351 réponses à ce sujet

[rumination888]

Wafflefries10 wrote...
I never said the classes are defined by flavors.

A couple sentences after that and....

Wafflefries10 wrote...
In ME, the main distinctions between the classes are combat, biotic, or tech

Next post....

Wafflefries10 wrote...

Derp I thought we both agreed that biotic, tech and combat are in fact flavors?

Seriously? Are you trolling?

[jtsherrard]

For the record:

sen·ti·nel /ˈsentn-əl/Noun: A soldier or guard whose job is to stand and keep watch.

In video games, this guardsman class is typically used as a tank

[Zjarcal]

I've grown to love the Sentinel. I wasn't too crazy about it at first as compared to the other classes' unique talents, Tech Armor seems kind of boring as it is passive. But it's incredibly useful in keeping you in the game, plus Warp and Throw for the human sentinel are really good powers. Fully upgraded warp can bring down Turrets in no time, as well as the Phantom's biotic barriers (and is useful against everything else), while Throw makes Guardians look like a joke.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 25 février 2012 - 05:05 .

[Wafflefries10]

rumination888 wrote...

Wafflefries10 wrote...
I never said the classes are defined by flavors.

A couple sentences after that and....

Wafflefries10 wrote...
In ME, the main distinctions between the classes are combat, biotic, or tech

Next post....

Wafflefries10 wrote...

Derp I thought we both agreed that biotic, tech and combat are in fact flavors?

Seriously? Are you trolling?

Its not nice to take quotes out of context.

Wait... So a flavor cant be a distinction? 

[Wafflefries10]

I do have a question for you though. Earlier you listed ME2 roles (very lovely work) What would you say are the ME3 roles, do you feel the sentinel should have remained the best ranged tank or do you think it better for the sentinel class to serve another role?

[goofyomnivore]

And I still don't understand why people keep bringing up Tech Armor as if it was overpowered in ME2.

Overpowered compared to what?

Adrenaline Rush? lol.
Charge? Not even close.
Tactical Cloak? Nope.
Combat Drone? Debatable.
Singularity? Sure.

By killing speed and survivability (assault) Tech Armor is second only to Charge or Mattock+AR, but that is more of the gun being overpowered than AR. The kicker though is you don't even have to aim, have awareness or anything for Tech Armor to be effective.


As for ME3 MP the Sentinel isn't very good compared to other kits. The Krogan Sentinel has some hope with stacking damage resistances. I really think Energy Drain would of been better for the Turian instead of Overload and Reave for the human instead of Warp. Those abilities mesh very well with what they're trying to do with the Sentinel.

Modifié par strive, 25 février 2012 - 08:33 .

[Blodsven]

Wafflefries10 wrote...

Blodsven wrote...

Rasofe wrote...

Yeah, but I don't intend to play Sentinel in ME3 anyway. Mortia Shepard, Sentinel, War Hero, Spacer, Renegade died at the Collector base because she didn't bring enough squad members and didn't upgrade the ship, so the amount of loyal squadmates just ran out.
I don't know what you'd call it. In military terms, doesn't Sentinel mean a type of guard, or watchman? I don't know if it was the right name in the first place, but it sounds nice.

The name will probably not change, but we can hope that tech armor does.

Personally I have always played my Sentinel as a caster and not as a Shotgun wielding assault specialist. If they just removed recharge penalty, then Tech Armor would be useful for me.

Then again... with the recharge speed reduction across the board, the Sentinel will no longer shine as bright as the speed loaded caster. Perhaps Bioware should just remake Tech Armor from scratch and try to make the detonation as an active part of the Sentinel's game play, like making any enemy hit by the detonation take more weapon and power damage, or something along those lines.

I like that idea, but I still dont see why people think that a sentinel using a shotgun was so wrong.

Personally (i.e. I can't speak for the rest) then I see the shotgun wielding Sentinel as a clever use of Tech Armor, but I would not say that this is the only way to play the Sentinel. Heck, I think I dare to claim that the ME2 Sentinel was intended to be played as a caster.

I reason that since you have to play pretty much the first half of ME2 without a shotgun, the developers intended the Sentinel to be a beefy caster. This is the path that you are initially taught to master and this is the path that the past history of ME1 supported.

In ME3 things change drastically.

If you wish to continue to be a caster, then you have to deactivate the Tech Shield, since it now only supports the assault path. Further, it feels like the Sentinel fits the assault path even more due to that the Sentinel can now carry the same amount of weapons as the Infiltrator and the Vanguard. I.e. you start with a Shotgun in ME3.

Yet... in ME2 it was Tech Armor's additional shield, huge detonation radius and ability to restore depleted shields that made people comfortable with running in with the Sentinel. This is changed as well, so I doubt a new player will embrace the assault path in ME3. You are more prone to sit tight behind cover and there is very little that hints on that you should grab a shotgun and rush in. By damn, I feel more inclined to rush in with the Infiltrator since cloaked I have all the time I need to line up a heavy melee attack.

In short, the ME3 Sentinel is in shambles and looking for a niche.

Personally I feel there is an open niche for a short range caster and attacker. This niche would fit both those who wants the ME1/ME2 caster and those who enjoyed the ME2 assault Sentinel. Tech Armor is the top candidate to steer people into this niche and one simple solution would be if the detonation made opponents vulnerable to your power and weapon attacks.

[WaffleCrab]

Zigil wrote...

Sents are the Jack. It's pretty obvious by their loadout. In ME2 Tech Armor dominated that loadout and turned Sents into the juggernaut that Soldiers were supposed to be. Take a typical combat scenario. You've got cover, some open area, and a squad of Cerberus..

Where a Soldier would brute force his way through with his weapon loadout and toughness a Vanguard with his get-in-your-face style, or an Infiltrator with his cloak/snipe a Sentinel is meant to use his versatility. He shouldn't annihilate them with his biotics, he should take the opportunities his enemies give him to catch a few in a warp/throw combo. He shouldn't be trying to take them down with tech powers, he should be overloading shields off to enable biotic/weapon use or should be freezing the charging Assault Trooper before he can get close. He shouldn't charge in as an indestructible tank of destruction with Tech Armor but once he's weeded out the numbers with his versatile biotic/tech options he should most certainly throw it on (cooldowns be damned at this point) and use the defense boost to get up in some face and eliminate the last, scared, opponents.

From what I get from the changes Bioware doesn't want the Sentinel to be the tank, the artillery, or the assassin, they want the Sentinel to be the tactician, the one who can use every ability to some extent. They aren't an Adept but they can fake it to get off some combos, they aren't an Engineer but they can fake it to bring down a shield or stop a charge, and they're not a Soldier but with the enemy numbers trimmed they can fake it with Tech Shield to take out what remains.

Personally that's a pretty badass gameplay style. So while Tech Shield is most certainly not as good as it used to be, it's pretty obvious that's intentional so that the Sentinel can fall into the niche it was meant for.

Sentinel stopped being a tactician after ME1. ME3 is attempting to do that, but with bad results.

the sad thing is. adepts, engys, infiltrators and soldiers all got stronger options to take down both shields and armor. than the sentinel, he cant be considered a tactician either anymore.  As any other class can fill the role, with better efficiency, lets take a few examples: 

-Crowd control. Sent at best can spam hes 3 hit overload. where an engineer can spam hes cryo blast+inc. or overload + inc. combo and take down more than just crowds. Vanguards can spam charge+nova to deal with them even faster than engies. or if they are drell just hug a damn ammo pile and play around with pull and cluster nades. Adepts. hell they can just spamm stasis or throw and still kill things faster and inhibit enemy movement better than sentinel. And dont even get me started with carnage or conc. shot.

-Elimination. Well obviously. adepts, engineers and infiltrators with their better skill loadouts for tech bursts or biotic explosions beat the sentinell hands down. Soldiers got homing high damage skills. on bronze you can have a krogan that kills a trooper with 1 carnage. ludicrous.

-Atlas and specialty enemies(phantom. guardian, nemesis, combat engineer)
Sentinel gets washed away by other classes here too.


Does not change the fact i like playing sentinel, i called sentinel a novelty class earlier, and i think i need to clarify why it is one. He is not a tactician, he is just... Slower/less powerfull than any other class out there. And myself, i enjoy it only for 2 things. #1. the extra challenge, as i dont spam my damn shield, i only play sentinel when i dont want to dominate the game, hell even though i play sent. sometimes my team goes down all the time for not using their brains and i end up being the one reviving people. #2. it allovs me to use my favourite skill out of cover slightly longer than as an engineer. Overload... i just love zapping the living hell out of troopers and centurions and nemesis's with that thing

But most of the time, people see me coming in to lobby with a lv20 turian sentinel... and i start racking up kick votes, and people whining take something usefull. i think that says alot. the moment i take my weak ass quarian engineer or the killing machine salarian infiltrator, whines stop -.-

Modifié par WaffleCrab, 25 février 2012 - 09:10 .

[Zigil]

WaffleCrab wrote...
Sentinel stopped being a tactician after ME1. ME3 is attempting to do that, but with bad results.

the sad thing is. adepts, engys, infiltrators and soldiers all got stronger options to take down both shields and armor. than the sentinel, he cant be considered a tactician either anymore.  As any other class can fill the role, with better efficiency, lets take a few examples: 

-Crowd control. Sent at best can spam hes 3 hit overload. where an engineer can spam hes cryo blast+inc. or overload + inc. combo and take down more than just crowds. Vanguards can spam charge+nova to deal with them even faster than engies. or if they are drell just hug a damn ammo pile and play around with pull and cluster nades. Adepts. hell they can just spamm stasis or throw and still kill things faster and inhibit enemy movement better than sentinel. And dont even get me started with carnage or conc. shot.

-Elimination. Well obviously. adepts, engineers and infiltrators with their better skill loadouts for tech bursts or biotic explosions beat the sentinell hands down. Soldiers got homing high damage skills. on bronze you can have a krogan that kills a trooper with 1 carnage. ludicrous.

-Atlas and specialty enemies(phantom. guardian, nemesis, combat engineer)
Sentinel gets washed away by other classes here too.


Does not change the fact i like playing sentinel, i called sentinel a novelty class earlier, and i think i need to clarify why it is one. He is not a tactician, he is just... Slower/less powerfull than any other class out there. And myself, i enjoy it only for 2 things. #1. the extra challenge, as i dont spam my damn shield, i only play sentinel when i dont want to dominate the game, hell even though i play sent. sometimes my team goes down all the time for not using their brains and i end up being the one reviving people. #2. it allovs me to use my favourite skill out of cover slightly longer than as an engineer. Overload... i just love zapping the living hell out of troopers and centurions and nemesis's with that thing

But most of the time, people see me coming in to lobby with a lv20 turian sentinel... and i start racking up kick votes, and people whining take something usefull. i think that says alot. the moment i take my weak ass quarian engineer or the killing machine salarian infiltrator, whines stop -.-

Of course other classes are going to be able to take on specific situations better than a Sentinel, an Engi will be better at taking down defenses, an Adept will be better at CC and/or AoE, a well-played Vanguard will murder at close range, a Soldier will be tougher, etc etc. The point is that while it's not as good as another class at any specific situation it's at the very least -equipped- to deal with any situation to some extent. If you're getting kicked from multiplayer that's your teammates' failing, not the class. I can't count the number of times a Sentinel has pulled one of my teams through a rough wave by stepping in to do the job that needed doing at any one point in time.

[Rasofe]

jtsherrard wrote...

For the record:

sen·ti·nel /ˈsentn-əl/Noun: A soldier or guard whose job is to stand and keep watch.

In video games, this guardsman class is typically used as a tank

Then they didn't name the class right initially. Anyone who tries to use Kaidan as a tank will be dissapointed as he gets vomited on by 1 thorian Creeper and dies.

[Rasofe]

@Rumination I'm not going to argue with you. Re-read my posts if you think I was disagreeing with you on the point that I was stating. I don't agree that Sentinels should be best heavy ranged tank. What you, sir, are trying to do is just start an argument. I won't stand for it.

[Rasofe]

"Where a Soldier would brute force his way through with his weapon loadout and toughness a Vanguard with his get-in-your-face style, or an Infiltrator with his cloak/snipe a Sentinel is meant to use his versatility. He shouldn't annihilate them with his biotics, he should take the opportunities his enemies give him to catch a few in a warp/throw combo. He shouldn't be trying to take them down with tech powers, he should be overloading shields off to enable biotic/weapon use or should be freezing the charging Assault Trooper before he can get close. He shouldn't charge in as an indestructible tank of destruction with Tech Armor but once he's weeded out the numbers with his versatile biotic/tech options he should most certainly throw it on (cooldowns be damned at this point) and use the defense boost to get up in some face and eliminate the last, scared, opponents."

I agree with all of that except the last point. I don't think it's the Sentinels job to attack anyone at all. Cripple opponents, boost your squad, let them do the killing. No shots fired. No warp used (throw should deal substantial damage to barriers already), nothing. They do the killing - you're there to patch'm'up, throw'm'away and make'm'weak all at the same time. BUT NO KILLING. Sentinels should be a lot of things, but not a combat class.

@Rumination Oh, and how the hell is it a fallacy for me to play a class the way I would prefer it to be played? It's not a type of logic, and certainly not false logic. Why would you just try to insult me in such a way?

[LexXxich]

A subset of ME players probably like Assault Sentinel, but IMO, it should not be.
ME1 sentinel was true to its name - a support class. It had lowest health/armour DR, lowest gun damage, power cooldowns higher than on its parent classes, power damage less than on its parent classes, and no access to aggressive Prestige classes. Two things were his forte: shield strength (Barrier and Electronics) and enemy controlling/debuffing (Throw, Lift, Stasis, Sabotage, Overload, Neural Shock). It wasn't in any way a front line class - it had no damage and no close quarters survivability.
Come ME2, and Bioware shifts combat paradigm to have a more action feel, and grants classes with unique powers. Sentinel was the only one left with native shield restoring/boosting power, shields now protected against any damage and not just bullets, introduction of defences made his main powers(Warp and Overload) do Direct Damage while devaluing his CC powers (Throw and Cryo Blast), and there was a possibility to take up any weapon. Instead of Adept/Engineer hybrid with support focus Sentinel became full-on jack of all trades, decent at all. He lost his way.
In ME3, every class got more and improved powers augmenting its playstyle. Sentinel got Lift Grenade and a nerf of his class Power. Because the ability to wield any weapon out of the box needed to be offset by something.

TL;DR ME1 - Support class, ME2 - "Do everything" class, ME3 "Do everything worse than others" class.

[Praetor Knight]

LexXxich wrote...

A subset of ME players probably like Assault Sentinel, but IMO, it should not be.
ME1 sentinel was true to its name - a support class. It had lowest health/armour DR, lowest gun damage, power cooldowns higher than on its parent classes, power damage less than on its parent classes, and no access to aggressive Prestige classes. Two things were his forte: shield strength (Barrier and Electronics) and enemy controlling/debuffing (Throw, Lift, Stasis, Sabotage, Overload, Neural Shock). It wasn't in any way a front line class - it had no damage and no close quarters survivability.

I just wanted to add that the Sentinel could spec to Bastion, combined with cooldown reducing mods and a Savant amp, allows the class to cast biotics often enough. Casting Lift then Throw was fun, but I haven't used Bastion on my ME1 Sentinel.

Or Medic, to use First Aid whenever needed, which is what I have experience using. I liked bringing a properly spec'd Garrus and Liara for their boosts to First Aid, that allowed me to take more risks and fight in close, and using CC talents made it so that I was shooting at a bunch of helpless mooks all the time. I just had to watch for that stray mook with a Shotgun or and any sort of Rocket, or Acid spit (until I got the Medical Exoskeleton) that could take me out. And then we can eventually find Colossus Armor to help out on Damage Protection.

So, from my experience, it just takes longer for the class to become more effective, in other words the class needs to be a higher level to start shining.

And Shotguns are effective enough that investing into the talent was not exactly necessary. So if Sniper Rifles (SR) get unlocked, you could basically fight effectively at any range with, like, at least 8 points in the SR talent and at least four in Spectre Training.

Come ME2, and Bioware shifts combat paradigm to have a more action feel, and grants classes with unique powers. Sentinel was the only one left with native shield restoring/boosting power, shields now protected against any damage and not just bullets, introduction of defences made his main powers(Warp and Overload) do Direct Damage while devaluing his CC powers (Throw and Cryo Blast), and there was a possibility to take up any weapon. Instead of Adept/Engineer hybrid with support focus Sentinel became full-on jack of all trades, decent at all. He lost his way.

I have been able to do a fair amount of CC with my ME2 Sentinel, but it was simply easier to get in close and detonate Tech Armor and use that cooldown bonus for the Squad to use their powers, than to keep Tech Armor active and cast the other powers.

On Insanity, Assault Armor allowed me to do that easier and more often. And once I got a Shotgun, I was able to handle close range better, but I tend to stay at mid-range and simply melee when up close.

So like in ME1, we need to have the class at a high enough level to make it more effective.

In ME3, every class got more and improved powers augmenting its playstyle. Sentinel got Lift Grenade and a nerf of his class Power. Because the ability to wield any weapon out of the box needed to be offset by something.

Well, from the MP demo, I glean that the Tech Armor is not gonna be much of burden. It does slow casting by a small fraction, but setting off Biotic Explosions from Warp-Throw Combos was easy enough.

The only thing that one needs to watch is there weapon loadout, I've had much success using the Shuriken and either the Carnifex and/or Predator. I look foward to trying more Powers, I'm still unlocking MP classes and only have a Human Female Sentinel, lvl 20 from among the four Sentinels.

TL;DR ME1 - Support class, ME2 - "Do everything" class, ME3 "Do everything worse than others" class.

So I guess it all depends on what you're looking for in the class, but I would not frame it like that.

Versatility and durability are two features that have been at least a facet of the class since ME1, it just takes a while to get there for the class. So, I think that calling the class the "Jack of All Trades" fits well enough through all three games.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 25 février 2012 - 06:16 .

[TevinterMagister]

I disagree about the ME1 sentinel being weak, people who remember the gold standard builds for adepts will recall that it did not include armor training, and they rather pick AR as bonus to avoid wasting points in it to unlock pistol skill. Vanguards and infiltrators only invested 7 points just for unlocking the ability to wear medium armor. In short, armor training was avoided when possible to save points for biotics and tech skills and adepts in particular would be just as squishy as the sentinel.

Sentinels also had to pick singularity as a bonus and was left with a weak basic marksman unlike adept and vanguard who could have a strong weapon skill like AR/Shotgun without sacrificing singularity. I didn't feel the need for singularity cause frankly the class already comes packed to the brim with tools to deal with anything and I could add a proper weapon skill. If the measure of a sentinels power was the capability to take rockets/snipers/krogans to the face then yes it fell short.

[razgriz21]

Well, my fem Shepard (Helen) is a Sentinel.

Should be boss like a Soldier.

[LexXxich]

@Praetor Shepard
We seem to have awfully different views on what an effective Sentinel is, and what it's intended role is. Unfortunately, Bioware balances gameplay based on your understanding.

I absolutely cannot agree that ME2 Sentinel is continuing on ME1 Sentinel intended role and playstyle. And I absolutely cannot agree that class Power being "not much of a burden" is the way it should be.

[rumination888]

Wafflefries10 wrote...

rumination888 wrote...

Wafflefries10 wrote...
I never said the classes are defined by flavors.

A couple sentences after that and....

Wafflefries10 wrote...
In ME, the main distinctions between the classes are combat, biotic, or tech

Next post....

Wafflefries10 wrote...

Derp I thought we both agreed that biotic, tech and combat are in fact flavors?

Seriously? Are you trolling?

Its not nice to take quotes out of context.

Wait... So a flavor cant be a distinction? 

Nothing out of context about the quotes. A flavor can be a distinction, but that has nothing to do with the context of the argument, as I keep pointing out. The context has always been framed around the Sentinel's gameplay, not the Sentinel's graphics.

Wafflefries10 wrote...
I do have a question for you though. Earlier you listed ME2 roles (very
lovely work) What would you say are the ME3 roles, do you feel the
sentinel should have remained the best ranged tank or do you think it
better for the sentinel class to serve another role?

Too early for me to say what every class' role is. But I can say a class can't excel at any particular role without a good class defining power. And I don't care what role the Sentinel should excel at as long as they can excel at something.

[solmyr-fr]

More important than to reduce the nerf ... it will be interesting to have a true formula / explanation from a Bioware developer about the inconsistencies (or bug) exposed by Blodsven (between the expected cooldown formula (1/(1+percentages)) the 80 or 50% power speed penalty and the weapon encumbrance). I'll probably play the sentinel whatsoever the nerf badness but it'll better to know a formula before investing 21 points in a power considering the fact that I will probably use TA passively (just for the protection and the power damage/force boost).

The damage reductipon is applied on shield+health (because the TA don't detonate if your shields are depleted unlike ME2 where it only boosted the shields) so it can become very interesting with the fitness power health/shield bonus + armor bonus+ research bonus (perhaps...if there is still research as in the SP of ME2 ).

So the best choice between :
- 25%protection + 80% power speed penalty (1point investment)
- 40% protection + 20% power damges/force + 80% power speed penalty (21points investment)
- 30% protection + 20% power damges/force + 50% power speed penalty (21points investment)
will depends on how the power speed penalty is truly applied (with the weapons encumbrance system).

[Wafflefries10]

@ rumination888

By taking 3 quotes from 3 different post without supplying a reason of how they are related or the discourse sorrounded them you risk distorting the meaning of all three. But its not a big deal so I am not going to argue with you about it

But you must have some kind of opinion on the sentinel class in ME3... if not, why are you hanging out in this thread?

Modifié par Wafflefries10, 26 février 2012 - 01:41 .

[rumination888]

Wafflefries10 wrote...
But you must have some kind of opinion on the sentinel class in ME3... if not, why are you hanging out in this thread?

I don't have an opinion, but If people make bogus statements about a class in order to elevate their argument, then i'm going to call them out on it. For example...

Rasofe wrote...

@Rumination Oh, and how the hell is it a
fallacy for me to play a class the way I would prefer it to be played?
It's not a type of logic, and certainly not false logic. Why would you
just try to insult me in such a way?

Its not a fallacy for you to play a class the way you prefer it to be played. I was pointing out how its a fallacy to say the way you play the Sentinel is the "real unique experience".

This is what you wrote:

Rasofe wrote...
Why would I need to do that? I'm saying the Sentinels do that, and so do Bioware. You did say that they were the best heavy nuker tank. Assault Armour + Heavy Warp probably does make that true, but as I said Adepts should do that and not Sentinels. I avoided using tech armour completely and didn't fully evolve warp on my Sentinel playthrough because I wanted to get the real unique experience. It mostly involved using the neural shock to incapacitate 3 krogans at once and throw them around, or overload some Heavy Mech to death, but it was worth it.

If you can't see the fallacy in saying someone who uses tech armor and fully evolves warp isn't getting "the real unique experience", then I don't know what else to say.

Modifié par rumination888, 26 février 2012 - 01:55 .

[ondbar]

solmyr-fr wrote...

More important than to reduce the nerf ... it will be interesting to have a true formula / explanation from a Bioware developer about the inconsistencies (or bug) exposed by Blodsven (between the expected cooldown formula (1/(1+percentages)) the 80 or 50% power speed penalty and the weapon encumbrance). I'll probably play the sentinel whatsoever the nerf badness but it'll better to know a formula before investing 21 points in a power considering the fact that I will probably use TA passively (just for the protection and the power damage/force boost).

The damage reductipon is applied on shield+health (because the TA don't detonate if your shields are depleted unlike ME2 where it only boosted the shields) so it can become very interesting with the fitness power health/shield bonus + armor bonus+ research bonus (perhaps...if there is still research as in the SP of ME2 ).

So the best choice between :
- 25%protection + 80% power speed penalty (1point investment)
- 40% protection + 20% power damges/force + 80% power speed penalty (21points investment)
- 30% protection + 20% power damges/force + 50% power speed penalty (21points investment)
will depends on how the power speed penalty is truly applied (with the weapons encumbrance system).

The formula is simple:  base_time * (1+per_penalty) / (1+per_bonus). So 80% penalty can be viewed as 80% increase in base cooldowns for all power (For example: warp: 8 second base cooldown becomes 14.4 second base cooldown in Tech armor.

Protection reduction can be recalculated to be effective shield/health increase as: 
effective shield :=  shield / ( 1 - damage_protection) Example:
25% protection becomes in effect : 1/(1-0.25) = 1.33 ( 33% shield/health increase)
30% protection becomes in effect : 1/(1-0.3)   = 1.43 ( 43% shield/health increase) 
40% protection becomes in effect : 1/(1-0.4)   = 1.66 ( 66% shield/health increase) 

Oportunity cost:
assuming you have 21 free skill point investing all of them to Sentinel Fitness would give you:
65% increase in shield/health, 30% shield/health increase for squad members and 35% increase in melee damage (all points distributed to give shields)

all skills goes to TechArmor:
66% shield/health increase , 20% power damage increase, 80% cooldown penalty.

For me personally if i want more shields i would go for Fitness.

[solmyr-fr]

ondbar wrote...

The formula is simple:  base_time * (1+per_penalty) / (1+per_bonus). So 80% penalty can be viewed as 80% increase in base cooldowns for all power (For example: warp: 8 second base cooldown becomes 14.4 second base cooldown in Tech armor.

Ok thanks ! So the cooldown penalty is applied on the numerator and not with a minus sign on the denominator as other reducing cooldown percentage ... That changes a lot of things and the penalty is not so hard if powers cooldown are improoved too.

It seems I was also mistaken for the damage reduction formula and it's way better. If a 40% reduction means 66% increase that is applied on top of other bonus (like fitness), it can be huge. Let"s say you start with 500 HP/shield,
then with fitness max out you get 500*(1+0.65) = 825 from fitness and 825*(1+0.66) = 1375 from TA . So  it's like to have a +175% bonus in health/shield when you have both fitness and TA (or 136% at TA level 6 with -50% cooldown or + 120% with TA level 1...). I'm ok to forget cooldown malus (which is less than I expected anyway) with this huge bonus.

And in singleplayer we'll probably find armor (and perhaps get bonus from research) with additional health/shield bonus or damage reduction bonus ... so the tank sentinel is back .

Modifié par solmyr-fr, 26 février 2012 - 11:47 .

[WaffleCrab]

Zigil wrote...

WaffleCrab wrote...
Sentinel stopped being a tactician after ME1. ME3 is attempting to do that, but with bad results.

the sad thing is. adepts, engys, infiltrators and soldiers all got stronger options to take down both shields and armor. than the sentinel, he cant be considered a tactician either anymore.  As any other class can fill the role, with better efficiency, lets take a few examples: 

-Crowd control. Sent at best can spam hes 3 hit overload. where an engineer can spam hes cryo blast+inc. or overload + inc. combo and take down more than just crowds. Vanguards can spam charge+nova to deal with them even faster than engies. or if they are drell just hug a damn ammo pile and play around with pull and cluster nades. Adepts. hell they can just spamm stasis or throw and still kill things faster and inhibit enemy movement better than sentinel. And dont even get me started with carnage or conc. shot.

-Elimination. Well obviously. adepts, engineers and infiltrators with their better skill loadouts for tech bursts or biotic explosions beat the sentinell hands down. Soldiers got homing high damage skills. on bronze you can have a krogan that kills a trooper with 1 carnage. ludicrous.

-Atlas and specialty enemies(phantom. guardian, nemesis, combat engineer)
Sentinel gets washed away by other classes here too.


Does not change the fact i like playing sentinel, i called sentinel a novelty class earlier, and i think i need to clarify why it is one. He is not a tactician, he is just... Slower/less powerfull than any other class out there. And myself, i enjoy it only for 2 things. #1. the extra challenge, as i dont spam my damn shield, i only play sentinel when i dont want to dominate the game, hell even though i play sent. sometimes my team goes down all the time for not using their brains and i end up being the one reviving people. #2. it allovs me to use my favourite skill out of cover slightly longer than as an engineer. Overload... i just love zapping the living hell out of troopers and centurions and nemesis's with that thing

But most of the time, people see me coming in to lobby with a lv20 turian sentinel... and i start racking up kick votes, and people whining take something usefull. i think that says alot. the moment i take my weak ass quarian engineer or the killing machine salarian infiltrator, whines stop -.-

Of course other classes are going to be able to take on specific situations better than a Sentinel, an Engi will be better at taking down defenses, an Adept will be better at CC and/or AoE, a well-played Vanguard will murder at close range, a Soldier will be tougher, etc etc. The point is that while it's not as good as another class at any specific situation it's at the very least -equipped- to deal with any situation to some extent. If you're getting kicked from multiplayer that's your teammates' failing, not the class. I can't count the number of times a Sentinel has pulled one of my teams through a rough wave by stepping in to do the job that needed doing at any one point in time.

My point was, a well built any other class than sentinell can do all of those better -.- seriously. It is how they made the damn skill loadouts.

Meaning any class can do what sentinel would do.

Lets take a few examples as my prew examples didnt seem to be clear enough *sigh*

this time i will make em separate classes, instead of situations.

-Adept: Stasis buble, already alone is better than anything the sentinel has for CC, not to mention singularity.
then they have shockwave, reave, pull and throw which are more powerfull than anything a sentinell has against individual with shields or armor.

-Soldier: over half of the skills(carnage, conc shot, nades, prox mine) are what you can use for any target or any number of targets.

-Engineer: Hell this one has it even more obvious. Tech burst abilities, and drones/turrets. with faster cooldowns than a sentinel.

-Even infiltrators. Either you can just deal with the groups with your mines or nades, or deal with individual targets or shielded/armored atrgets with incinerate or cryoblast.

-Vanguards: Nade spam or nova or shockwave for groups. and shielded/armored targets. and they arent bad for individual either.

What i am trying to say here. Sentinel just simply doesnt have anything specific going for him, not even support. Any other class can fill the support, CC and weaken the enemy role. Sentinel just does it slower.

Modifié par WaffleCrab, 26 février 2012 - 12:16 .

[Zigil]

I suppose we just have differences of opinion then. I disagree that every class can do everything against every defense better than a Sentinel can. I feel that they have a pretty nice niche where they are and a fun, tactical, playstyle that isn't just the unstoppable techshielded tank of ME2. You obviously don't. Fair enough. Hopefully one of the other classes will fill the roll you're looking for you to be able to enjoy yourself.