337 réponses à ce sujet

[Darkchipper07]

egervari wrote...

Rapamaha1 wrote...

ehm...you are in the wrong forums...EA does the marketing

If I produced a game and somebody else marketed it as crappily as EA has, I would be livid and do something about. Their silence speaks volumes.

If you produced a game and the company that markets it is the same company that owns you, I would hope you would keep your mouth shut unless you like unemployment.

[Metalunatic]

Darkchipper07 wrote...

If you produced a game and the company that markets it is the same company that owns you, I would hope you would keep your mouth shut unless you like unemployment.

It's not like anyone puts a boot up your ass if you give a little criticism over the marketing done to your game which you have been working on for years.

[kalle90]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Mass effect was never intended to be a deep full blown RPG from the beginning so this argument is pointless. You use not needing powers as proof that ME 3 is somehow worse than ME 1 when in ME 1 you litterally didnt have to do anything except run to the left and keep shooting because you could easily never overheat your gun with a little work and if you moved to the side almost nothing ever hit you. Regardless of your actual intention (probably just trolling) all this comes across as to me is another "I want every game to be the exact same and never innovate just make Baldurs Gate 45 times with a different story" post.

Yes, because Mass Effect 3 seems so innovative. I'm so glad Mass Effect 2 gave us this heavily emphasized "cover system" and ammo clips that are a completely original groundbreaking feature. Now ME3 will give us a "roll" ability - WOW! Oh and did you see that power melee? Hold B and you do more powerful melee attack!!! Amazing.

Mass Effect 1's hybrid was something I've never seen in any other game. Sure it had it's flaws, but turning the game into Gears of War 0.5 is just weak.

Lets not even talk about story aspects because they aren't "innovated" one bit. We still have the age old dialogue wheel pff. Story is actually the thing Bioware is trying to catch those COD/GOW/FPS fans with because they wouldn't bother for gameplay alone, because this same gameplay has been done a lot better in other games. I gladly have ME1 and Gears 1 side by side because they both have their differences and advantages, while ME2 and apparently ME3 have just inferior version of Gears gameplay.

[Tazzmission]

Metalunatic wrote...

What is up with the people on this thread? You're flaming the OP and kissing Bioware's ass and for what? You don't get paid to do it.

first off we arent flaming and im no butt kisser. its one thing to discuss certain things like an adult but seeing as alot of people who post on the bsn act childish what do you expect?

can you honestly sit there and tell me that yea some ** fans** say some of the most idiotic things?

heres an example....


crying and moaning because games favor the console over the pc


or or another one


omg waaa the graphics are so bad im gona cancel my pre order and seriously who buys games just for graphics?

seriously as much as we posters and the devs themselfs  try telling these nutjobs what they want to know there never satisfied. they really do believe theres a conspiracey and honestly its not only sad but unhealthy

and im sorry but if people can do anything better please enlighten me id love to see how these whiney so called fans take the time to balance what the real fans want and also cater to a new crowd and you know what if they ( whiners) cant come up with a answer than they shouldnt complain at all.

Modifié par Tazzmission, 17 février 2012 - 09:40 .

[vader da slayer]

The target audience is anyone not already set on buying the game, as all marketing is directed at. Why would they spend money trying to convence someone who is already going to buy the game to buy the game?

[v0rt3x22]

I don't really understand why they want to get new fans onto the series in the third and final game (of the story arc) - anyway. And in the process - try to please everyone, and probably end up disappointing everyone - esp. the hardcore fans.

I remember early in development - there was an interview where BioWare was talking about rewarding long-time fans of the series.

A couple of weeks ago - this discussion was re-sparked and the answer was less than disappointing (can't find the thread now - but basically that long standing fans will get a great experience, or some sort of marketing answer like that).

[egervari]

Darkchipper07 wrote...

egervari wrote...

Rapamaha1 wrote...

ehm...you are in the wrong forums...EA does the marketing

If I produced a game and somebody else marketed it as crappily as EA has, I would be livid and do something about. Their silence speaks volumes.

If you produced a game and the company that markets it is the same company that owns you, I would hope you would keep your mouth shut unless you like unemployment.

I would never have let them own me in the first place then. I do it my way. If I'm producing something, it's mine. If it's my vision, and my hardwork, I say what happens. Profits matter, but not that much to be a slave to someone else.

Modifié par egervari, 17 février 2012 - 09:43 .

[hitorihanzo]

@ OP: I would have quoted your post, but I'm using my IPhone. I still own KOTOR. Matter of fact, i just dusted off the old XBox and played a dark sider. Getting my Star Wars fix since i dont own SWTOR. I didn't play BG- not my thing. I tried NWN- didn't really like it. I played Jade Empire, and thought that it was ok. My point being, I have known BioWare for YEARS, and for YOU, a random nobody, to define to ANYONE as a long-term fan or not is extremely arrogant. The kind of arrogance that implies that you are not a very confident, or mature person because you can't FATHOM how anyone who is a long term fan of BioWare could possibly like ME2 or 3 if you don't.

P.S. Mass Effect 3 was NOT an RPG. It was a third person shooter/RPG hybrid.  It was never meant to be an RPG. It's been 8 years. How have you it figured that out yet?

@GuardianAngel: What do I care about what other people think? I like ME3 as it is so far. So, what was your point of posting those polls?

Modifié par hitorihanzo, 17 février 2012 - 09:49 .

[Metalunatic]

Tazzmission wrote...

Metalunatic wrote...

What is up with the people on this thread? You're flaming the OP and kissing Bioware's ass and for what? You don't get paid to do it.

first off we arent flaming and im no butt kisser. its one thing to discuss certain things like an adult but seeing as alot of people who post on the bsn act childish what do you expect?

can you honestly sit there and tell me that yea some ** fans** say some of the most idiotic things?

heres an example....


crying and moaning because games favor the console over the pc


or or another one


omg waaa the graphics are so bad im gona cancel my pre order and seriously who buys games just for graphics?

seriously as much as we posters and the devs themselfs  try telling these nutjobs what they want to know there never satisfied. they really do believe theres a conspiracey and honestly its not only sad but unhealthy

and im sorry but if people can do anything better please enlighten me id love to see how these whiney so called fans take the time to balance what the real fans want and also cater to a new crowd and you know what if they ( whiners) cant come up with a answer than they shouldnt complain at all.

I have no idea what you're getting at or what your point is.

[SomeKindaEnigma]

Metalunatic wrote...

What is up with the people on this thread? You're flaming the OP and kissing Bioware's ass and for what? You don't get paid to do it.

Back on topic. I think the marketing is terrible. Cheesy lines, damn omni-blade (which is ridicilous and not wanted IMO) flashing in every shot of Shepard. Even the pose he is in the cover is the same as in Battlefield 3 or at least very much alike.

The demo however left me wanting more even if the animations and graphics at some points weren't up to my expectations.

Conclusion; I think the marketing is trying to get shooter fans interested when the series has focused more on story, characters and RPG elements since ME1. It's kind of weird to me, but I guess you can blame EA for that.

Lol how is stating I disagree with the OP equivalent to me kissing Bioware's ass?  Explain the logic behind that.

I wasn't around the forums when the buildup for ME2 was going on, so idk really how the marketing was (pretty spoilerish from what I understand).  While I may not entirely like the marketing effort for ME3 thus far (I want my hunger for story-based/emotional stuff satisfied as well), I understand why it is being done.  Virtually no spoilers (which should supposedly please the existing fanbase), appeals to newcomers.  This doesn't bother me.  It's nothing personal.

[egervari]

hitorihanzo wrote...

@ OP: I would have quoted your post, but I'm using my IPhone. I still own KOTOR. Matter of fact, i just dusted off the old XBox and played a dark sider. Getting my Star Wars fix since i dont own SWTOR. I didn't play BG- not my thing. I tried NWN- didn't really like it. I played Jade Empire, and thought that it was ok. My point being, I have known BioWare for YEARS, and for YOU, a random nobody, to define to ANYONE as a long-term fan or not is extremely arrogant. The kind of arrogance that implies that you are not a very confident, or mature person because you can't FATHOM how anyone who is a long term fan of BioWare could possibly like ME2 or 3 if you don't.

Excuse me? Bioware's first game was in 1996. Their first big release was in 1998. You did not play 7 of their games/expansions between Baldur's Gate and Knights of the Old Republic. You've been a fan from 2003 to 2012 - so that's 8-9 years. The company has been in existence for the last 16 - almost double.

So how am I in error for simply not considering that long-term, when it is basically mid-term? That's not arrogant - that is just using simple math.

Modifié par egervari, 17 février 2012 - 09:49 .

[Tazzmission]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I don't really understand why they want to get new fans onto the series in the third and final game (of the story arc) - anyway. And in the process - try to please everyone, and probably end up disappointing everyone - esp. the hardcore fans.
 

you do realize thats how the gaming industry works right?


heck i was so vocal on alot of things about me3 and i got banned for it


i played the mp demo today and i love it and im not even the type of guy who plays online at all.

i consider myself to be a big fan of this franchise and honestly over the years with games ( not just mass effect) things do in fact change and sometimes it works sometimes it dosent.


and the other thing is people need to realize that because if they dont fans of any game will resort to omg why does this have newer gameplay or omg for w/e reason

[TeffexPope]

egervari wrote...

Even further, the dialog in the demo reminds me of the kind of crap that gets put into movies like Transformers. Why has it degenerated into such garbage?

Why am I seeing this so much? There were about 4 lines in the Salarian mission alone that were humerous which was one of the thigns bw wanted more of in their script. "Lets see them try to stop a Krogan landing!" followed by "We have an unauthorized...LANDING." and we're not impressed? Is it the cliche ish line in the prologue "I'm a soldier, not a politician"? Do not understand.

[Tazzmission]

FemaleMageFan wrote...

DO you realize that by bioware doing this they making more people interested in rpgs and giving the genre more attention?? oh wait let me guess bioware makes games specifically for you and only you. OP with all do respect if i could get more exposure in producing a product i would definitely go for it. It's good for the genre and good for business too. Wait...what i'm i doing? Trying to speak sense on the BSN? impossibru.....let me join the hoard. I do not like femshep's finger nails!!!!!

common sense does not compute for that platform ( op)!

[Metalunatic]

@SomeKindaEnigma

I didn't imply in any part of my post that you are one of the people I'm referring to.

[hitorihanzo]

@Egervari: You weren't using math. Please. You were trying to make yourself seem special since you have been a BioWare fan since Shattered Steel (oops!). So the **** what? I would suggest that you should take a Psychology course about why people feel the need to label themselves (I'll give you a hint: it comes from a lack of confidence), but I'd be wasting my time. Just like I'm wasting it with you now. So, have a good night.

[AlexXIV]

Well I would say they use their crappy marketing to cater to people who don't mind crappy marketing.

But seriously, ME is not DA. They can't make the same mistake. They could maybe make different mistakes but I don't really think so. ME has not changed much from 1 to 3 as far as I have seen. At least not as radically as the leap from DA:O to DA2. Anything bad that can be read about ME3 could also be read about ME2. Didn't stop people from buying it and didn't stop ME2 from being quite successful.

[Tazzmission]

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

DO you realize that by bioware doing this they making more people interested in rpgs and giving the genre more attention?? oh wait let me guess bioware makes games specifically for you and only you. OP with all do respect if i could get more exposure in producing a product i would definitely go for it. It's good for the genre and good for business too. Wait...what i'm i doing? Trying to speak sense on the BSN? impossibru.....let me join the hoard. I do not like femshep's finger nails!!!!!

common sense does not compute for that platform ( op)!

This is one of the problems with rpg players. We think we are above every other genre out there. A fighter game fan could easily talk to an adventure or action game fan(eliminating possible outliers). I like that they don't refer to themselves as "fighting game gamers" or "action gamers"...they are just "gamers". Now comes us rpgs fans and to be honest we do seem somehow arrogant and close minded when it comes to issues. Brings me to my next point. If we continue like this are we going to stunt the growth of this precious genre?

the funny thing is i mentioned maybe 2 nights ago or today ( cant remember) that there isnt one only type of gamer.


i myself may not be the brightest rock in the world when it comes to buisness but even a moron like me knows bioware wants to expand  THERE franchise wich imo is a great idea since mass effect is the best thing i have played in my 27 years of gaming. people like to call me a butt kisser and thats fine as long as bioware buys me dinner and trust me i am a expensive date

ps. if op dosent understand that last comment it's called being funny

Modifié par Tazzmission, 17 février 2012 - 10:04 .

[GuardianAngel470]

egervari wrote...

I know this, but again, it's the kind of marketing that DA2 had - same direction, same purpose. 

And sometimes quick sales is not desirable either. Sometimes you have to look at the "big picture" - i.e. long-term profits. While Dragon Age 2 definitely sold more copies than Origins during the first week, it sold less and less as the weeks went on. For the first 10 weeks, Origins had sold twice as many copies as Dragon Age 2. Now you tell me, was it worth it? No, it wasn't.

Quick sales are very important if you know what I mean by quick. If a game sells a lot of copies over 5 years it matters a heck of a lot how many of those sales were made in the first year. Look at Crysis 1 as an example. That game was not truly profitable because, while it sold millions, those sales were made over a long period of time and thus Crytek didn't receive a return on their investment when they needed it. They were millions of dollars in the hole for years because they didn't sell enough quickly enough.

Now of course that was due to the fact that their game could barely be played on the top of the line hardware of the day but the point still stands. Businesses need a return on their investment quickly or they could go bankrupt before they see a penny in profit.

Again, Biowares silence with respect to this speaks volumes. EA has proven to not be the best pubisher in the world. Their marketing has been hit and miss. It was miss for Dragon Age 2, as was their "suggestions" on how to make Dragon Age "better".

If I had made Mass Effect or Dragon Age, I would want my game to be marketed properly - at least not in a way to alienate and do harm to the existing core group of fans that have generously funded the development of these games and gave the company profits that continue to see them employed.

Little known fact: Silence is an established marketing tool. Just look at Apple and how effectively they advertise their products without saying a word. Then look at loose-lips Microsoft which can't keep a secret worth a damn.

Look it up: It's called Silent Marketing. And, again, this is handled at the publisher/marketing firm level. EA being the publisher, I'm sure Bioware have been ordered to keep their mouths shut and let the marketing team do their jobs.

If Bioware really could say something without breaching contract somewhere, don't you think they would now that the game has gone gold and the devs aren't crunching? Don't you think they'd want to defend themselves against you lot?

[SykoWolf]

Tazzmission wrote...

Metalunatic wrote...

What is up with the people on this thread? You're flaming the OP and kissing Bioware's ass and for what? You don't get paid to do it.

first off we arent flaming and im no butt kisser. its one thing to discuss certain things like an adult but seeing as alot of people who post on the bsn act childish what do you expect?

can you honestly sit there and tell me that yea some ** fans** say some of the most idiotic things?

heres an example....


crying and moaning because games favor the console over the pc


or or another one


omg waaa the graphics are so bad im gona cancel my pre order and seriously who buys games just for graphics?

seriously as much as we posters and the devs themselfs  try telling these nutjobs what they want to know there never satisfied. they really do believe theres a conspiracey and honestly its not only sad but unhealthy

and im sorry but if people can do anything better please enlighten me id love to see how these whiney so called fans take the time to balance what the real fans want and also cater to a new crowd and you know what if they ( whiners) cant come up with a answer than they shouldnt complain at all.

THIS^
The marketing is fine, it obviously got the masses anxious for the game......what does Bioware care if there's a few dozen people who cry over the omni blade images, I mean seriously get a life....if you don't want the game then don't get it!

[egervari]

FemaleMageFan wrote...

DO you realize that by bioware doing this they making more people interested in rpgs and giving the genre more attention?? oh wait let me guess bioware makes games specifically for you and only you. OP with all do respect if i could get more exposure in producing a product i would definitely go for it. It's good for the genre and good for business too. Wait...what i'm i doing? Trying to speak sense on the BSN? impossibru.....let me join the hoard. I do not like femshep's finger nails!!!!!

I try not to bother responding to posts like this. You're not the first. If you track all of the pages, I've avoided all the sarcastic, childish, etc. comments and I only responded to the sincere and serious ones.

Having said that, you can't be all things to all people. When you take away from one aspect of the game to draw another audience in, it's going to weaken the draw that the original audience once had. Do this enough, and you water down the game for both audiences, making something that people may accept or enjoy, but will never consider the best possible version of the game - one side will want it more one way than the other, so it comes off as oddly mediocre. It is very hard to blend two genres together so that completely opposite gamers will love the game as much as they would have loved it if it was directly suited for them.

Essentially, these are trade-offs that the game designers have to make. It is not necessarily no-brainer decisions here, because you don't always get the best of both worlds. Adding one mechanic often destroys or minimizes another. So if the goal is to include a wider audience to increase sales, the devs have to ask one simple question: At what cost?

They tried to do this with Dragon Age 2, as I explained many times (please, just re-read my posts on this for more detail). It failed. That's it in a nutshell.

That doesn't mean the same fate is set in stone for ME3, but I have never seen the marketing and pandering done so badly as it has been done for ME3.

Honestly, I think it is very hard to make a 30-40 hour RPG with a deep, thoughtful story and setting to be appealing to gamers who want more condensed, action-oriented gameplay. Sure, they add "missions" into the game, which makes it more accessible to the FPS players... they like that gameplay split into smaller chunks... but it destroys the more cohesive, non-linear and patient gameplay the original fans liked. You can't have your cake and it eat too.

That is the whole point of what I'm talking about.

Modifié par egervari, 17 février 2012 - 10:07 .

[Tazzmission]

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

FemaleMageFan wrote...

DO you realize that by bioware doing this they making more people interested in rpgs and giving the genre more attention?? oh wait let me guess bioware makes games specifically for you and only you. OP with all do respect if i could get more exposure in producing a product i would definitely go for it. It's good for the genre and good for business too. Wait...what i'm i doing? Trying to speak sense on the BSN? impossibru.....let me join the hoard. I do not like femshep's finger nails!!!!!

common sense does not compute for that platform ( op)!

This is one of the problems with rpg players. We think we are above every other genre out there. A fighter game fan could easily talk to an adventure or action game fan(eliminating possible outliers). I like that they don't refer to themselves as "fighting game gamers" or "action gamers"...they are just "gamers". Now comes us rpgs fans and to be honest we do seem somehow arrogant and close minded when it comes to issues. Brings me to my next point. If we continue like this are we going to stunt the growth of this precious genre?

the funny thing is i mentioned maybe 2 nights ago or today ( cant remember) that there isnt one only type of gamer.


i myself may not be the brightest rock in the world when it comes to buisness but even a moron like me knows bioware wants to expand  THERE franchise wich imo is a great idea since mass effect is the best thing i have played in my 27 years of gaming

Dude.......its the best thing ever

whats funny is i was never a rpg fan but mass effect really did kick that door open for me.

heh heck before i started playing this franchise i would just stick with mainly fighters and pro wrestling games and that says alot despite how much people cry and moan.


and again i never cared for third person shooters until i played the first dead space.

so yea at the rate mass effect is growing and expanding i really do think it'll be more in the pop culture of things like a cartoon series ( not anime one), movies, maybe even a tv show back packs etc etc.


picture maybe 5 years and it could be on the level as star wars or star trek