered, but the cooldown resets that was accidentally left in.

Yea, No. With assault armor as long as you shields did not drain faster than the cooldown, the Sentinel could not be killed.  If this rarely happened to me on my insanity play through imagine how the Sentinel would play on normal dificulty.    You do realise that normal is the baseline experinece right?  The balance of the abillites are more important on normal than on insanity.  On normal the sentinel could not be killed unless you purposely tried to die, or you just didnt know how to play.

And 5 seconds of insane damage didnt matter as dead =dead.  You dont get extra points for overkill.  So yes AR could give the player more dps, but more dps doesnt always mean better.  A sentinel with tech armor using a shotgun killed enemies just as effectively

So you can agrue that AR was better than TA  but at the end of the day it is simply your opinion.  You have yours and I have mine.

The main problem I had with TA was not how it stacked to the other class talents in ME2, (everyone has different opinions as to which is the best ME2 class power which is fine.)  The main problem I had with it was that using it you could become a very effective close combat class.  There is something odd with the tech/botic class being able to tank better than the combat classes.

I completely agree. I'm not crazy with how weak the detonation is, but the cooldown thing makes a lot of sense. ME2 felt like god mode a lot of the time, and anything at medium or close range was dead so fast that I didn't even really have time to play with combos at all. I actually like the changes for the most part.

[rumination888]

Twizz089 wrote...

Yea, No. With assault armor as long as you shields did not drain faster than the cooldown, the Sentinel could not be killed.  If this rarely happened to me on my insanity play through imagine how the Sentinel would play on normal dificulty.    You do realise that normal is the baseline experinece right?  The balance of the abillites are more important on normal than on insanity.  On normal the sentinel could not be killed unless you purposely tried to die, or you just didnt know how to play.

And 5 seconds of insane damage didnt matter as dead =dead.  You dont get extra points for overkill.  So yes AR could give the player more dps, but more dps doesnt always mean better.  A sentinel with tech armor using a shotgun killed enemies just as effectively

Yea, No. With adrenaline rush as long as enemies die faster than the duration, the Soldier could not be killed.  If this rarely happened to me on my insanity play through imagine how the Soldier would play on normal dificulty. You do realise that normal is the baseline experinece right?  The balance of the abillites are more important on normal than on insanity.  On normal the soldier could not be killed unless you purposely tried to die, or you just didnt know how to play.

And shield refills didnt matter as living =living.  You dont get extra points for having more shields in the end. So yes TA could give the player more survivability, but more survivability doesnt always mean better. A soldier with adrenaline rush using cover survived enemies just as effectively, and kills even faster.

Modifié par rumination888, 23 février 2012 - 05:59 .

[tomcruisejr]

FinalFantasy84 wrote...

Sentinel is fine. Stop crying. Tired of crying posts. I like the OP...he's cool because he understands.

Edit: If you don't like sentinel stop playing it.  Just because it's not the overpowered class you want it to be doesn't mean it sucks.

Its not that its "not overpowered", its that the playstyle  is literally a weak version of adept OR engineer without a true core ability and far longer cooldowns.  Just compare the new tech-armor with biotic charge or turrets/drones.  Its a joke, especially the human sentinel in MP.  

Its a walking gimp.  Anyone who plays it in ME3 will only be doing so for RP(roleplaying) purposes. (both MP and SP)

Modifié par tomcruisejr, 23 février 2012 - 08:38 .

[Kakita Tatsumaru]

Forcing someone a new playstyle between episodes is a bad thing as it can destroy why people played a class, invaliding the reason or their previous choices, forcing them to choose between loosing their previous levels or loosing their interest in fights.

[Twizz089]

rumination888 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Yea, No. With assault armor as long as you shields did not drain faster than the cooldown, the Sentinel could not be killed.  If this rarely happened to me on my insanity play through imagine how the Sentinel would play on normal dificulty.    You do realise that normal is the baseline experinece right?  The balance of the abillites are more important on normal than on insanity.  On normal the sentinel could not be killed unless you purposely tried to die, or you just didnt know how to play.

And 5 seconds of insane damage didnt matter as dead =dead.  You dont get extra points for overkill.  So yes AR could give the player more dps, but more dps doesnt always mean better.  A sentinel with tech armor using a shotgun killed enemies just as effectively

Yea, No. With adrenaline rush as long as enemies die faster than the duration, the Soldier could not be killed.  If this rarely happened to me on my insanity play through imagine how the Soldier would play on normal dificulty. You do realise that normal is the baseline experinece right?  The balance of the abillites are more important on normal than on insanity.  On normal the soldier could not be killed unless you purposely tried to die, or you just didnt know how to play.

And shield refills didnt matter as living =living.  You dont get extra points for having more shields in the end. So yes TA could give the player more survivability, but more survivability doesnt always mean better. A soldier with adrenaline rush using cover survived enemies just as effectively, and kills even faster.

Thats your opinion, you have your view and I have mine.. but you missed the point of my post entirely or you simply failed to post something intelligent regarding my argument.  Regardless your repost is moronic, but thanks for playing

Modifié par Twizz089, 23 février 2012 - 12:28 .

[rumination888]

Twizz089 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Yea, No. With assault armor as long as you shields did not drain faster than the cooldown, the Sentinel could not be killed.  If this rarely happened to me on my insanity play through imagine how the Sentinel would play on normal dificulty.    You do realise that normal is the baseline experinece right?  The balance of the abillites are more important on normal than on insanity.  On normal the sentinel could not be killed unless you purposely tried to die, or you just didnt know how to play.

And 5 seconds of insane damage didnt matter as dead =dead.  You dont get extra points for overkill.  So yes AR could give the player more dps, but more dps doesnt always mean better.  A sentinel with tech armor using a shotgun killed enemies just as effectively

Yea, No. With adrenaline rush as long as enemies die faster than the duration, the Soldier could not be killed.  If this rarely happened to me on my insanity play through imagine how the Soldier would play on normal dificulty. You do realise that normal is the baseline experinece right?  The balance of the abillites are more important on normal than on insanity.  On normal the soldier could not be killed unless you purposely tried to die, or you just didnt know how to play.

And shield refills didnt matter as living =living.  You dont get extra points for having more shields in the end. So yes TA could give the player more survivability, but more survivability doesnt always mean better. A soldier with adrenaline rush using cover survived enemies just as effectively, and kills even faster.

Thats your opinion, you have your view and I have mine.. but you missed the point of my post entirely or you simply failed to post something intelligent regarding my argument.  Regardless your repost is moronic, but thanks for playing

Thats not my opinion. Thats your own flawed logic turned against you. Your response to it is quite telling.

[Twizz089]

rumination888 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Yea, No. With assault armor as long as you shields did not drain faster than the cooldown, the Sentinel could not be killed.  If this rarely happened to me on my insanity play through imagine how the Sentinel would play on normal dificulty.    You do realise that normal is the baseline experinece right?  The balance of the abillites are more important on normal than on insanity.  On normal the sentinel could not be killed unless you purposely tried to die, or you just didnt know how to play.

And 5 seconds of insane damage didnt matter as dead =dead.  You dont get extra points for overkill.  So yes AR could give the player more dps, but more dps doesnt always mean better.  A sentinel with tech armor using a shotgun killed enemies just as effectively

Yea, No. With adrenaline rush as long as enemies die faster than the duration, the Soldier could not be killed.  If this rarely happened to me on my insanity play through imagine how the Soldier would play on normal dificulty. You do realise that normal is the baseline experinece right?  The balance of the abillites are more important on normal than on insanity.  On normal the soldier could not be killed unless you purposely tried to die, or you just didnt know how to play.

And shield refills didnt matter as living =living.  You dont get extra points for having more shields in the end. So yes TA could give the player more survivability, but more survivability doesnt always mean better. A soldier with adrenaline rush using cover survived enemies just as effectively, and kills even faster.

Thats your opinion, you have your view and I have mine.. but you missed the point of my post entirely or you simply failed to post something intelligent regarding my argument.  Regardless your repost is moronic, but thanks for playing

Thats not my opinion. Thats your own flawed logic turned against you. Your response to it is quite telling.

You continuing to ignoring the point of the post you quoted is also quite telling.

And yes that is your opinion, the numerous post prior have made your opinions on TA vs AR clear. 

Sadly your agrument as to whether AR was better then TA does nothing to disprove my main argument neither does "turning my flawed logic" against me, as that "flawd logic" was not the foundation of my main arguments. At this point your further agruments on the issue are just a waste of time.  You have entertined me enough for the morning, I no longer have any use for you as a play thing... but if you wish to comment on my main argument I may respond if you demonstrate a slight grasp of reading comprehension skills.. untill then, good day sir

Modifié par Twizz089, 23 février 2012 - 02:21 .

[rumination888]

I can easily provide an example of point ignoring on your end:

Twizz089 wrote...
I disagree, the class abilites add spice to the mix but the hybrid
classes are still very much hybrids.  The infiltrator for example,
combat/tech  takes abilites from both soldiers and engineers, it has
ammo powers like the soldier and abillites like the engineer but it fill
the role of neither as it cannot deal with armor even though both the
soldier and the engineer can, it can however deal with shields.  On
insanity it becomes all about balancing your team to have a nice mix off
combat/engineer/adept skills, to deal with encounters.

Rumination888 wrote...
Infiltrators can't deal with armor? Incinerate says hello. Their main
weapon, sniper rifles, also has a huge bonus against armored targets.
Maybe you meant barriers? They had trouble with barriers in ME2.... but
in ME3, disruptor rounds now deal bonus damage to barriers, so your
argument is still invalid.

Twizz089 wrote...
Yes I was speaking of barriers.  But there is the problem, you are speaking of ME2 roles whille I was speaking of ME3 gameplay.

Rumination888 wrote...
It doesn't matter whether we speak of ME2 or ME3, None of the classes
are hybrids in either game. BioWare ditched hybrids in favor of giving
every class something unique in ME2. It didn't always pan out the way
they hoped(ME2 Adept on Insanity), but the effort they put into
differentiating the classes is clear.

Twizz089 wrote...
No there are still hybrid classes.  3 characteristic of the classes in ME
combat, adept, engineer.  By definition a hybrid would be a class that
mixes talents from the other 2 to form its own unique niche, however it
cannot perform one role better then the pure class.  Granted, you may
for example upgrade a sential to perform more of adept role, but because
it doesnt have all the abillites of an adept it will always be a 2nd
class adept.  You can make your vanguard more combat orientated, but
when it comes to shooting a gun the soldier is better.  Hybrids make up
for this by have a little bit of both and being flexable. class talents
further define a classes niche but it doesnt mean that class is not a
hybrid.

I made it clear earlier that Infiltrators can handle the same things an Engineer can handle in EITHER game. Yet, you ignored it. Is it due to poor reading comprehenion? I dunno. The fact is you ignored it.

I stopped responding after that, until you made it easy to turn your own logic against you.

[WaffleCrab]

BrotherWarth wrote...

First off, there's an interview with Casey Hudson from well before the release of ME2 in which he's asked about multiplayer and says it was something the team had thought a lot about. So that didn't just happen because EA demanded it. And what is it with people saying Vega belongs on Jersey Shore? Because he's buff? That is such a stupid complaint.

EA didnt demand it, but EA after ME1, has been the one to set the guide lines. after ME2 even more so. It is apparent also in other things, not just how they gimped sentinell, and the multiplayer classes. no pull+throw on any class now. DLC scheme is like in any recent EA game, not to mention the "consolified control scheme" follows the same basic formula as any other EA port, now tell me EA has nothing to do with this? They own the Effing company!

Also as i was saying, it is not what it used to be, it doesnt feel like a sentinel used to feel like. Hell i dont even play the sentinel as a sentinel, i play him as an overload and warp oriented engineer for crowd control and slowing down masses of enemies.

Which brings me back to what i said before. RIP sentinel, it needs a new class name.

Modifié par WaffleCrab, 24 février 2012 - 07:03 .

[Rasofe]

rumination888 wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

I don't see why Sentinels should out-tank Soldiers. They didn't in the first game, did they?

Logical fallacy. Infiltrators were equal to Soldiers in their ability to out tank everything in ME1. That obviously didn't continue to happen in ME2 or ME3.

Oh, snap, you got me.
I agree, but then again I don't. Soldier could specialise as Shock Trooper in ME1 but Infiltrator couldn't, which made a large difference to Immunity cooldown. Also, no matter what ME1 Infiltrator couldn't use heavy armour.
 
Even so, the infiltrator should've had the Arenaline (Reset Cooldown) ability and the Vanguard should've had Fitness, both classes would be more suitable for their particular roles (Vanguard = Assault, Infiltrator = Elimination).

Of course, that's just whiny complaining. But when you think about the Sentinel nowadays, it's not 50 % tech, 50 % biotic. It's 33.3 % everything. In that sense its a very strange class that doesn't follow the class philosophy that defines the other classes: even the Tech Armour, Fitness (in multiplayer) and the double omni-tool melee attack remind more of Soldier abilities than anything.

Edit: Ok, I read your latest post. I can see your point but I don't really agree with it. The gameplay for each class is unique, yes, but Sentinel with its 33 .3 % everything doesn't really feel unique at all.
My most preferable conceptualisation and operationalisation of the ME classes was as follows:

Soldiers were Tank/ DPS Warrior class that smashes everything with pure combat efficiency. No spells, just weapons. The ammo powers from ME2 made that a little strange (Soldier with cryo ammo?) but I always just maxed Inferno Ammo for brute damage bonus.

Infiltrator were perfect long-distance damage dealers that could harass or cripple their opponents before finishing them off. I liked the addition of tactical cloak in ME2 and the abolition of Immunity from the class, since it removed their natural vulnerability (I got swarmed by husks, had to use missile launcher on insanity, was very fun).

Adepts were super-mage biotic masters that could just wreck havoc on their enemies, with both damage and crowd control but had no real combat skill and would be vulnerable to resistant opponents. This has been true for both ME1 and ME2, and I'm very contented.

Vanguard was vastly improved in ME2. Biotic charge allows the Vanguard to hit fast and try to maximise damage, but of course it's heavy risk - out in the open, Vanguards either kill everything really quickly, or die. A non-tank heavy damage dealer in close quarters.

Engineers are a debuff caster. Brings down enemy defences, distracts opponents with drones... I never found it enjoyable, but a "curse" caster is a complement for the wholeness of the genre.

Sentinels... epic support spellcaster in ME1. Heals allies, stuns organic opponents, delivers sabotage and overload to lightly debuff opponents or control crowds with throw, lift and stasis. Had the very least combat ability - couldn't even train with pistols or improve armour, no shield recharge. Supports the team in every way by a bit. In ME2, this class became a 33.3% class with silly superpower tech armor. Some players would even get an ammo power to supplement their tech armor, and the only lack of combat ability would be to have no time dilation.

I can see what you're trying to say, but I don't agree that this game needs - whatsoever - a jack of all trades, as they call it. A support spellcaster is much more appealing. Being able to do everything is generally lacking weaknesses as well as strengths, which makes for a poor gameplay experience compared to the other classes.

Modifié par Rasofe, 24 février 2012 - 07:27 .