374 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolfva2]

Zero, it's obvious you feel very strongly about your opinion. However, it is ONLY that. AN OPINION. It is not the gods one truth handed down from upon high to you to disseminate upon the lowly peons yearning to be led by your superior knowledge and wisdom. So howabout remembering that and stop acting as if it is? Arrogance rarely goes over well.



Btw, you DO make choices in the game which effect how it plays out. You can even make the choice of NOT stopping the blight. Namely by shutting down the game and doing something else. But if you play, are you led down certain pathways? Yes. Because this is NOT a wide open free choice game; it is a ROLE playing game where you are playing a role...that of a young Gray Warden fighting to stop the blight. You have certain obligations, and a definate goal which you are fighting towards. That is part and parcel of the game.

[XombieMaxx]

Fathnir wrote...

addiction21 wrote...

ZeroMystic wrote...

Choice is not only being able to go against the grain of the story that is in place but actually being allowed exercise that option should i want to.
 
Choice is when I am asked if I want to join the grey wardens and I say no, being allowed to do so (NOT BEING TOLD WELL YOU ARE JOINING ANYWAY) if I say no that should be ok and should end it
 
Choice is being allowed to skip things and being allowed to progress without doing them, such as not getting my dog, if I don’t want to go get my dog, I should be able to skip doing it and then be allowed to continue playing even though I don't have him, but yet I cannot continue unless I do have him.
 
Choice is being able to go get my brother before having to get my dog from the kitchen, If I am given the option where it says I have to find my brother first, then I should be able to click on that option and be told OK LETS GO GET YORU BROTHER FIRST.
 
Choice is being able to skip the joining of the grey wardens in the camp if i want
 
Choice is being able to leave the camp even though I am told not to
 
Choice is being able to stay with my mother and father when the option shows I can say “No, I won't go” or “I am staying”.
Then when I pick those I should be staying put.
 
But you have ZERO CHOICES IN ANY OF THOSE THINGS I HAVE LISTED ABOVE.
 
You are being given dialog choices as if you can choose and execute them, but then even when you choose them, you are still not being allowed to do them, and or being told about something I should be able to skip but can't, because if I try to bypass doing them, then I cannot progress until I do do them..

So as you can see, this game is extremely restricted, linear, and has ZERO freedom of choice in it.

But you have not played summoner so you have no concept of choices and what a real rpg is.

ROFL.

Choice is actually deciding to read the back of the box or not

Choice is being able to decide if you've made the right choice or not

Choice is.... god wow... ok let's say you had a choice in EVERYTHING... you have then defeated the purpose in the game... I quote "You are a Grey Warden, one of the last of a legendary order of guardians. With the return of an ancient foe and the kingdom engulfed in civil war, you have been chosen by fate to unite the shattered lands and slay the archedemon once and for all."

Let's just say you decided to NOT become a Grey Warden... the game becomes null. The fact that it's your fate kinda narrows it down to the fact that you either become one or you die... it's like saying you have a choice to become any 'TEAM' you wish in a football game but you turning around saying "But that's not choice, what if I don't want to play?"

There are laws in this game that outsmart you. You become a Grey Warden or you die.. you can't go places because there are guards making sure you don't leave for whatever reason... if you mean BEFORE you become a grey warden in the camp at the beginning then... that's because 1. Darkspawn lurk everywhere, it's for your own protection and 2. You are becomming a Grey Warden, there is no turning back... it's that or death.....

I could go 'ON AND ON'... but you want this game to have infinite possibility. Yes let's not be Grey Wardens... let's be farmers instead, whilst we farm our land and bring Harvest Moon to this game... we shall fend ourselves against the darkspawn with our pitchforks...

What exactly would you do had you the choice to just run around freely? Maybe you could buy world of warcraft... and pretends you have a choice in everything you do...

Note this: Choice isn't always yours, choice is what you are offered. In this world, your choice is not the only choice that counts... same goes for this game. The characters have choices to hate or like you... you cannot choose if they like you or not... learn the concept of life before playing games like this... thus you will come far.

[XombieMaxx]

Wolfva2 wrote...

Zero, it's obvious you feel very strongly about your opinion. However, it is ONLY that. AN OPINION. It is not the gods one truth handed down from upon high to you to disseminate upon the lowly peons yearning to be led by your superior knowledge and wisdom. So howabout remembering that and stop acting as if it is? Arrogance rarely goes over well.

Btw, you DO make choices in the game which effect how it plays out. You can even make the choice of NOT stopping the blight. Namely by shutting down the game and doing something else. But if you play, are you led down certain pathways? Yes. Because this is NOT a wide open free choice game; it is a ROLE playing game where you are playing a role...that of a young Gray Warden fighting to stop the blight. You have certain obligations, and a definate goal which you are fighting towards. That is part and parcel of the game.

Damn... if I read that before I posted... lol you took the words out my mouth and put it in much better context and format. I would delete my previous comment but I am inclined not to.

[Shinji Ex]

BioWare games are RPG! to say there not is like saying IW does not make FPS

[kahramoh]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Epic win for this one

[Mordaedil]

I can read minds.



I read the OP's mind and what I hear is very close to this video: youtube



Could be that he's trying to tell us something.



FYI; You have a choice of not getting dog. You are only FORCED to bring one companion. That companion is Alistair.



Also, as for a choice not to become a Grey Warden, it's a bit complicated, but you need to tap Alt-F4 as fast as you can during the cut-scene and then the game will trigger your choice.

[ZeroMystic]

I want someone to provide actual in game dialog that has a choice about what you want to do, then show me that you were able to select the option YOU WANTED and have the game abide by the option you chose.



If I am being asked if I want to become a grey warden, and I am presented with an option of joining or not, if I say no then it should be no, if I say yes then it should be yes.



Why am I being asked when regardless of what i choose, I am being forced into it anyway.



Anyone who thinks that is free choice has severe mental issues.

[ZeroMystic]

One other thing i want to say is that there is nothing you can choose in any dialog that changes anything in the dialog further on in the game.

You have no choice BUT to become a Grey Warden, and then you either go to battle with or without help.

There is no free choice in DA:O it all has the same outcome. You are still being a Grey warden, and you still need to battle in the end

The only way to actually affect what happens later on is if you can go against the choices in the story that are far too linear. So not becoming a grey warden would change the outcom. but since you cannot get around being a grey warden, then storline is exactly the same.

Modifié par ZeroMystic, 26 novembre 2009 - 11:27 .

[Alex Savchovsky]

For an instance, you CAN choose who is the next dwarven king. You CAN choose whether to save the Circle of Magi or not. You CAN choose whether to kill Zevran or not. Enough spoilers? 

[Doright36]

I doze off because I stay up way too late playing it because I don't want to stop...





Is that bad?

[Armalas85]

ZeroMystic wrote...

One other thing i want to say is that there is nothing you can choose in any dialog that changes anything in the dialog further on in the game.

You have no choice BUT to become a Grey Warden, and then you either go to battle with or without help.

There is no free choice in DA:O it all has the same outcome. You are still being a Grey warden, and you still need to battle in the end
So not becoming a grey warden would change the outcom. but since you cannot get around being a grey warden, then storline is exactly the same.

That's the whole purpose of the game? The story revolves around an unlikely hero becoming a Greywarden...

Would you like us to just plob you into a world with no story or plot?

"Here's a training stick +1 and a Tunic, lightly embroidered, now be on your way ... doing... something.. or other.."

Of course you don't have a choice whether you become a Grey Warden or not because that's the whole premise of the game, you have to have a framework, and there's definitely enough variatino based on your choices to alter many many aspects of the story, or do you keep making the same dialogue options?

>.<

I hate myself for saying this, but please go play something else if it offends so much? I'm on my 3rd playthrough and I am still finding new things that I can change based on my decisions, do I skip some dialogue now? Yes of course, do I find it tedious? Not really because there's enough choices to keep it interesting for a while yet.

[Are el]

This thread is starting to border on the absurd. I can't believe it's still going.

[Derengard]

I think the game is well-balanced. Many have also remarked on too much bloody fighting, you know. Strangely, I can't relate to the complaints about too much dialogue, although I'm one of the few who would put this forth in the case of Mass Effect, because I find too little substance and originality in many of the dialogues.

Anyway, this cannot be decided once and for all. There's nothing inherently wrong with a dialogue-heavy RPG.

[boba1974]

ZeroMystic wrote...

I want someone to provide actual in game dialog that has a choice about what you want to do, then show me that you were able to select the option YOU WANTED and have the game abide by the option you chose.
.

So, troll it is then, eh?

There are many instances in Dragon Age where you get to make choices and those choices stick. Dragon Age is littered with choices that effect the story throughout. The fact that you don't know this shows you haven't even played the game long enough to form an educated opinion on the matter.

You know what else is funny? You went on this huge rant about Summoner, and there is ZERO choice in that game. Summoner is the exact same game no matter how many times you play it. Dragon Age, on the other hand, can be made into a completely different experience based on CHOICES you make during the game.
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[ScotGaymer]

Why is this thread still going on?



Stop feeding the Troll people!



Can a mod come in ere and slap ZeroMystic with a ban stick and lock this thread?

[SheffSteel]

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

For an instance, you CAN choose who is the next (spoiler). You CAN choose whether to save the Circle of )spoiler) or not. You CAN choose whether to kill (spoiler) or not. Enough spoilers? 

 More than enough to prove ZeroMystic wrong. Here's hoping they are savvy enough to notice. 

[Alex Savchovsky]

SheffSteel wrote...

Alex Savchovsky wrote...

For an instance, you CAN choose who is the next (spoiler). You CAN choose whether to save the Circle of )spoiler) or not. You CAN choose whether to kill (spoiler) or not. Enough spoilers? 

 More than enough to prove ZeroMystic wrong. Here's hoping they are savvy enough to notice. 

Apologies about the spoilers. Guess I got trolled, heh.

[MorseDenizen]

Mate I can see your point of view on the game and I have to agree wit some other posters this game isn't really for you, in many ways imo its similar to Tolkien's writing lots of narrative and explanation of everything (I spent 2 hours yestrday reading through the codex) it's just one of those things that pull u in or turn you away from it, while i personally find the whole thing endearing I can agree that some things are a little long winded, that said the bits that pull me in more than make up for it, you might want to look into other types of games rather than story drive RPG, essentially again in my opinion this game is very much baldur's gate with graphics, similar to an interactive novel. I for one respect your point of view and get where youre coming from even if I dont agree.

[Mordaedil]

ZeroMystic wrote...

I want someone to provide actual in game dialog that has a choice about what you want to do, then show me that you were able to select the option YOU WANTED and have the game abide by the option you chose.

If I am being asked if I want to become a grey warden, and I am presented with an option of joining or not, if I say no then it should be no, if I say yes then it should be yes.

Why am I being asked when regardless of what i choose, I am being forced into it anyway.

Anyone who thinks that is free choice has severe mental issues.

If you said no to become a Grey Warden, do you have a suggestion on what would happen? Did you see what happened to the other guy who said no?

You're not really forced into anything, except to make the game progress. Why is that so wrong?

[Acemath]

I have the opinion there's too little conversation in the game...Except for the dwarven armorer in Denerim Marketplace,i like to kick his ass.I've read every friggin dialogue+my answers untill now,and want more of them.Lots more,i still have the feeling i get to know the people ingame and my party,but not enough as i want to...

[looboo]

I think I understand what you're trying to say ZeroMystic - dialogs make the game feel very sluggish, and I agree, somewhat. And this is coming from someone who's read every single Codex entry in the game up until the Landsmeet (that's where I curently am in the story)

But I think it's not the amount of actual dialog that does that and even if you feel it is, there's always the esc key to skip it - but more like the very dated, age-old multiple-choice dialog system the game uses - at least for me.

With this system the player has to wade through a minimum of 4 or 5 "useless" choices before you find the one you want to say (or more like the one you're supposed to say). Then each time you hear the NPC's reaction there comes again an additional "paragraph" for the player to read through. A minute of actual conversation is inflated to double or triple lenght because of this. It's just a waste of time.

I much prefer the way Mass Effect did it, where you can influence the way the conversation is headed with a few quick decisions, like "be more agressive", "investigate", etc. It does not necessarily have any less text than other crpgs but lessens the "work" of digging through replies done by the player.

[Sylixe]

Default137 wrote...

He's got a point in a way.

I mean, I love reading all this stuff, everything I can, digging up as many Codex Entries as I can, just to learn as much as I can about the world, but after my first playthrough, its basically just going through the motions, I can almost recite on memory what the Guard at the end of the Ostagar Bridge will say, as well as most of the other NPCs in that area. Yet you have to do it, because if you don't you miss out on valuable stuff, and might lose out on exp/other stuff you don't know about because your to worried not to do it.

And no offense to all the high and mighty in this thread, neither DA:O or really any other Bioware game is a "story-based RPG", they are called "tactical RPGs", and are very unlike many other RPGs which are more hack and slash driven. Some people may like tactical RPGs but might not like tons of story, is that a crime?

Fair enough but what do you consider a true RPG?  From the standards some people put out here the only game i can come up with as a true RPG is the old 90's MuD's.  If we move away from the computer genre than i would say older versions of D&D.  I mean has anyone seen 4th edition D&D yet?  It plays like a pointless MMO now rather than an RPG.  Story is all but nonexistent and replaced by mindless hack and slash and talents.  If you compare it to DAO well DAO wins on story hands down, which is really pathetic.

Zero i think you need to come to terms with what i did years ago after the MuD's sort of dried up and Everquest/Ultima Online took over.  True RPG's no longer exist because they do NOT sell.  There's a reason WoW is so stupidly popular and a whole generation of gamers think it's what a true RPG is.  Sadly they do not know how awful of a game it really is and that is basically a pack of cigarett's bundled into a gaming box and sold to underage kids to get them hooked online.

We are never going to have old school RPG's back because of the bottom line.  It is a sad thing to say but one that i have accepted to a degree.  I enjoy this game as a dialog riven adventure RPG and not as somethign that allows me to go do whatever i want, which is an illusionin games anyway.  You only think you have freedom but in reality you have less freedom than you think.

FYI i don't think Zero is a troll, i just think he's about where i was a few years ago finally realising that this is about the best we will get from gaming companies now in the RPG genre.  the instant gratification, hach and slash kiddies have the superior purchasing power and they are marketing to them.

Modifié par Sylixe, 26 novembre 2009 - 04:06 .

[PT.Vohnsen]

ZeroMystic wrote...

There are a lot of "crap hot headed" games out there, and Bioware show how its done!

The only thing BIoWare has done is shown they can remove and totally strip a player out of freedom of choice and still give off the illusion of having choice

I am still wating for someone to explain to me how pre-determained outcomes that you are being forced into in this cinematic tactical aventure and now not being allowed to execute 3/4 of the dialog options you are being shown, constitues as an RPG?
Explain why stripping freedom of choice while showing you actual dialog choices youc annot ever use, makes for good playability?

Like i said, this game isn't for you.

"totally strip a player out of freedom"

OMG, how can i argue against that?

[addiction21]

Sylixe wrote...

Default137 wrote...

He's got a point in a way.

I mean, I love reading all this stuff, everything I can, digging up as many Codex Entries as I can, just to learn as much as I can about the world, but after my first playthrough, its basically just going through the motions, I can almost recite on memory what the Guard at the end of the Ostagar Bridge will say, as well as most of the other NPCs in that area. Yet you have to do it, because if you don't you miss out on valuable stuff, and might lose out on exp/other stuff you don't know about because your to worried not to do it.

And no offense to all the high and mighty in this thread, neither DA:O or really any other Bioware game is a "story-based RPG", they are called "tactical RPGs", and are very unlike many other RPGs which are more hack and slash driven. Some people may like tactical RPGs but might not like tons of story, is that a crime?

Fair enough but what do you consider a true RPG?  From the standards some people put out here the only game i can come up with as a true RPG is the old 90's MuD's.  If we move away from the computer genre than i would say older versions of D&D.  I mean has anyone seen 4th edition D&D yet?  It plays like a pointless MMO now rather than an RPG.  Story is all but nonexistent and replaced by mindless hack and slash and talents.  If you compare it to DAO well DAO wins on story hands down, which is really pathetic.

Zero i think you need to come to terms with what i did years ago after the MuD's sort of dried up and Everquest/Ultima Online took over.  True RPG's no longer exist because they do NOT sell.  There's a reason WoW is so stupidly popular and a whole generation of gamers think it's what a true RPG is.  Sadly they do not know how awful of a game it really is and that is basically a pack of cigarett's bundled into a gaming box and sold to underage kids to get them hooked online.

We are never going to have old school RPG's back because of the bottom line.  It is a sad thing to say but one that i have accepted to a degree.  I enjoy this game as a dialog riven adventure RPG and not as somethign that allows me to go do whatever i want, which is an illusionin games anyway.  You only think you have freedom but in reality you have less freedom than you think.

FYI i don't think Zero is a troll, i just think he's about where i was a few years ago finally realising that this is about the best we will get from gaming companies now in the RPG genre.  the instant gratification, hach and slash kiddies have the superior purchasing power and they are marketing to them.

But you never played summoner so you have no concept of space, time, history, waffles, apples, or RPG's...

If hes not a troll then he is the most thickheads ****wad walking the earth right now.   There is no game that would stand up and hold true of his increadible narrow view of what a RPG is. Not even summoner lets you make the kind of choices he wants to and I can not think of any game that allows you to do anything at anytime whenever you want.  PnP video games either way there has always been some type of contraints.

[Barrendall]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

I cant believe that this thread is still going on.

Okay right.

*Deliberately puts onf thick Scots accent (cos im from a part of Scotland where the accent isnt particularily thick)*

Right boys n girls.

Ye all need to be calmin doon and stop fightin wi each other cos its just no right. Awe right?

The issue aboot RPGs versus FPSs. Can ah just say that ah dinnah like FPS games like AT AWE, and that I played the Halo games and find they arent mindless at awe?
That they were really fun and immersive for whit they are?

Folks areney necessarily stupit if they like FPSs or smart if they like RPGs.

I also baith agree and disagree wi the OP.

Disagree cos ah think he's a bit of a moron who aint even payin nae attention to the dialogue in game at awe. Ah think hes just clickin right thru it awe withoot readin or listenin or anythin.
At least thats the impression hes gave me.
That bein the case, it boggles mah mind how he can say the dialogue is unncessary. How the hell would ye know if ye've no ruddy listening or read any o' it?

If ye actually take the time to listen and read then most of it is indeed necessary and sensible.

But ah says ah also agree wi the Sandal like OP. Why ye wonder?

Well ah think that bioware did include a lotta extraneous information in the game. Also the dialogue wis exceptionally wordy.
And it can get a bit tiresome especially on subsequent playthrus, where ur havin to "click, click, click" to get thru a convo cos he's still witterin on and uve finished readin what hes on about 5 minutes ago.

But ah also think that Bioware did this fir a guid reason.
They created a whole new world fir us to explore and that was completely alien tae us; so they had to include all the lore fir it all in the game otherwise they be flooded wi complainers oan here givin it big licks aboot stuff no makin any sense to them because of a lack of background information.
But the point is the vast majority of the background "unnecessary" stuff is in the codex to be read OPTIONALLY.

Ah think that this wis the right approach personally.

So nae mair arguin. Cos this OP is either just lookin fir a fight or really genuinely honestly completely stupit.

*Turns off thick accent and goes back to talking normally*

So yeh. Just ya know DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

That is all.

QFT!  This post is pure Win