479 réponses à ce sujet

[Lotion Soronarr]

Sicne when?

Reaper IFF wouldn't help. You do know IFF's transmit a VETRY SPECIFIC identification. It quite leaterly shouts "Bob the Reaper".. Except Bob is dead. The IFF is stolen. And the Repaers know that.

[Labrev]

Needle-ship in a needle-ship stack. Place is swarmed with aircraft.

In short, they missed it.

[kalle90]

Rafe34 wrote...

Uh... this one is really, really easy.

1. The Reaper IFF that is still installed in the Normandy may have had an effect, but the real reason is
2. The Normandy's stealth systems. Remember way back in ME1 when that was getting explained? It is asked if it makes the Normandy invisible, the answer is no, it doesn't, anyone could just look out the window and see them coming, but you're invisible to scanners. The thing is, the Reapers are machines. Thus they rely on scanners to see, and so to them, while stealthed, the Normandy is undetectable.

2. Collectors easily found Normandy at the start of ME2, they found it later on (perhaps because of the virus) and at the end Normandy was going nice and easy yet full-scale fight started.

It's too convenient Normandy is untouchable by the Reapers for the entire game. "Hey who's shooting at me, oh it's IFF must have been a missfire"

[Sajuro]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sicne when?

Reaper IFF wouldn't help. You do know IFF's transmit a VETRY SPECIFIC identification. It quite leaterly shouts "Bob the Reaper".. Except Bob is dead. The IFF is stolen. And the Repaers know that.

apparently Reaper IFFs don't, or maybe the Reapers just thought that Bob was very silent for the past few cycles, anywho it is very clear that the Reaper doesn't notice the Normandy or wanted to let it get away. Sometimes when there's a problem you can figure out ways around it instead of just complaining about plotholes.

[InvincibleHero]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sicne when?

Reaper IFF wouldn't help. You do know IFF's transmit a VETRY SPECIFIC identification. It quite leaterly shouts "Bob the Reaper".. Except Bob is dead. The IFF is stolen. And the Repaers know that.

really? Where does it say so? Do all US fighter jets give off different FOF signals? I doubt it. They are standard to be used for identification. Are all reapers going to know a million different codes if that is how many reapers there are? No way.

[MissMaster]

Because they want Shepard alive.

[Biotic Sage]

*Sigh* This is a perfect example of over-analyzing.

There are so many worthy topics of discussion and debate that can stem from Mass Effect. This is not one of them. The Normandy had to get away or there would be no damn game to play for the next 30 hours. That's really all there is to it. Maybe Bioware could have had a couple Reapers fire at the Normandy, maybe a couple could have even given pursuit. It's ultimately irrelevant because we all know that the Normandy's going to get away because we payed for a complete game and not just an opening scene, so I'm not really that concerned about how "believable" the portrayal of the Normandy's escape was.

It's as believable as the main premise of supremely inferior organisms being able to defeat god-like super machines that have been going about their cycle of galactic cleansing for millions of years.  At some point in a work of fiction the reader/viewer will have to make the decision to "just roll with it."  At some point.  In every single book/movie/game.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 16 février 2012 - 09:13 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Needle-ship in a needle-ship stack. Place is swarmed with aircraft.

In short, they missed it.

Normandy is a WARSHIP. You don't miss it.
Not even with todays radars/sensors could you POSSIBLY miss it. You couldnt' miss it without any sensors - it was right tehre in plain view of 10 reapers.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sicne when?

Reaper IFF wouldn't help. You do know IFF's transmit a VETRY SPECIFIC identification. It quite leaterly shouts "Bob the Reaper".. Except Bob is dead. The IFF is stolen. And the Repaers know that.

Now I very much wished we encountered a reaper named Bob.

[Lotion Soronarr]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Sicne when?

Reaper IFF wouldn't help. You do know IFF's transmit a VETRY SPECIFIC identification. It quite leaterly shouts "Bob the Reaper".. Except Bob is dead. The IFF is stolen. And the Repaers know that.

really? Where does it say so? Do all US fighter jets give off different FOF signals? I doubt it. They are standard to be used for identification. Are all reapers going to know a million different codes if that is how many reapers there are? No way.

Yes. The IFF is an identifier. Like your ID number on your passport or personal information card.

contact 8495039192881 - bob the reaper. Reported dead. IFF stolen by organics.

Yes, they would know. They are super-machines with the processing power that puts all our computers to shame a thousand times over. They communiate instantly over any distance.

The Normandy couldn't go unnoticed with todays equipment...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Biotic Sage wrote...

*Sigh* This is a perfect example of over-analyzing.

There are so many worthy topics of discussion and debate that can stem from Mass Effect. This is not one of them. The Normandy had to get away or there would be no damn game to play for the next 30 hours. That's really all there is to it. Maybe Bioware could have had a couple Reapers fire at the Normandy, maybe a couple could have even given pursuit. It's ultimately irrelevant because we all know that the Normandy's going to get away because we payed for a complete game and not just an opening scene, so I'm not really that concerned about how "believable" the portrayal of the Normandy's escape was.

It's not irrelevant.
Just because there is a known result/conclusion, doesn't mean that all paths to get there are equally good.

We already know Shep will win.
Tell me, if Sheard litterly stumbles upon a bottun labeled "kill all reaeprs" - would you consider it good?
After all, we already know he's going to win. Bio could make it more engaging, but why bother?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Now we all know plot armor and the need to actually have a game is the
real reason, but I'm going to try to come up with an excuse.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
The Normandy couldn't go unnoticed with todays equipment...

I'd argue that would depend on the sensor. The Normandy is damn visible and few if any measures have been taken to reduce RADAR cross section. But haven't LADAR systems advanced to the point where radar is no longer used in most applications? Now I'm sure the reapers have something like ladar but maybe the Normandy has some sort of active plasma stealth system designed to prevent detection by such systems.

Now IRL most experimentation in regards to "plasma stealth" has been in regards to radar, and despite the occasional BS claim by the Russians it's not something we are going to see on an aircraft in our lifetimes. Back to lasers and ladar, I recall reading an article written by some ex-USAF officer discussing directed energy weaponry and in it he mentions the possibility of creating a similar plasma barrier that could effectively cancel out certain wavelengths of laser.

Now IR and EM signatures are specifically mentioned as what the Normandy's stealth systems cut back on IIRC. At the ranges we're talking about I'm sure the reapers could pick up something but to such sensors maybe the Normandy would appear to be nothing larger than a fighter, thus it would target the more immediate and closer threats like the fighters, gunships, and attack aircraft actually engaging the reapers, plus those worthless shuttles buzzing around.

But a big problem is that the hanger bay is open, and I'm sure that would screw with all of these stealth measures. Plus I find it extremely unlikely that the reapers wouldn't have electro-optical systems that also function in the visible light range.

[Lotion Soronarr]

There's also other ways of detection - but keep in mind that stealth systems like Normandys uses are useless in atmosphere.
Normandy interacts with atmospehre as it passes trough it. Thus it can be detected.

And seriously, and ship should have a full sensor SUITE of different kinds of detection methods.
Even today, you'd have a hard time hiding Normandy..With it's stelath systems..in space.

[Adanu]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Needle-ship in a needle-ship stack. Place is swarmed with aircraft.

In short, they missed it.

Normandy is a WARSHIP. You don't miss it.
Not even with todays radars/sensors could you POSSIBLY miss it. You couldnt' miss it without any sensors - it was right tehre in plain view of 10 reapers.

One warship in the air with hundreds more around it.

As it is, the Reapers were more interested in blowing the cities up than dealing with the mosquitos.

[Almostfaceman]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Needle-ship in a needle-ship stack. Place is swarmed with aircraft.

In short, they missed it.

Yup.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Normandy interacts with atmospehre as it passes trough it. Thus it can be detected.

Yeah I forgot about that. At that level of technology I suppose you'll have sensors able to detect an object based on atmospheric change. Maybe Element Zero wizardry could prevent that? Probably not.

Even today, you'd have a hard time hiding Normandy..With it's stelath systems4..in space.

Presuming it has a way to avoid ladar detection and EM and IR reduction systems work as advertised, I think it would work well enough in space once you're beyond visual range. Of course "visual" range could be expanded quite a bit by whatever EO systems are on modern warships.

The Normandy needs one of those Klingon cloaking devices.

[Goneaviking]

kalle90 wrote...

Rafe34 wrote...

Uh... this one is really, really easy.

1. The Reaper IFF that is still installed in the Normandy may have had an effect, but the real reason is
2. The Normandy's stealth systems. Remember way back in ME1 when that was getting explained? It is asked if it makes the Normandy invisible, the answer is no, it doesn't, anyone could just look out the window and see them coming, but you're invisible to scanners. The thing is, the Reapers are machines. Thus they rely on scanners to see, and so to them, while stealthed, the Normandy is undetectable.

2. Collectors easily found Normandy at the start of ME2, they found it later on (perhaps because of the virus) and at the end Normandy was going nice and easy yet full-scale fight started.

It's too convenient Normandy is untouchable by the Reapers for the entire game. "Hey who's shooting at me, oh it's IFF must have been a missfire"

In the beginning of ME2 the Normandy detected the CS within 30 seconds of activating their stealth systems, presumably they were already being tracked before they turned their sneakies on. The Collectors were organic and had functioning eyes, presumably their pilot and/or gunner would have been able to see the Normandy out a window and aim.

In ME1 it was explained that the stealth capabilities could only be activated for a matter of hours and that they couldn't be used during FTL travel for fear of damaging the ship from overheating. When the Normandy was located and boarded it wasn't on alert and they very conveniently got the drop on the unsneakied ship while the entire crew was clown-carred into the shuttle.

When the Normandy was attacked by the eye-killbot at the end of the trip through the relay the stealth system wasn't active, because yeah it's not used during FTL travel.

It also wouldn't surprise me if it couldn't be used while the weapons systems and/or shields were powered up because of power drain and because the tomfoolery of being able to invisibly snipe at the reapers would lessen the drama of the big space fights.

[Shelondias]

Stealth Systems Engaged.
NOW WITH 100% MOAR CERBERUS DAKKA

[Velhopippuri]

There is no way that they did miss Normandy, it just wasn't important enough for them to even lift a finger. Quite insulting for a badass like Shepard in a way but makes perfect sense, I wouldn't concern myself with a puny little passive warship either if I were them. And the destroyed shuttles, wrong time, wrong place, like if you are sweeping a floor, you don't much concern yourself  about a speck of dust out of your way even an inch, you'll get there eventually to scoop it up so what does it matter.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Shepard's Luck ... it is around +6 in Heroes V standard!

[Goddy10]

Do people have some sort of Masochistic appeal in nitpicking things they're looking forward to, as if their paranoid scrutinization will change anything regardless.

[Vengeful Nature]

To take many of these points in turn...

Tyr-El wrote...

Killing innocents hurts Shepard more. Letting him leave Earth, unable to do anything while the Reapers slaughter his people...

Also, the Normandy's plot armour was upgraded. But mostly the whole "This hurts you".

I disagree. I think killing Shepard hurts Shepard more.

People in this thread wrote...

STEALTH

Except the Collectors didn't seem too fooled by said stealth systems.

People in this thread wrote...

REAPER IFF

Yeah, this has the most potential. It still involves a retcon, though, since originally this was to fool an automated machine and didn't work with actual live Collectors. Also, this theory is almost certainly going to be blown out of the water if the Normandy is targeted by Reapers later in the game. Which is almost certain to happen.

People in this thread wrote...

MAIN CHARACTER BEING KILLED

It's not the point. He didn't have to be killed at all. For example, just off the top of my head, an awesome scene would have been if a group of Alliance ships buy Shepard time to escape by distracting the Reapers, at the cost of their own lives. This would also do a better job of showing the human cost of the invasion, the status of Shepard as the hope of humanity, as well as the power of the Reapers.

People in this thread wrote...

THEY WANT SHEPARD ALIVE

Then disable the Normandy and get him from the crash site. Shoot off a wing when the ship is close to the ground. At that altitude, it'll be a bumpy landing but not a catastrophic one. Boom, Shepard is incapacitated, take his body, ..., profit.

People in this thread wrote...

THE REAPERS ARE cocky

God I hate this one. The Reapers are millions of years more advanced than the current galactic state. They are inconcievably powerful and intelligent hyper-machines. I think that beings this advanced would be beyond human weaknesses like overconfidence. Such vast intelligences would do things the most efficient way and avoid waste. Shepard has already proved himself a great threat, so the most efficient thing to do is to kill or capture him ASAP to end this threat.

Seriously, guys. Engage your critical minds. It's what all good media is for.

drak4806.2 wrote...

I'm curious to why the Reapers didn't EMP Earth before landing it would have made things much easier

Hey, that's a good one. Little loss of life, but disables any unhardened defences, then harvest away, like a kid with a cookie jar. Omnom and such.

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

ediskrad327 wrote...

you don't die in the first 10 minutes of the game? clearly this was made to appeal to the Call of Duty crowd, PREORDER CANCELLED![/i]

You're such a DIVA!![i]

Modifié par Favourite store on the CitadeI, 16 février 2012 - 11:23 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Adanu wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

Needle-ship in a needle-ship stack. Place is swarmed with aircraft.

In short, they missed it.

Normandy is a WARSHIP. You don't miss it.
Not even with todays radars/sensors could you POSSIBLY miss it. You couldnt' miss it without any sensors - it was right tehre in plain view of 10 reapers.

One warship in the air with hundreds more around it.

As it is, the Reapers were more interested in blowing the cities up than dealing with the mosquitos.

What other 100 warships?

Aee you forgettign it was hoverign stationary for an eternity?

[PSUHammer]

crimzontearz wrote...

why doesn't Gandalf ask the great eagles to drop the ring inside mount doom right away?

Great point