158 réponses à ce sujet

[CowHoofOnAHotPlate]

Those are some good points, PLC.

Modifié par CowHoofOnAHotPlate, 17 février 2012 - 12:22 .

[RedWulfi]

Either way this thread will be closed now Too much arguing. /Ruined

[daftPirate]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

daftPirate wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

 Low standards is not something to be proud of.

Society is something you hold to a standard. Not video games.

So video games can't be critiqued now and compared to their peers?  Seriously?

As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to. I don't play 007: Goldeneye, or Ocarina of Time, or Halo because of graphics, or fps, or writing. I just game for the fun of it, and when it comes down to it, most of the issues people have brought up regarding ME3 won't affect how much fun it is for me. 

I wouldn't presume to tell people what not to be concerned about, that's their business, and their opinion. The PLC's thread is just a shout out to BioWare that while some are very unhappy with ME3, others are very happy with it.

[AlphaJarmel]

daftPirate wrote...
I wouldn't presume to tell people what not to be concerned about, that's their business, and their opinion. The PLC's thread is just a shout out to BioWare that while some are very unhappy with ME3, others are very happy with it.

That's what the feedback threads are for.  

[Sapienti]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

You don't own a thread.  If a person went into a Tali thread and talked about Miranda in the terms of Tali that is perfectly fine, people do it all the time.  However just trying to be in your own bubble and put your fingers in your ears is almost childish to an extent.  If you feel certain things are fine then argue them in that particular thread.

Trolling in threads is just as bad though and its ironic how you're attempting to ride a high horse of forum ediquette while doing so. The least you could do is form an argument as to why you believe low standards are required in order to enjoy a demo. I don't expect it though as again, you're only seeking to inflame and I wouldn't expect a sound argument from someone who can't even spell "Jamal" right.

Anyway on topic, I enjoyed the demo too. I don't really get what people's complaints about the writing were about and every thread or post complaining about it failed to post examples as, but I played through it a second time today just to see if there were any lines that stuck out as particularly bad for this series and didn't notice anything. Only thing I didn't really care for was the first assault rifles sound effects. Other complaints are same as ME2 though (cover button being the same as climb over cover!). 

I particularly love the new weight system and the way skills evolve now. 

Modifié par Sapienti, 17 février 2012 - 11:03 .

[Vengeful Nature]

Crepe100 wrote...

Here here! Finally someone who is brave enough to open a topic about how much they love the game, I am totally with you! Nothing dissapointed me at all in the demo, maybe the cruiser/dreadnaught incident, but that's just nitpicking, but otherwise, pretty slammin' demo. Let's just hope the flak don't get too much.

I think it takes more bravery to express your dissatisfaction with the game so far, because of the armies of people calling you a troll if you so much as make a face.

daftPirate wrote...

AlphaJarmel wrote...

 Low standards is not something to be proud of.

Society is something you hold to a standard. Not video games.

That way lie hell. Without high standards, excellent games such as Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate II, Half-Life 2, KOTOR, Dragon Age: Origins, hell, the list goes on, would never have been made. What you're basically suggesting is that people should be happy with a "new" CoD "game" every year, because high standards are somehow bad.

[AlphaJarmel]

Sapienti wrote...

Trolling in threads is just as bad though and its ironic how you're attempting to ride a high horse of forum ediquette while doing so. The least you could do is form an argument as to why you believe low standards are required in order to enjoy a demo. I don't expect it though as again, you're only seeking to inflame and I wouldn't expect a sound argument from someone who can't even spell "Jamal" right.

Ad hominem really?  Oh and I wasn't trying to spell Jamal so strike on that.  The problem I have with the OP's post was that there are TECHNICAL issues such as the framerate on the PS3.  Saying you are fine with framerate issues is just plain low standards.  Then there are things such as the 2D sprites which might not matter to some or even most people but that's different than thinking it's great.  This whole thread is just as bad as the ones where people just circlebash the game and don't note the positives.

[Sapienti]

Vengeful Nature wrote...


I think it takes more bravery to express your dissatisfaction with the game so far, because of the armies of people calling you a troll if you so much as make a face.



That way lie hell. Without high standards, excellent games such as Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate II, Half-Life 2, KOTOR, Dragon Age: Origins, hell, the list goes on, would never have been made. What you're basically suggesting is that people should be happy with a "new" CoD "game" every year, because high standards are somehow bad.

False, it takes nothing at all to go on a forum and complain about something. Hell, its extremely easy to do so on the internet because everything is essentially anonymous. You don't even need to go back into your thread and read the replies. The problems really come in when people fail to support their arguments or dissatisfaction. Other problems arise when you're dealing with someone who just has a chip on their shoulder and decides to simply nit pick over anything and everything they could possibly perceive as a short coming. There is a very thick line between dissatisfaction and whining and people tend to post on the whining side far more often than simply being dissatisfied. 

[daftPirate]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

daftPirate wrote...
I wouldn't presume to tell people what not to be concerned about, that's their business, and their opinion. The PLC's thread is just a shout out to BioWare that while some are very unhappy with ME3, others are very happy with it.

That's what the feedback threads are for.  

I don't mind that, but have you given the same reminder to the many who've created threads about how horrible animations are, or how bad framerate is, or disappointing it is not to be able to holster their gun? Shouldn't these issues also be in feedback threads?

You also just pointed out that its an online forum, where people can leave comments and feedback wherever they feel the need.

[Arbiter156]

i agree with the PLC's OP completely. yeah ME3 isnt perfect but as has been said nothing is. "he who searches for perfection is also the person who knows that perfection does not and cannot ever exist"

[AlphaJarmel]

daftPirate wrote...

I don't mind that, but have you given the same reminder to the many who've created threads about how horrible animations are, or how bad framerate is, or disappointing it is not to be able to holster their gun? Shouldn't these issues also be in feedback threads?

You also just pointed out that its an online forum, where people can leave comments and feedback wherever they feel the need.

Priestly has already locked a bunch of threads over just that.  I also think those are particular grievances that people have rather than the general, "I think the demo is great/bad".  I doubt anyone would care if a person created a thread noting the music or graphics in general.

It's more of an organizational issue where you have comments on general things such as praise overall or just bashing.  It's when you try to cut off arguments by creating your own bubbles is what I have an issue with.

Modifié par AlphaJarmel, 17 février 2012 - 11:13 .

[Sapienti]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Sapienti wrote...

Trolling in threads is just as bad though and its ironic how you're attempting to ride a high horse of forum ediquette while doing so. The least you could do is form an argument as to why you believe low standards are required in order to enjoy a demo. I don't expect it though as again, you're only seeking to inflame and I wouldn't expect a sound argument from someone who can't even spell "Jamal" right.

Ad hominem really?  Oh and I wasn't trying to spell Jamal so strike on that.  The problem I have with the OP's post was that there are TECHNICAL issues such as the framerate on the PS3.  Saying you are fine with framerate issues is just plain low standards.  Then there are things such as the 2D sprites which might not matter to some or even most people but that's different than thinking it's great.  This whole thread is just as bad as the ones where people just circlebash the game and don't note the positives.

*claps* Much better. But still off base. He never praised the 2D sprites nor did he go and say the frame rates were fine. You're superimposing your own issues into his praise and then complaining about it vaguely.

Edit: Oh and the Jamal bit was just bait. You passed. 

Modifié par Sapienti, 17 février 2012 - 11:13 .

[AlphaJarmel]

Sapienti wrote...
*claps* Much better. But still off base. He never praised the 2D sprites nor did he go and say the frame rates were fine. You're superimposing your own issues into his praise and then complaining about it vaguely.

Edit: Oh and the Jamal bit was just bait. You passed. 

His title states everything is great.  Normally this might go under strawman but that title is pretty clear.

[Vengeful Nature]

The PLC wrote...

But there's already tons of threads for that. If some dude doesn't like the demo, why post it in here of all places.

For discussion. This is a discussion thread, after all. Nothing gets achieved if everyone agrees with each other. That's why democracy is such a great thing. It's about compromise.

Sapienti wrote...

False, it takes nothing at all to go on a
forum and complain about something. Hell, its extremely easy to do so
on the internet because everything is essentially anonymous. You don't
even need to go back into your thread and read the replies. The problems
really come in when people fail to support their arguments or
dissatisfaction. Other problems arise when you're dealing with someone
who just has a chip on their shoulder and decides to simply nit pick
over anything and everything they could possibly perceive as a short
coming. There is a very thick line between dissatisfaction and whining
and people tend to post on the whining side far more often than simply
being dissatisfied.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I were to start a thread expressing a legitimate complaint only to be shot down by dozens of pages of people going "not this again!" and "trooooolllllll", then I would be quite nonplussed, to say the least.

Also, I would say that there are people like you say on both sides of the argument. I agree that a legitimate complaint, backed up by good reasoning, is maybe 1 in 50, but that doesn't diminish the value of the complaint. And when the Bioware supporters are busy defending against accusations of every nature, it can probably be a knee-jerk reaction to something that Bioware honestly needs to hear about to make better games in the future.

[Lotion Soronarr]

I'm happy for you....

[CowHoofOnAHotPlate]

PLC this is a great thread.

Modifié par CowHoofOnAHotPlate, 17 février 2012 - 12:22 .

[Arbiter156]

Vengeful Nature wrote...

The PLC wrote...

But there's already tons of threads for that. If some dude doesn't like the demo, why post it in here of all places.

For discussion. This is a discussion thread, after all. Nothing gets achieved if everyone agrees with each other. That's why democracy is such a great thing. It's about compromise.

Sapienti wrote...

False, it takes nothing at all to go on a
forum and complain about something. Hell, its extremely easy to do so
on the internet because everything is essentially anonymous. You don't
even need to go back into your thread and read the replies. The problems
really come in when people fail to support their arguments or
dissatisfaction. Other problems arise when you're dealing with someone
who just has a chip on their shoulder and decides to simply nit pick
over anything and everything they could possibly perceive as a short
coming. There is a very thick line between dissatisfaction and whining
and people tend to post on the whining side far more often than simply
being dissatisfied.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I were to start a thread expressing a legitimate complaint only to be shot down by dozens of pages of people going "not this again!" and "trooooolllllll", then I would be quite nonplussed, to say the least.

Also, I would say that there are people like you say on both sides of the argument. I agree that a legitimate complaint, backed up by good reasoning, is maybe 1 in 50, but that doesn't diminish the value of the complaint. And when the Bioware supporters are busy defending against accusations of every nature, it can probably be a knee-jerk reaction to something that Bioware honestly needs to hear about to make better games in the future.

if you are that affected by being called a troll by some of the overzealsous forum members then perhaps you shouldnt be on the forums as Sapienti said it doesnt take much effort to complain about a game, but there is a line between legitimate complaints and unreasonable nit-picking

[Arbiter156]

CowHoofOnAHotPlate wrote...

PLC this is nothing but trollbait.

then where are the trolls?

[daftPirate]

AlphaJarmel wrote...

Priestly has already locked a bunch of threads over just that.  I also think those are particular grievances that people have rather than the general, "I think the demo is great/bad".  I doubt anyone would care if a person created a thread noting the music or graphics in general.

It's more of an organizational issue where you have comments on general things such as praise overall or just bashing.  It's when you try to cut off arguments by creating your own bubbles is what I have an issue with.

While I think these issues could have been just as duly noted in a feedback thread, I see what you mean. It's just kinda sad when no thread can be made that doesn't degenerate into a debate(where no debate is needed). Starting a thread on a well-meaning note, only for someone to tell you you have low standards leads to just that. On the other hand, jumping in to say "This probably belongs in a feedback thread" isn't abrasive, or offensive to anyone.

Also, for whatever reason, my quote appears twice in your post...

[tetrisblock4x1]

The PLC wrote...

gethspy wrote...

I wouldn't say its perfect, but some of the criticisms seem to get blown way out of proportion,

I haven't seen so much hate for one game pre-launch outside of MW3

I know I say that ME3 is the best game ever a lot (which it is), but that said, no it's not perfect. Nothing is.

Arkham City is. It did everything that Asylum did, only better. That is what you call a perfect sequel.