337 réponses à ce sujet

[DaGhostDS]

egervari wrote...
 Just who is your target audience exactly?

We are called gamers, we play a lot of different genre:

I like 1st person shooter, rpg, tactical shooter, action game, mmorpg, combat simulator, puzzle and others.

The only thing i dislike are turn based rpg and fighting game.. cant stand them

Modifié par DaGhostDS, 17 février 2012 - 04:16 .

[egervari]

macdadams2 wrote...

Bioware is not your company to carry around in your pocket. And for someone who cares so much about story and character you are awfully hung up on the shooting elements.

Look, their marketing was terribly confusing and seemed to be built and designed to freak out long time fans, but have a little faith. The devs deserve it. They can't be blamed for out of touch marketers and Dietz.

It's not just about shooter-elements - it's about general dumbing down of all aspects of the game, apparantly to service a "wider audience of gamers". I honestly don't understand this, but I guess the masses must be stupid, because I never thought any of the expectations they used to place on us in the Bioware console generation were all that demanding to start with. Sure, I can understand if they gave this argument for Baldur's Gate 2 - that's a beast of a game - but not for something like Kotor...

I hope - and I really do mean this - that the game itself is quite good, and EA just did a horrible marketing job. I will GLADLY take back everything I said here today if that happens to be the case.

Modifié par egervari, 17 février 2012 - 04:16 .

[egervari]

DaGhostDS wrote...

egervari wrote...
 Just who is your target audience exactly?

We are called gamers, we play a lot of different genre:

I like 1st person shooter, rpg, tactical shooter, 3rd person, mmorpg, combat simulator, puzzle and others.

You are even more in the minority than the existing older fanbase I think.,...

As I explained earlier, not all gamers are equal. There is some overlap to be sure, but FPS and RPG is actually not the best overlapping genre if you were to poll the numbers. You'd find a lot more overlap with adventure games or even rts games.

Modifié par egervari, 17 février 2012 - 04:17 .

[LenaMarie]

Im fairly sure the Battlefield 3/Gears of War type is the Target Audience. They put in a Action mode so the single player appeals to them and gave them a multiplayer they'd feel comfortable with.

A good co op mode would have been playing through campaign style missions with friends, not this Call of Duty Squad based shooter stuff.

Still so long as the single player lives up to the previous games, i dont care if Im not the target audience.

Mark my words though, the next Mass Effect game is going to be a hardcore Call of Duty/Gears hybrid set in the Mass Effect Universe. The Writing is on the wall.

Modifié par LenaMarie, 17 février 2012 - 04:19 .

[DJBare]

It's really nice to see some folk actually having an intelligent debate with egervari, I expected the OP to be hung, drawn and quartered for having an "opinion".

[Travie]

macdadams2 wrote...


I'm wholly convinced that some of you have your mind made up. The game could come out, and prove to have truly perfected the story telling (the part that I agree matters) and you will find SOMETHING wrong with it. You all are spoiling the experience for yourselves with negativity before you even truly know.

Of course I'm sure you think you already know.

Well from what we have already seen both animations and writing (at times) looks mediocre.

We can hope that isn't the case with the main game, but the liklihood of these things changing by that time are slim since the game just went gold.

I keep using the word 'hope' a lot, so only speaking for myself, I haven't given up yet 

[RoboticWater]

egervari wrote...

DaGhostDS wrote...

egervari wrote...
 Just who is your target audience exactly?

We are called gamers, we play a lot of different genre:

I like 1st person shooter, rpg, tactical shooter, 3rd person, mmorpg, combat simulator, puzzle and others.

You are even more in the minority than the existing older fanbase I think.,...

As I explained earlier, not all gamers are equal. There is some overlap to be sure, but FPS and RPG is actually not the best overlapping genre if you were to poll the numbers.

CoD actually proves otherwise. Like it or not CoD displays excellent RPG elements in it's multiplayer with fully customizable weapons and loadouts. Sure, it has a short, terrible, and linear story but you can't say RPGs and FPSs don't go together.

Modifié par BlahDog, 17 février 2012 - 04:23 .

[TheDarkShape]

So who is your target market? The people that grew up with your rich,
deep RPGs, or the xbox fps gamers who don't give a rat's ass about
story, character development and character progression? Who is it
Bioware?

First, a question: why do fans always have to feel so 'special'?  That fan whose first BioWare game was Mass Effect is just as important as you are, Anonymous Baldur's Gate fan (and I say that as someone whose first BW game certainly pre-dated ME).

But to the question, think about this from a logical, business-oriented standpoint.  Do you target fans of a genre that usually sells 1-2m copies with a AAA title, or do you focus on fans that push genre titles closer to 10m copies sold?

[spirosz]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the target audience is gamers.

[RoboticWater]

DJBare wrote...

It's really nice to see some folk actually having an intelligent debate with egervari, I expected the OP to be hung, drawn and quartered for having an "opinion".

And it's wrong to think that the OP's opinion is incorrect?

[squee365]

Everyone.

Duh.

[egervari]

LenaMarie wrote...

Im fairly sure the Battlefield 3/Gears of War type is the Target Audience. They put in a Action mode so the single player appeals to them and gave them a multiplayer they'd feel comfortable with.

A good co op mode would have been playing through campaign style missions with friends, not this Call of Duty Squad based shooter stuff.

Still so long as the single player lives up to the previous games, i dont care if Im not the target audience.

Mark my words though, the next Mass Effect game is going to be a hardcore Call of Duty/Gears hybrid set in the Mass Effect Universe. The Writing is on the wall.

All of this I can totally believe too.

[izmirtheastarach]

egervari wrote...

DaGhostDS wrote...

egervari wrote...
 Just who is your target audience exactly?

We are called gamers, we play a lot of different genre:

I like 1st person shooter, rpg, tactical shooter, 3rd person, mmorpg, combat simulator, puzzle and others.

You are even more in the minority than the existing older fanbase I think.,...

As I explained earlier, not all gamers are equal. There is some overlap to be sure, but FPS and RPG is actually not the best overlapping genre if you were to poll the numbers. You'd find a lot more overlap with adventure games or even rts games.

People who enjoy multiple genres are the majority, not the other way around.

[Il Divo]

TheDarkShape wrote...

First, a question: why do fans always have to feel so 'special'?  That fan whose first BioWare game was Mass Effect is just as important as you are, Anonymous Baldur's Gate fan (and I say that as someone whose first BW game certainly pre-dated ME).

Indeed. I tend to notice that as a problem with alot of these threads. It's not enough to point out how current Bioware games are disappointing/less enjoyable and explain why. That would be understandable. But some have to go the extra mile and assert that they are something special, the elite, and how Bioware games no longer meet their intelligence quota. Imagine that. Someone being "better" than the masses. Because they play a video game.

Modifié par Il Divo, 17 février 2012 - 04:25 .

[egervari]

BlahDog wrote...

egervari wrote...

DaGhostDS wrote...

egervari wrote...
 Just who is your target audience exactly?

We are called gamers, we play a lot of different genre:

I like 1st person shooter, rpg, tactical shooter, 3rd person, mmorpg, combat simulator, puzzle and others.

You are even more in the minority than the existing older fanbase I think.,...

As I explained earlier, not all gamers are equal. There is some overlap to be sure, but FPS and RPG is actually not the best overlapping genre if you were to poll the numbers.

CoD actually proves otherwise. Like it or not CoD displays excellent RPG elements in it's multiplayer with fully customizable weapons and loadouts. Sure, it has a short, terrible, and linear story but you can't say RPGs and FPSs don't go together.

Meh. I own COD4: MW, and it didn't appeal to me. I got for like 14.99 many years ago, and beyond a little MP and playing the main campaign, I no longer play it. I also haven't bought any of the newer games - that was it for me. The RPG mechanics in the MP are not the same thing. The game is very different. I have many friends and family members that hate RPGs and love COD, and vice-versa. The target audience is not the same, even if those COD gamers actually like the RPG mechanics in the MP system. It takes more than a leveling up system like that to also like RPG games.

Modifié par egervari, 17 février 2012 - 04:26 .

[Travie]

BlahDog wrote...

egervari wrote...

DaGhostDS wrote...

egervari wrote...
 Just who is your target audience exactly?

We are called gamers, we play a lot of different genre:

I like 1st person shooter, rpg, tactical shooter, 3rd person, mmorpg, combat simulator, puzzle and others.

You are even more in the minority than the existing older fanbase I think.,...

As I explained earlier, not all gamers are equal. There is some overlap to be sure, but FPS and RPG is actually not the best overlapping genre if you were to poll the numbers.

CoD actually proves otherwise. Like it or not CoD displays excellent RPG elements in it's multiplayer. Sure, it has a short, terrible, and linear story but you can't say RPGs and FPSs don't go together.

Calling incremental changes 'RPG elements' was always a bit of a stretch to begin with. Its like calling shooting things an FPS element.

[spirosz]

By the way, I take offense to that Xbox FPS hate, I grew up playing a wide variety of games, so just because I prefer RPG, I'm not allowed to like games like COD or BF3? That's great that you played their earlier games, I started at KOTOR, does that make me any less of a fan than you? It's called different generations and what influences us. I actually downloaded BG I and II recently because of how much I loved each of Bioware releases (KOTOR, Jade Empire, ME, etc). I guess that point is mute because I enjoy having a competitive aspect to my gaming as well (CS 1.6/source, then on consoles - Gears Of War, etc)

Bah... each their own.

[RoboticWater]

LenaMarie wrote...

Im fairly sure the Battlefield 3/Gears of War type is the Target Audience. They put in a Action mode so the single player appeals to them and gave them a multiplayer they'd feel comfortable with.

They also added a story mode.

A good co op mode would have been playing through campaign style missions with friends, not this Call of Duty Squad based shooter stuff.

It's actually better to have a separate co-op rather than a campaign one. Just think, which would you rather do watch a horribly long cutscene and have th party leader have all the decisions or just shoot things with your friends you want to talk to instead of some game character?

Still so long as the single player lives up to the previous games, i dont care if Im not the target audience.

Mark my words though, the next Mass Effect game is going to be a hardcore Call of Duty/Gears hybrid set in the Mass Effect Universe. The Writing is on the wall.

Sure...

[nitefyre410]

TheDarkShape wrote...

So who is your target market? The people that grew up with your rich,
deep RPGs, or the xbox fps gamers who don't give a rat's ass about
story, character development and character progression? Who is it
Bioware?

First, a question: why do fans always have to feel so 'special'?  That fan whose first BioWare game was Mass Effect is just as important as you are, Anonymous Baldur's Gate fan (and I say that as someone whose first BW game certainly pre-dated ME).

But to the question, think about this from a logical, business-oriented standpoint.  Do you target fans of a genre that usually sells 1-2m copies with a AAA title, or do you focus on fans that push genre titles closer to 10m copies sold?

  

^this  . 


And more importantly...

spiros9110 wrote...

By the way, I take offense to that Xbox FPS hate, I grew up playing a wide variety of games, so just because I prefer RPG, I'm not allowed to like games like COD or BF3? That's great that you played their earlier games, I started at KOTOR, does that make me any less of a fan than you? It's called different generations and what influences us. I actually downloaded BG I and II recently because of how much I loved each of Bioware releases (KOTOR, Jade Empire, ME, etc). I guess that point is mute because I enjoy having a competitive aspect to my gaming as well (CS 1.6/source, then on consoles - Gears Of War, etc) 

Bah... each their own.

   


^ THIS... so much this... 

I enjoy and wide variety of games  from RPGS to Fighting games to Puzzle games to FPS to Action Adventure. that does not make any less of a fan than anyones  else.  

Modifié par nitefyre410, 17 février 2012 - 04:34 .

[egervari]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

egervari wrote...

DaGhostDS wrote...

egervari wrote...
 Just who is your target audience exactly?

We are called gamers, we play a lot of different genre:

I like 1st person shooter, rpg, tactical shooter, 3rd person, mmorpg, combat simulator, puzzle and others.

You are even more in the minority than the existing older fanbase I think.,...

As I explained earlier, not all gamers are equal. There is some overlap to be sure, but FPS and RPG is actually not the best overlapping genre if you were to poll the numbers. You'd find a lot more overlap with adventure games or even rts games.

People who enjoy multiple genres are the majority, not the other way around.

I enjoy multiple genres too, and I have liked some FPS's believe it or not. But if I were to rank my favourite genres, FPS would not be among them. From all the friends and family members I have, I see the level of like/dislike between genres all the time. Unless my world/community is just so different than the rest of the world, I think I am right to say that the overlap between FPS and RPG isn't that good.

[bluewolv1970]

I do not think anyone can deny that Bioware is going away from what was there bread and butter. I just hope ME3 retains some of the magic Bioware games used to have but going forward there really does not seem to be a lot to look forward to. Once ME3 launches Bioware will no longer have an officially announced RPG in the pipeline for the first time in probably over a decade. All they will have is an MMO and Command and Conquer. Maybe their new strategy will work or maybe it will fail like it did with companies like The Gap...who knows

Modifié par bluewolv1970, 17 février 2012 - 04:31 .

[RoboticWater]

Travie wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

CoD actually proves otherwise. Like it or not CoD displays excellent RPG elements in it's multiplayer. Sure, it has a short, terrible, and linear story but you can't say RPGs and FPSs don't go together.

Calling incremental changes 'RPG elements' was always a bit of a stretch to begin with. Its like calling shooting things an FPS element.

What would you call them? Because I have half a fanbase saying the loss of weapon upgrades set back ME2 in the RPG department.

Attachments are incremental stat changes that allow for customization and a form of leveling up. Not to mention the use of XP and a monetary system. That just screams RPG.

Modifié par BlahDog, 17 février 2012 - 04:30 .

[egervari]

nitefyre410 wrote...

TheDarkShape wrote...

So who is your target market? The people that grew up with your rich,
deep RPGs, or the xbox fps gamers who don't give a rat's ass about
story, character development and character progression? Who is it
Bioware?

First, a question: why do fans always have to feel so 'special'?  That fan whose first BioWare game was Mass Effect is just as important as you are, Anonymous Baldur's Gate fan (and I say that as someone whose first BW game certainly pre-dated ME).

But to the question, think about this from a logical, business-oriented standpoint.  Do you target fans of a genre that usually sells 1-2m copies with a AAA title, or do you focus on fans that push genre titles closer to 10m copies sold?

  

^this  . 

I understand this in theory. But again, look at Dragon Age 2. This game was expected to out-perform the original DA: Origins by many millions - using the same logic as you stated above. They even made design decisions that they KNEW would off-put existing fans, in the hope of capturing that ever more expansive market. Now ask yourself, how well did that work out for them? Not very well. They would have been FAR better off sticking to a similar formula with general improvements all-across the board. DA2 was a trash game, and their sales suffered because of it. 

You could argue that ME3 will be different, and maybe so, but this risk they are playing doesn't always pan out like they think it will.

[egervari]

bluewolv1970 wrote...

I do not think anyone can deny that Bioware is going away from what was there bread and butter. I just hope ME3 retains some of the magic Bioware games used to have but going forward there really does not seem to be a lot to look forward to. Once ME3 launches Bioware will no longer have an officially announced RPG in the pipeline for the first time in probably over a decade. All they will have is an MMO and Command and Conquer. Maybe their new strategy will work or maybe it will fail like it did with companies like The Gap...who knows

I generally think the same thing too. ME3 is the last straw for me honestly.

[LenaMarie]

BlahDog wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Im fairly sure the Battlefield 3/Gears of War type is the Target Audience. They put in a Action mode so the single player appeals to them and gave them a multiplayer they'd feel comfortable with.

They also added a story mode.

A good co op mode would have been playing through campaign style missions with friends, not this Call of Duty Squad based shooter stuff.

It's actually better to have a separate co-op rather than a campaign one. Just think, which would you rather do watch a horribly long cutscene and have th party leader have all the decisions or just shoot things with your friends you want to talk to instead of some game character?

Still so long as the single player lives up to the previous games, i dont care if Im not the target audience.

Mark my words though, the next Mass Effect game is going to be a hardcore Call of Duty/Gears hybrid set in the Mass Effect Universe. The Writing is on the wall.

Sure...

Story mode.. and? Its a RPG , it should have a story mode. Action mode is more glaring, as action mode makes the game play like Call of Duty.

In your opinion having a seperate co op is good, but the reality is most RPG players dont want a squad based shooter mode, if they MP they want to go through missions with their friends, not mindlessly frag COD style.

Maybe you dont like watching long cutscenes because your the FPS kid Bioware wants but they made a multiplayer game around long cutscenes and watching others make decisions, whats that game called? Oh right, Star Wars: The Old Republic. It works there apparently and its a MMO.

You seem like the target audience, so good for you, you love the boring MP mode, have fun but older fans who are RPG players have other opinions. I just hope the single player gives a fulfilling conclusion to Shepards story, then Im going to be hesitant about bioware's future products, its blatantly obvious who the target audience is. I dont feel entitled they made products for me, but that doesnt mean I have to buy their games if they go in a direction i dont like.