351 réponses à ce sujet

[Twizz089]

Sora Kitano wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Anyone who doesnt think the sentinel needed a nerf is crazy. The ME2 sentinel could fill the combat role and tank better than the Pure combat class. Last I checked Sentinel was tech/biotic not tech/biotic/combat.

That being said noone on this forum knows how low we can get our cooldowns. But the MP demo gives us a very good idea.

In the MP demo I only carry the Locust smg (it is basically a very light AR with range far beyond the other smgs) and my cooldowns are 190% faster.

My throw is at about 1.2 secs and my warp is 2.5 sec. (I have yet to fully upgrade my warp so I can lower the cooldown even further)

In the SP game we can upgrade our armor to get these cooldowns to drop even farther also through Alliance Training we can receive further reductions by reducing the weight of weapons.

A fully upgraded tech armor only adds 0.6 seconds to my throw and 1.2 secs to my warp (like I said my warp is not upgraded so the base cooldown can be reduced farther) while making both moves 20% stronger and giving me 30% DR. Seems like nice trade off.

Power based Sentinels are fine, (in MP I am always 1st or 2nd my team on points) but if you are looking to fill a combat role it seems like the sentinel can no longer out perform or perform at the same level as the combat classes (which seems fair and balanced to me)

No offense, but you are playing the class wrong if you are doing nothing but Warp and Throw.  Sounds like you are playing as an inferior Adept.

No offense, but in MP a human sentinel only has tech armor, warp, and throw.  What move should I be using then? Do tell

Modifié par Twizz089, 19 février 2012 - 12:24 .

[Twizz089]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Play a Turian so you can have Overload and Warp.

Ha Ha maybe on Gold, but on bronze Human sentinel is better. Works very good on Silver also.

[Rasofe]

I don't see why Sentinels should out-tank Soldiers. They didn't in the first game, did they?

[Niflkkojaer]

Rasofe wrote...

I don't see why Sentinels should out-tank Soldiers. They didn't in the first game, did they?

Ha, hellz no. They had the least health in the first game. Died really fast. All they were was a truly, an uber good medic. But that's all.

Mass Effect 2 they got tech armor and raped.

Mass Effect 3 they nerfed tech armor and now tech armor basically works like barrier in the first game for them.

All they need to do is have it auto detonate, and that's for all the armor powers. Otherwise, I'm honestly confused how armor powers work now.

[AK47 Total WAR]

So, people are complaining because the Sentinel is no longer a god-mode class like it was in Mass Effect 2? Wasn't it always supposed to be a "jack of all trades, but master of none" sort of thing?

[FinalFantasy84]

AK47 Total WAR wrote...

So, people are complaining because the Sentinel is no longer a god-mode class like it was in Mass Effect 2? Wasn't it always supposed to be a "jack of all trades, but master of none" sort of thing?

Yes, and that's how I played mine as well and it's what I love about it.  People on here though seem to think they should be an assault type combat class though which is highly confusing.

Edit: I mean being able to use Assault Rifles, Warp, Throw, and Overload?  Who wouldn't love that.  They can also use cryo blast but I never saw the point since you have Throw.  With the way they changed warp, you can make your own biotic explosions now too....just amazing.

Modifié par FinalFantasy84, 19 février 2012 - 12:58 .

[rumination888]

Rasofe wrote...

I don't see why Sentinels should out-tank Soldiers. They didn't in the first game, did they?

Logical fallacy. Infiltrators were equal to Soldiers in their ability to out tank everything in ME1. That obviously didn't continue to happen in ME2 or ME3.

[DHG Darkmaster]

Personally I have used Infiltrator since ME1, the ability to bypass things and salvage Prothean artifacts on random planets sealed my usage of Infiltrator in the trilogy.

In ME2 I was ecstatic when they added a tactical cloak to them. Me, naturally being a sniper have mostly only used the one-shot sniper rifle like the Widow.

In the ME3 demo I have been addicted to using Sniper-AR combination. Two games in a row I was waiting for the extraction round where the rest of my squad had died leaving me left I had to use the TacCloak to survive.

[MCDayC]

As I posted in the multiplayer forum, I'm a bit disappointed in the sentinel. The detonation is so weak that your basically always want to say in tech armour, which means that you just have to deal with a slower cool down. If the detonation was improved, there would be an awesome opportunity cost between improved defence vs detonation damage, and instant long cooldown vs having a quicker general cooldown. Right now though, I can't really ever see the purpose of using the detonation. The decision to make it manual detonations is awesome though.

[Hawkules]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Hawkules wrote...

Despite all this talk, I'm still considering switching from playing an Adept in ME1 & ME2 to a Sentinel in ME3. Higher weight capacity, overload AND warp, not to mention throw. They have tools to deal with every situation, sounds like a fantastic class to me.

Why would you switch NOW and not in ME2? The Sentinel is just objectively worse in ME3 than in ME2. It makes no sense to me, hearing all the negatives and how the class was nerfed and thinking "Sounds like a good time to switch to Sentinel."

You missed the point. Yes, they may have been way better in ME2, but with the abilities they still have in ME3 they look like a great class. I would switch for the variety that the class offers, they have some of the best abilities in the game - all in one - regardless of tech armor. I really don't see why people are complaining.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

Twizz089 wrote...

BrotherWarth wrote...

Play a Turian so you can have Overload and Warp.

Ha Ha maybe on Gold, but on bronze Human sentinel is better. Works very good on Silver also.

And that is wrong with having the ability to strip a Phantom on any difficulty? Playing as neutered Adept only makes me wanna play with my Adept where just about every race has something where they only real threat to them is the Atlas, and a team shoot deals with that.

Turian Sentinel's pretty much are the only ones that bring something to the table so that they can maintain a decent level of support if they are having trouble killing anything on their own.

[Blodsven]

Hawkules wrote...

Despite all this talk, I'm still considering switching from playing an Adept in ME1 & ME2 to a Sentinel in ME3. Higher weight capacity, overload AND warp, not to mention throw. They have tools to deal with every situation, sounds like a fantastic class to me.

The higher weight capacity doesn't really strike me as that much of a selling point.
1 point = 5 more than Adept or Engineer
1+2 points = still 5 more than Adept or Engineer
15 points = 20 points more than Adept or Engineer

If the values in the demo hold true and the given formulas are correct, then 20 points extra carrying capacity translates to a +0.07 modifier in the Recharge Speed formula, while Tech Armor can be seen as a negative -0.8 or -0.5 modifier. I.e. you could say that an Adept or Engineer have something like 200 to 120 higher carrying capacity in comparison to a Sentinel with Tech Armor active.

It is first when you deactive Tech Armor that the Sentinel will stand as a winner... but this thread is about using your class defining ability, not about ignoring it. So, is the new damage reduction functionality good enough to warrant that you willingly nerf your casting speed to that degree?

Personally I would answer "no", but that is just me.

[TevinterMagister]

Is stasis back as a bonus skill? I was lucky enough to unlock Asari Adept with my starter pack, and after playing with that I can't wait to do the same thing with sentinel in ME3. I was skeptical with the new direction of the class, but really the class is going back to it's ME1 roots while keeping some good things from ME2.

For all you who played asari adept in MP, consider how you could do the same thing (w/Stasis bonus), add on top of that the toughness when combining max fitness with 40% damage mitigation and finally some engineering into the mix. Tech armor is now mitigating damage like ME1 Immunity, percentage based, which is alot better than a fixed number increase to your shields for tanking.

[Blodsven]

Maze of Torment wrote...

Is stasis back as a bonus skill? I was lucky enough to unlock Asari Adept with my starter pack, and after playing with that I can't wait to do the same thing with sentinel in ME3. I was skeptical with the new direction of the class, but really the class is going back to it's ME1 roots while keeping some good things from ME2.

For all you who played asari adept in MP, consider how you could do the same thing (w/Stasis bonus), add on top of that the toughness when combining max fitness with 40% damage mitigation and finally some engineering into the mix. Tech armor is now mitigating damage like ME1 Immunity, percentage based, which is alot better than a fixed number increase to your shields for tanking.

ME2-Tech Armor had a lot of uses and could be seen as overpowered by some (I for one). ME2-tech armor allowed you to:
a) Absorb more damage
Instantly recharge your shields
c) Disable or even kill enemies
d) Reset the cooldown timer of squad members
e) Boost your biotic and tech power

ME3-Tech Armor buffed the first part, the ability to soak up damage, while it pretty much nerfed or removed the rest. The lack of instant shield recharge and lower detonation radius make it far less useful as panic-button. If you're toasted, then you're toasted. It doesn't boost your survivability except if you are continously taking damage... and in that case, my tip is that you should stop standing up like a flag pole and instead try to take cover.


On a more serious note, yes you could try to play the Sentinel as an immunity based gun-wielding anti-defense chap, but in that case why not just go with a Soldier? Afterall, Adrenaline Rush can be speced to a 25% damage reduction and the ammo powers are quite capable of removing defenses. To this you have better carrying capacity and, by all probability, far faster recharge speed on your abilities.



EDIT:
To just throw out a simple(?) fix, then I would have loved if they just removed the recharge speed penalty all together and changed the last ability to for example that you had the option between an additional 10% damage reduction or +50% detonation damage & radius.

This fix would probably not suit most nay-sayers, that want ME2 Tech Armor back just as it were... but it would at least ensure that Tech Armor feels less like a penalty and more like a class defining ability.

Modifié par Blodsven, 19 février 2012 - 11:14 .

[rumination888]

Maze of Torment wrote...

Tech armor is now mitigating damage like ME1 Immunity, percentage based, which is alot better than a fixed number increase to your shields for tanking.

Its no where near as good as Immunity. Its not half as good, or even a quarter as good. Not even 1/10th as good.

Simple arithmatic will easily prove this:

Unmitigated Damage: 100

ME1 Colossus Light Armor: 65% reduction
Armor Skill: 20% reduction
Immunity: 80% reduction
Mitigated Damage: 5.6

ME3 Tech Armor: 40% reduction
Mitigated Damage: 60

Percentages have increasing returns. Every point is better than the last. Going from 0% to 99% is infinitely worse than going from 99% to 100%, for example.

The ME3 Sentinel takes almost TWELVE TIMES more damage than a ME1 class with Immunity. Not only that, but with the right mods, you can gain more health than lose(depending on severity of incoming damage) because you still regenerate health while under fire in ME1. *hint hint*

Modifié par rumination888, 19 février 2012 - 11:25 .

[Twizz089]

Blodsven wrote...

Hawkules wrote...

Despite all this talk, I'm still considering switching from playing an Adept in ME1 & ME2 to a Sentinel in ME3. Higher weight capacity, overload AND warp, not to mention throw. They have tools to deal with every situation, sounds like a fantastic class to me.

The higher weight capacity doesn't really strike me as that much of a selling point.
1 point = 5 more than Adept or Engineer
1+2 points = still 5 more than Adept or Engineer
15 points = 20 points more than Adept or Engineer

If the values in the demo hold true and the given formulas are correct, then 20 points extra carrying capacity translates to a +0.07 modifier in the Recharge Speed formula, while Tech Armor can be seen as a negative -0.8 or -0.5 modifier. I.e. you could say that an Adept or Engineer have something like 200 to 120 higher carrying capacity in comparison to a Sentinel with Tech Armor active.

It is first when you deactive Tech Armor that the Sentinel will stand as a winner... but this thread is about using your class defining ability, not about ignoring it. So, is the new damage reduction functionality good enough to warrant that you willingly nerf your casting speed to that degree?

Personally I would answer "no", but that is just me.

I understand where you are coming from but, you forgot to add the 20% increase of damage,  I am not sure how the damage is factored in atm, (if you know please share )  for example a fully upgraded throw does 270 damage on impact + force, so are both increased by 20%?  Also how does that 20% stack with the other damage upgrades? Is it 20% of base damage or 20% of total damage

The trade off becomes damage reduction and extra damage (have to run the math on this, as if the 20% is of base damage, faster casting times still might yield better dps, hopefully at the very least the bonus gives the sentinel dps equal to that of the adept and engineer )  You gain these things for longer cast times (for me this is only a .5 sec increase for my throw and about a  1 sec increase for my overload/warp) Not game breaking imo

Anyone who played an mmo knows how tricky it can be to balance a hybrid class.  The sentinel shouldnt fill the adept role better then the adept nor should it fill the engineer role better then the engineer, the main draw of the class is that it has a mix of talents that can handle any situation.  I fell in love with the class because playing as one, i could bring whoever I wanted with me on missions and not have to worry about the abillites my teammate had, and could just simply bring my favorites.

Modifié par Twizz089, 19 février 2012 - 11:30 .

[rumination888]

Twizz089 wrote...

Anyone who played an mmo knows how tricky it can be to balance a hybrid class.  The sentinel shouldnt fill the adept role better then the adept nor should it fill the engineer role better then the engineer, the main draw of the class is that it has a mix of talents that can handle any situation.  I fell in love with the class because playing as one, i could bring whoever I wanted with me on missions and not have to worry about the abillites my teammate had, and could just simply bring my favorites.

Logical fallacy. If we go by ME1, then Infiltrators and Vanguards shouldn't have cloak/charge because they're both hybrids of Soldiers + Engineer/Adept.

The problem with this train of thought is that, ever since ME2, none of the classes are hybrids. All but 1 class has something theyre the best at:

Soldier = best ranged offense
Infiltrator = best field control
Vanguard = .best melee tank AND melee offense
Sentinel = best power nuker OR best ranged tank
Engineer = best crowd control

Modifié par rumination888, 19 février 2012 - 11:39 .

[TevinterMagister]

Don't be silly, I'm not trying to argue that ME3 TA is as good as immunity, nor should it ever be. In ME1 I had a "bubble" via barrier in mmorpg terms on my sentinel, which is fine for a caster class. The ME3 sentinel would still be the toughest class to kill combining the mitigation of TA with HP/Shield boosts from Fitness and custom armor and upgrades.

Soldiers and Sentinels are similar in that they both are very capable of dealing with any defense and situation, they differ in their approach where soldier is gun based, the sentinel is power based. I happen to prefer the power based gameplay, so my soldier is reserved for the first playthrough of the game and then I probably won't play it again as with the first 2 games.

[rumination888]

Maze of Torment wrote...

Don't be silly, I'm not trying to argue that ME3 TA is as good as
immunity, nor should it ever be. In ME1 I had a "bubble" via barrier in
mmorpg terms on my sentinel, which is fine for a caster class. The ME3
sentinel would still be the toughest class to kill combining the
mitigation of TA with HP/Shield boosts from Fitness and custom armor and
upgrades.

You may not be arguing that TA is as good as immunity, but you're still arguing that you can play it as some sort of tank. The most durable class in ME3 is the Soldier and Vanguard due to their regenerating shields.(something I hinted at earlier in my post, which was the crux of my argument)

[Twizz089]

rumination888 wrote...

Twizz089 wrote...

Anyone who played an mmo knows how tricky it can be to balance a hybrid class.  The sentinel shouldnt fill the adept role better then the adept nor should it fill the engineer role better then the engineer, the main draw of the class is that it has a mix of talents that can handle any situation.  I fell in love with the class because playing as one, i could bring whoever I wanted with me on missions and not have to worry about the abillites my teammate had, and could just simply bring my favorites.

Logical fallacy. If we go by ME1, then Infiltrators and Vanguards shouldn't have cloak/charge because they're both hybrids of Soldiers + Engineer/Adept.

The problem with this train of thought is that, ever since ME2, none of the classes are hybrids. All but 1 class has something theyre the best at:

Soldier = best ranged offense
Infiltrator = best field control
Vanguard = .best melee tank AND melee offense
Sentinel = best power nuker OR best ranged tank
Engineer = best crowd control

I disagree, the class abilites add spice to the mix but the hybrid classes are still very much hybrids.  The infiltrator for example, combat/tech  takes abilites from both soldiers and engineers, it has ammo powers like the soldier and abillites like the engineer but it fills the role of neither as it cannot deal with armor even though both the soldier and the engineer can, it can however deal with shields.  On insanity it becomes all about balancing your team to have a nice mix off combat/engineer/adept skills, to deal with encounters.  An team of a soldier, adept, and engineer will be able to deal with anything they come across,  You cannot take a team of hybrids and expect the same results unless each hybrid offers what the other does not.

I also disagree with your assessment of what you think each class is best in  The sentinel is in no way the best ranged tank, nor is it the best power nuker.  Also you will be hard pressed arguing that an engineer is better at crowd control then an adept.  And I am not sure what you mean by "field control" and how that is different from crowd control

Modifié par Twizz089, 19 février 2012 - 12:19 .

[Twizz089]

rumination888 wrote...

Maze of Torment wrote...

Don't be silly, I'm not trying to argue that ME3 TA is as good as
immunity, nor should it ever be. In ME1 I had a "bubble" via barrier in
mmorpg terms on my sentinel, which is fine for a caster class. The ME3
sentinel would still be the toughest class to kill combining the
mitigation of TA with HP/Shield boosts from Fitness and custom armor and
upgrades.

You may not be arguing that TA is as good as immunity, but you're still arguing that you can play it as some sort of tank. The most durable class in ME3 is the Soldier and Vanguard due to their regenerating shields.(something I hinted at earlier in my post, which was the crux of my argument)

Didnt you just say that the Sentinel was the best ranged tank? or were you only speaking of ME2 roles?

Modifié par Twizz089, 19 février 2012 - 12:29 .

[TevinterMagister]

I'd take TA over AR and charge, reason being it's passive and allows me to use my powers to lock down and disrupt enemy fire and movement while doing damage at the same time over a larger area. So yeah I intend to play like some sort of tank as you put it, tanking can be considered a form of CC in itself.

[rumination888]

Twizz089 wrote...

I disagree, the class abilites add spice to the mix but the hybrid classes are still very much hybrids.  The infiltrator for example, combat/tech  takes abilites from both soldiers and engineers, it has ammo powers like the soldier and abillites like the engineer but it fill the role of neither as it cannot deal with armor even though both the soldier and the engineer can, it can however deal with shields.  On insanity it becomes all about balancing your team to have a nice mix off combat/engineer/adept skills, to deal with encounters.  An team of a soldier, adept, and engineer will be able to deal with anything they come across,  You cannot take a team of hybrids and expect the same results unless each hybrid offers what the other does not.

I also disagree with your assessment of what you think each class is best in  The sentinel is in no way the best ranged tank, nor is it the best power nuker.  Also you will be hard pressed arguing that an engineer is better at crowd control then an adept.  And I am not sure what you mean by "field control" and how that is different from crowd control

Infiltrators can't deal with armor? Incinerate says hello. Their main weapon, sniper rifles, also has a huge bonus against armored targets. Maybe you meant barriers? They had trouble with barriers in ME2.... but in ME3, disruptor rounds now deal bonus damage to barriers, so your argument is still invalid.

Everything I listed revolved around unique class powers. Drone >>>>>>> Singularity at crowd control on Insanity, Cloak allows you to get wherever you want on the battlefield without a hitch, hence, field control. If thats still too abstract of a tactical advantage for you, then look at MP. They can cap points and revive teammates, unhindered. Both direct results of field control.

Twizz089 wrote...
Didnt you just say that the Sentinel was the best ranged tank? or were you only speaking of ME2 roles?

ME2 roles.

Maze of Torment wrote...

I'd take TA over AR and charge,
reason being it's passive and allows me to use my powers to lock down
and disrupt enemy fire and movement while doing damage at the same time
over a larger area. So yeah I intend to play like some sort of tank as
you put it, tanking can be considered a form of CC in itself.

With an 80% cooldown penalty?

But yes, I agree, tanking can be considered a form of CC in itself. Which is why they turned into a poorman's Engineer. Engineer power selection is even better than the Sentinel at dealing with every kind of situation, on top of having amazing crowd control.... without a 80% cooldown penalty.

Modifié par rumination888, 19 février 2012 - 12:42 .