351 réponses à ce sujet

[WaffleCrab]

Rasofe wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

I don't see why Sentinels should out-tank Soldiers. They didn't in the first game, did they?

Logical fallacy. Infiltrators were equal to Soldiers in their ability to out tank everything in ME1. That obviously didn't continue to happen in ME2 or ME3.

Oh, snap, you got me.
I agree, but then again I don't. Soldier could specialise as Shock Trooper in ME1 but Infiltrator couldn't, which made a large difference to Immunity cooldown. Also, no matter what ME1 Infiltrator couldn't use heavy armour.
 
Even so, the infiltrator should've had the Arenaline (Reset Cooldown) ability and the Vanguard should've had Fitness, both classes would be more suitable for their particular roles (Vanguard = Assault, Infiltrator = Elimination).

Of course, that's just whiny complaining. But when you think about the Sentinel nowadays, it's not 50 % tech, 50 % biotic. It's 33.3 % everything. In that sense its a very strange class that doesn't follow the class philosophy that defines the other classes: even the Tech Armour, Fitness (in multiplayer) and the double omni-tool melee attack remind more of Soldier abilities than anything.

I agree with your reasoning which is why i said RIP sentinel and said it needs to be renamed, and if possible remove the tech armor alltogether with something else. But half of the BSN apologists on this thread got their rise defending something the rest of sees as an illogical thing.

I hope the others saying that this argument isnt valid, read your message atleast. might make em realize something they havent yet realized.

Modifié par WaffleCrab, 24 février 2012 - 07:26 .

[Rasofe]

Yeah, but I don't intend to play Sentinel in ME3 anyway. Mortia Shepard, Sentinel, War Hero, Spacer, Renegade died at the Collector base because she didn't bring enough squad members and didn't upgrade the ship, so the amount of loyal squadmates just ran out.
I don't know what you'd call it. In military terms, doesn't Sentinel mean a type of guard, or watchman? I don't know if it was the right name in the first place, but it sounds nice.

[rumination888]

Rasofe:

Commando has the exact same Immunity bonus as Shock Trooper. And there is very little difference between armor type. The biggest difference is between armor manufacturers. Both ME1 Infiltrators and Soldiers are invincible with permanent Immunity.

Please show me a quote where I said Sentinels specialized in being a jack of all trades.

Modifié par rumination888, 24 février 2012 - 10:08 .

[Blodsven]

Rasofe wrote...

Yeah, but I don't intend to play Sentinel in ME3 anyway. Mortia Shepard, Sentinel, War Hero, Spacer, Renegade died at the Collector base because she didn't bring enough squad members and didn't upgrade the ship, so the amount of loyal squadmates just ran out.
I don't know what you'd call it. In military terms, doesn't Sentinel mean a type of guard, or watchman? I don't know if it was the right name in the first place, but it sounds nice.

The name will probably not change, but we can hope that tech armor does.

Personally I have always played my Sentinel as a caster and not as a Shotgun wielding assault specialist. If they just removed recharge penalty, then Tech Armor would be useful for me.

Then again... with the recharge speed reduction across the board, the Sentinel will no longer shine as bright as the speed loaded caster. Perhaps Bioware should just remake Tech Armor from scratch and try to make the detonation as an active part of the Sentinel's game play, like making any enemy hit by the detonation take more weapon and power damage, or something along those lines.

[Rasofe]

"Please show me a quote where I said Sentinels specialized in being a jack of all trades."
Why would I need to do that? I'm saying the Sentinels do that, and so do Bioware.
You did say that they were the best heavy nuker tank. Assault Armour + Heavy Warp probably does make that true, but as I said Adepts should do that and not Sentinels. I avoided using tech armour completely and didn't fully evolve warp on my Sentinel playthrough because I wanted to get the real unique experience. It mostly involved using the neural shock to incapacitate 3 krogans at once and throw them around, or overload some Heavy Mech to death, but it was worth it.

There is substantial difference for armor types.
Commando passive bonus increases damage - Trooper passive bonus increases health and damage protection.

They are both invincible but Infiltrators can't have Immunity on all the time - no Adrenaline Stims.
ALSO class passive - Soldiers' health regen.

Modifié par Rasofe, 24 février 2012 - 10:35 .

[Wafflefries10]

rumination888 wrote...

I can easily provide an example of point ignoring on your end:

Twizz089 wrote...
I disagree, the class abilites add spice to the mix but the hybrid
classes are still very much hybrids.  The infiltrator for example,
combat/tech  takes abilites from both soldiers and engineers, it has
ammo powers like the soldier and abillites like the engineer but it fill
the role of neither as it cannot deal with armor even though both the
soldier and the engineer can, it can however deal with shields.  On
insanity it becomes all about balancing your team to have a nice mix off
combat/engineer/adept skills, to deal with encounters.

Rumination888 wrote...
Infiltrators can't deal with armor? Incinerate says hello. Their main
weapon, sniper rifles, also has a huge bonus against armored targets.
Maybe you meant barriers? They had trouble with barriers in ME2.... but
in ME3, disruptor rounds now deal bonus damage to barriers, so your
argument is still invalid.

Twizz089 wrote...
Yes I was speaking of barriers.  But there is the problem, you are speaking of ME2 roles whille I was speaking of ME3 gameplay.

Rumination888 wrote...
It doesn't matter whether we speak of ME2 or ME3, None of the classes
are hybrids in either game. BioWare ditched hybrids in favor of giving
every class something unique in ME2. It didn't always pan out the way
they hoped(ME2 Adept on Insanity), but the effort they put into
differentiating the classes is clear.

Twizz089 wrote...
No there are still hybrid classes.  3 characteristic of the classes in ME
combat, adept, engineer.  By definition a hybrid would be a class that
mixes talents from the other 2 to form its own unique niche, however it
cannot perform one role better then the pure class.  Granted, you may
for example upgrade a sential to perform more of adept role, but because
it doesnt have all the abillites of an adept it will always be a 2nd
class adept.  You can make your vanguard more combat orientated, but
when it comes to shooting a gun the soldier is better.  Hybrids make up
for this by have a little bit of both and being flexable. class talents
further define a classes niche but it doesnt mean that class is not a
hybrid.

I made it clear earlier that Infiltrators can handle the same things an Engineer can handle in EITHER game. Yet, you ignored it. Is it due to poor reading comprehenion? I dunno. The fact is you ignored it.

I stopped responding after that, until you made it easy to turn your own logic against you.

So when someone says that your argument ignores their point you argue against it by further ignoring the point?  Brilliant!! 

And I dont think you know what a hybrid is...

p.s  logical fallacy

[Wafflefries10]

Rasofe wrote...

Yeah, but I don't intend to play Sentinel in ME3 anyway. Mortia Shepard, Sentinel, War Hero, Spacer, Renegade died at the Collector base because she didn't bring enough squad members and didn't upgrade the ship, so the amount of loyal squadmates just ran out.
I don't know what you'd call it. In military terms, doesn't Sentinel mean a type of guard, or watchman? I don't know if it was the right name in the first place, but it sounds nice.

The sentinel improved from ME1 but it feels like a huge leap backwards in ME3.  I dont think the class name represents the sentinel at all anymore.

[Wafflefries10]

Blodsven wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

Yeah, but I don't intend to play Sentinel in ME3 anyway. Mortia Shepard, Sentinel, War Hero, Spacer, Renegade died at the Collector base because she didn't bring enough squad members and didn't upgrade the ship, so the amount of loyal squadmates just ran out.
I don't know what you'd call it. In military terms, doesn't Sentinel mean a type of guard, or watchman? I don't know if it was the right name in the first place, but it sounds nice.

The name will probably not change, but we can hope that tech armor does.

Personally I have always played my Sentinel as a caster and not as a Shotgun wielding assault specialist. If they just removed recharge penalty, then Tech Armor would be useful for me.

Then again... with the recharge speed reduction across the board, the Sentinel will no longer shine as bright as the speed loaded caster. Perhaps Bioware should just remake Tech Armor from scratch and try to make the detonation as an active part of the Sentinel's game play, like making any enemy hit by the detonation take more weapon and power damage, or something along those lines.

I like that idea, but I still dont see why people think that a sentinel using a shotgun was so wrong.

[Rasofe]

- I feel that I have been misquoted. There's nothing in what I was saying that substantiates your claim. Even if I was objectively of that opinion, which I subjectively am not, it is not present in the text that you quoted.

Edit: @Sentinel + Shotgun
Because ME1 Sentinel could barely use a pistol properly.

Modifié par Rasofe, 25 février 2012 - 12:18 .

[rumination888]

Rasofe wrote...

"Please show me a quote where I said Sentinels specialized in being a jack of all trades."
Why would I need to do that? I'm saying the Sentinels do that, and so do Bioware.
You did say that they were the best heavy nuker tank. Assault Armour + Heavy Warp probably does make that true, but as I said Adepts should do that and not Sentinels. I avoided using tech armour completely and didn't fully evolve warp on my Sentinel playthrough because I wanted to get the real unique experience. It mostly involved using the neural shock to incapacitate 3 krogans at once and throw them around, or overload some Heavy Mech to death, but it was worth it.

There is substantial difference for armor types.
Commando passive bonus increases damage - Trooper passive bonus increases health and damage protection.

They are both invincible but Infiltrators can't have Immunity on all the time - no Adrenaline Stims.
ALSO class passive - Soldiers' health regen.

You need to quote because you said you don't agree to something I never said or even implied("jack of all trades" and "33.3% combat, biotic, tech").

Also, ignoring a class defining power to try and get your point across about "real unique experience" is a fallacy. You can get through 99% of the game on a Soldier using nothing but Reave and knocking enemies around with Concussive Shot.... is that the Soldier's "real unique experience"?

There isn't a substantial difference between armor types in ME1. As I said before, armor manufacturers matter more. I'll give you a clear sxample: Colossus medium armor has more damage protection than every other (legit)heavy armor manufacturer. This is not an opinion. This is a fact.

Infiltrators do not need Adrenaline to achieve permanent Immunity(if they did, then Immunity cooldown specialization would be pointless for both classes. There'd be no reason for you to bring that point up before pointing out Adrenaline, no?). They can achieve it by using certain armor mods(Soldiers also need the mods. Adrenaline alone doesn't cut it.). This is not an opinion. This is a fact.

[rumination888]

Wafflefries10 wrote...
So when someone says that your argument ignores their point you argue against it by further ignoring the point?  Brilliant!! 

And I dont think you know what a hybrid is...

p.s  logical fallacy

What are you talking about? He was ignoring my point, so I stopped responding to him.

Do you agree with Twizz's definition of a hybrid?

Twizz089 wrote...
The infiltrator for example, combat/tech  takes abilites from both soldiers and engineers, it has ammo powers like the soldier and abillites like the engineer but it fill the role of neither as it cannot deal with armor even though both the soldier and the engineer can, it can however deal with shields.

[ScroguBlitzen]

Tech Armor does seem pretty pointless now. My ME3 Sentinel is prettty powerful without it though. Maxed biotic combo skills and spamming warp+throw tears things up pretty quickly. Wish there was a point to putting up the tech armor though, just because it looks cool.

[Zigil]

Sents are the Jack. It's pretty obvious by their loadout. In ME2 Tech Armor dominated that loadout and turned Sents into the juggernaut that Soldiers were supposed to be. Take a typical combat scenario. You've got cover, some open area, and a squad of Cerberus..

Where a Soldier would brute force his way through with his weapon loadout and toughness a Vanguard with his get-in-your-face style, or an Infiltrator with his cloak/snipe a Sentinel is meant to use his versatility. He shouldn't annihilate them with his biotics, he should take the opportunities his enemies give him to catch a few in a warp/throw combo. He shouldn't be trying to take them down with tech powers, he should be overloading shields off to enable biotic/weapon use or should be freezing the charging Assault Trooper before he can get close. He shouldn't charge in as an indestructible tank of destruction with Tech Armor but once he's weeded out the numbers with his versatile biotic/tech options he should most certainly throw it on (cooldowns be damned at this point) and use the defense boost to get up in some face and eliminate the last, scared, opponents.

From what I get from the changes Bioware doesn't want the Sentinel to be the tank, the artillery, or the assassin, they want the Sentinel to be the tactician, the one who can use every ability to some extent. They aren't an Adept but they can fake it to get off some combos, they aren't an Engineer but they can fake it to bring down a shield or stop a charge, and they're not a Soldier but with the enemy numbers trimmed they can fake it with Tech Shield to take out what remains.

Personally that's a pretty badass gameplay style. So while Tech Shield is most certainly not as good as it used to be, it's pretty obvious that's intentional so that the Sentinel can fall into the niche it was meant for.

[Wafflefries10]

rumination888 wrote...

Wafflefries10 wrote...
So when someone says that your argument ignores their point you argue against it by further ignoring the point?  Brilliant!! 

And I dont think you know what a hybrid is...

p.s  logical fallacy

What are you talking about? He was ignoring my point, so I stopped responding to him.

Do you agree with Twizz's definition of a hybrid?

Twizz089 wrote...
The infiltrator for example, combat/tech  takes abilites from both soldiers and engineers, it has ammo powers like the soldier and abillites like the engineer but it fill the role of neither as it cannot deal with armor even though both the soldier and the engineer can, it can however deal with shields.

Selective quoting to prove a point is bad...

Also I believe that he said he ment barriers instead of armor, at least that is what you posted he said.  I dont agree 100% with his definition though

What is your definition of a hybrid?

Modifié par Wafflefries10, 25 février 2012 - 01:29 .

[TUHD]

Sentinel is my personal favourite due to its versatility... I can imagine that people may dislike it, since it's an jack-of-all-trades and thereby doesn't have any specific strong suits to focus on. IMHO it's an easy-to-learn, hard-to-master class. Certainly at higher difficulty levels, if you don't spec completely right and make stupid party choices, you'll get swarmed, FAST.
Also, it's tougher at lower levels due to the lack of a strong suit to focus on - but certainly at endgame it's an superbe class to toy around with.

Modifié par TUHD, 25 février 2012 - 01:45 .

[rumination888]

Wafflefries10 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Wafflefries10 wrote...
So when someone says that your argument ignores their point you argue against it by further ignoring the point?  Brilliant!! 

And I dont think you know what a hybrid is...

p.s  logical fallacy

What are you talking about? He was ignoring my point, so I stopped responding to him.

Do you agree with Twizz's definition of a hybrid?

Twizz089 wrote...
The infiltrator for example, combat/tech  takes abilites from both soldiers and engineers, it has ammo powers like the soldier and abillites like the engineer but it fill the role of neither as it cannot deal with armor even though both the soldier and the engineer can, it can however deal with shields.

Selective quoting to prove a point is bad...

Also I believe that he said he ment barriers instead of armor, at least that is what you posted he said.  I dont agree 100% with his definition though

What is your definition of a hybrid?

I already pointed out that if he meant Barriers then what he said still wouldn't be true. Have you played the Infiltrator and Engineer? ME2 Engineers can't deal with Barriers, just like ME2 Infiltrators. ME3 Engineers can deal with Barriers, just like ME3 Infiltrators. Twizz ignored what I said and kept responding as if his definition is backed by facts.

A hybrid class is a class that has multiple roles gained from other classes. The keyword here is "role".

"Biotic" and "Tech" are flavors. They are not roles. If a tech ability reduces damage protection by 30% with a 10 second duration, and a biotic ability reduces damage protection by 75% with a 20 second duration, then both abilities provide similar roles.(both abilities are in ME1, BTW). If a tech ability CCs a target, and a biotic ability CCs a target, both abilities provide similar roles.

Have you played TOR? Saying Biotic and Tech are two different roles is like saying a healing-specced Sith Sorcerer and a healing-specced Mercenary have two different roles because one is "Force" and the other is "Tech".

Modifié par rumination888, 25 février 2012 - 01:51 .

[FinalFantasy84]

tomcruisejr wrote...

FinalFantasy84 wrote...

Sentinel is fine. Stop crying. Tired of crying posts. I like the OP...he's cool because he understands.

Edit: If you don't like sentinel stop playing it.  Just because it's not the overpowered class you want it to be doesn't mean it sucks.

Its not that its "not overpowered", its that the playstyle  is literally a weak version of adept OR engineer without a true core ability and far longer cooldowns.  Just compare the new tech-armor with biotic charge or turrets/drones.  Its a joke, especially the human sentinel in MP.  

Its a walking gimp.  Anyone who plays it in ME3 will only be doing so for RP(roleplaying) purposes. (both MP and SP)

Actually, my playstyle fits it just fine.  Use powers to remove protections, pewpew with assault rifle.  That's the sentinel class as a whole.  It's how I've played it from ME1 up until now (300+ hours).  Walking gimp to you means no lower than 2nd place in MP (not that being top means anything considering it's all shared exp) and beating SP on Insanity (yes I know it isn't hard) for myself.  You just said it was a weak version of adept or engineer...funny considering if power based, their overload and warp do just as much damage....yes...weak version indeed.  It's called jack of all trades master of none.  I don't know about you but I have fun with my human in multiplayer.

Modifié par FinalFantasy84, 25 février 2012 - 02:36 .

[FinalFantasy84]

Graunt wrote...

People in this thread getting caught up in Sentinel "was a god" hype and now trying to preach it as a gospel, when they're completely wrong. The Sentinel did one thing better than anyone else, just like every class other than the Adept did one thing better than anyone else.

We don't know how things will look with upgrades in ME3, but this whole "Sentinel needed a nerf" propaganda is just gibberish.  The class didn't need neutered.  And for the record, they weren't my favorite class.

I guess you never played one on insanity with Energy Drain then.

[Wafflefries10]

rumination888 wrote...

Wafflefries10 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Wafflefries10 wrote...
So when someone says that your argument ignores their point you argue against it by further ignoring the point?  Brilliant!! 

And I dont think you know what a hybrid is...

p.s  logical fallacy

What are you talking about? He was ignoring my point, so I stopped responding to him.

Do you agree with Twizz's definition of a hybrid?

Twizz089 wrote...
The infiltrator for example, combat/tech  takes abilites from both soldiers and engineers, it has ammo powers like the soldier and abillites like the engineer but it fill the role of neither as it cannot deal with armor even though both the soldier and the engineer can, it can however deal with shields.

Selective quoting to prove a point is bad...

Also I believe that he said he ment barriers instead of armor, at least that is what you posted he said.  I dont agree 100% with his definition though

What is your definition of a hybrid?

I already pointed out that if he meant Barriers then what he said still wouldn't be true. Have you played the Infiltrator and Engineer? ME2 Engineers can't deal with Barriers, just like ME2 Infiltrators. ME3 Engineers can deal with Barriers, just like ME3 Infiltrators. Twizz ignored what I said and kept responding as if his definition is backed by facts.

A hybrid class is a class that has multiple roles gained from other classes. The keyword here is "role".

"Biotic" and "Tech" are flavors. They are not roles. If a tech ability reduces damage protection by 30% with a 10 second duration, and a biotic ability reduces damage protection by 75% with a 20 second duration, then both abilities provide similar roles.(both abilities are in ME1, BTW). If a tech ability CCs a target, and a biotic ability CCs a target, both abilities provide similar roles.

Have you played TOR? Saying Biotic and Tech are two different roles is like saying a healing-specced Sith Sorcerer and a healing-specced Mercenary have two different roles because one is "Force" and the other is "Tech".

Logical Fallacy

But I will say this, the word hybrid can be used to describe classes in ME.  In ME classes are not defined by roles in the same way TOR or a MMO defines their classes.  Every class in ME is a damage dealer, the distinctions comes then from the how not the what as the what is the same in every class (damage dealer).  The how for the engineer is tech powers.  The how for the adept is biotic powers.  The how for the sentinel is tech and/or biotic powers

[CanonShepard]

My main Shep WAS a Sentinel before I played the demo and MP. Now I'm replaying ME1 & ME2 as an Engineer because I just don't like the change. I can deal with the weak blast radius and power and I can deal with the encumbrance. What I DO NOT like AT ALL is 1) Why does it not detonate when my shields are gone automatically? and 2) Why does it not replenish shields if I activate it with no shields up?

Add those 2 things back and TA is usable to me again.

Modifié par CanonShepard, 25 février 2012 - 03:18 .

[rumination888]

Wafflefries10 wrote...

Logical Fallacy

But I will say this, the word hybrid can be used to describe classes in ME.  In ME classes are not defined by roles in the same way TOR or a MMO defines their classes.  Every class in ME is a damage dealer, the distinctions comes then from the how not the what as the what is the same in every class (damage dealer).  The how for the engineer is tech powers.  The how for the adept is biotic powers.  The how for the sentinel is tech and/or biotic powers

You never explained why it was a logical fallacy.

On the otherhand.....

Defining a class by using flavors? You can't say whether a class needs a buff, nerf, or that they're overpowered or underpowered or whatever If all you're doing is comparing flavors. I don't know if you think Sentinels in ME2 needed a nerf, but thats what Twizz thinks. He might as well come out and say, "Sentinels needed a nerf because I don't like their flavor!"

Modifié par rumination888, 25 février 2012 - 03:39 .

[Wafflefries10]

rumination888 wrote...

You never explained why it was a logical fallacy.

Your smart figure it out

rumination888 wrote...


Defining a class by using flavors? You can't say whether a class needs a buff, nerf, or that they're overpowered or underpowered or whatever If all you're doing is comparing flavors. I don't know if you think Sentinels in ME2 needed a nerf, but thats what Twizz thinks. He might as well come out and say, "Sentinels needed a nerf because I don't like their flavor!"

I never said the classes are defined by flavors.  What I said was that they are not defined by roles in the same way roles define MMO classes.  In ME, the main distinctions between the classes are combat, biotic, or tech Therefore, a hybrid in ME would not be a class that can fill more than one role, instead it would be a class that combines more than one, as you called them "flavors"
 
And if you mention twizz one more time to drive home a point Im going to leave, it feels like I am debating with a 5 year old.  "cuz thats what twizz thinks" "this is what twizz said" "but thats what twizz thinks" blah blah blah

[rumination888]

Wafflefries10 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

You never explained why it was a logical fallacy.

Your smart figure it out

rumination888 wrote...


Defining a class by using flavors? You can't say whether a class needs a buff, nerf, or that they're overpowered or underpowered or whatever If all you're doing is comparing flavors. I don't know if you think Sentinels in ME2 needed a nerf, but thats what Twizz thinks. He might as well come out and say, "Sentinels needed a nerf because I don't like their flavor!"

I never said the classes are defined by flavors.  What I said was that they are not defined by roles in the same way roles define MMO classes.  In ME, the main distinctions between the classes are combat, biotic, or tech Therefore, a hybrid in ME would not be a class that can fill more than one role, instead it would be a class that combines more than one, as you called them "flavors"
 
And if you mention twizz one more time to drive home a point Im going to leave, it feels like I am debating with a 5 year old.  "cuz thats what twizz thinks" "this is what twizz said" "but thats what twizz thinks" blah blah blah

You can beat around the bush all you want, but we both know there was no fallacy in what I said.

You can say biotic, tech, and combat are not flavors all you want, but that doesn't make it true.

I've said this before and I'll say it again:

If a tech ability reduces damage protection by 30% with a 10 second duration, and a biotic ability reduces damage protection by 75% with a 20 second duration, then both abilities provide similar roles.(both abilities are in ME1, BTW). If a tech ability CCs a target, and a biotic ability CCs a target, both abilities provide similar roles. "Biotic" and "Tech" are flavors. They are not seperate roles.

Guess I gotta repeat myself about roles, too.

ME2 roles:

Soldier = best ranged offense
Infiltrator = best field control
Vanguard = .best melee tank AND melee offense
Sentinel = best power nuker OR best ranged tank
Engineer = best crowd control

Those are all roles.

You're the one who brought up twizz in the first place with your first response towards me, but if I use him I'm all of a sudden a 5 year old child? You have no argument to stand on whatsoever.

Modifié par rumination888, 25 février 2012 - 05:30 .

[Wafflefries10]

rumination888 wrote...

Wafflefries10 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

You never explained why it was a logical fallacy.

Your smart figure it out

rumination888 wrote...


Defining a class by using flavors? You can't say whether a class needs a buff, nerf, or that they're overpowered or underpowered or whatever If all you're doing is comparing flavors. I don't know if you think Sentinels in ME2 needed a nerf, but thats what Twizz thinks. He might as well come out and say, "Sentinels needed a nerf because I don't like their flavor!"

I never said the classes are defined by flavors.  What I said was that they are not defined by roles in the same way roles define MMO classes.  In ME, the main distinctions between the classes are combat, biotic, or tech Therefore, a hybrid in ME would not be a class that can fill more than one role, instead it would be a class that combines more than one, as you called them "flavors"
 
And if you mention twizz one more time to drive home a point Im going to leave, it feels like I am debating with a 5 year old.  "cuz thats what twizz thinks" "this is what twizz said" "but thats what twizz thinks" blah blah blah

You can beat around the bush all you want, but we both know there was no fallacy in what I said.

You can say biotic, tech, and combat are not flavors all you want, but that doesn't make it true.

I've said this before and I'll say it again:

If a tech ability reduces damage protection by 30% with a 10 second duration, and a biotic ability reduces damage protection by 75% with a 20 second duration, then both abilities provide similar roles.(both abilities are in ME1, BTW). If a tech ability CCs a target, and a biotic ability CCs a target, both abilities provide similar roles. "Biotic" and "Tech" are flavors. They are not seperate roles.

Guess I gotta repeat myself about roles, too.

ME2 roles:

Soldier = best ranged offense
Infiltrator = best field control
Vanguard = .best melee tank AND melee offense
Sentinel = best power nuker OR best ranged tank
Engineer = best crowd control

Those are all roles.

You're the one who brought up twizz in the first place with your first response towards me, but if I use him I'm all of a sudden a 5 year old child? You have no argument to stand on whatsoever.

Derp I thought we both agreed that biotic, tech and combat are in fact flavors?  Little Rumination no know how to read?

I like your ME2 roles, good work.

Modifié par Wafflefries10, 25 février 2012 - 06:26 .

[jtsherrard]

I love tech armor. Havent played the demo... Hopefully they return it to at least half of its original worth. Reading these posts. Im kinda nervous to say the least. I liked the all around shep. It seems the " jack of all trades" lost his crown