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[Janus Prospero]

I've always felt that the classes in ME2 were put together very well. The power load outs for the hybrid classes, for example, are very complimentary, and there is actually some deep theorycrafting that can be done for a lot of builds. In fact, the Soldier class, which is seen by many as somewhat flavorless compared to the more power-based classes, can arguably gain the most through theorycrafting. This is exhibited in this old thread where the ME2 evolutions of Adrenaline Rush are broken down and analyzed to determine which one works best with certain play styles.

After playing the ME3 demo, however, I noticed that they had tweaked the stats for the 4th level Adrenaline Rush evolution somewhat and was curious to see how things have changed. First, let me go into the formulas I used. I will leave out the damage bonus from ammo powers to simplify things.

-- .- ... ... / . ..-. ..-. . -.-. - / ...—

We start with our two known base values.
d = time dilation
b = bonus damage

Time Speed  :  (1 - d)
With time dilation d, we can determine the speed that time passes within the game. So if we were to have 30% time dilation, everything moves at (1 – 0.3) = 0.7 => 70% Speed.

Damage per Shot  :  (1 +
Damage per shot under AR is fairly simple formula. We are merely adding the damage bonus % to the base damage.  If we get a 50% damage bonus , then each bullet does (1 + 0.5) = 1.5 => 150% damage. The higher this stat, the better the evolution is for single shot long delay weapons like the Widow, Mantis, or Claymore. Arguably it is also beneficial to weapons with limited ammo like the Mattock as it stretches your ammo further.

Damage in Player Time   :  (1 + * (1 - d)
Damage relative to real-life player time is probably the most important formula for fast firing weapons. If AR didn’t grant a damage bonus, then even though things would take the same amount of time to die in in-game universe time, everything would appear to die very slowly in player time. As far as your damage output is concerned, the bonus damage from AR is working with you, the time slow down is working against you, and this formula determines which one comes out ontop.

Expected Damage Bonus  :  [1 / (1 - d)] - 1
Expected damage bonus based on dilation is a formula I derived to evaluate how good the damage is relative to real time. It assumes that damage relative to real time = 100%, and then determines what the damage bonus should be to achieve that. For example, if time dilation was 50%, we would need the damage bonus to be [1 / (1 – 0.5)] – 1 = 1 => 100% (twice base damage) in order to compensate for the fact that automatic and semi-automatic weapons are firing slower.

-- .- ... ... / . ..-. ..-. . -.-. - / ...--

Before we move onto the ME3 adrenaline rush evolutions, let’s look back at the ME2 evolutions.

ME2 Hardened
Dilation: 50%
Time Speed: 50%
Damage Bonus: 100%
Expected Damage Bonus: 100%
Damage per Shot: 200%
Damage in Player Time: 100%

ME2 Heightened
Dilation: 70%
Time Speed: 30%
Damage Bonus: 140%
Expected Damage Bonus: 233.33%
Damage per Shot: 240%
Damage in Player Time: 72%

Right away you can see that Hardened benefits fast firing weapons. In our ideal world Expected Damage Bonus = Damage Bonus = 100%. And that holds true here. Time is going half as slow, so to compensate things are going half as fast. In order for Heightening AR to be as good for fast firing weapons, though, it would have to endow a 233.33% damage bonus. But it doesn’t. It only provides a 140% damage bonus, effectively gimping automatic weapons because even though each bullet does more damage you are getting off less shots, and the damage bonus does not compensate enough for that. However, if you are using a weapon with a long reload such that you are only going to get off one shot regardless of time dilation (aka the Widow), Heightened is king as it better enables you to get off one shot kills.

-- .- ... ... / . ..-. ..-. . -.-. - / ...—

Now, onto the ME3 versions!

ME3 Hardened
Dilation: 30%
Time Speed: 70%
Damage Bonus: 50%
Expected Damage Bonus: 42.86%
Damage per Shot: 150%
Damage in Player Time: 105%

ME3 Heightened
Dilation: 45%
Time Speed: 55%
Damage Bonus: 75%
Expected Damage Bonus: 81.82%
Damage per Shot: 175%
Damage in Player Time: 96.25%


The first thing I noticed is that the bonuses are much smaller. Time dilation is much lower: 30/45% as opposed to the 50/70% found in ME2. However, after I crunched the numbers, I noticed some interesting stuff. First, Hardened AR does 105% damage relative to player time, which is better than our “best case” of 100%. This makes Hardened AR awesome for rapid fire weapons as you’re not only getting bonus damage in game time, but also in real time as well.

As expected, Heightened gives you more damage per shot in ME3 as well. BUT, the gap between the damage in player time between the evolutions is much slimmer in ME3. So while Heightened is still going to be best for your one shot kills, you could in theory justify taking Heightened for more time to line up your shots or for ammo efficiency and not worry about gimping your rapid fire damage too much.

-- .- ... ... / . ..-. ..-. . -.-. - / ...—

Anyway, kudos to anyone who read this whole thing and 100% bonus to kudos received for anyone who read it and understood it. I know a lot of you are already planning your builds ahead of time, and thought that this info might help some of you out.

Modifié par Janus Prospero, 17 février 2012 - 09:11 .

[eye basher]

Adrenaline Rush has saved my ass in multiplayer more times that i can count.

[Janus Prospero]

eye basher wrote...

Adrenaline Rush has saved my ass in multiplayer more times that i can count.

Of course in multiplayer there is no time dilation, so the 4th evolution is just a choice between more damage or damage resistance.

[Veovim]

Janus Prospero wrote...

Time Speed  :  (1 - d)
With time dilation d, we can determine the speed that time passes within the game. So if we were to have 30% time dilation, everything moves at (1 – 0.3) = 0.6 => 60% Speed.

-- .- ... ... / . ..-. ..-. . -.-. - / ...—

Now, onto the ME3 versions!

ME3 Hardened
Dilation: 30%
Time Speed: 70%
Damage Bonus: 50%
Expected Damage Bonus: 42.86%
Damage per Shot: 150%
Damage in Player Time: 105%

ME3 Heightened
Dilation: 45%
Time Speed: 55%
Damage Bonus: 75%
Expected Damage Bonus: 81.82%
Damage per Shot: 175%
Damage in Player Time: 96.25%

As expected, Heightened gives you more damage per shot in ME3 as well. BUT, the gap between the damage in player time between the evolutions is much slimmer in ME3. So while Heightened is still going to be best for your one shot kills, you could in theory justify taking Heightened for more time to line up your shots or for ammo efficiency and not worry about gimping your rapid fire damage too much.

You might want to fix that first bit I quoted.  The rest of the math is good, though

One thing you didn't touch on is that slowing time also means that you take less damage by virtue of the enemy firing fewer shots.  Hardened would effectively give you 1 - 0.7 * 0.75 = 0.475 = 47.5% damage reduction, while heightened would give you 45% damage reduction.  As with damage rate, heightened is pretty close, so I would have to agree with your assessment that the choice between hardened or heightened depends on whether you want the accuracy bonus and ammo efficiency vs. slightly better real time damage and protection.

As an aside, time dilation won't reduce the number of shots enemies fire if they're using high damage, low magazine size weapons.  Increasing dilation might give you the extra reaction time needed to dodge into cover and out of a sniper's line of sight, but that's not really quantifiable.

[Janus Prospero]

Veovim wrote...

Janus Prospero wrote...

Time Speed  :  (1 - d)
With time dilation d, we can determine the speed that time passes within the game. So if we were to have 30% time dilation, everything moves at (1 – 0.3) = 0.6 => 60% Speed.

You might want to fix that first bit I quoted.  The rest of the math is good, though

Whoops! Thanks for catching that.

I R ADD AND SUBTRACT GUD!

[jasonxxsatanna]

So in your calculations , that means a cc soldier , who would take more risk . . . is better off with Hardened. . .?

[Janus Prospero]

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

So in your calculations , that means a cc soldier , who would take more risk . . . is better off with Hardened. . .?

CC Soldier?

[jasonxxsatanna]

Janus Prospero wrote...

jasonxxsatanna wrote...

So in your calculations , that means a cc soldier , who would take more risk . . . is better off with Hardened. . .?

CC Soldier?

sorry left out the q. . .
CQC = close quarters combat. . . .

[Janus Prospero]

In general, I'd say yes. But depending on what weapon you use, you could justify either. A slow shotgun like the Claymore could benefit more from Heightened's damage boost and increased dilation for making those valuable shots count. Also, as Veovin points out, the increased dilation means that you are getting shot at less in game time.

If you're going to focus on melee or maybe use a weapon that lets you get off several shots, then Hardened is probably the way to go.

[jasonxxsatanna]

Janus Prospero wrote...

In general, I'd say yes. But depending on what weapon you use, you could justify either. A slow shotgun like the Claymore could benefit more from Heightened's damage boost and increased dilation for making those valuable shots count. Also, as Veovin points out, the increased dilation means that you are getting shot at less in game time.

If you're going to focus on melee or maybe use a weapon that lets you get off several shots, then Hardened is probably the way to go.

 


ok . . .In ME2 I most of the time went hardened , in close with the revvy . . .to rip up enemies