29 réponses à ce sujet

[khevan]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or intended to work this way, and I haven't seen anything on the forums about it, so I figured I'd make a topic about it.

In both the single player and multi player modes of the demo, when I've cloaked, enemies still see me.  I've had mooks see me and melee me if I get right next to them to melee them, and the Atlas just ignores my cloak most of the time.  I don't see anything on the power evolution screen that improves "chance of being hidden" or whatever, so I don't know if enemies have some kind of awareness stat that we don't know about, or if it's a bug.

It doesn't happen all the time, so I don't know if it's a bug or not.  It's not repeatable on demand, so I can't give specific circumstances, other than being melee'd if I'm too close, and that's not even all the time...

So, what's the deal?  is this a bug, or is this intended?  If it's intended, it's a huge nerf to the Infiltrator, in my opinion.

[Mand0l1n]

This has happened to me in the demo - I assumed it was a bug.

[LinksOcarina]

I had that happen to me a few times, but it was mostly them shooting in the general direction of me where I cloaked. So I think they were blindly shooting towards where the Infiltrator cloaks and hoping to hit me before I get away.

If that is not the issue though, it might be a bug then. Although I never ran into that problem, especially against Atlas.

[khevan]

Maybe AI behavior has improved, where even if the enemies don't see you, they react to where you were instead of forgetting you exist (like they did in ME2). But it doesn't explain the times when I've cloaked, ran up to an enemy, had them react and melee me as if I weren't cloaked. So, it's not just blind-fire hoping to hit a cloaked opponent. Enemies have reacted to me as if I weren't cloaked, so...

[Alamar2078]

I've had some guys see me when cloaked but it's usually when they're already shooting at me. I haven't noticed a single instance of "safely cloaking" and then later being detected "improperly".

Then again I've only played through as Infiltrator one time ...

[sonsofanarchy10]

next time when you cloak.... jump to side cover and see if they shoot in your direction.

[khevan]

sonsofanarchy10 wrote...

next time when you cloak.... jump to side cover and see if they shoot in your direction.

I'll keep an eye out for that.  I could be seeing things, like improved AI behavior, and interpreting them wrong, but the real impression I get is that cloak sometimes doesn't work.  I'll pay closer attention, see if I can reproduce this in a way that's clearly enemies reacting to me while cloaked.  I want to say they do, though, because I remember a couple of times, cloaking (near an enemy, but not in melee range) to do a surprise melee from stealth (rogue backstab FTW!) but had them melee me instead. 

I dunno, maybe the threshhold for enemy melee's is farther away than I think it should be, and they're starting the melee act as I'm cloaking...I'll hafta pay more attention the next time I play through the demo.

[Mand0l1n]

I'm pretty sure I was under fire when it appeared cloak didn't work for me so it could well be a deliberate result of improved ai and not a bug.

[Colintastic]

The only time I've been shot is when I cloak while someone is already shooting at me, or if I cloaked and then ran out into oncoming fire which was directed at squad mates.

[bleetman]

Enemies seem a whole lot smarter about infiltrator cloaks now, and will keep firing in the general direction of where you were when you activated it for a short while rather than immediately forgetting about you. I've yet to see them just flat out ignore your cloak if they hadn't seen you already, though. It's less of the immortality button it used to be, but is still useful for lining up sniper shots/boosting attack damage/repositioning without being riddled with bullets. I much prefer it this way, really.

They'll also see you at point blank range. Which isn't particularly unfair, since you're not completely invisible. Still, unless you run right into their faces you shouldn't have too much trouble with using cloak to get into melee range if you approach them from the side. I've been doing it all day, and it's hilarious.

Modifié par bleetman, 16 février 2012 - 05:45 .

[sonsofanarchy10]

khevan wrote...

sonsofanarchy10 wrote...

next time when you cloak.... jump to side cover and see if they shoot in your direction.

I'll keep an eye out for that.  I could be seeing things, like improved AI behavior, and interpreting them wrong, but the real impression I get is that cloak sometimes doesn't work.  I'll pay closer attention, see if I can reproduce this in a way that's clearly enemies reacting to me while cloaked.  I want to say they do, though, because I remember a couple of times, cloaking (near an enemy, but not in melee range) to do a surprise melee from stealth (rogue backstab FTW!) but had them melee me instead. 

I dunno, maybe the threshhold for enemy melee's is farther away than I think it should be, and they're starting the melee act as I'm cloaking...I'll hafta pay more attention the next time I play through the demo.

It is something to think about.  In my next playthrough I am going to only cloak while in cover; then try a melee attack to see if they notice me. 

[TeamLexana]

bleetman wrote...

Enemies seem a whole lot smarter about infiltrator cloaks now, and will keep firing in the general direction of where you were when you activated it for a short while rather than immediately forgetting about you. I've yet to see them just flat out ignore your cloak if they hadn't seen you already, though. It's less of the immortality button it used to be, but is still useful for lining up sniper shots/boosting attack damage/repositioning without being riddled with bullets. I much prefer it this way, really.

They'll also see you at point blank range. Which isn't particularly unfair, since you're not completely invisible. Still, unless you run right into their faces you shouldn't have too much trouble with using cloak to get into melee range if you approach them from the side. I've been doing it all day, and it's hilarious.

That may be true but it'd be nice to have confirmation either way by a dev. Personally I hope it's not because that's the infiltrator's "thing". Why nerf it? If it offends your geekabilities, don't use it, lol. Not a jab aimed at u btw, just saying in general.

[Mr.House]

You mean they made cloak less OP and made the AI smarter then a bunch of logs? People have an issue with this?

[sp0ck 06]

Working fine for me, playing as a Shotgun CQC Infil (so much fun). I've noticed certain enemies (Guardians particuarly) seem to "hear" you more than others while cloaked

[TeamLexana]

Mr.House wrote...

You mean they made cloak less OP and made the AI smarter then a bunch of logs? People have an issue with this?

Not as much as an issue yet, as just curious if it's working as it should or if it's a bug because if it's a bug, it should be reported, no?

[RGFrog]

I've cloaked many times around corners where the ai couldn't see me. moved in cloak only to have the turrets, the cerb mooks, essentially everything track and shoot at me.

This happens more than not. Happens when I'm in cover being shot at. Happens when i'm not being shot at. Happens when I'm around corners behind walls.

Granted, it doesn't happen EVERY time, but it's more usual that the ai ignores the cloak. And, yes, i've taken care to exclude weapons fire already in my direction from analysis.

I've been playing in insanity mode, so I can't say if it's true for anything below. But I've also not read anything that states things work worse on insanity vs. say normal...

[Mr.House]

TeamLexana wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

You mean they made cloak less OP and made the AI smarter then a bunch of logs? People have an issue with this?

Not as much as an issue yet, as just curious if it's working as it should or if it's a bug because if it's a bug, it should be reported, no?

It's not a bug, I cloaked many times and the only time I got shot at was when I did it right in front of a Cerberus grunt and he kept shooting at me till I got to cover and away from where I was when I went poof.

[TeamLexana]

Mr.House wrote...

TeamLexana wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

You mean they made cloak less OP and made the AI smarter then a bunch of logs? People have an issue with this?

Not as much as an issue yet, as just curious if it's working as it should or if it's a bug because if it's a bug, it should be reported, no?

It's not a bug, I cloaked many times and the only time I got shot at was when I did it right in front of a Cerberus grunt and he kept shooting at me till I got to cover and away from where I was when I went poof.

Glad for you but......

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RGFrog wrote...

I've cloaked many times around corners where the ai couldn't see me. moved in cloak only to have the turrets, the cerb mooks, essentially everything track and shoot at me.

This happens more than not. Happens when I'm in cover being shot at. Happens when i'm not being shot at. Happens when I'm around corners behind walls.

Granted, it doesn't happen EVERY time, but it's more usual that the ai ignores the cloak. And, yes, i've taken care to exclude weapons fire already in my direction from analysis.

I've been playing in insanity mode, so I can't say if it's true for anything below. But I've also not read anything that states things work worse on insanity vs. say normal...

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So... yeah, there still seems to be some confusion over if it is in fact working properly or no.

[khevan]

I just played a few games of MP, and I've got some further impressions.

Turrets and Atlases still seem to see through cloak, but the rest appears to be improved enemy AI. I cloaked and moved and enemies didn't track me, at least in those two games, and enemies did see me if I got right up in their face, but if I approached from the side or the back, they didn't see me, at least they didn't react before I melee'd them.

If cloak is bugged, maybe I didn't run into it this time around, except for one time with a turret, and the Atlas is iffy...I was in a room, cloaked and moved to a different cover. It still fired that rocket, and maybe it was aiming at where I was, but I got caught in the AOE of the blast, or maybe it saw me and shot me directly. Don't know for sure with the Atlas.

But it'd be nice if a dev commented on it.

Either way, I gotta say that I'm liking what I'm seeing so far. AI is much improved, and makes it more difficult, but more fun. I just gotta get used to how the AI reacts to different things, but it's fun.

I hafta change one opinion I stated in my OP. Turrets and Atlas' seeing you while cloaked is a nerf to cloak, but if the rest is enemy AI reacting to where you were, I think that's a great thing. Keeps cloak a powerful ability, but without being OP like it was in ME2.

[Poison_Berrie]

Seems like mechanical enemies are supposed to see you when you are cloaked.
Still nice to see that enemies take the cloak into consideration.

[khevan]

Turrets I can understand having them see you through cloak. They're a stationary target, and cloak would make them a joke, instead of the machine of death and pain they currently are. So, if turrets see you thru cloak, it technically is a nerf as I said earlier, but one I can understand and at least halfway approve of. Atlases, not so sure, but they're slow moving, so it's not too bad...it just sucks getting hit by that rocket when you think you're safe!

But with the couple games I played earlier, and paying a bit more attention to things, it appears to be overall a good system, just different. Takes some getting used to, since cloak isn't the OMGSAVEME! power it was in ME2, but it works.

[jasonxxsatanna]

TeamLexana wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Enemies seem a whole lot smarter about infiltrator cloaks now, and will keep firing in the general direction of where you were when you activated it for a short while rather than immediately forgetting about you. I've yet to see them just flat out ignore your cloak if they hadn't seen you already, though. It's less of the immortality button it used to be, but is still useful for lining up sniper shots/boosting attack damage/repositioning without being riddled with bullets. I much prefer it this way, really.

They'll also see you at point blank range. Which isn't particularly unfair, since you're not completely invisible. Still, unless you run right into their faces you shouldn't have too much trouble with using cloak to get into melee range if you approach them from the side. I've been doing it all day, and it's hilarious.

That may be true but it'd be nice to have confirmation either way by a dev. Personally I hope it's not because that's the infiltrator's "thing". Why nerf it? If it offends your geekabilities, don't use it, lol. Not a jab aimed at u btw, just saying in general.

I think its quoted by the devs in the KNOWN FEATURES thread
If you cloak they will shoot in a general direction you were in and they will keep patroling and throw grenades at you to if they think you are near at least on Insanity they do:ph34r:

[Riceygringo]

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

TeamLexana wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Enemies seem a whole lot smarter about infiltrator cloaks now, and will keep firing in the general direction of where you were when you activated it for a short while rather than immediately forgetting about you. I've yet to see them just flat out ignore your cloak if they hadn't seen you already, though. It's less of the immortality button it used to be, but is still useful for lining up sniper shots/boosting attack damage/repositioning without being riddled with bullets. I much prefer it this way, really.

They'll also see you at point blank range. Which isn't particularly unfair, since you're not completely invisible. Still, unless you run right into their faces you shouldn't have too much trouble with using cloak to get into melee range if you approach them from the side. I've been doing it all day, and it's hilarious.

That may be true but it'd be nice to have confirmation either way by a dev. Personally I hope it's not because that's the infiltrator's "thing". Why nerf it? If it offends your geekabilities, don't use it, lol. Not a jab aimed at u btw, just saying in general.

I think its quoted by the devs in the KNOWN FEATURES thread
If you cloak they will shoot in a general direction you were in and they will keep patroling and throw grenades at you to if they think you are near at least on Insanity they do:ph34r:

How do you explain that you cloak, and try to flank a guardian. For the entire duration of the cloak the guardian fires and keeps its shield turned towards you perfectly. As well as you are cloaked with the ability to fire off one ability upgrade, and you try to kill a turret,  the turret turns perfectly and mows you down as soon as you fire the spell.

If what you say is true, then the AI is completely unrealistic, the only time cloak works is if you have teammates and the enemy focus on your team instead of you. I've noticced it consistently in multiplayer, enemies follow you to no end when you are cloaked.

Now, say, do you think you can follow a cloaked phantom with 100% accuracy? I don't think so... so why do we have to have a nerfed cloak that has no effect?

Mass Effect 3 has rediculous enemies, come on Bioware. Enemies with a big shield that is impossible to bring down except if we spam fire at it and waste ammo. Enemies that deploy turrets that is almost impossible to bring down...A mech with an instant kill move...

[bleetman]

Riceygringo wrote...

Mass Effect 3 has rediculous enemies, come on Bioware. Enemies with a big shield that is impossible to bring down except if we spam fire at it and waste ammo.

Ah yes, "flanking". We have dismissed that claim.

[jasonxxsatanna]

Riceygringo wrote...

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

TeamLexana wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Enemies seem a whole lot smarter about infiltrator cloaks now, and will keep firing in the general direction of where you were when you activated it for a short while rather than immediately forgetting about you. I've yet to see them just flat out ignore your cloak if they hadn't seen you already, though. It's less of the immortality button it used to be, but is still useful for lining up sniper shots/boosting attack damage/repositioning without being riddled with bullets. I much prefer it this way, really.

They'll also see you at point blank range. Which isn't particularly unfair, since you're not completely invisible. Still, unless you run right into their faces you shouldn't have too much trouble with using cloak to get into melee range if you approach them from the side. I've been doing it all day, and it's hilarious.

That may be true but it'd be nice to have confirmation either way by a dev. Personally I hope it's not because that's the infiltrator's "thing". Why nerf it? If it offends your geekabilities, don't use it, lol. Not a jab aimed at u btw, just saying in general.

I think its quoted by the devs in the KNOWN FEATURES thread
If you cloak they will shoot in a general direction you were in and they will keep patroling and throw grenades at you to if they think you are near at least on Insanity they do:ph34r:

How do you explain that you cloak, and try to flank a guardian. For the entire duration of the cloak the guardian fires and keeps its shield turned towards you perfectly. As well as you are cloaked with the ability to fire off one ability upgrade, and you try to kill a turret,  the turret turns perfectly and mows you down as soon as you fire the spell.

If what you say is true, then the AI is completely unrealistic, the only time cloak works is if you have teammates and the enemy focus on your team instead of you. I've noticced it consistently in multiplayer, enemies follow you to no end when you are cloaked.

Now, say, do you think you can follow a cloaked phantom with 100% accuracy? I don't think so... so why do we have to have a nerfed cloak that has no effect?

Mass Effect 3 has rediculous enemies, come on Bioware. Enemies with a big shield that is impossible to bring down except if we spam fire at it and waste ammo. Enemies that deploy turrets that is almost impossible to bring down...A mech with an instant kill move...

Maybe they based it on the same mechanics as the ME2 version of when geth hunters cloak you can see the image of something there, but if your not paying attention they sneak up on you . . . I didnt have a problem I did notice that they threw grenades in my direction but I still sneaked up on my victims not just run up on them . . . but it does play very different from its ME2 counterpart