337 réponses à ce sujet

[Chuvvy]

Bioware doesn't know which audience it wants. First, they say the RPG genre is dying, then Skyrim comes out, and suddenly RPGs are alive and well. With DA2, they said they wanted Call of Duty's audience (which clearly worked out well) Then with ME3 it seems they want the Gears audience, or are, at the very least, trying to capitalize on being a cheap knock off, as you can tell by the, at best laughable curb stops they've put in.

They need to make up their mind and decide which audience they want, because doing everything "alright", isn't a business model. Why would I play a bioware game when I can get better TPS combat from gears, a better story from a Rockstar Game, better dialog from a Naughty Dog game, and a better RPG from a CDPR or Obsidian game? Find something your good at and do it, and if you're going to do something new, ****ing commit to it and don't go half ass. I'm sure bioware could put out a good action adventure game if they wanted to, but not when they're in this no mans land of sort of a TPS, sort of an RPG, sort of an Action Adventure, sort of Dating Sim, they'll just ****** people off.

Hell, I was just having conversation with a friend, and he is the definition of biowares "target audience" he enjoys TPSs, and FPSs. He also enjoyed DAO, didn't buy DA2, and won't be buying ME3. Because he said there's no point, it's not doing anything different.

Modifié par Slidell505, 17 février 2012 - 05:14 .

[LenaMarie]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

No, I respect your opinion, I just think anyone who likes mindless fragging CoD style must but one of your insanely twitchy FPS kids that us 'old people' cant keep up with.

What does "old" mean in this context? How old are you? Am I not allowed to enjoy some mindless fragging now and then?

The old as in played Baldurs Gate 1 when it was relased, and dont have the twitch reflexes to keep up with the kids who's first RPG was probaly World of Warcraft. Fortunately the sp has balancing for cRPGers who dont have that kind of reflexes anymore, but the multiplayer mode in ME3 and in other FPS games are balanced around the younglings twitch skills, which is part of the folly because from what I've seen most people who play RPGers are the older crowd.

[nitefyre410]

Slidell505 wrote...

Bioware doesn't know which audience it wants. First, they say the RPG genre is dying, then Skyrim comes out, and suddenly RPGs are alive and well. With DA2, they said they wanted Call of Duty's audience (which clearly worked out well) Then with ME3 it seems they want the Gears audience, or are, at the very least, trying to capitalize on being a cheap knock off, as you can tell by the, at best laughable curb stops they've put in.

They need to make up their mind and decide which audience they want, because doing everything "alright", isn't a business model. Why would I play a bioware game when I can get better TPS combat from gears, a better story from a Rockstar Game, better dialog from a Naughty Dog game, and a better RPG from a CDPR or Obsidian game? Find something your good at and do it, and if you're going to do something new, ****ing commit to it and don't go half ass. I'm sure bioware could put out a good action adventure game if they wanted to, but not when they're in this no mans land of sort of a TPS, sort of an RPG, sort of an Action Adventure, sort of Dating Sim, they'll just ****** people off.

Hell, I was just having conversation with a friend, and he is the definition of biowares "target audience" he enjoys TPSs, and FPSs. He also enjoyed DAO, didn't buy DA2, and won't be buying ME3. Because he said there's no point, it's not doing anything different.

 

Like I said... Lack of Idenitity. 

[LenaMarie]

Slidell505 wrote...

Bioware doesn't know which audience it wants. First, they say the RPG genre is dying, then Skyrim comes out, and suddenly RPGs are alive and well. With DA2, they said they wanted Call of Duty's audience (which clearly worked out well) Then with ME3 it seems they want the Gears audience, or are, at the very least, trying to capitalize on being a cheap knock off, as you can tell by the, at best laughable curb stops they've put in.

They need to make up their mind and decide which audience they want, because doing everything "alright", isn't a business model. Why would I play a bioware game when I can get better TPS combat from gears, a better story from a Rockstar Game, better dialog from a Naughty Dog game, and a better RPG from a CDPR or Obsidian game? Find something your good at and do it, and if you're going to do something new, ****ing commit to it and don't go half ass. I'm sure bioware could put out a good action adventure game if they wanted to, but not when they're in this no mans land of sort of a TPS, sort of an RPG, sort of an Action Adventure, sort of Dating Sim, they'll just ****** people off.

Hell, I was just having conversation with a friend, and he is the definition of biowares "target audience" he enjoys TPSs, and FPSs. He also enjoyed DAO, didn't buy DA2, and won't be buying ME3. Because he said there's no point, it's not doing anything different.

You forgot they put in the "Roadie" run too lol but yeah I agree with what your saying. The friends I have that are their target audience arent too interested in ME3 either because it still has too much cutscenes, dialogue and running around, not to mention multiplayer is like everything else they play, so they ask whats the point?

[saracen16]

I agree with the OP. By choosing a marketing campaign geared towards FPS fans, I feel as if the RPG element got toned down to the point that the story has fell to the level of games like CoD and BF3 (i.e. really really superficial). Anyways, I'll wait and see otherwise.

[izmirtheastarach]

LenaMarie wrote...

The old as in played Baldurs Gate 1 when it was relased, and dont have the twitch reflexes to keep up with the kids who's first RPG was probaly World of Warcraft. Fortunately the sp has balancing for cRPGers who dont have that kind of reflexes anymore, but the multiplayer mode in ME3 and in other FPS games are balanced around the younglings twitch skills, which is part of the folly because from what I've seen most people who play RPGers are the older crowd.

Still not sure what this older crowd is though. I played every Bioware game from Baldur's Gate on. I've played every Call of Duty game except the most recent one. I've been playing games for 20+ years. Why does being older mean you can't play the same games as young people? That may be your particular eperience, but my friends and collegues of a similar age play just as many modern games as I do.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 17 février 2012 - 05:21 .

[RVallant]

Slidell505 wrote...

Bioware doesn't know which audience it wants. First, they say the RPG genre is dying, then Skyrim comes out, and suddenly RPGs are alive and well. With DA2, they said they wanted Call of Duty's audience (which clearly worked out well) Then with ME3 it seems they want the Gears audience, or are, at the very least, trying to capitalize on being a cheap knock off, as you can tell by the, at best laughable curb stops they've put in.

They need to make up their mind and decide which audience they want, because doing everything "alright", isn't a business model. Why would I play a bioware game when I can get better TPS combat from gears, a better story from a Rockstar Game, better dialog from a Naughty Dog game, and a better RPG from a CDPR or Obsidian game? Find something your good at and do it, and if you're going to do something new, ****ing commit to it and don't go half ass. I'm sure bioware could put out a good action adventure game if they wanted to, but not when they're in this no mans land of sort of a TPS, sort of an RPG, sort of an Action Adventure, sort of Dating Sim, they'll just ****** people off.

Hell, I was just having conversation with a friend, and he is the definition of biowares "target audience" he enjoys TPSs, and FPSs. He also enjoyed DAO, didn't buy DA2, and won't be buying ME3. Because he said there's no point, it's not doing anything different.

You left out EA's "Single player is dead, Multiplayer is the future." reasoning which, I should hope given the xmas sales last year blew that out of the water.

[R3DKL0UD]

[/quote]  


The problem with DA as whole is they don't know what they want... the Franchise as a whole really lacks and indentity. 

[/quote]

This. It's a different game with different problems. The first had a great story, great characters, some of the worst art and graphics ever, and combat that was a bit sluggish (call me crazy but I like a little hand eye coordination action in my games). While i thought it was good, i think its often romanticized. Ithink they over fixed these things and lost its greatest strength of all in DA 2. But now we are talking about a little multiplayer add on in the universe of Mass Effect.

[OmegaBlue0231]

Slidell505 wrote...

Bioware doesn't know which audience it wants. First, they say the RPG genre is dying, then Skyrim comes out, and suddenly RPGs are alive and well. With DA2, they said they wanted Call of Duty's audience (which clearly worked out well) Then with ME3 it seems they want the Gears audience, or are, at the very least, trying to capitalize on being a cheap knock off, as you can tell by the, at best laughable curb stops they've put in.

They need to make up their mind and decide which audience they want, because doing everything "alright", isn't a business model. Why would I play a bioware game when I can get better TPS combat from gears, a better story from a Rockstar Game, better dialog from a Naughty Dog game, and a better RPG from a CDPR or Obsidian game? Find something your good at and do it, and if you're going to do something new, ****ing commit to it and don't go half ass. I'm sure bioware could put out a good action adventure game if they wanted to, but not when they're in this no mans land of sort of a TPS, sort of an RPG, sort of an Action Adventure, sort of Dating Sim, they'll just ****** people off.

Hell, I was just having conversation with a friend, and he is the definition of biowares "target audience" he enjoys TPSs, and FPSs. He also enjoyed DAO, didn't buy DA2, and won't be buying ME3. Because he said there's no point, it's not doing anything different.

From day one the Mass Effect series has been an Action/RPG. That's what it was marketed as and that's why people bought it. Complaining that's changing and leaving behind RPG games when it hasn't changed that much from the first game is a horrible argument; one based on nothing more than they've made mistakes with other games, and people are trying to force them to change into what they used to be because that's what they want.

Also the dating sim thing makes you lose all credibility because RPG for years have had romance in them. And most of those RPG were made by..................Bioware!

[jcolt]

idk how much crap i'll get for sayin this but i think fallout is a perfect mix of shooter and rpg even if you don't like the vats system cut that out and its still great.

[LenaMarie]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

The old as in played Baldurs Gate 1 when it was relased, and dont have the twitch reflexes to keep up with the kids who's first RPG was probaly World of Warcraft. Fortunately the sp has balancing for cRPGers who dont have that kind of reflexes anymore, but the multiplayer mode in ME3 and in other FPS games are balanced around the younglings twitch skills, which is part of the folly because from what I've seen most people who play RPGers are the older crowd.

Still not sure what this older crowd is though. I played every Bioware game from Baldur's Gate on. I've played every Call of Duty game except the most recent one. I've been playing games for 20+ years. Why does being older mean you can't play the same games as young people? That may be your particular eperience, but my friends and collegues of a similar age play just as many modern games as I do.

Your group is in the minority my friend. I know many, many older gamers in real life and online, primarily RPGers and none of us can keep with twitch wise with the FPS kids and the balancing they require. I've even been known to play some CoD too but only single player which like ME single player I find rather easy but online is a whole different story.

jcolt wrote...

idk how much crap i'll get for sayin this
but i think fallout is a perfect mix of shooter and rpg even if you
don't like the vats system cut that out and its still great.

I can definatly agree with this, I've had alot of fun with Fallout games and they dont seem to stray too far left or right and it works nicely. (I've found them easy too).

Modifié par LenaMarie, 17 février 2012 - 05:28 .

[izmirtheastarach]

jcolt wrote...

idk how much crap i'll get for sayin this but i think fallout is a perfect mix of shooter and rpg even if you don't like the vats system cut that out and its still great.

Needed more story.

[Romantiq]

jcolt wrote...

idk how much crap i'll get for sayin this but i think fallout is a perfect mix of shooter and rpg even if you don't like the vats system cut that out and its still great.

I highly doubt you'll get any legitimate crap for stating the fact. That is if you meant FNV. F3 lacked rpg.

Modifié par Romantiq, 17 février 2012 - 05:28 .

[OmegaBlue0231]

jcolt wrote...

idk how much crap i'll get for sayin this but i think fallout is a perfect mix of shooter and rpg even if you don't like the vats system cut that out and its still great.

I wouldn't say perfect, but it's still very good.

[izmirtheastarach]

LenaMarie wrote...

Your group is in the minority my friend. I know many, many older gamers in real life and online, primarily RPGers and none of us can keep with twitch wise with the FPS kids and the balancing they require. I've even been known to play some CoD too but only single player which like ME single player I find rather easy but online is a whole different story.

Still falling into that trap where you assume that your own experience is the majority, which I guess I did earlier. The truth is, we don't really know what the majoirty is, because we usually only see what's going on in our own social circle.

I guess I can't really argue with that last part, though. But when was any average gamer ever able to keep up with the kind of crazy online players who spend every waking moment playing online games. Not so much a question of age as it is how you want to spend your time. I'm enojying ME3 multiplayer now, but when the game hits I won't be touching it again for months, I suspect.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 17 février 2012 - 05:31 .

[Draconis6666]

People in this thread really cannot seem to grasp the fact that Mass Effect was NEVER intended to be a full RPG, it was ALWAYS from the very beginning intended to be exactly what it is now. It was never intended to be Baldurs Gate anything, or even to be the same kind of game as Dragon Age. If you want a full RPG you go play an RPG you don't play a game that was from the very beginning of the franchise stated to be a third person shooter with RPG elements then complain that its not a full RPG. Thats like going to a baseball game and complaining that no one tackles anyone because you like football.

[egervari]

LenaMarie wrote...

BlahDog wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Story mode.. and? Its a RPG , it should have a story mode. Action mode is more glaring, as action mode makes the game play like Call of Duty.

No, it allows ME 3 to play out more like a movie. It doesn't just throw out all the cutscenes and make it all combat. It just takes the already existing choices and makes them flow even better. Personally, I won't use the action mode because I want to make decisions and see what happens but maybe after my 7th playthrouh I want to just watch a cinematic game without interruption. I bet that if this mode was called "movie mode" people wouldn't be complaining nearly as much.

In your opinion having a seperate co op is good, but the reality is most RPG players dont want a squad based shooter mode, if they MP they want to go through missions with their friends, not mindlessly frag COD style.

First I'd like to see that statistic and second ME 3 co-op isn't "mindless CoD style", it's essentially a more open ended SP mission. 

Maybe you dont like watching long cutscenes because your the FPS kid Bioware wants but they made a multiplayer game around long cutscenes and watching others make decisions, whats that game called? Oh right, Star Wars: The Old Republic. It works there apparently and its a MMO.

I love watching long cutscenes but not when I can have a good time with my friends. I don't know about the specifics but from what I know TOR doesn't have long cutscenes just a mildly short one with one decision attached to the end of it.

You seem like the target audience, so good for you, you love the boring MP mode, have fun but older fans who are RPG players have other opinions. I just hope the single player gives a fulfilling conclusion to Shepards story, then Im going to be hesitant about bioware's future products, its blatantly obvious who the target audience is. I dont feel entitled they made products for me, but that doesnt mean I have to buy their games if they go in a direction i dont like.

Thanks for calling me a child for having a differeing opinion, it's greatly appreciated. I too want a great conclusion but neither do I think that having marketing going towards a larger  audience is so bad nor do I think features that embrace that larger audience are inherrently bad and detract from the game. While these new features may hurt the SP I havent seen enough evidence to make assumptions.

No, I respect your opinion, I just think anyone who likes mindless fragging CoD style must but one of your insanely twitchy FPS kids that us 'old people' cant keep up with. I dont begrudge you or anyone at all for enjoying multiplayer and the the concessions made to the SP to let FPS players enjoy the game more. This goes beyond marketing though as the actual gameplay is geared less for RPGers and more for FPS players. I wouldnt mind at all if Shepards story catered to the RPG player then future games tapered off into Call of Duty in space, its just when it starts off designed for RP then goes off in another direction before the arc is finished that is my main issue.

^ This

[LenaMarie]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Your group is in the minority my friend. I know many, many older gamers in real life and online, primarily RPGers and none of us can keep with twitch wise with the FPS kids and the balancing they require. I've even been known to play some CoD too but only single player which like ME single player I find rather easy but online is a whole different story.

I guess I can't really argue with that last part. But when was any average gamer ever able to keep up with the kind of crazy online players who spend every waking moment playing online games. Not so much a question of age as it is how you want to spend your time. I'm enojying ME3 multiplayer now, but when the game hits I won't be touching it again for months, I suspect.

Im with you, though I know of 3 friends getting ME3, so maybe we'll have better luck with a full team and thats even if we can be bothered. The sp game is where its at for my friends and I, which makes me wonder even more why they didnt stick with a mp mode the guarenteed purchases (read rpg players) would more likely be inclined to play.

[AtreiyaN7]

I read posts like this, and I'm starting to immediately go into who-gives-a-frak mode now. You don't like BF3, you don't like shooters, you think everyone who plays shooters is a moron, you think you belong to a special class of gamers that's not being catered to in marketing and/or terms of actual gameplay (because of shooters)...blah blah blah blah. I can summarize every thread like this one as follows:

<insert lengthy ranting about shooters, CoD and dumbing down here in either a marketing or gameplay-related context>

I am so tired of reading this...all...the...time. Maybe there should be a special forum devoted to people who want to kvetch about shooters being responsible for the decline and fall of civilization and gaming as we know it. Why I can just see it now:

We're not going back to the moon!
IT'S THE FAULT OF SHOOTER FANS.

We're not going to Mars!
IT'S THE FAULT OF SHOOTER FANS!

The economy sucks!
THAT'S THE FAULT OF SHOOTER FANS TOO!!!!!

*sarcasm*

[nitefyre410]

R3DKL0UD wrote...





This. It's a different game with different problems. The first had a great story, great characters, some of the worst art and graphics ever, and combat that was a bit sluggish (call me crazy but I like a little hand eye coordination action in my games). While i thought it was good, i think its often romanticized. Ithink they over fixed these things and lost its greatest strength of all in DA 2. But now we are talking about a little multiplayer add on in the universe of Mass Effect.

 

I agree though the story was ..okay... nothing really stood out to me.   Characters where... the same great but none really stood out.  The Art Direction is a crime against all Art Direction..nothing stood out.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 17 février 2012 - 05:34 .

[egervari]

Draconis6666 wrote...

People in this thread really cannot seem to grasp the fact that Mass Effect was NEVER intended to be a full RPG, it was ALWAYS from the very beginning intended to be exactly what it is now. It was never intended to be Baldurs Gate anything, or even to be the same kind of game as Dragon Age. If you want a full RPG you go play an RPG you don't play a game that was from the very beginning of the franchise stated to be a third person shooter with RPG elements then complain that its not a full RPG. Thats like going to a baseball game and complaining that no one tackles anyone because you like football.

There's a big difference between an RPG with shooter elements and a shooter with RPG elements. One is an basically an RPG, while the other is a FPS.

I mean, would you seriously say that a 1st/3rd-person RPG with swords is more an action game akin to Zelda or God of War just because it uses swords instead of guns? Not really - it's still an RPG. Nobody says this about Skyrim, or Fallout for example. Those are RPGs, regardless if they use swords or guns.

Mass Effect has basically switched genres. And fans of bioware and the original Mass Effect have really every reason to ask, "WTF?" If they want to make games of different genres - go ahead - just make some different IP or an off-shoot game.

I have a hard time playing the demo. I am bored with the gameplay, and the dialog is too simply and tripe. If the final game is anything like this, it won't be for me.

Modifié par egervari, 17 février 2012 - 05:40 .

[RSX Titan]

Draconis6666 wrote...

People in this thread really cannot seem to grasp the fact that Mass Effect was NEVER intended to be a full RPG, it was ALWAYS from the very beginning intended to be exactly what it is now. It was never intended to be Baldurs Gate anything, or even to be the same kind of game as Dragon Age. If you want a full RPG you go play an RPG you don't play a game that was from the very beginning of the franchise stated to be a third person shooter with RPG elements then complain that its not a full RPG. Thats like going to a baseball game and complaining that no one tackles anyone because you like football.

Great post. I love oldschool RPGS myself but this is getting ridiculous. ME is not Baldur's Gate in Space and fans need to get over it.  I also take issue with the idea that gamers who like RPGs wouldn't possibly want a game like BF3. That is just absurd. I would bet a substantial amount of money that most of the people that own DA,DA2, ME1, or ME2 also own one of the following Halo, COD, or BF3. 

[jcolt]

Romantiq wrote...

jcolt wrote...

idk how much crap i'll get for sayin this but i think fallout is a perfect mix of shooter and rpg even if you don't like the vats system cut that out and its still great.

I highly doubt you'll get any legitimate crap for stating the fact. That is if you meant FNV. F3 lacked rpg.

well ya never know on the bsn personally i loved both but i'll agree fnv was far superior i'll also agree its not perfect and mass effect story is better but i enjoy the sandbox aspect and freedom more i guess.

[RSX Titan]

egervari wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

People in this thread really cannot seem to grasp the fact that Mass Effect was NEVER intended to be a full RPG, it was ALWAYS from the very beginning intended to be exactly what it is now. It was never intended to be Baldurs Gate anything, or even to be the same kind of game as Dragon Age. If you want a full RPG you go play an RPG you don't play a game that was from the very beginning of the franchise stated to be a third person shooter with RPG elements then complain that its not a full RPG. Thats like going to a baseball game and complaining that no one tackles anyone because you like football.

There's a big difference between an RPG with shooter elements and a shooter with RPG elements. One is an basically an RPG, while the other is a FPS.

I mean, would you seriously say that a 1st/3rd-person RPG with swords is more an action game akin to Zelda or God of War just because it uses swords instead of guns? Not really - it's still an RPG. Nobody says this about Skyrim, or Fallout for example. Those are RPGs, regardless if they use swords or guns.

Mass Effect has basically switched genres. I have a hard time playing the demo. I am bored. It's not for me.

ME has always been a shooter first, RPG second. They just screwed up the combat so bad in ME1 that it seemed the otherway around. 

[OmegaBlue0231]

egervari wrote...
Mass Effect has basically switched genres.

Not it hasn't. It still has a great story (source: Leak), still has great character interaction (the demo was very bland compared to some things), and despite what haters and trolls will tell you your choices in previous games and this one do in face matter (again I know the spoilers from the leak which seems to be mostly the same as what I've seen in the demo). It's still the same Mass Effect just with more polished shooter elements and with a way to let more than one person play at a time.

Modifié par OmegaBlue0231, 17 février 2012 - 05:43 .