374 réponses à ce sujet

[xsikal]

I actually agree that the fact that 99% of all dialogue is done through cinematics really interferes with the flow of the game. Pressing Esc anywhere from 1-20 times a conversation is ridiculous. I'd have much preferred dialogue to be handled differently, except in special occasions. I have trouble playing DA for more than an hour or so at a time, because it just gets monotonous.



And this is from someone who loved BG2 and Planescape, so it's not an issue with not liking RPGs.

[MartinJHolm]

Riggazz15 wrote...

deathwing200 wrote...

You should try a game that's a bit more in-line with your mental development level. Like Halo.

RPG elitists are the bane of my existence- Just because someone doesnt want to spend their spare time diving into an RPG environment doesnt mean they are lesser people who dont have the brain power to process or the attention span to do so.



I work a high powered advertising brand strategy job with lots of stress that demands plenty of brain power, but when i get home id prefer to watch south park and laugh at cartoons farting then a documentary on the fall of the berlin wall or jump into my novel - does this mean i have less brain power than the alternative?


I think not

One could turn that entire arguement on its head and say that those who need immersion and intense mental stimulation in their gaming dont experience that in their real life and are therefore social misfits and probably work in Mcdonalds - Escapism is for people who need to escape?


Food for thought..

I agree the comment was uncalled for, you could have been the bigger man and let it pass instead.... well.

[Riggazz15]

bzombo wrote...

Riggazz15 wrote...

deathwing200 wrote...

You should try a game that's a bit more in-line with your mental development level. Like Halo.

RPG elitists are the bane of my existence- Just because someone doesnt want to spend their spare time diving into an RPG environment doesnt mean they are lesser people who dont have the brain power to process or the attention span to do so.



I work a high powered advertising brand strategy job with lots of stress that demands plenty of brain power, but when i get home id prefer to watch south park and laugh at cartoons farting then a documentary on the fall of the berlin wall or jump into my novel - does this mean i have less brain power than the alternative?


I think not

One could turn that entire arguement on its head and say that those who need immersion and intense mental stimulation in their gaming dont experience that in their real life and are therefore social misfits and probably work in Mcdonalds - Escapism is for people who need to escape?


Food for thought..

i think you are doing what the "elitists" are doing by insulting them back, but no matter. the game is just not for you. it doesn't mean you're stupid. it does lead me to believe you may have a short attention span. i think your profession corroborates this. my marketing experience is that you want to get your message out  as quick as you can because if you get drawn out, people lose interest. take it one step further. you want dialog to get to the point and be over with. true rpgs like dragon age are about role playing. people don't speak in short sound bytes and flashy images. they have conversations. sometimes those conversations are like talking about the weather. it's part of the game. if that's nto your cup of tea, then maybe a different game is for you.

SOrry, you missunderstood me - i was simply flipping the coin for perspective for the comment i was posting against. I love RPG's and long 'boring' dialogue. I have spent most of my time in game reading the codex

i was simply trying to insult him because he 'pantsed' me off...

I

[Riggazz15]

MartinJHolm wrote...

Riggazz15 wrote...

deathwing200 wrote...

You should try a game that's a bit more in-line with your mental development level. Like Halo.

RPG elitists are the bane of my existence- Just because someone doesnt want to spend their spare time diving into an RPG environment doesnt mean they are lesser people who dont have the brain power to process or the attention span to do so.



I work a high powered advertising brand strategy job with lots of stress that demands plenty of brain power, but when i get home id prefer to watch south park and laugh at cartoons farting then a documentary on the fall of the berlin wall or jump into my novel - does this mean i have less brain power than the alternative?


I think not

One could turn that entire arguement on its head and say that those who need immersion and intense mental stimulation in their gaming dont experience that in their real life and are therefore social misfits and probably work in Mcdonalds - Escapism is for people who need to escape?


Food for thought..

I agree the comment was uncalled for, you could have been the bigger man and let it pass instead.... well.

But that would mean i would have to get back to this stupid presentation im writing into the late, quiet hours of the night - stupid dam needy Korean clients.

[CarlSpackler]

To the OP, I'll add one more voice to the "Dialogue is a big reason I love this game crowd." Obviously there are different tastes in games, but what you call pointless and boring I call immersive and fun. So who should Bioware cater to, your tastes or mine? Obviously they should make the game they feel is the best possible use of the world and mechanics, and as it turned out for DAO its more suited to my tastes, perhaps in the future it will be yours.
Still I don't understand your general complaint, a lot of the dialogue is skippable and quest imperatives are recorded in your journal. If you are enjoying part of the game I would think you could skip dialogue as you desire to get to the questing. (Some have complained that they miss out on story if they do this, which seems to be a contradictory position in what they want/don't want.) All which to say, no I do not doze off in this game, and while I enjoy the exploring and combat I often think hmm, I wonder when the next been dialogue/decision is comming?

Modifié par CarlSpackler, 24 novembre 2009 - 07:54 .

[DarrenHollywood]

The conversations can seem to drag on sometimes. I turned on subtitles and read them. It's a nice combo since the voice gives each character more personality, but you don't have to wait as long for all of the audio to play.



In Baldur's Gate I always read ahead of the spoken dialog, but they only voiced the first couple of sentences. Playing with subtitles feels very much like it did in BG2

[ZeroMystic]

I think the point everyone is trying to make is that due to you dozing off it's clear you don't find this game very appealing. This is an RPG it's not a run in blow stuff up with magic or guns or whatever.

Actually it's the total opposite, I find the game is very appealing it's the ludicrous amount of un-needed dialog that I do not take a liking to. As I said I just skip through the dialog if it goes past 45 seconds.

However I want to pointout one main problem with that statement and that is that Dragon Age Origins is not an actual RPG at all, It is nothing more than an interactive novel with very little playability invoved.

If people really want to go down the route of true immersed RPG's then you have to bring games into this that actually has more than just 4-6 hours of actual playability to it. One such game is Summoner

Summoner is a prime example of a true Immersed 3rd person single player party based story lined RPG.

It took at least 30+ hours to actually get 3/4 of the way through it (Just like this Dragon Age Origins), and had good amounts of dialog, but was balanced with a massive ammount of playability.

Another game that is story driven isn't party based, but still took over 30+ hours to get through was Risen. Again lots and lots of dialog, but balanced with actually allowing you full playability, and was not running into a cinematic every 3 min of gameplay. And didn't need to either.

In the end, If I am going to be told to stay and watch something, go somewhere, or go do something and or talk to someone, then I should be just outright being told that to begin with It is 100% completely un-neccessary to use 15-45 min worth of dialog, needing to talk to 1-5 different people just to find that out.

No one here is going to say that, sitting through tedious long winded dialog, only to find that out one thing in the end, needs to be in there, there is simply no point, has no rreason, doesn't do a thing to and for this interactive novel, and it's a complete waste or gaming space.

This has been done countless times in this game and for what reason?

In the end Dragon Age Origins is nothing more than one big Choose your own adventure book, just like Dungeons & Dragons: Scourge Of Worlds DVD which BTW I own.

In closing, there is no point in allowing all these skills and customizations, of specializations and what not, if you cannot get enough playability out of it. Because of how much dialog is in thhis game and how little there is on playability, it is 100% pointless to allow such things such as armor, skills, or any of that.

Sorry but If I am being given the option of getting to pick skills, attributes, and anything alse customizable, then I better be allowed to use any or all of it for more than 4-6 hours, while I just sit there for 35+ hours having it do absolutely nothing at all.

Sorry but i just do not see how people think this makes any sense

Modifié par ZeroMystic, 24 novembre 2009 - 08:16 .

[JamesX]

Press "escape"

Just be sure to turn on subtitles so you know what was the last thing said.

[ZeroMystic]

Just be sure to turn on subtitles so you know what was the last thing said.

I just got done stating I skip through the dialog if it lasts longer than 45 seconds, so why the hell do I care, and why do I need to know what the last thing that said was?

All the useless dialog and dialog choices, and long winded and tedious un-needed talking, all lead to the same exact aspect in the end anyway, so there is no need fo most of it to be in there if it all comes out the same regardless of what choice you choose, so there is nothing at all in this storyline, and any dialog choice, that will effect the outcome of what happens in this game in the end anyway.

Again it is completely unnecessary to have 5-10 min of gabbing having 3-8 dialog choices off of each choice you make, that all lead up to only 1 thing once you go through it all.


And to top all that off, not one person who plays this game or here on the forum, or who reply to these types of topics s aying all the stuff they do, has been able to provide any logical and or needed reason with any actual facts on why they need all this gabbing with this many options that regardless of what you choose, only wind up with one thing being said to you in the end.

It's like being told to take out the trash.
 
Why would I ever need to be told to take the trash out 50 different ways by 13 different people, if in the end, all I am doing is taking the trash out. So you apply that to the game, because it's the same thing, you are being told to do one thing mutiple ways, by mutiple people, even though in the end you are only doing 1 thing.

And from what people have been replying with in here is that they like to be told to go do one thing 50 different ways, by multiple people because they enjoy that type of immersion from thier boss, or spouse or whatever.

Which is fine, but to someone who is normal and sane, that is completely useless and un-needed.

Modifié par ZeroMystic, 24 novembre 2009 - 08:42 .

[Suilebhain]

Some people do not want to have to read. I get that. I don't agree with it, but I get it. What I don't get is how someone can complain about fully-animated cinematic cut sequences where the NPCs actually speak in voices that are actually well-acted. It boggles my mind.



After playing in so many MMOs that were sold as MMORPGs but turned into MMOPVPFPSs by the barbarian horde, then being told by them that their game was not for me, it gives me GREAT PLEASURE to be able to say...



Sorry, Dood, you bought the wrong game!



Man, that felt good...

[Dark83]

It's realistic for people to only need one line of dialog. Look how short this conversation is.

[CarlSpackler]

ZeroMystic wrote...

And to top all that off, not one person who plays this game or here on the forum, or who reply to these types of topics s aying all the stuff they do, has been able to provide any logical and or needed reason with any actual facts on why they need all this gabbing with this many options that regardless of what you choose, only wind up with one thing being said to you in the end.

  Not that my post is any more athoratative or important than yours or any other reply on here but I'll restate some of what I posted above.  NONE of the mechanics in a game are needed.  Not the dialogue, combat, looting, anything.  Its all about what makes the game fun for the audience they're trying to target.  You do not like dialogue, I get that and empathise, I do not like shooters as a rule (not saying you do or don't this is just an observation) but I have many friends who love them, and do not love the games I love, as a general rule anyways.  It is through the dialogue that I feel gives me the amount of *fun* that I crave from a CRPG, and what you call boring and tedious is what most attracts me to DAO.  Our tastes are divergent.  I know you have replied above that no you do like dialogue you simply find this excessive, I and others do not.  It doesn't make either of us *right* but calling it uneccessary is really only true in terms of your enjoyment, not mine.  As for the *WHY* to all this gabbing as you put it, very very simple: personal preference.  Thats it, just as your personal preference would be less dialogue, I often play (as I believe I stated above) looking forward to the next cutscene where dialogue and plot furtherence is available.  The *reasonableness* of greater/lesser amounts of dialogue doesn't enter into it.  Do you enjoy it? For you the answer is no, for me its yes.  You find the dialogue inane, I find it intriguing.

[Lord_Saulot]

The dialogue is what makes games like this fun. Its a story as much as a game. It doesn't need to be justified - it simply is the type of game it is. If you don't like it, you just don't like this kind of game.

[bjdbwea]

ZeroMystic wrote...

Sorry but If I am being given the option of getting to pick skills, attributes, and anything alse customizable, then I better be allowed to use any or all of it for more than 4-6 hours, while I just sit there for 35+ hours having it do absolutely nothing at all.

Sorry but i just do not see how people think this makes any sense

Maybe it wouldn't make sense, but of course you're completely exaggerating just to hold on to your point. Neither does the game contain 35+ hours of enforced dialogue, nor is it possible to complete the rest of the game (travelling, fighting, trading) in 4-6 hours. Not even close, the somewhat repetitive combat encounters make sure of that.

ZeroMystic wrote...

And to top all that off, not one person who plays this game or here on the forum, or who reply to these types of topics s aying all the stuff they do, has been able to provide any logical and or needed reason with any actual facts on why they need all this gabbing with this many options that regardless of what you choose, only wind up with one thing being said to you in the end.

That argument is valid. I also tire of the fact that most of the answers you can choose from are purely cosmetic, leading the the same replies from NPCs. But as you should know, that is an unfortunate if understandable characteristic of most RPGs of this kind, including all BioWare games (though Mass Effect did it better).

But nothing changes the suggestion that you simply should find a game more suitable for you. Problem solved.

Modifié par bjdbwea, 24 novembre 2009 - 09:17 .

[bzombo]

ZeroMystic wrote...

Just be sure to turn on subtitles so you know what was the last thing said.

I just got done stating I skip through the dialog if it lasts longer than 45 seconds, so why the hell do I care, and why do I need to know what the last thing that said was?

All the useless dialog and dialog choices, and long winded and tedious un-needed talking, all lead to the same exact aspect in the end anyway, so there is no need fo most of it to be in there if it all comes out the same regardless of what choice you choose, so there is nothing at all in this storyline, and any dialog choice, that will effect the outcome of what happens in this game in the end anyway.

Again it is completely unnecessary to have 5-10 min of gabbing having 3-8 dialog choices off of each choice you make, that all lead up to only 1 thing once you go through it all.


And to top all that off, not one person who plays this game or here on the forum, or who reply to these types of topics s aying all the stuff they do, has been able to provide any logical and or needed reason with any actual facts on why they need all this gabbing with this many options that regardless of what you choose, only wind up with one thing being said to you in the end.

It's like being told to take out the trash.
 
Why would I ever need to be told to take the trash out 50 different ways by 13 different people, if in the end, all I am doing is taking the trash out. So you apply that to the game, because it's the same thing, you are being told to do one thing mutiple ways, by mutiple people, even though in the end you are only doing 1 thing.

And from what people have been replying with in here is that they like to be told to go do one thing 50 different ways, by multiple people because they enjoy that type of immersion from thier boss, or spouse or whatever.

Which is fine, but to someone who is normal and sane, that is completely useless and un-needed.

ugh. you are completely contradicting yourself. "let me explain. no, there is too much. let me sum up."

you: this game makes me fall asleep. (i assume you don't like it since it puts you to sleep)
everyone: game's not for you.
you: yes it is. i like dialog.
everyone: you said you don't like dialog.
you: i do! but not this dialog.
me: what! *scratches head* my head hurts now.
everyone: game's not for you.
you: it is for me! but i hate the dialog. and there's only 4-6 hours of game play. and it's a novel and not a rpg. and everything else is bad too. but i like it. but i really hate the dialog! but i like it.
everyone: huh? *all scratch heads*


enchantment?

[BeachxBit]

bzombo wrote...

you: this game makes me fall asleep. (i assume you don't like it since it puts you to sleep)
everyone: game's not for you.
you: yes it is. i like dialog.
everyone: you said you don't like dialog.
you: i do! but not this dialog.
me: what! *scratches head* my head hurts now.
everyone: game's not for you.
you: it is for me! but i hate the dialog. and there's only 4-6 hours of game play. and it's a novel and not a rpg. and everything else is bad too. but i like it. but i really hate the dialog! but i like it.
everyone: huh? *all scratch heads*

enchantment?

LOL

[Ghandorian]

actually I could not get very far into NWN without feeling suddenly sleepy. I chalked it up to the music score reminding me of and Elevator ride.



No problems in dao though. It really gets me going with action and then slows down to a nice gait with dialog only to double the action on the next adventure!

[T0rin3]

The escape key is your friend.

[Dark83]

Sometimes, I play L4D2 instead when my friends want to. Eventually, I wish I had fireballs, and pause. <_<

[Adnihilis]

It's a good game. It DOES feel like there is more dialog than combat.



It'd be nice if they were at least equal to each other rather than focusing on one or the other. When people like us say we like the game, we LIKE that it isn't a superficial story; we like the combat system; we like the tone of the game; we like the characters; we like the environments; we like the spells; etc.



I don't lack the attention span to read a ton of text. On the contrary: I read a lot of books. I watch a ton of subtitled foreign and Criterion films. However, in playing a game, there should be at the very least an equal emphasis on playing the game as in "reading the game." After all, if I simply wanted to read, I'd pick up a book. If I simply wanted to watch scenes, I'd watch a movie. When I want to play a game, I want to PLAY a game.



Dialog in a game is good; it drives the story and gives purpose to why our character does what he or she does. It's motivation, and it SHOULD be fleshed out. That said, dialog shouldn't overshadow actual PLAY-time. It's there to provide impetus for the gameplay and action.



What we're saying is some dialog is good. Too little or too much isn't. The other elements to the game are pretty good. Even the dialog is well written and well acted. It just becomes a bit excessive. Don't go to the extreme and say we don't like any. We do, just in moderation.



I think Morrowind was a good example of a happy balance. And frankly, the story in DAO isn't all that creative. While better than that of the majority of other video games, it doesn't hold a candle to a good book or film. It's merely decent...for a video game.

[Dex1701]

Dialog is good.

[ZeroMystic]

The dialogue is what makes games like this fun.

I said it before and I will continue to say it,
Dialog in a game is in fact needed I don't argue that fact, but this game has simply beyond way too much dialog in it.
Instead of adding in more freedom and action aspect like a true RPG should have, they took up at least 3/4 of the actual game play with, long winded and 100% un-needed talking.
Let me bring up a few examples,
For instance at teh castle in the begining when you are getting your dog,
You get stopped by this guy who tells you your mother is insisting you go get your dog. now somehow that turns into something totally and completely unrelated where he starts asking you about the Grey Warden Asking for him..

What the hell does getting your dog have anything what so ever to do with a Grey Warden and How the hell does the dialog change from a dog, to a Grey Warden.

Since I wond up not being able to do anything else at all until I go get my dog from the kitchen then this conversation regardless should go exactly like this and go this fast:

This is all that is needed in this
Walking (Cinematic):

Hey your mother insists that you are to go get your dog from the kitchen you do nto have a choice about this, and this is not up for discussion and i cannot say anything further, so lets go...

End cinematic..

As you can clearly see the objective has nothing in it whatsoever that warrants putting any more talking and or dialog choices in it.

But instead you wind up with nothing but 5 min of useless and un-needed dialog and dialog options, that have about 15-19 other completely un-needed dialog choices that branch off of this, and then turn the original objective into something completely un-related. And when it's over I still cannot do anything else until I get to the kitchen and get my dog, and even when i get there, I wind up running into more un-needed dialog. I am there to get my dog and nothing else...I do not need to read 5-10 more min of dialog about how the kitchen servants are not getting along with the head ktchen person because that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with me getting my dog, so again that is 100% usless dialog and it has nothing to do with my task...so again the objective gets lost, and I still cannot do anything else until I get my dog...

This whole interactive novel is filled with way, way, way, too many of these un-necessary inconsitencies, and this is just one example.

No one here is seriously going to say that anything else other than this for this situation is needed:

Hey your mother insists that you are to go get your dog from the kitchen you do nto have a choice about this, and this is not up for discussion and I cannot say anything further, so lets go...

If anyone thinks that anything other than what i put is needed and that they see nothing wrong with changing the subject into something totally un-releated is perfectly  normal, really needs some severe help.

Modifié par ZeroMystic, 24 novembre 2009 - 10:23 .

[SheffSteel]

ZeroMystic wrote...

(a lot of stuff, followed by)
Sorry but i just do not see how people think this makes any sense

I am in complete agreement with your final sentence. What you say makes no sense. You're wrong about the conversations. You make choices that have consequences.

Modifié par SheffSteel, 24 novembre 2009 - 10:25 .

[Sloth Of Doom]

SheffSteel wrote...

ZeroMystic wrote...

(a lot of stuff, followed by)
Sorry but i just do not see how people think this makes any sense

I am in complete agreement with your final sentence. What you say makes no sense. You're wrong about the conversations. You make choices that have consequences.

Heh, post of the day so far.