40 réponses à ce sujet

[Tennmuerti]

I was just thinking about my talk with Alistair about how drinking the blood is basically a death sentence and you only have a maximum of 30 years more to live. Then thinking about it some more I realised: Hey so what? Why is this such a  big deal?
Assuming the human lifespan is generally the same in game as irl.
Assuming that the setting is generally medieval. -   lifespan is shortened
Assuming you wouln't conscript untrained boys. - recruits are 20-30 years old

I personally would not expect for a soldier to live past 40 in a medival setting. So if youre 20 at the time of the joining then the time limit part of it is kid of meaningless.

Even if we assume that it is a time limit of 30 years total (ie you die at around 30+) still not so bad actually, would you really expect to live much longer as some one who is constantly fighting anyway?

Just thinking out loud. Anyone agree?

[Aldandil]

I agree to some extent. We don't know the average life span in Ferelden, maybe most people who got to live to see their 20th birthday often lived to about 60 (with surviving disease in young years and all that), maybe Fereldans are simply healthy. Then it might be a bit of a short straw. But considering the Grey Wardens line of work, you'd think that expecting to live well past 30 years more is a bit optimistic anyway. I mean, eventually dying from the taint wouldn't be the worst part of the deal, joining an order that seeks out its enemies and from which there seems to be no real retirement might be just as bad.

[Damagination]

They have healing magic and advanced alchemy, so I'd hazard the lifespans of humans in Ferelden is far longer than they were in real-world medieval times. Also, elves and dwarves are known to have longer lifespans than humans again, so the 30 years would be a slap in the face for them.

[Damagination]

(Gah, double post.)

Modifié par Damagination, 24 novembre 2009 - 12:29 .

[Dragoon001]

Every heard of Bernal Díaz del Castillo?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernal_D%C3%ADaz_del_Castillo

He was born in Spain in the year 1492 and died at the age of 93 in year 1585. He was a season soldier and later become Conquistador. Participated in the first exploration to the American mainland to be often the sole survivor. Eventually joined Hernán Cortés expedition to Mexico that ended with the conquer and demise of the Aztec Empire. He fought an unknown number of battles but alone in the Aztec Campaign it was over hundred battles. He was injured over 40 times.
After the Aztec campaign he joined several more expeditions exploring southern Central America and finally became governor of Guatemala.

So I disagree,
of cause I must admit he is the most toughest human I every heard and read, and I read alot.

Modifié par Dragoon001, 24 novembre 2009 - 12:31 .

[Rugaru]

hmm yes one person living to 93 means the average life expectancy jumps to what...an hour more...



but as far as the game is concerned I don't think that 30 yrs was a big deal considering that if you survived long enough to feel the calling you went down to the tunnels to fight till you were overwhelmed...

[dannythefool]

The 30 years are obviously only a random number he pulled out of thin air based on his experience from knowing other wardens. It's not like a fixed countdown that is the same for everyone. If you read the books (in particular The Calling) you'll also know that wardens don't actually die of the taint after their time is up. The taint makes them change in a way that they don't approve of, and they prefer to die in battle.

[Haasth]

You can't really consider the medieval lifespan our 'ancestors' had compared to those in Ferelden. As mentioned they have pretty powerful healing. If anything, they would probably be around our current lifespan.



As mentioned by, I think, a BioWare Dev the taint is different for everyone and the 30 years isn't always a given. Fact remains, they become incredibly aware of their impending death.

[Haasth]

dannythefool wrote...
 The taint makes them change in a way that they don't approve of,

Could you elaborate this a bit? How exactly do they change? Mentally? Physically? I picture something like dementia.

[Cammy2709]

Dragoon001 wrote...

Every heard of Bernal Díaz del Castillo?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernal_D%C3%ADaz_del_Castillo

He was born in Spain in the year 1492 and died at the age of 93 in year 1585. He was a season soldier and later become Conquistador. Participated in the first exploration to the American mainland to be often the sole survivor. Eventually joined Hernán Cortés expedition to Mexico that ended with the conquer and demise of the Aztec Empire. He fought an unknown number of battles but alone in the Aztec Campaign it was over hundred battles. He was injured over 40 times.
After the Aztec campaign he joined several more expeditions exploring southern Central America and finally became governor of Guatemala.

So I disagree,
of cause I must admit he is the most toughest human I every heard and read, and I read alot.

Hah that was actually a pretty interesting read. The guy sounded like a total nutjob mind. Although next playthrough I think I'm gonna call my warden Bernal Diaz del Castillo Cousland.

With regards to the OP, I partially agree with you, but I think it's there to show what wardens face. It's not really meant to be taken into much detail, just something epic that wardens must face. My opinion anyway.

[Buddhess75]

Remember that GW do not live only to the age of 30. They live (giving or taking a few years) around 30 years _after_ they go through the joining. So your character should live until his/hers 50s or so.



It is sort of a death setence and "bad" only because you got no other choice. You will die and you will know when you will die. IT won't be random, it won't be your choice (if you want to suicide). It is a fact that you will die in about 30 years no matter what you do.



Realising you are going to die at day X puts things in a very different perspective for most people. Some people take this kind of thing a carpe diem and go around like nuts, enjoying as much as they can. And other people take it really badly, feeling completly lost and that everything is pointless. And simply give up.



In the game, that has little impact, but if it were something of huge impact

[Tennmuerti]

Ohhh so many interesting replies, /hug everyone.



Regarding the elves and dwarfs, yeah could be a bummer for them. If they don't die in combat that is.

Regarding the single Spanish dude, like Couldar already mention one person doesnt't really mean much.

Thanks to Buddhess75 for clarification that it is as I understood, 30 years after the joining, not total.

I understand it's not a countdown but an approximation.

The reason I brought this up is because in the game it is made to sound like it is a big deal, when 20+30=50 and damn if I live to 50 fighting all the time I would be one lucky mofo. (Heroic BS aside) Kind of looses the gravitas.



@dannythefool is The Calling any good as a book, aside from the lore point?

Do the wardens change in some way beside getting more nightmares and/or becoming unstable? (so that they have to go die fighting)

[Nimander]

One thing to remember is that medieval average verses maximum lifespan is something of a meme in modern day. It's certainly true that we live longer than those in the past. However... most people refer to the average, which is the result of a great deal of infant mortality.



You want the average lifespan disregarding infant mortality and chidhood mortality figures, which pushes the average up.

[Jonnybear84]

I always thought that the limited life span of a Grey Warden wasn't too much of a harsh deal, the bad part of the deal would come in knowing that there is no light at the end of the tunnel, you either die young in battle against darkspawn or something or you survive only to then be required to go on your calling, having only 30 years or so left to live is one thing, knowing that if you survive you then have to descend into the deep roads to meet your fate alone at the end of those 30 years is another.

[Nighteye2]

Haasth wrote...

dannythefool wrote...
 The taint makes them change in a way that they don't approve of,

Could you elaborate this a bit? How exactly do they change? Mentally? Physically? I picture something like dementia.

The Darkspawn have a hive mind, so I assume that it's influence gets stronger over time. It is mostly conjecture based on what I know that the devs have talked about, but I suspect that they choose to go when they feel their self-control beginning to slip.

Kind of like how normal people turn into Ghouls, but much more gradual...

[Medivan]

Also keep in mind, Allistair says the dreams come back before The Calling. I'd assume this is something akin to Night Terrors or worse. The willpower of the individual Warden I would imagine has a LOT to do with the 30 year mark. After all look at Avernus in Warden's Peak, extending your life naturally or unnaturally shouldn't matter as the The Calling would wear down everyone over time, and yet he's still there experimenting away.

[Taleroth]

Tennmuerti wrote...

I personally would not expect for a soldier to live past 40 in a medival setting.

Why not?  Their middle age setting isn't the same as our middle ages.  They may try to create similarities, but the magic and universities for teaching magic can functionally be closer to an industrial era than a than a true medieval one, while still having all the trappings.

Standard of living can potentially be even higher.  Their poultices work.

[SilkyChicken]

Actually, something I just found out in my history class. It was really just the commoners who died young. All throughout history, the nobles (especially noble women), lived about as long as we do. If they survived child-birth, warfare, etc. So if a person was rich, and got lucky, there'd be no reason they couldn't live to 80.

[BGFU888]

It is important to keep in mind that low life expectancy in the middle ages was brought down a lot by high infant mortality rates and such. If you could make it to 20, you had a pretty decent shot of living for a while longer provided you weren't living in 1347...

[JamesX]

Average of 30 years. Not minimum of 30 years.

You can go tomorrow. Or 40 years from now.

Plus the time you spent isn't pain free. You suffering nightmares, hear strange voices, feel the taint creeping through you, all around you...

Plus you don't even die at the end... you turn into one of them....

[marshalleck]

JamesX wrote...

Average of 30 years. Not minimum of 30 years.
You can go tomorrow. Or 40 years from now.
Plus the time you spent isn't pain free. You suffering nightmares, hear strange voices, feel the taint creeping through you, all around you...
Plus you don't even die at the end... you turn into one of them....

Well, only if you don't go intentionally get yourself killed in combat, thus the tradition of going off to the Deep Roads alone for a final stand against darkspawn. Do people not follow any dialogue in games anymore?

[Dherelv]

That's why i keep saying... They should make a sequel where we can hunt Morrigan.

She knows how to fix that lifespan issue right?

Modifié par Dherelv, 24 novembre 2009 - 08:04 .

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Dherelv wrote...

That's why i keep saying... They should make a sequel where we can hunt Morrigan.

She knows how to fix that lifespan issue right?

So does Avernus, and he's a lot easier to find.

[stmeph]

But the problem isn't lifespan. The 30-year clock is when the Warden becomes so affected by the taint (or whatever the Joining causes) that he loses himself. That was implied heavily in the flash game leading up to the game's release, and in-game, there are a few blurbs that kind of beat around the same bush when people talk about when Wardens choose to go die in the Deep Roads, so while I haven't read the novel, that's what I inferred from the dialogue.



Living longer has little to do with it.

[Dherelv]

Cpl_Facehugger wrote...

Dherelv wrote...

That's why i keep saying... They should make a sequel where we can hunt Morrigan.

She knows how to fix that lifespan issue right?

So does Avernus, and he's a lot easier to find.

But he don't have b**bs :innocent: