479 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

The only possible explonation is that they improved their stealth systems by researching the remains of the ocolus drones.  But i doubt the players get any explanation for this at all.

Modifié par tonnactus, 16 février 2012 - 12:41 .

[DraCZeQQ]

tonnactus wrote...

The only possible explonation is that they improved their stealth systems by researching the remains of the ocolus drones.  But i doubt the players get any explanation for this at all.

you mean the stealth systems that cant be used in atmosphere? (according to lore / codex)

[Adanu]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Reaper IFF.

You do recall the bit about the Reaper IFF being a trap, right?

Does massive reaper stupidy suddenly showing up qualify?

Nothing sudden about it unless some of ME1 and all of ME2 was a (largely successful) attempt at obfuscating stupidity.

You do recall that EDI fixed the IFF afterwards, right?

[AntiChri5]

Yes, it isn't like killing every and anything on an overpopulated planet is a difficult, time consuming task.

There are billions of people on Earth, many would be trying to flee. Is it really impossible to imagine that a ship designed to be invisible being piloted by one of the galaxies greatest pilots with an onboard AI designed to be an anti reaper weapon is one of the ones that make it out? There would be hundreds of thousands of ships flying away, the Normandy does not stand out from the crowd.

[tonnactus]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

The only possible explonation is that they improved their stealth systems by researching the remains of the ocolus drones.  But i doubt the players get any explanation for this at all.

you mean the stealth systems that cant be used in atmosphere? (according to lore / codex)

I didnt find this information in the wikia.

[GnusmasTHX]

DraCZeQQ wrote...

- Reapers dont have human emotions - they dont care, they dont do vengeance, hold grudge, ...

Yes they do.

People need to shrug off this notion that Reaper's are anything more than another race in the galaxy. Geth are more alien to people than the Reapers are. They just have giant, powerful ships and are really old.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

AntiChri5 wrote...
There would be hundreds of thousands of ships flying away, the Normandy does not stand out from the crowd.

Yeah, but at the time the small reaper attacks the shuttles, you have a big shiny frigate that's hovering still and in the general direction of the shuttles' path with the name "NORMANDY" on the side.

Like I said before, maybe the small reapers use motion or something to identify targets. Who knows.

As for the vengeance/grudge thing. They did get Shepard once, wouldn't they try to get him again, when he's right there?

"Shepard, you have become an annoyance."

Modifié par Ghost Rider LSOV, 16 février 2012 - 01:01 .

[Vengeful Nature]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

- Reapers dont have human emotions - they dont care, they dont do vengeance, hold grudge, ...

Yes they do.

People need to shrug off this notion that Reaper's are anything more than another race in the galaxy. Geth are more alien to people than the Reapers are. They just have giant, powerful ships and are really old.

They're giant, godlike (read: sublime indifference) AI warships. What makes you think they'd have emotions?

[andy6915]

Ghost Rider LSOV wrote...

Yeah, but at the time the small reaper attacks the shuttles, you have a big shiny frigate that's hovering still and in the general direction of the shuttles' path with the name "NORMANDY" on the side.

Like I said before, maybe the small reapers use motion or something to identify targets. Who knows.

You assume Reaper's know written English. That has yet to be really proven. And even if the major capital ship types do, a weak small Reaper might not.

Vengeful Nature wrote...

They're giant, godlike (read: sublime indifference) AI warships. What makes you think they'd have emotions?

How about the fact that Reapers are thousands of organic minds linked together like Geth link AI minds? And don't say a spoiled anything, Legion tells you this in ME2.

Modifié par andy69156915, 16 février 2012 - 01:04 .

[Adanu]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

- Reapers dont have human emotions - they dont care, they dont do vengeance, hold grudge, ...

Yes they do.

People need to shrug off this notion that Reaper's are anything more than another race in the galaxy. Geth are more alien to people than the Reapers are. They just have giant, powerful ships and are really old.

They're giant, godlike (read: sublime indifference) AI warships. What makes you think they'd have emotions?

Harbinger, in Arrival, says Shepard has become an annoyance.

Annoyance implies frustration. Frustration is an emotion.

Seriously, brain power here.

[Lotion Soronarr]

tonnactus wrote...

DraCZeQQ wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

The only possible explonation is that they improved their stealth systems by researching the remains of the ocolus drones.  But i doubt the players get any explanation for this at all.

you mean the stealth systems that cant be used in atmosphere? (according to lore / codex)

I didnt find this information in the wikia.

The Stealth systems trap the heat to stop the Normandy hull from heating up and allowing thermal detection.

In atmosphere they are worthless. Moving trough the atmosphere heats up the air around the ship. You can't hide that. And you also have RADAR/LIDAr and other detection methods that work well in atmosphere and Normandy cna't hide from those.

AAAand..you also have optical detection..and Normandy ins't invisible.

[AntiChri5]

Ghost Rider LSOV wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
There would be hundreds of thousands of ships flying away, the Normandy does not stand out from the crowd.

Yeah, but at the time the small reaper attacks the shuttles, you have a big shiny frigate that's hovering still and in the general direction of the shuttles' path with the name "NORMANDY" on the side.

Like I said before, maybe the small reapers use motion or something to identify targets. Who knows.

As for the vengeance/grudge thing. They did get Shepard once, wouldn't they try to get him again, when he's right there?

"Shepard, you have become an annoyance."

It is still, but only for a few seconds. The Reapers are not very fast. They stomp around dramatically, gradually anhialating everything. They don't NEED to be fast, because they are borderline unbeatable. To them, there is no rush this is just the cycle they have performed many many times.

Why would it prioritise the Normandy? Can the Normandy's main gun hurt it? Possibly, but if so only because of the Thanix which the Reaper wouldn't know about. Does that Reaper know Shepard is going to return with all of the fleets to kill it? Nope, that Reaper hasn't read any spooilers. Does that Reaper know Shepard is on the ship? Would it care? (Remember, they call you an annoyance, not a threat). Which does it have a better shot at, the Normandy or the Shuttle?

As far as that Reaper is concerned, that is just another warship too small to be a real threat which will undoubtedly soon rush into the battle and die anyway. Why not take out the shuttles it has a better shot at first? And, by the time it turns it's attention to the Normandy, it is flying away with Stealth systems active, just one barely detectable ship among thousands of targets.

[Vengeful Nature]

andy69156915 wrote...

You assume Reaper's know written English. That has yet to be really proven. And even if the major capital ship types do, a weak small Reaper might not.

... of course they can. Even the most basic omnitool can translate this stuff. A million-year old super-intelligent being will certainly be able to.

How about the fact that Reapers are thousands of organic minds linked together like Geth link AI minds? And don't say a spoiled anything, Legion tells you this in ME2.

Is is confirmed fact that Reaper house organic minds and not more AI programs using smoothied people as a vessel? Anyway, I don't think we know enough about the harvesting technique to be able to judge this. On a personal note, I think the whole people-curry thing is ridiculous, but there you go.

Adanu wrote...

Harbinger, in Arrival, says Shepard has become an annoyance.

Annoyance implies frustration. Frustration is an emotion.

Seriously, brain power here.

You're not doing yourself any favours by accusing people of stupidity. Let's all conduct a calm and civilised discussion about a series we love, without resorting to personal attacks. It's been ages since I played Arrival, so excuse me for not remembering every quote.

[MDT1]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

The Stealth systems trap the heat to stop the Normandy hull from heating up and allowing thermal detection.

In atmosphere they are worthless. Moving trough the atmosphere heats up the air around the ship. You can't hide that. And you also have RADAR/LIDAr and other detection methods that work well in atmosphere and Normandy cna't hide from those.

AAAand..you also have optical detection..and Normandy ins't invisible.

My first reaction to the demo at this point was "why don't you move away, the reaper will kill you, this is stupid writing".
But, though I sympatize with your argumentaion, it is somehow flawed too.

First moving through the atmosphere only heats something up if it moves fast and doesn't just hower around.
If you manage the miracle to capture termal radication in space I see no physical reason why this shoudn't work in an atmosphere(as long as you move "slow").
Secondly, there are even today stealth methods for radar. And it would complitly useless to invest into an expensive and complex system to avoid thermal detection if you can be seen on every 200 year old radar system.
And while the Normandy isn't invisible for human eyes, it is just likely and not obligatory that reapers can see our spectrum of light with whatever they have for eyes.

Modifié par MDT1, 16 février 2012 - 01:46 .

[stysiaq]

because it would be stupid to loose normandy in the very beginning. Simple as that.
100000 equally pointless questions can be asked, would each one get a thread?

[GnusmasTHX]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

You're not doing yourself any favours by accusing people of stupidity. Let's all conduct a calm and civilised discussion about a series we love, without resorting to personal attacks. It's been ages since I played Arrival, so excuse me for not remembering every quote.

You're not doing yourself any favours by trying to debate a topic you've admitted you're unfamiliar with.

You don't need to play Arrival, play the rest of ME1 and ME2.

Anything spoken by any Reaper is a human quality. What reason do they have to speak, let alone repeatedly tell us we're going to feel something, if they aren't urged by more basic instincts of... god knows whatever the point of Harbinger's tirades were.

Sovereign himself is full-on gloating. Completely, entirely. Either that or he actually forgot what he is.

I concede that all these may be in an attempt to mess with Shepard psychologically, maybe even indoctrinate him, but damn are they comically ineffective. Harbinger get's more lines than anyone else in the series, probably. And sadly, they're all variations of the same thing.

I don't explain myself to my dog when I tell him to get the paper for me. Nor does my mom explain herself to me when she takes my train set away. I can't imagine why a Reaper would even bother with Shepard. (I mean other than Reapers are characters and writing and story and stuff)

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 16 février 2012 - 01:58 .

[Vengeful Nature]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Vengeful Nature wrote...

You're not doing yourself any favours by accusing people of stupidity. Let's all conduct a calm and civilised discussion about a series we love, without resorting to personal attacks. It's been ages since I played Arrival, so excuse me for not remembering every quote.

You're not doing yourself any favours by trying to debate a topic you've admitted you're unfamiliar with.

You don't need to play Arrival, play the rest of ME1 and ME2.

Anything spoken by any Reaper is a human quality. What reason do they have to speak, let alone repeatedly tell us we're going to feel something, if they aren't urged by more basic instincts of... god knows whatever the point of Harbinger's tirades were.

Sovereign himself is full-on gloating. Completely, entirely. Either that or he actually forgot what he is.

I concede that all these may be in an attempt to mess with Shepard psychologically, maybe even indoctrinate him, but damn are they comically ineffective. Harbinger get's more lines than anyone else in the series, probably. And sadly, they're all variations of the same thing.

I don't explain myself to my dog when I tell him to get the paper for me. Nor does my mom explain herself to me when she takes my train set away. I can't imagine why a Reaper would even bother with Shepard.

I agree. Because this is what I believe to be a major flaw in Mass Effect's writing, I guess I can't really talk about it's consequences in-game without disregarding it entirely. Thankyou for this discussion.

[andy6915]

Vengeful Nature wrote...
Is is confirmed fact that Reaper house organic minds and not more AI programs using smoothied people as a vessel? Anyway, I don't think we know enough about the harvesting technique to be able to judge this. On a personal note, I think the whole people-curry thing is ridiculous, but there you go.

Sounded like it. Listen for yourself.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

andy69156915 wrote...
You assume Reaper's know written English. That has yet to be really proven. And even if the major capital ship types do, a weak small Reaper might not.

Yeah, that's why I say that perhaps they use motion tracking afterwards.
(silly small reapers )

[Lotion Soronarr]

AntiChri5 wrote...
It is still, but only for a few seconds.

Try a full minute. That's an eternity in combat.

Why would it prioritise the Normandy?

Because it's a warship.
Because i'ts advanced.
Because it's know to be Shepards ship.

[Lotion Soronarr]

MDT1 wrote...
My first reaction to the demo at this point was "why don't you move away, the reaper will kill you, this is stupid writing".
But, though I sympatize with your argumentaion, it is somehow flawed too.

First moving through the atmosphere only heats something up if it moves fast and doesn't just hower around.
If you manage the miracle to capture termal radication in space I see no physical reason why this shoudn't work in an atmosphere(as long as you move "slow").
Secondly, there are even today stealth methods for radar. And it would complitly useless to invest into an expensive and complex system to avoid thermal detection if you can be seen on every 200 year old radar system.
And while the Normandy isn't invisible for human eyes, it is just likely and not obligatory that reapers can see our spectrum of light with whatever they have for eyes.

- Because traping heat inside he ship, and trapign heat AROUND the ship are two completely different thigs
- because radar stealth is less effective with distance and size.
- because you imply reapers see LESS than we do? You know, even todays tanks/helicopeters can "see" in a wider spectrum than humans can, do you?

[nitefyre410]

Why wasn't the Normandy blown out the sky... because Joker is just that DAMN good... that's why.

You can have all the fancy bells and whistle you want and they do help but nothing can replace... sheer talent on top of skill.

[Itkovian]

See, there's plenty of reasons why it made it out, we cannot assume a plot hole when such explanations exist. It doesn't take much imagination.

For myself, I'd say the best explanation would be EDI. Messing around with Reapers is precisely what she was built to do. It'd her primary function. It is very plausible that in the chaos of the planetary invasion she was able to use her Electronic Warfare suite to mess with the reapers and ensure the Normandy is overlooked (or that the reapers couldn't target it).

Itkovian

[AntiChri5]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...
It is still, but only for a few seconds.

Try a full minute. That's an eternity in combat.

Why would it prioritise the Normandy?

Because it's a warship.
Because i'ts advanced.
Because it's know to be Shepards ship.

Not in a target rich environment it isn't. It is flying away by the time the Reaper takes down the shuttle.

And? There are thousands of warships flying about, in a fight the Normandy is nothing compared to a Dreadnought, many of which the Reapers easily destroyed. The Nomrandy poses very little threat to a Reaper, so it being a warship is irrelevant. Actually, it being a warship may be why it wasn't prioritised. You are thinking in terms of a normal war, in which both sides represent a threat to each other and would prioritise eliminating their military. Thats not what this is, and that's not how the Reapers see it. This is a Reaping. A culling, an annhialation, a genocide. Thjeir goal is to kill everything, civillian ships run away and warships attack you, it osn't surprising that with the Alliance warships posing no threat to Reapers they prioritise fleeing shuttles over Frigates.

It being advanced by our standards doesn't mean a thing. A rock tied to a stick is more advanced then a stick, but that doesn't mean much to someone with a tank.

Why would that matter? Shepard is an annoyance, and they don't know whether he is onboard.

[Collider]

Maybe they want to keep Shepard alive if possible.