126 réponses à ce sujet

[Farbautisonn]

"Good" is a matter of perspective.

My Sheps have different motivations. None of them are entirely "pure and paladin-esque". Basically Shepard is thrust into a situation where he basically has to do something or the whole friggen universe comes to an end.

My shep(s) have different motivations... one is motivated by relationship and the prospect for family living a quiet life, another is a gung ho soldier who does it because its his duty, and a third does it because he can see a spot for himself as a dictator or a caesar esque legacy once he has defeated the reapers. Come on. Being the spectre that saves the galaxy? Political clout up the kazoo. Basically none of my sheps are doing it because its the "right thing". Most dont even like the people we try to save, but we still do what we have to to maximize the odds for survival. Because the choise is between extinction and crap post-war economy galaxy wide rebuilding and general chances of despots trying to take over the universe. There is no "happily ever after". There is "we survived, and now its going to be crap for a very long time".

[The_11thDoctor]

Wait... I thought I was the only one... I laughed at the kid dying... I thought, "Oh looks like Im the only one getting off this island kid and you chose a boat with a hole in it..." LOL! or something of that nature anyway... He was there 2 sec and not enough time to care. kids in games are just a terrible idea.

[Aligalipe]

J.C. Blade wrote...

Aligalipe wrote...

Even an A-hole has a heart, even if he doesn't know it. The kid could traumatize even a renegade Shep because such things could find a place in subconscious. Shepard trying to save the galaxy means he has some good in him.

Shepard could be saving a galaxy for any number of reasons, one but not least of them being that it's his job as both a Spectre and an Alliance soldier. He could also be doing it becuase of an ego - a personal challenge to prove that he is the best and not even a sentient millenia old machine race can put him down; payback to the Reapers for killing him (I'd hold a grudge for that); he has nothing else in his life but fighting, much like a Krogan... You can create a large number of reasons why Shepard would fight the Reapers that don't incorporate "good" in them.

True but there is good in everything just look at the pic, it true imo

[Ellestor]

furryrage59 wrote...

The kid annoyed, felt less than nothing watching him atomised.

Little **** should have come with shepherd. Darwinism.

Spencerism.

I wish people would stop using Darwin's name to aggrandize their misanthropic natural eugenics bull****. ‘Survival of the fittest’ was Herbert Spencer's thing.

[furryrage59]

Aligalipe wrote...

Even an A-hole has a heart, even if he doesn't know it. The kid could traumatize even a renegade Shep because such things could find a place in subconscious. Shepard trying to save the galaxy means he has some good in him.

Not all humans are wired like that, you simply cannot generalise about such a diverse species like that.

[J.C. Blade]

Aligalipe wrote...
True but there is good in everything just look at the pic, it true imo

You're generalising. Humans are not good by default, and they do not become good unless there is something pulling and keeping them along that path.

[Drinking Shepard]

Sorry but to hell with the kid when Vega is a lost/scrapped/cut out romance. I used to feel sorry for the kid tho

[w4rlock]

aang001 wrote...
 He was there 2 sec and not enough time to care. kids in games are just a terrible idea.

true. (In my case) I didn't feel attached to the kid in any way so I just felt like he was any other person. He died? Well somebody has to die so someone could live right? I'm glad it was that kid not anderson or idk... Garrus. 
It's not that we're soulless monsters It just didn't make sence to me... 

Modifié par w4rlock, 18 février 2012 - 08:00 .

[Takio]

To me it was the way, the scene was presented with the amazing Clint Mansell Piece and how Shepard reacted, that sold it for me. I always get the chills when playing through that scene.

[w4rlock]

we should create a new prologue. Maybe they'll use it in the final game.. well they still have like... 2 weeks to make some awesome animations and I'm sure clint mansell wouldn't mind to compose a new intro...

[Telemachus78]

D-roy wrote...

The entire premise of the "You can't help me" kid is stupid and so over-used.

The player has no real interaction with the kid. So why should the player take pity on the kid?
I know I enjoyed seeing him die. It was a great feeling, why?
'Cause **** him. He didn't give me the chance to help him and I just saw him for the first time 5 minutes ago.
He was a complete stranger. No more than an NPC who's just there to make the place feel more crowded.

So why the hell does the narrative focus so much on him? I know the guardian takes the kids form later on, but that can't hardly be all? Right? If the narrative had focused on a likeable and familiar character such as Anderson instead I know I actually would have felt something.

And if the kid is actually just a figment of Shepards imagination then why doesn't the kid look like a young Shepard instead? To familiarise the kid with Shepard himself.

All in all, emotional inflictions on the player needs to be subtle. The kid was shoved down my throat.

I'm hoping the rest of the game won't be like this.
I feel raped.

[supershep]

It was supposed to represent how Shepard can't save everyone.

[Leathlobhair]

I see that kid as a hallucination caused by the effects of the Reapers' remote indoctrination. Remember in ME2's Reaper IFF mission, when you realize the vanished research team was suffering from hallucinations?

[Literoy]

It wasn't a figment of Sheps imagination, it was a reaper in disguise!!!
Jokes aside, I don't get the noise in the forums about the kid, it was mentioned in hundreds of previews as an example of ME3 being harder mission for Shepard as a human. I expect way more signs of him experiencing that kind of loss.

[AkiKishi]

D-roy wrote...

Takio wrote...

To me it was the way, the scene was presented with the amazing Clint Mansell Piece and how Shepard reacted, that sold it for me. I always get the chills when playing through that scene.

Bringing up the piece composed by Mansell only fruther proves the prologue is, indeed, stupid as it doesn't have any legs to stand on by itself.
I dare you to watch this and tell me it isn't friggin' stupid.

This one made me laugh so thanks for the link.

[crazyrabbits]

Colintastic wrote...

The simple fact here is Shep is not you or even who you want him to be. He is a fairly defined character. While you can alter his choices within a certain scope, he is a character like one you would find in a movie or a book. There are some things about him you can never change. For example at no point can you ever surrender your gun to someone who asks you to. All of the responses are, "Screw you, I'm keeping my gun." Even as a renegade, the goal is to save humanity . His harsh decisions can all be attributed to some tactical goal. No tactical goal is satisfied by that kid dying; thus that kid is an indication of failure on Shep's part. You may be a completely cold person, Shep is not.

At the risk of being contrarian, there's little evidence of Shepard actually "developing" as a character other than "because the plot said so". We've barely gotten any of his/her internal reactions or acknowledgement of his/her feelings after most missions. His/her background doesn't have much bearing on the plot (save for LOTSB, where the Akuze incident is brought up if you picked that backstory). Past decisions are inconsistent when it comes to the sake of the narrative (choosing to work with Cerberus, etc.) I don't believe Shepard could be a movie character - s/he is more defined by the player's state of mind while playing, and less by the decisions the character makes in the process of the story.

I'd like to see more games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, where Adam's state of mind (which can be expressed through different "emotion" choices) impacts the narrative and changes situations on the fly. The conversations resemble "verbal chess" more than just "pick one of two options".

Then again, that's a bit much to ask of a game like this. All I know is that I like what I see in ME3, and I hope the whole game lives up to that intro sequence.

Modifié par crazyrabbits, 20 février 2012 - 08:58 .

[Mithrea]

J.C. Blade wrote...

Aligalipe wrote...
True but there is good in everything just look at the pic, it true imo

You're generalising. Humans are not good by default, and they do not become good unless there is something pulling and keeping them along that path.

Haha! Oh sorry, let me just give Jean-Jacques Rousseau a call and tell him some no-mark on a forum's just wrapped THAT one up!


Darn, I can't. He's dead.

[Hyrist]

w4rlock wrote...

D-roy> agreed
I wouldn't say that I feel raped tho but... i was so pis**d!
Uhm maybe not pi**ed but I thought the whole kid thing was irrelevant if i had no chance to save him or friggin let him die in flames.
But on the other hand maybe it was all about making the player feel helpless. You know-you can't do anything about millions of lives dying blahblablah - cheesy.

To both you and D-roy.

The kid has greater signifigance to Shepard in the story. Some things that happen to/around your character, you just cannot control.

Looking only at the demo, you might find this contrived, but the utalization of it is not. They needed a face to represent earth's victims. That's as far as I'll say.

[frostajulie]

I thought it was a wonderful connection to the idea of mankind the reapers are destroying our future. It was also well acted and the music was very emotive.

"...felt like I was being raped..."

awful word choice. If that were true why do you bother living?

[The Anatomy]

D-roy wrote...

frostajulie wrote...

"...felt like I was being raped..."

awful word choice.

At least it's not as bad as the dialogue in the demo.

made me lol.

[CaolIla]

the whole scene with the child feels so forced. It's like someone hitting you with a shovel shouting "You have to be emotionally invested, feel sad, hate the reapers!"

If this mission is a shining example of ME3 storytelling, I don't have to see the rest.

Just in the first scene where Shepard explains to the other humans what they should do and everyone except Shep and Anderson dies (I assume) they don't even look for the others, who cares for other humans? Shepard meets Ashley/Kaidan again and Shep is all like "Hi", but a random child dies he/she met a minute ago??? Well that's something that hits Shepard deep inside and she/he has to show emotions.

[Pani Mauser]

FallTooDovahkiin wrote...

D-roy wrote...
The player has no real interaction with the kid. So why should the player take pity on the kid?

'Cause hes a kid.
Shepard isn't heartless.

I don't know how kid is any different from mid-aged clerk in the office or an old woman in her garden, or young couple on a date. Life is life, no matter the age. But nooo, all media always puts The Kid into spotlight. I'm so sick of it.  If the rest of ME3 is the same cheap cliche with shoving "emotional moments" dowm your throat... Then well, there are other games to play.

Also, it was way too predictable to make any impact at all. The moment the kid appeared on the screen, it was crystal clear that he is doomed. So, by the moment the death happened, there was nothing to feel. I would be really surprised it he didn't die in that scene. It would be fresh and innovative indeed.