40 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord_Amitabha]

I believe they say somewhere in the game that the calling hadn't been a problem until the end of the last blight 400 years ago becuase most wardens didn't live long since they were constantly fighting. It is only in the last 4 centuries that it has since there have been no darkspawn on the surface for them to fight

[Bluesmith]

In the real-world, life expectancy for males averaged out to the low 60s, provided first that they survived the first 20 years of life and excepting always those periods of major plague or famine. 30 years for a 20 year old candidate would shave off about 10 years, which is a fair quantity.

[kormesios]

I prefer Vlad Taltos' attitude (from Brust's book): "Sure, my life span is shorter than the elves'.  But in my line of work, old age is not a major cause of death." 

Personally I'd love to live a long time and die in bed (or in someone else's bed), but as an adventurer?  Keepgoing.

BGFU888 wrote...

It is important to keep in mind that low life expectancy in the middle ages was brought down a lot by high infant mortality rates and such. If you could make it to 20, you had a pretty decent shot of living for a while longer provided you weren't living in 1347...

This is a common, but mistaken, belief about medieval lifespans.  They were really quite short by modern standards--50 was old.  And not because of averages and infant mortality, but because you wouldn't have seen a whole lot of people over 50 walking around.  Sure, there were exceptions, but more typical is one of the many immortal lines from Lion in Winter is Henry II: "I'm 50 now. Good God, boy, I'm the oldest man I know! I've got a decade on the pope!" In real life he died, worn out, at 56. 

Real historians (I'm not one) look at parish records of baptisms and deaths to get decent estimates, which is what I'm basing the general claim on.  But if you're skeptical, it's easy enough for anyone to just pick a country and page through their rulers at Wikipedia using the "Succeede by" link at the bottom of the page to see when they typically died. 

Starting at William the Conqueror for England (http://en.wikipedia....m_the_Conqueror) you get:
60, 40, 66,  58, 56, 41, 49, 65, 68 and now I'm bored.  (Bonus trivia: best cause of death, Henry I, "surfeit of lampreys").

Anyway, it clearly took good luck to make it past 60, and this for the upper class, who didn't have the constant famines and deprivation.  I think Edward III made it to 70, but he'd be the only one to get that far.  Certainly his father, son, and next few successors were all much less.

As I said, this is all supported more formally by real research, at least from what I understand.  The OP is about right--you'd be losing a decade, maybe less, depending on your age when you drank.

Modifié par kormesios, 25 novembre 2009 - 04:50 .

[Serogon]

Haasth wrote...

dannythefool wrote...
 The taint makes them change in a way that they don't approve of,

Could you elaborate this a bit? How exactly do they change? Mentally? Physically? I picture something like dementia.

Judging from Avernus' notes on how he knew the taint was starting to claim him (he talked about a beautiful voice calling him to go down underground) I'm guessing they basically get completely mind-controlled by the Darkspawn and go down into the Deep Roads, where they're either butchered or possibly used by the Darkspawn, I don't know. So either way they die, but at least by going willingly before it's too late they get to die with some dignity and kill some Darkspawn while they're at it.

[Elsmallo]

Cammy2709 wrote...

Dragoon001 wrote...

Every heard of Bernal Díaz del Castillo?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernal_D%C3%ADaz_del_Castillo

He was born in Spain in the year 1492 and died at the age of 93 in year 1585. He was a season soldier and later become Conquistador. Participated in the first exploration to the American mainland to be often the sole survivor. Eventually joined Hernán Cortés expedition to Mexico that ended with the conquer and demise of the Aztec Empire. He fought an unknown number of battles but alone in the Aztec Campaign it was over hundred battles. He was injured over 40 times.
After the Aztec campaign he joined several more expeditions exploring southern Central America and finally became governor of Guatemala.

So I disagree,
of cause I must admit he is the most toughest human I every heard and read, and I read alot.

Hah that was actually a pretty interesting read. The guy sounded like a total nutjob mind. Although next playthrough I think I'm gonna call my warden Bernal Diaz del Castillo Cousland.

With regards to the OP, I partially agree with you, but I think it's there to show what wardens face. It's not really meant to be taken into much detail, just something epic that wardens must face. My opinion anyway.

As far as I remember, Bernal Diaz also died penniless, governer of Guatemala or no. He wrote one of two (the other being Cortez's) Spanish accounts of the conquest of Mexico, but only Cortez and the King of Spain saw much of the share of the loot. However, he had to fight Aztecs, not darkspawn, and he didn't have a 30-year curse to deal with. He was for his times (and even for ours) a freak in terms of how long he lived.

I thought the whole Grey Warden lifespan thing was a neat idea badly implemented. You don't get to hear about it until you eventually choose the right Alistair conversation option, which, depending on how you play, might never happen! That's going to be a bit of a shocker when you get to 50 and start feeling a bit grim...

[barrelofmonkeyzz]

Serogon wrote...

Haasth wrote...

dannythefool wrote...
 The taint makes them change in a way that they don't approve of,

Could you elaborate this a bit? How exactly do they change? Mentally? Physically? I picture something like dementia.

Judging from Avernus' notes on how he knew the taint was starting to claim him (he talked about a beautiful voice calling him to go down underground) I'm guessing they basically get completely mind-controlled by the Darkspawn and go down into the Deep Roads, where they're either butchered or possibly used by the Darkspawn, I don't know. So either way they die, but at least by going willingly before it's too late they get to die with some dignity and kill some Darkspawn while they're at it.

An educated guess based on Dragon Age: Journeys and an event that happens with the Dalish playthough:

Any warden not fortunate enough to die before the taint calls them becomes an Emissary...I wonder if Duncan REALLY died at Ostagar or will we have to kill his transformed self sometime in the future. It would be just like Bioware to twist the plot knife like that

[bobsmyuncle]

Haasth wrote...

dannythefool wrote...
 The taint makes them change in a way that they don't approve of,

Could you elaborate this a bit? How exactly do they change? Mentally? Physically? I picture something like dementia.

Well, this is a plot point in The Calling (which is worth the read IMO, still a beginner's effort but much better than TST) so I will give it a bit of spoiler space:






SPOILERS








If Grey Wardens live too long, apparently their immunity to the taint is lost and they start to become... things. Not quite darkspawn, a bit like ghouls (like Ruck or Hespith, perhaps?). Their flesh starts to shrivel, they become angrier (or at least this is how it is described by one that this happens to in The Calling), and they are much more susceptible to the song of the Old Gods. They aren't forced to obey the way darkspawn are but they always hear it and it is hard to ignore. This is why they prefer to die in the Deep Roads when they see the disease spread on their skin and the dreams intensify.







END SPOILERS








I also want to note that according to obnoxiously vague statements by some of the writers, thirty years isn't a hard and fast rule. Doing some quick estimation re: times given in the game and The Calling, Duncan got a little over twenty years in the Wardens. It probably depends on an individual's overall age and health. Loghain is pretty old so I don't see him lasting very long as a Warden, but then he's such a stubborn cuss, who can say? So I wouldn't write it off as "PSSH I got plenty of time to do everything I want!" because you really don't know how long you have besides that you certainly have less than others.

Modifié par bobsmyuncle, 25 novembre 2009 - 07:06 .

[Tennmuerti]

Thanks for the info. Hopefully I'll overcome my laziness to order the Calling (no decent bookshops around). I guess you fellas have a point, the time limit is not so much about the deadline as much it is about not having a choice or chance in the end.

[FlintlockJazz]

kormesios wrote...

Anyway, it clearly took good luck to make it past 60, and this for the upper class, who didn't have the constant famines and deprivation.  I think Edward III made it to 70, but he'd be the only one to get that far.  Certainly his father, son, and next few successors were all much less.

Actually, it was often the case that the upper classes died younger than the lower classes, as they were expected to fight more.  As a nobleman was expected to partake in war at the age of 12, you often had 12 year old boys being married off to 16 year old girls in order to ensure that they had a chance to knock someone up before dying and therefore carrying on the line.  You also of course had the political murders and poisonings and such like, I wouldn't entirely trust the recorded case of death in many cases...

Either way, it's better than what some of my friends were convinced the average lifespan was.  They seriously think that 20 was the age most people died at, not the average due to infant mortality, and have got it in their heads that most of the farms were run by 12 year olds...

[Edwind1]

even in the dreaded dark midle ages, if you count out plagues and wars, reaching 60 wasnt that unsual (much like reaching 80 nowdays - most of EU countries have last time i checked average life expectancy above 80 years). But even besides the point that human wardens dont loose much in comparison to normal span (except those that became wardens in time of Blight's are worse hit) it is enough just the fact that there is in fact a limit, to make it bad enough to make a fuss.

[Valmy]

Yeah I would say to most Grey Warden's the 30 year thing is not a serious issue.



Also average lifespans back then were seriously slanted by enormous child mortality rates. If you lived to see age 30 the chances were excellent you would reach old age...but that was not an easy feat.

[dannythefool]

Haasth wrote...
Could you elaborate this a bit? How exactly do they change? Mentally? Physically? I picture something like dementia.

Physically. According to the book, grey wardens are something in between humans and darkspawn. As they age, their relation to the darkspawn becomes more apparent...

Tennmuerti wrote...
@dannythefool is The Calling any good as a book, aside from the lore point?

No. It's standard videogame book fare. You immediately know which character is which class in the game and which abilities they're using and so on. I was hoping for more.

Do the wardens change in some way beside getting more nightmares and/or becoming unstable? (so that they have to go die fighting)

They don't have to go die fighting. They just prefer dying early to experiencing the transformation in all its dark glory. As far as I understand it, they wouldn't become the completely mindless creatures that regular darkspawn are, but even the darkspawn have brighter individuals among them and I don't know how much difference there would be to them, if at all. Remember that the first darkspawn started out as transformed humans too. 


About the middle age comparisons, please keep in mind that if people didn't live as long back then this was most likely due to the lack of advanced medicine. In the Dragon Age world we have magic that is much more powerful, and there are healing salves and injury kits that immediately fix everything short of death. I think it's safe to say that comparing lifespans to anything in the real world doesn't work.

[andysdead]

Dragoon001 wrote...

Every heard of Bernal Díaz del Castillo?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernal_D%C3%ADaz_del_Castillo

He was born in Spain in the year 1492 and died at the age of 93 in year 1585. He was a season soldier and later become Conquistador. Participated in the first exploration to the American mainland to be often the sole survivor. Eventually joined Hernán Cortés expedition to Mexico that ended with the conquer and demise of the Aztec Empire. He fought an unknown number of battles but alone in the Aztec Campaign it was over hundred battles. He was injured over 40 times.
After the Aztec campaign he joined several more expeditions exploring southern Central America and finally became governor of Guatemala.

So I disagree,
of cause I must admit he is the most toughest human I every heard and read, and I read alot.

that's pretty awesome. that guy must have been a BADass. but he was definitely not the norm.

[Riona45]

Tennmuerti wrote...

I was just thinking about my talk with Alistair about how drinking the blood is basically a death sentence and you only have a maximum of 30 years more to live. Then thinking about it some more I realised: Hey so what? Why is this such a  big deal?
Assuming the human lifespan is generally the same in game as irl.
Assuming that the setting is generally medieval. -   lifespan is shortened
Assuming you wouln't conscript untrained boys. - recruits are 20-30 years old

I personally would not expect for a soldier to live past 40 in a medival setting. So if youre 20 at the time of the joining then the time limit part of it is kid of meaningless.

Even if we assume that it is a time limit of 30 years total (ie you die at around 30+) still not so bad actually, would you really expect to live much longer as some one who is constantly fighting anyway?

Just thinking out loud. Anyone agree?

Yes, although not necessarily for the same reasons.  In my PC's case, she would rather be a Grey Warden and live (as herself...) to about 50--and have a greater sense of freedom--than live longer than that but be "ball and chained" to the mage Circle for all that time.

Modifié par Riona45, 25 novembre 2009 - 08:23 .

[Willowhugger]

The history course I took said the important thing to remember "the average lifespan" is not "most people lived to this" but "lots of people died really young."