206 réponses à ce sujet

[iSpiN]

Arthas9 wrote...

I quote myself from another topic:



1. It's full of bugs

a) disappearing and backshifting reaper : I'm talking about the first one you come across in the game. While you're talking to the kid it moves by the building you are in - at least its legs do (you can clearly see it), but when you get out of the building it's back in its original position again, and last but not the least it simply disappears after the fall you make when the warship goes down). Mysterious to say the least.

I will have to check it next time I go through the runthrough.

Anyone else have issues with the brightness in the game?  I had to set my PS3 and PC versions to maximum lighting and can still barely see the N7.

[Arthas9]

It's also funny to see the human fighters fly through the reapers while fighting them and the little 2d husks running sideways... not a big deal, but I like to take my time and observe when I test something.

[Meken]

So glad someone else noticed the lip sync! I was trying to figure out what the hell was bugging me about the animations, then it hit me.
Great points, agree with everything for sure.

[Arthas9]

I had no problem with brightness in the demo. I can see the N7 perfectly. ME 2 was slightly darker on my system (pc), but I liked it dark.

[Arthas9]

BTW, these were my concernes: (I'm glad that I'm not the only one who noticed many of these issues... I still hope most of it is a demo exclusive thingy)

1. It's full of bugs

a) disappearing and backshifting reaper : I'm talking about the first one you come across in the game. While you're talking to the kid it moves by the building you are in - at least its legs do (you can clearly see it), but when you get out of the building it's back in its original position again, and last but not the least it simply disappears after the fall you make when the warship goes down). Mysterious to say the least.
disappearing gun during animation : It happens in Surkesh during one of the cutscenes at a checkpoint.
c) invisible turret : it happened to me once. One of the turrets seemed invisible, but it was fiering at me as hell, though the little red frame appeared when I aimed at it with "my" gun, so I put the sneaky bastard to rest.
d) Wreave's voice is on the radio instead of Wrex's.

2. It has unresolved motion and controll issues:

a) Sprinting feels unnatural and it looks like you just float in the air. Let alone there's no exhaustion as such.
The problematic cover system: There were occasions when I simply couldn't get into cover, but kept rolling against the wall. There was one time when I tried to shoot from behind cover and Shep didn't lean out from behind the wall but leaned against it so I could only shoot the metal plating on it. ME2-s cover system was a lot more dynamic.
c) The omni-button: I'm talking about the spacebar here. Sometimes tends to get irritating then you want to do one thing with it but you keep doing something else.
d) Basic movement speed is way slower then in earlier installments.
e) Lack of the holster gun option.
f) Sensitivity of power buttons are pretty bad: I happen to be a pc player, so I don't know wether it happens to console players, but it happens quite often that whenever I clikck on a power button with my mouse, nothing happens, so I have to repeat it a few times in a row. It takes a lot from the combat dynamics.

3. Graphics and animation: I find the graphics a bit ambivalent. It is very nice and spectacular and seems to be very unpolished at the same time. IMHO ME2 looked way better when it comes to actual graphics, lighting and colours. Animation is a lot better though - and it is a huge improvement from all the previous games, except for facial animation and few minor issues. I loved the small details and the delivery of animations between parts where you controll Shepard and cutscenes. It flows really well.

a) Textures are blurry and their resolution is pretty low: It's especially evident when you look at the characters clothing or at the buildings in the backround (they seem to be unfinished models that lack detail and depth).
I miss the movie grain effect very much.
c) Some tiny issues with background animation: 2D husks running sideway, fighters shooting at reaper fly through the reapers etc.
d) Facial animations and lipsync are lacking and unnatural sometimes (especially wiht Anderson) compared to the previous games.
e) Water animation is pretty bad in the prologue.
f) Backgrounds, sets seem to be a bit lifeless sometimes (especially in Surkesh).
g) It's very annoying when the bodies of shot enemies disappear just like that without any animation and it happens right in front of your eyes after about 2-3 seconds.

3. Story, script, dialogue system:

a) Autodialogue and lack of choices. In the demo the good old dialogue and choces and concequences system which both played a huge part in making the whole series remarkable and so popular are pretty much absent. Hopefully it's a demo only issue.
If this is the real prologue of the game indeed, then I got to say that it's the one that is the worst by far in the series - no matter the potential and the spectacular setting. As a script-piece and especially as prologue it does not work, it leaves nothing but confusion and questions in the players' minds (even in those who played the firt two installments). It does not let you get involved in the plot at all. It rashes things and lets no time for warming up for the events that await you. Even as an in medias res it doesn't work too well. A slower pace, more sensible dialogues and an opportunity to get familiar with past and recent events and to be introduced to certain individuals would have made it a lot, I mean a LOT better. Don't forget that these are the first moments of a very anticipated game. I hope it does not resemble the whole script and the pacing of the whole game. It's pretty sloppy at places and uninspired. I also miss the trial as a consequence to Arrival - it could have been a relevant scene plotwise. I could live with it though.
c) Some of the characters are out of their characters in the demo (e.g.: Wrex fearing to land with the shuttle because of potential danger... I mean... come on!)

[Relix28]

I agree with the new roll and cover mechanics. They feel super clucky, and my Shep is almost always rolling into cover instead of slipping into cover. Gears of War has the exact same cover and roll mechanics, as far as inputs go, yet I rarely had problems with it in any of the GoW games (I've played through all 3 of them several times + multiplayer).
Here's what I think the problem is. In GoW, there is a certain distance limit between your character and objects of cover that determine wheter your character will execute a roll or slip into cover. And it works well, once you get the feel for that distance. ME3 on the other hand, uses a very or almost the exact same movement/sprint/roll/cover mechanic, but it doesn't seem to be working very well. It seems mostly random and unreliable, because I think they didn't properly program that "distance limit" I was talking about earlier. There were instances, where my character slipped into cover form about a meter or so away, but there were also instances where I was literaly running against a wall, then pressed A to enter cover, and the character would roll into it first and then take cover.
I really hope they tweeked this for the final version, because it behaved very poorly in the demo.

[S1L0]

Quick 2 cents ...


Sprinting animation with one handed weapon is an EYESORE.
People don't move that way. Under any circumstance. It's just wrong.
Mass Effect 2 one handed animation was MUCH better.
How did we get here from the previous GLORY.

Sprinting animation with rifle is still weird.
Not as bad as the one handed animation though.

It seems like they tried to make the animations less
vertical in order to give the impression of faster running - also wrong.
All this crouch run silliness of the last few years must stop.

[CC-Tron]

All this talk about the bad run/walk animations makes me curious about how they handled Shep's walking animations aboard the Normandy.

[Pacifien]

iSpiN wrote...
My question to you is who would buy a product when the fanbase is disappointed with it?

I can guarantee you the best marketing isn't the opinion of the person who played the demo, but the person who played the game itself.

Now, if you're not going to buy the game because of what you experienced in the demo, that was the gamble BioWare had to make when marketing the game. And long forum experience tells me I'm going to hear from 100 people disappointed about their demo experience before I hear from the 1 person who had a positive demo experience, and that is going to be disproportionate to the actual experience of the sum total of everyone who played the demo.

That's not to say you don't have valid concerns, because like I had said in my first response, I agree with you on some of your concerns. Except for the "Items By Cover" bit. If that causes people to die because they're greedy bastards trying to loot in the middle of a gunfight, that's awesome. But then again, I play on Insanity.

[Tonymac]

Pacifien wrote...

I'm going to assume the lack of choices was specifically because it was a demo you were playing. I did wonder about the "numerous" option not leading us anywhere with the second half of the demo, but those two things probably were not meant to be connected. It's apparently an option for the character creator. How it's going to affect the game is only something you see if you play the game. What, you want the demo to spoil everything?

Now, bear in mind my experience is with the PC and XBox 360 versions:

But other than that, the run/cover/roll/action button seems to have caused similar problems that the developers had when Mass Effect 1 came out when Shepard automatically went into cover whether you wanted him to or not. To be fair, I do believe that run/cover/action was the same in ME2, they just added roll to it this time. And my problem is that I'd run to an object expecting to hit cover once there, but Shepard wouldn't do it. I'd have to hit the button a couple times. Then roll can become a bit of an issue, but I haven't experimented much with it.

For items by cover, I did fall into the trap of trying to grab them a couple times during a firefight. It reminded me of Tali's loyalty mission where I always grabbed the Quarian model ship before starting the battle with the Geth Prime at the end. But do remember that there will always be a little time to loot grab after you've killed off the enemy before proceeding to the next section. I say a little time, because BioWare apparently thought of that too and sent a second wave of Cerberus cronies after me during the last checkpoint when I was trying desperately to looking for medkits. But the time was there.

I do agree that the running sounds and walking/running animation were poor. I gathered they were deemed little details that could be sacrificed for memory, but it's the little details that make you feel immersed in the environment.

Oh, right, and I do think the leaked demo was never meant to be seen by the general public. In fact, it wasn't seen by the general public, it was seen by the hardcore fanbase who crave spoilers. Marketing isn't geared toward them, it's geared toward the general public. I know that might sound harsh, but if you're already a fan of the series, why does marketing need to market to you? Why do you want to be marketed?

I can agree with ALL of this post.  It is well thought out.

I am also upgrading some of my earlier thoughts on the Demo.  The more I play it and with different classes and powers, the more I see whats really happening.  Walk run speed IS slowed if you carry too many weapons - we just cannot (in the single player) change what weapons we carry, nor can we drop one.  I believe that this is necessary for saving Demo file space - as well as show us  the infamous "you are doing it wrong".  As a demo this makes sense.  I want to see if an adept can carry all kinds of weapons - and you can - but at a cost.  This will also make you feel 'under the gun' - because you do not always have the right gun for the circumstance.  Lighten up, and move faster - or carry an arsenal and move like an old man with synthetic knees.  I suppose for some reason carrying more stuff makes an adepts powers take longer to recharge - but its not like I have a real-world example of an adept that I can ask what is the 'reality' behind this boggling dilemma.  Its their game, their rules.  This is the last game in the series, and I want it to be difficult.

Speaking of difficulty - I tried the 'story mode'.  I enjoyed it a lot, but really started to laugh when I went to melee a guy, who moved.  I did a good job of screaming at the air I stabbed with my omni-tool, and was completely out in the open.  My shields might have dropped by about 1%, if at all - and I was taking a lot of fire.  This is exactly what 'casual mode' was in the earlier games.  You can see the story, control it, and feel like a powerhouse, or dial it up and feel the burn.

I did perform some head shots - and the effect was devastating.  I really got a kick out of it as the Cerberus guy's head got sheared off into a cloud of red misty goo.  It was like YES - I got you!  GET SOME!

The new roll mechanic is cool and all, but needs some re-working.  While it is impressive to roll all around like William Shatner in the old Star Trek series - or even waddle as an adept carrying an arsenal (and then roll around like fat man cop T.J. Hooker), it is not fun getting stuck on every single corner imagineable.  Its like I am magnetized to cover when I want to run near it..  If Cerberus was smart, they would just drop chairs and bookshelves everywhere and snipe us as we took about 4.5 days to get through the room.  I am hoping that this is an early version of the mechanic and that the finer nuances will be worked out.

All in all, I am impressed with the Demo.  Taking into account that it is only a Demo - you can see that there are elements of extreme 'goodness' abound.  Sure - some of the acting is cheesy , some of the choices and answers from Shep are incongruous - its a demo!  When you look at ME1 and 2, there is one thing that is highly consistent - and that is the care and time taken to make it all work right and flow smoothly.  Those games shined, and from what I can see this one will as well.  I love the game engine and graphics - as well as the AI.  Squaddies are not complete simpletons, and the enemies are coming to get you.  Sometimes I wonder why they do not mount a phalanx assult behind the shield guys - but maybe that happens in the really hard modes *cough*.

[davidshooter]

@Arthas9

I'm in complete agreement with everything you posted. I'm also like you in that I'm not a hater and I'm seriously hoping that the final game is different. This is (hopefully not was) my favorite game franchise, I really want to be blown away by the game.

One other thing that is actually really effecting my enjoyment is that I can't recreate my Shep in the new creator, I'm sure it seems like a little thing but it really bugs me that I have to play with a Shep that looks very different. Having the same custom character from the first game was one of my favorite things about the seires.

[iSpiN]

I can guarantee you the best marketing isn't the opinion of the person who played the demo, but the person who played the game itself.

No one has played the actual game, but before you say my opinion is irrelevant think about this.  The demo was released less than a month before the release date.  THE RELEASE DATE.  Most will claim that this isn't the final product.  Well... what am I buying March 6th?  You left me this demo that seems to have less quality than ME2 so what am I supposed to base my judgement on whether to purchase the game or not?  I mean if I'm trying out the game and it has so many issues before release then you have a problem.  If this same demo was released three months prior to release maybe your argument would hold water, but sadly it does not.

When everyone you talk to claims the demo was bad/disappoint and all these people who loved ME over the years are considering cancelling their pre-order then you have a problem.

Now, if you're not going to buy the game because of what you experienced in the demo, that was the gamble BioWare had to make when marketing the game. And long forum experience tells me I'm going to hear from 100 people disappointed about their demo experience before I hear from the 1 person who had a positive demo experience, and that is going to be disproportionate to the actual experience of the sum total of everyone who played the demo.

Well from forum experience you should know that Dragon Age II says hi.

Except for the "Items By Cover" bit. If that causes people to die because they're greedy bastards trying to loot in the middle of a gunfight, that's awesome. But then again, I play on Insanity.

Well glad you play on insanity on how that has so much relevance.  You missed the entire point.  I'm trying to cover and there is an item by it.  I won't be aware of the item is there until I look in that direction and at that point I am picking up the item versus using those precious seconds I need to survive an onslaught of weapon fire.  

This is basically a cheap way to die and that isn't favorable by anyones standard of gaming.


Back to the original question can we get a dev or bold to respond to the version of the demo please?

[Wiggs Magee]

I agree with you
I really disliked the opening scene of the demo Shepard talked a large amount most of which you wasn't even down to you. To me it just seemed that they used this demo to appeal to people not used to RPG games.
I really hated the moving animation especially when holding a pistol it just seems so unnatural and robotic.

[iSpiN]

Wiggs Magee wrote...

I agree with you
I really disliked the opening scene of the demo Shepard talked a large amount most of which you wasn't even down to you. To me it just seemed that they used this demo to appeal to people not used to RPG games.
I really hated the moving animation especially when holding a pistol it just seems so unnatural and robotic.

That's why they have action mode.  Or at least that's what I thought.  Lack of choices was saddening.  ME2 beta had way more choices and had me way more pumped up for release.

[Relix28]

S1L0 wrote...

Quick 2 cents ...


Sprinting animation with one handed weapon is an EYESORE.
People don't move that way. Under any circumstance. It's just wrong.
Mass Effect 2 one handed animation was MUCH better.
How did we get here from the previous GLORY.

Sprinting animation with rifle is still weird.
Not as bad as the one handed animation though.

It seems like they tried to make the animations less
vertical in order to give the impression of faster running - also wrong.
All this crouch run silliness of the last few years must stop.

Oh yeah, I cringe every time I see my Shep running in the 1st lvl of the demo. It just feels so unnecessary and synthetic, like (s)he's really trying too hard at doing it. The legs are spread to wide, hands move in a weird way and the posture looks really forced. It's cringe inducing, is what it is.

[Arthas9]

iSpiN wrote...

Wiggs Magee wrote...

I agree with you
I really disliked the opening scene of the demo Shepard talked a large amount most of which you wasn't even down to you. To me it just seemed that they used this demo to appeal to people not used to RPG games.
I really hated the moving animation especially when holding a pistol it just seems so unnatural and robotic.

That's why they have action mode.  Or at least that's what I thought.  Lack of choices was saddening.  ME2 beta had way more choices and had me way more pumped up for release.

Yeah, but lets just hope that the final version will have just as many choices and dialogue options, if not more, than the beta. One can also notice that in the beta the conversation between Anderson and Shepard, after he was escorted out of his "cell" by Vega made a lot more sense and refers to the events of the first two installments a lot more specificly. Lets just hope that the imported saves has something to do with it. If you think about it to a newcomer those unexplained pieces of information wouldn't mean anything anyways. To him or her it's enough to know that the commander is grounded because of past events but is not courtmarshalled because of his knowledge of the actual danger, so that's why the committee trusts him and instead of treating him as a prisoner they treat him as someone with deeper understanding and experience with the reapers. Now that I payed a lot more attention to the script, I got to say that it does make a lot more sense from a necomer's point of view. To a newcomer everything and everybody is completely new, so he or she wouldn't care about the introduction of Vega or the explanation of Shepard's grounding or - which is a major issue to me -  the explanation of the reason why Admiral Anderson is on Earth and not on the Citadell as Earth's representative in the Council etc.. These pieces of information would give a lot more sense to the prologue and they would make it a lot better paced dramatically. And as for the dialogue - once again - I just can't believe that they would have dropped the one major feature that made Mass Effect so great and remarkable. I think that the dialogue options are deliberately dumbed down for the demos sake. I very much hope so...

Modifié par Arthas9, 16 février 2012 - 12:45 .

[Matt VT Schlo]

Well Said, iSpiN - I agree with most of those. While I have a CE on preorder and am not about to cancel, I am pushing my playtime back until I've completed my other games first.

Modifié par Matt VT Schlo, 16 février 2012 - 12:45 .

[Setharn]

Half way through the second area, I suddenly couldn't access the equipment/power panel, could bring it up but couldn't click on anything to activate squad powers or change weapons, slightly hard fighting Atlas when the squad keep using useless abilities. Aside from that also had issues with the roll/cover/everything spacebar of doom, randomly popping in and out of cover or rolling to nowhere and being shot by everything. That aside still found the demo entertaining

[Pacifien]

iSpiN wrote...
No one has played the actual game, but before you say my opinion is irrelevant think about this.  The demo was released less than a month before the release date.  THE RELEASE DATE.  Most will claim that this isn't the final product.  Well... what am I buying March 6th?

You honestly do not have to buy it on March 6th. You really don't. This concept of preordering with their preorder bonuses? It's a trick. It's a trick to get someone who is on the fence about a product to cave and purchase said product.

I bought Mass Effect 1 on the first day without ever having played any demo. And that game's combat is bugged to hell, I'd hate to see what people would have thought if they had a demo then.

iSpiN wrote...

Except for the "Items By Cover" bit. If that causes people to die because they're greedy bastards trying to loot in the middle of a gunfight, that's awesome. But then again, I play on Insanity.

Well glad you play on insanity on how that has so much relevance.  You missed the entire point.

No, I didn't miss your point. I disagreed with it. Just because you saw the item doesn't mean you need to go pick it up right then and there. It really doesn't.

iSpiN wrote... 
Back to the original question can we get a dev or bold to respond to the version of the demo please?

If that's the information you really wanted, I would have asked that first, and only that, and then pounced later.

[sea-]

Regarding lip sync - the game is designed to run at 30 fps on consoles. My guess is that the audio is not optimized for running at higher framerates and thus leads to sync problems. This can be clearly observed in the prior two Mass Effect games as well, where certain music tracks and audio cues did not match up with the game action properly when running at 60 fps or higher. Capping the game to 30 fps fixes these problems and seems to improve things in Mass Effect 3 significantly as well.

[iSpiN]

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

Well Said, iSpiN - I agree with most of those. While I have a CE on preorder and am not about to cancel, I am pushing my playtime back until I've completed my other games first.

I'm going to let my preorders stay where they are for a week and see how the reviews of the vast majority play out.  Specifically looking for people who've played the demo and see if there any improvements from the demo to the final product.  If no differences seen from the demo and no news of an upcoming patch I can safely say Bioware will lose my money.

Shame that I once considered Bioware to be a company of some of the best quality in game development and now I am left to question their star series.  My trust in game developers wane over the years.

[Arthas9]

sea- wrote...

Regarding lip sync - the game is designed to run at 30 fps on consoles. My guess is that the audio is not optimized for running at higher framerates and thus leads to sync problems. This can be clearly observed in the prior two Mass Effect games as well, where certain music tracks and audio cues did not match up with the game action properly when running at 60 fps or higher. Capping the game to 30 fps fixes these problems and seems to improve things in Mass Effect 3 significantly as well.

How do I do that?

[iSpiN]

[quote]You honestly do not have to buy it on March 6th. You really don't. This concept of preordering with their preorder bonuses? It's a trick. It's a trick to get someone who is on the fence about a product to cave and purchase said product.[/quote]I agree, however the preordering is irrelevant.  Topic is about the demo.

[quote]I bought Mass Effect 1 on the first day without ever having played any demo. And that game's combat is bugged to hell, I'd hate to see what people would have thought if they had a demo then.[/quote]I played it sometime after initial release and I can vouche for that.

[quote]No, I didn't miss your point. I disagreed with it. Just because you saw the item doesn't mean you need to go pick it up right then and there. It really doesn't.[/quote]Still missing the point.  I did not want the item.  I didn't see the item until after I tried to hit cover.  Guess what.  The cover and action button are the same button.  I don't understand how you fail to understand this.

[quote]iSpiN wrote... 
Back to the original question can we get a dev or bold to respond to the version of the demo please?[/quote]
If that's the information you really wanted, I would have asked that first, and only that, and then pounced later.
[/quote]Left it in my original post in bold text.  Most of my OP as I said was to give the devs an idea of my qualms and ask if the final product will reflect the demo.  I organized my thoughts regarding the demo... I fail to see why this matters.

[Nocturnal Link]

I noticed the exact same laziness as you did the first time through... After playing Skyrim and BF3, and seeing the advance made from ME1 to 2,
I'm not impressed... I'm actually disappointed and feel like another
game was thrown together as fast as possible to make some more money.
The animations they did for the talking scenes are awkward, the textures
are pretty bland... I can see squares in the shadeing on Anderson's
face. Have you actually looked at his ankles when he runs? I also saw
SPRITES in the background... yes SPRITES, like straight out of Heretic.

[Niflkkojaer]

I'm pretty sure it's confirmed the story mode of the demo is the old version from November that Xbox Dashboard testers could used. All they did was add some animations. I have a feeling the final game will be great.

HOWEVER the sprinting animations and cover system is almost mandatory to fix. It ridiculous how much I've died from rolling and cover problems. They need to allow remapping buttons in all versions of the game. It the third game and the trilogy, and you mine as well go out with a bang.

I also 100% agree with you iSpiN.