53 réponses à ce sujet

[spacehamsterZH]

TheMightyG00sh wrote...
In Mass Effect: Retribution, Captain Anderson resigns from his Citadel position (Advisor/Councillor)and sets out to pursue Cerberus who took captive an Alliance officer.. BioWare's way of streamlining the branched out story...

Ah okay, thanks... yeah, seems like little more than an obvious attempt to fix that so they could easily have him back in the story.

Kioux wrote...

And the 'Dress Blues' can as well be a means to manipulate the jury

You know, I'm not a military man, but I would
seriously, seriously doubt someone like Admiral Hackett would suggest
wearing a uniform in court if you're not actually a soldier. And I know
we had the guy saluting with his left hand and all, but I also seriously
doubt BW would write something like that.

I think Shepard's status in the Alliance was just never really clearly addressed in ME2. Since he was considered KIA and then came back, there's no reason to assume he would've been discharged, but I also don't see how the Alliance would have just let one of their officers go off and work for a terrorist organization. Plot hole? I think so.

[spacehamsterZH]

TheMightyG00sh wrote...
In Mass Effect: Retribution, Captain Anderson resigns from his Citadel position (Advisor/Councillor)and sets out to pursue Cerberus who took captive an Alliance officer.. BioWare's way of streamlining the branched out story...

Ah okay, thanks... yeah, seems like little more than an obvious attempt to fix that so they could easily have him back in the story.

Kioux wrote...

And the 'Dress Blues' can as well be a means to manipulate the jury

You know, I'm not a military man, but I would seriously, seriously doubt someone like Admiral Hackett would suggest wearing a uniform in court if you're not actually a soldier. And I know we had the guy saluting with his left hand and all, but I also seriously doubt BW would write something like that.

I think Shepard's status in the Alliance was just never really clearly addressed in ME2. Since he was considered KIA and then came back, there's no reason to assume he would've been discharged, but I also don't see how the Alliance would have just let one of their officers go off and work for a terrorist organization. Plot hole? I think so.

[tetrisblock4x1]

OH WOW ARE PEOPLE REALLY MAKING A BIG ISSUE OVER CALLING THE CLIPS AMMO?

[Mhorhe83]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

OH WOW ARE PEOPLE REALLY MAKING A BIG ISSUE OVER CALLING THE CLIPS AMMO?

This is the internet dude. People will make a big issue of anything and everything

[Nimrodell]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

TheMightyG00sh wrote...
In Mass Effect: Retribution, Captain Anderson resigns from his Citadel position (Advisor/Councillor)and sets out to pursue Cerberus who took captive an Alliance officer.. BioWare's way of streamlining the branched out story...

Ah okay, thanks... yeah, seems like little more than an obvious attempt to fix that so they could easily have him back in the story.

Kioux wrote...

And the 'Dress Blues' can as well be a means to manipulate the jury

You know, I'm not a military man, but I would
seriously, seriously doubt someone like Admiral Hackett would suggest
wearing a uniform in court if you're not actually a soldier. And I know
we had the guy saluting with his left hand and all, but I also seriously
doubt BW would write something like that.

I think Shepard's status in the Alliance was just never really clearly addressed in ME2. Since he was considered KIA and then came back, there's no reason to assume he would've been discharged, but I also don't see how the Alliance would have just let one of their officers go off and work for a terrorist organization. Plot hole? I think so.

I would not look at that as a plot hole - I think that both Anderson and Hackett who are aware of Shepard being alive again are also aware of the fact what is Shepard doing currently thus keeping her bellow official radar (anyway, that's how Hackett treats Shepard at the beginning of The Arrival). Also, if Shepard chosen to be reinstated to Spectre status, ofc with Terminus system limitations, Spectre work is above Alliance asignments. We can also see from dialogue with Kaidan that Anderson actually kept quiet that Shepard is alive, and also from random news reports we usually hear just assumtions that Shepard is alive and then later in the game we can hear on Omega that there is confirmation on her being alive and different reactions to that fact.
Since Anderson and Hackett are the only ones taking Shepard seriously (apart from TIM), it's logical that they actually kept quiet about that fact in Alliance brass and safeguarded Shepard's back - as we can see from the reprt on Admiral Hacket in Shadow Broker's base. If the officials are trying to sideline the fact on Reapers, and you were one of the admirals that believe Shepard, what would you do? Probably the same thing as Anderson and Hackett did - you would keep quiet about it and let Shepard do her job. We already saw at the beginning what kind of asignment Alliance gave to Shepard and Jacob and others on Normandy confirm that Alliance wasn't playing nice game with Shepard and the truth. By revealing Shepard's existence and reinstating her, Anderson and Hackett would be just two dumbarses responsible for even bigger body count.

[spacehamsterZH]

Nimrodell wrote...
I would not look at that as a plot hole - I think that both Anderson and Hackett who are aware of Shepard being alive again are also aware of the fact what is Shepard doing currently thus keeping her bellow official radar (anyway, that's how Hackett treats Shepard at the beginning of The Arrival).

Yeah, you know, I thought I remembered the VS clearly saying that he/she knew Shepard was working for Cerberus, and that was really my problem - I thought the Alliance knew and just sort of didn't react. But I just watched that scene again, and there's just a reference to "rumors", nothing official. So I guess it really is only Anderson and Hackett that know, at least in ME2, and of course it makes sense for them not to interfere.

[Kioux]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Kioux wrote...
And the 'Dress Blues' can as well be a means to manipulate the jury

You know, I'm not a military man, but I would seriously, seriously doubt someone like Admiral Hackett would suggest wearing a uniform in court if you're not actually a soldier. And I know we had the guy saluting with his left hand and all, but I also seriously doubt BW would write something like that.

I think Shepard's status in the Alliance was just never really clearly addressed in ME2. Since he was considered KIA and then came back, there's no reason to assume he would've been discharged, but I also don't see how the Alliance would have just let one of their officers go off and work for a terrorist organization. Plot hole? I think so.

Well that's one of the things I was referring to - it is a grayzone. What is your actual status if you have been claimed KIA for 2 years and then suddenly return from the dead? But besides that - Shepard was military most of the time and did a lot of missions for the Alliance - while being a Spectre and even while being with Cerberus. So - even if not fully reinstated - this unusual situtation might allow the exception Shepard wearing Dress Blues without being fully reinstated at that point.
I have no idea of that made any sense, lol, but I hope so. But it's only about 2 1/2 more weeks before we'll find out for good.  Anyone else has the feeling that 2 1/2 weeks will feel like 2 1/2 months?

[Kioux]

Mhorhe83 wrote...

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

OH WOW ARE PEOPLE REALLY MAKING A BIG ISSUE OVER CALLING THE CLIPS AMMO?

This is the internet dude. People will make a big issue of anything and everything

And besides Cap never being a good idea - it isn't so much making a big issue over small matter, but it is detail talk and it keeps us busy while waiting for the release. What better way to increase the longing for March 6th (or 9th in my case... ... I mean really - 3 full days? I won't be able to go on any website if I don't wanna see spoilers) than to talk about it, wonder about it, complain about it or the prequels and so on.

[eternalnightmare13]

Mhorhe83 wrote...

Cloudwulfe88 wrote...

I had a problem with one of his lines that was something like (while talking to Shepard), "The **** you've done, you could've been court martialed and discharged..." I'm assuming he's referring to Shepard's actions in ME2 and/or the Arrival DLC. Either way, Shepard was, and correct me if I'm wrong, decidedly not in the Alliance at that time. So either Anderson's line is a hypothetical of sorts, or the writers are forgetting this fact. How could Shepard have been court martialed if he wasn't even in the Alliance in the first place? This is even confirmed later on in the demo when Anderson commands Shepard to do something and Shepard responds with something like, "I don't take orders from you anymore."

It's been a while since I finished ME 2, so I could be wrong - but I'm quite positive that my Paragon Shepard got his Spectre status/Alliance military rank reinstated at some point.

As for the line you refer to ("I don't take orders from you anymore") it simply refers to the fact that when the Reaper invasion started Shep was being investigated, and suspended while pending. Don't forget Anderson's next line is "consider yourself reinstated" (paraphrase).

As for the dialogue, to be honest all ME games so far had cheesy lines, at least once in a while. Remember Kirrahe's *holding the line* speech? That flat monotone and the cliches.. It comes with the territory, I guess

You can get yr Spectre status back, but it's a token gesture if the original council is alive and Anderson is on it.  You can't get your Alliance military rank reinstated at any point in ME2. Being a Spectre has nothing to do with being in the Alliance military.  Shepard was considered KIA by the Alliance and then a rogue agent working for Cerebus in ME2.  Since he was still alive and consorting with ''terrorists'' in ME2 while still not offically discharged from the Alliance military he could easily be courtmartialed for what he did during that time.  It may be a grey area, but the Alliance is like any other beaucratic system with plenty of regulations and legal loopholes.

[Elvis_Mazur]

"Ammo"


Not even infinite facepalm explains what I felt when I heard that.

[Mhorhe83]

 

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

You can get yr Spectre status back, but it's a token gesture if the original council is alive and Anderson is on it.  You can't get your Alliance military rank reinstated at any point in ME2. Being a Spectre has nothing to do with being in the Alliance military.  Shepard was considered KIA by the Alliance and then a rogue agent working for Cerebus in ME2.  Since he was still alive and consorting with ''terrorists'' in ME2 while still not offically discharged from the Alliance military he could easily be courtmartialed for what he did during that time.  It may be a grey area, but the Alliance is like any other beaucratic system with plenty of regulations and legal loopholes.

I'm well aware that the status of Spectre has nothing to do with the alliance military rank  but as stated, my memory of it all was foggy. Thanks for clearing it up.

[xScarecrowX]

I was confused about Anderson saying, (After pulling Shep away from the ledge and s/he saying "I owe you one.") "More than one." Now, I'm new to the ME series (Just finished my first playthrough of ME2 in January (I have a PS3 so I'll never get to play the first one and import)), but did I miss something? Was he talking about the meeting they had on the Citadel when the Council members were being A-holes?

Modifié par xScarecrowX, 19 février 2012 - 05:29 .

[111987]

I just thought it was weird that they called thermal clips ammo, especially when they went to the trouble of adding the overheating sound to all the guns when they run out of ammo.

[Yuoaman]

"Ammo" is simply a colloquialism, guns for centuries have used ammo and it's only natural that they'd use the same term when referring to thermal clips.

[spacehamsterZH]

Okay, seriously, about the ammo thing... I personally don't think this is that big of a deal and I flat-out didn't even notice it, but I'm also a bit, um, surprised that people are actually not getting it. I'm not much of a codex reader and even I understand the issue.

Mass Effect 1 had no ammo game mechanic whatsoever. Guns would overheat if fired continuously, but they never ran out of ammo. This was then changed for ME2 with the thermal clips, and a lot of people hated it. It was obviously done to implement a game mechanic that was familiar to shooter fans in order to appeal to that demographic, and the fact that it was supposed to kinda-sorta fit the lore because it wasn't actually ammo, but the "heat sink" from ME1 had been turned into these replaceable "thermal clips" seemed like an excuse, and one that didn't make much sense (It seems more like weapon technology has somehow regressed in the two years Shepard was dead, and also, if all heat sinks are the same, how come I can run out of ammo for one gun, but not the others?). Now I don't personally believe there's some shadowy conspiracy at Bioware/EA that wants to turn the Mass Effect series into Call of Duty so that they can twirl their mustaches and laugh at the po', po' RPG fans, but some people do believe that, and you can kinda see how this would sort of fit that theory.

Fast forward two years, and whoever's to blame for that line being in there (and you have to assume it went through more than one person) apparently doesn't even remember anymore that there isn't supposed to be such a thing as "ammo" in the Mass Effect universe and intentionally or not, they're just calling a spade a spade now.

So that's why it's dumb, and if you're like me, you'll agree it's not a huge deal, but it's also not somehow illogical to find fault with this line. It's an error, and it's about something that a lot of people are kinda sensitive about.

Modifié par spacehamsterZH, 19 février 2012 - 06:34 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

D-roy wrote...

If anything was cut from the demo or isn't up to date, then it's not a representation of the final product and thus not a demo.

Do you have any bloody idea how many demos actually make a point of including a note that says the demo isn't a representation of the final product? Your logic is pretty faulty, there.

Not to say I expect the dialogue to be any different in the final product, I'm just saying... logic fail. That is all.

[Nathan Redgrave]

D-roy wrote...

There is no note in the Mass Efffect 3 demo.

Point... missing it. Ah, well.

In any case, I doubt a demo released so close to launch would have any massively important dialogue changes... mind you, the Dragon Age 2 demo DID have a bit of dialogue that differed from the final product, so make of that what you will.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 19 février 2012 - 06:55 .

[Mhg122287]

Timmibal wrote...

Anderson refers to thermal clips as Ammo...

I twitched. Hard. Especially since there's been the 'It's not ammo!' argument being repeated ad infinitum since ME2.

http://tvtropes.org/...lARabbitASmeerp

[Nathan Redgrave]

Well, for players who aren't inclined to read codex entries explaining the mechanics of sci-fi weaponry, you can't exactly have Anderson say, "Grab some heat-sinks so your gun can cool off and fire more slugs from its inexplicably plentiful ammo block," now, can you?

From a technical standpoint, thermal clips AREN'T the actual slugs being fired, but from a gameplay perspective, they're your ammo source. So they are ammo, and yet they're not. You could argue in circles for centuries on that point, because both answers are quite correct.

[spacehamsterZH]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Well, for players who aren't inclined to read codex entries explaining the mechanics of sci-fi weaponry, you can't exactly have Anderson say, "Grab some heat-sinks so your gun can cool off and fire more slugs from its inexplicably plentiful ammo block," now, can you?

Uuh, it's referred to as a thermal clip in the ME2 tutorial, and I don't remember anyone's head exploding.