252 réponses à ce sujet

[aries1001]

You don't need to buy all the ME3 related peripherals such as mouse, keyboard, headset etc. However, if people are getting a new computer anyway, they might buy them. And the From Dust DLC on day 0 (or 1) will hopefully be free with every new purchase of the game....

I personally have no intention on buying figurines of Liara or other -ehm- persons? from ME3 or the ME universe. But some do, like some collect figurines from Star Trek. And as I recall, many Bioware fans has kept asking Bioware to make either figurines of persons in the universe, plushies of animals (mostly in the Dragon Age universe, though) or drivable Mako model or a model of the Normandy. I wonder if Bioware has ever thought of contacting Lego, a Danish firm, in order to get Lego to make a LEGO version of the Normandy. Could be a hit.

Bioware then delivers, and people are still sort of - ehm - not happy. Probably because Bioware/EA are doing what Friedmann, Milton, the economist, called externalites. This is when people who have money can buy their way into things not offered to other people, for example buy 4 figurines for US dollar 80, and then get to unlock random dlc this way. Or a better example would be, buy the iPhone game and get to experience a better or changed game in the single player or multiplayer game. This actually excludes people (like me) who doesn't have an iPhone to get this game that maybe will affect the main game.

As for who started it, it is easy to pinpoint: Black Isle/Interplay started it a long time ago (10-12 years ago maybe) when they released for free a little thing called Trials of the Luremaster. You could only get it online, or by disc in a computer magazine (rememener those?) and thus the first dlc was born. And way back when Neverwinter Nights came out, Bioware released Premium Modules for NWN. You could also only get them as dlc and you also had to pay for them. However, each module lasted for about 10-15 hours and would be what? between 8-15 US dollars? Plus the Premium Modules helped to pay for the many patches for this game. People found this reasonably as do I.

Bethesda then did released some dlcs for free for Morrowind, and then in 2006, Oblivion came out.
And much has been said about the horse armor for this game, but I think Bethesda actually sold about
2-3 million horse armours in Oblivion. As for buying item packs and clothes packs, I do think or believe that maybe it was Guild Wars that did this first. Guild Wars is an online game that doesn't cost anything to play at all, unless you want say better items or better armour or better anything really.

I remember some uproar some years ago because EA tried to sell better bullets or better guns to people in one of their games; Battlefield 1 or 2, I think it was? However, this stopped after people complained.
And Call of Duty, at least the MP-mode, has always had this part where you for dollars could buy extra maps or better equipment.

As said, however, no-one is forcing anyone to buy the artbook or the Liara-figurine or the keyboard etc. to play the game. It does sound, though, that if play the iPhone game, the main game might change. But then again, no-one is forcing you to buy this either. I'll probably buy the ME3 game at some point - not now, since I'm currently hunting for a job and have very little money to buy games.

[TheRevanchist]

Techlology wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Thank you. I doubt it will convince anyone but I am tired of people comaplaining based on misinformation and rumour. Better to complain about stuff that's actually happening.

What, the horrible quality of the overall presetation based on the demo running only a month-old build? And the lack of any official response to the plethora of problems encountered there in?

This to the 9 millionth power?

[AlanC9]

aries1001 wrote...
As for who started it, it is easy to pinpoint: Black Isle/Interplay started it a long time ago (10-12 years ago maybe) when they released for free a little thing called Trials of the Luremaster. You could only get it online, or by disc in a computer magazine (rememener those?) and thus the first dlc was born.

Actually, I think the award goes to Wing Commander: Secret Ops back in August 1998.

[ReD BaKen9]

This one is quite sad that he does not have the right amount of credits to purchase these.

[Ricvenart]

Techlology wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Thank you. I doubt it will convince anyone but I am tired of people comaplaining based on misinformation and rumour. Better to complain about stuff that's actually happening.

What, the horrible quality of the overall presetation based on the demo running only a month-old build? And the lack of any official response to the plethora of problems encountered there in?

Really? What forums have you been on? In the multiplayer section several devs have made official responses to actual problems and what people just percieve as problems. The same goes for SP too although I'm not sure how much they've covered, frankly I saw little wrong with my time in the SP demo but animations, holstering, content and some bugs have had a reply to them from someone.

Stanley Woo even came in this thread to gave a personal and professional answer on the percieved problem of this DLC system, even if he didn't reply to me and I don't entire agree with it, I still respect that he's done that.

Go look at the multiplayer yourself, notice the sticky topic with a clear label at the top mentioning the random packs system, check the 100 complaint topics where some dev has been in to weigh in and give a personal answer, even asking for more information on what has been happening when it shouldn't, but because that isn't an answer of "here take what you want, when you want it." people repeatedly claim they get nothing out of it and get the same item over and over with no benefit. Or one bug which again gets multiple new topics and have been told it has been fixed already in the final build.

Just because you don't want to see the answer or they aren't the ones you want doesn't mean they haven't been replied too. And in some cases they simply can't give a straight answers due to spoilers.

[Lucy Glitter]

Disgusting.

What has happened to a once very great company? EA has. 

Even their story quality has gone down the drain due to time constraints and pressue to make their games mainstream. Worst decision ever made, and everyone knew this was going to happen to BW when they joined EA. 

[Massefeckt]

I thought this was the new ME3 keyboard?

img515.imageshack.us/img515/9766/me3keyboard.jpg

[Travie]

Pre-release and day 1 DLC is good for companies and bad for consumers.

Sometimes what is good for companies = what is good for consumers in the long run, because they end up having the money to design more content... unfortunately that equation rarely pans out.

If a game makes more money than expected (or any product makes more than expected for that matter) that company is much more likely to take that as profit (pay themselves more, stockholders more, etc) then put that money back into the game/product/next product.

Anyone that has spent significant time in business can tell you this.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

So anyone on this thread inadequate  enough to buy it all.

[TheRevanchist]

Ricvenart wrote...

Techlology wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Thank you. I doubt it will convince anyone but I am tired of people comaplaining based on misinformation and rumour. Better to complain about stuff that's actually happening.

What, the horrible quality of the overall presetation based on the demo running only a month-old build? And the lack of any official response to the plethora of problems encountered there in?

Really? What forums have you been on? In the multiplayer section several devs have made official responses to actual problems and what people just percieve as problems. The same goes for SP too although I'm not sure how much they've covered, frankly I saw little wrong with my time in the SP demo but animations, holstering, content and some bugs have had a reply to them from someone.

Stanley Woo even came in this thread to gave a personal and professional answer on the percieved problem of this DLC system, even if he didn't reply to me and I don't entire agree with it, I still respect that he's done that.

Go look at the multiplayer yourself, notice the sticky topic with a clear label at the top mentioning the random packs system, check the 100 complaint topics where some dev has been in to weigh in and give a personal answer, even asking for more information on what has been happening when it shouldn't, but because that isn't an answer of "here take what you want, when you want it." people repeatedly claim they get nothing out of it and get the same item over and over with no benefit. Or one bug which again gets multiple new topics and have been told it has been fixed already in the final build.

Just because you don't want to see the answer or they aren't the ones you want doesn't mean they haven't been replied too. And in some cases they simply can't give a straight answers due to spoilers.

I personally find both aspects unimpressive in the slightest. One is just a typical Horde Mode that every game has to have tacked onto it these days. The SP is just a rushed half ass thing they threw togeather to show off their awsome esplosions.

[AlanC9]

So you've already played the SP, kyle?

Since you didn't like it, can I have your copy?

[TheRevanchist]

I was clearly talking about the demo...it was nothing short of a butcherd rush job to show us lots of esplosions. lacking any context or exposition as to what the open scene is even about, which honestly serves no purpose at all, only way it would have made less sense was if the demo started the moment you take control. The SP combat is nothing all that impressive when compared to ME2, and since there was nothing else advertised in that entire demo thats really all I comment on. But I can say that their refusal to showcase the so called "RPG elements" is rather discourageing. It was my impression that a demo was to showcase how a game is going to be. This demo does not represent that definition.

[littlezack]

kylecouch wrote...

. But I can say that their refusal to showcase the so called "RPG elements" is rather discourageing.

While I do wish they had a workbench somewhere in there, you get to completely experiment with all the new powers and get a great feel for how the new system works and new builds you can go for. Considering that one of the BIGGEST complaints people had about ME2 was the lack of choice with skills, showing that the skill trees allow for even more customization than ME1 did is no small thing.

[JaegerBane]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Filament wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Filament wrote...
I understand the whole DLC separate budget yadda yadda, but I have to wonder if they couldn't use that excuse to make six separate day one DLCs and make the final product cost over $100 for the super special true fan edition.

Let's say they did. What of it?

I think they would then be decried as taking the nickel and diming scheme to the absurd extreme no one thought it would ever go.

And yet, people already say that of us and/or EA and/or the gaming industry. People said that about horse armour, yet people bought it in droves. People said that about map packs in FPS's, yet those are extremely popular. People said that about hats in TF2, yet people couldn't get enough of them. If it works and people are happy with the stuff they do purchase, no amount of arguing against the practice or the price is going to sound very convincing, is it?

Stan, seriously, I respect your position and all, but lets not make things personal. I only bought the Horse Armour because I liked the look of the Steel Plate, ok? I didn't realise it would suck donkey balls. Everyone was young and stupid once :P:P

[PlumPaul93]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Disgusting.

What has happened to a once very great company? EA has. 

Even their story quality has gone down the drain due to time constraints and pressue to make their games mainstream. Worst decision ever made, and everyone knew this was going to happen to BW when they joined EA. 

This.

[TheRevanchist]

littlezack wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

. But I can say that their refusal to showcase the so called "RPG elements" is rather discourageing.

While I do wish they had a workbench somewhere in there, you get to completely experiment with all the new powers and get a great feel for how the new system works and new builds you can go for. Considering that one of the BIGGEST complaints people had about ME2 was the lack of choice with skills, showing that the skill trees allow for even more customization than ME1 did is no small thing.

I couldn't care less about power evolution personally. Those have never meant anything to me anyway. What I do care about is the automated dialogue and the poor handleing of story consistency. Again using this demo as a showcase of how the game will be...it shows to me that story and conversation have taken a distent backseat to pew pews and what % dmg a Singularity does to X defence.  

[littlezack]

kylecouch wrote...

littlezack wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

. But I can say that their refusal to showcase the so called "RPG elements" is rather discourageing.

While I do wish they had a workbench somewhere in there, you get to completely experiment with all the new powers and get a great feel for how the new system works and new builds you can go for. Considering that one of the BIGGEST complaints people had about ME2 was the lack of choice with skills, showing that the skill trees allow for even more customization than ME1 did is no small thing.

I couldn't care less about power evolution personally. Those have never meant anything to me anyway. What I do care about is the automated dialogue and the poor handleing of story consistency. Again using this demo as a showcase of how the game will be...it shows to me that story and conversation have taken a distent backseat to pew pews and what % dmg a Singularity does to X defence.  

The fact that you don't care about doesn't erase the fact that it's RPG element that was worked on improved at the behest of fans. And judging the game's story from a demo is a bit premature. If they had shown more of the story, people would probably be complaining about spoilers, which I very distinctly remember them doing prior to ME2s release. Incessently.

[TheRevanchist]

JaegerBane wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Filament wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Filament wrote...
I understand the whole DLC separate budget yadda yadda, but I have to wonder if they couldn't use that excuse to make six separate day one DLCs and make the final product cost over $100 for the super special true fan edition.

Let's say they did. What of it?

I think they would then be decried as taking the nickel and diming scheme to the absurd extreme no one thought it would ever go.

And yet, people already say that of us and/or EA and/or the gaming industry. People said that about horse armour, yet people bought it in droves. People said that about map packs in FPS's, yet those are extremely popular. People said that about hats in TF2, yet people couldn't get enough of them. If it works and people are happy with the stuff they do purchase, no amount of arguing against the practice or the price is going to sound very convincing, is it?

Stan, seriously, I respect your position and all, but lets not make things personal. I only bought the Horse Armour because I liked the look of the Steel Plate, ok? I didn't realise it would suck donkey balls. Everyone was young and stupid once :P:P

Honestly...thats exactly why I got the Horse Armor...

[TheRevanchist]

littlezack wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

littlezack wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

. But I can say that their refusal to showcase the so called "RPG elements" is rather discourageing.

While I do wish they had a workbench somewhere in there, you get to completely experiment with all the new powers and get a great feel for how the new system works and new builds you can go for. Considering that one of the BIGGEST complaints people had about ME2 was the lack of choice with skills, showing that the skill trees allow for even more customization than ME1 did is no small thing.

I couldn't care less about power evolution personally. Those have never meant anything to me anyway. What I do care about is the automated dialogue and the poor handleing of story consistency. Again using this demo as a showcase of how the game will be...it shows to me that story and conversation have taken a distent backseat to pew pews and what % dmg a Singularity does to X defence.  

The fact that you don't care about doesn't erase the fact that it's RPG element that was worked on improved at the behest of fans. And judging the game's story from a demo is a bit premature. If they had shown more of the story, people would probably be complaining about spoilers, which I very distinctly remember them doing prior to ME2s release. Incessently.

I am not saying working on power evolution is bad...just that I don't personally care. But considering Chris told us here that this is the final opening of the game...it is very disheartning to see this opening handled so poorly. That thread has talked to death and back all the things wrong with it, and since Chris has told us thats how it is, those of us there are displeased. But I digress.

I understand people wanted that dealt with and I'm glad they did. We do not however really get to see anything outside of the mediocre MP aspect of it.

[littlezack]

Actually, from what I've heard, the MP is being surprisingly well received. Not my cup of tea, though, I'll admit.

[TheRevanchist]

littlezack wrote...

Actually, from what I've heard, the MP is being surprisingly well received. Not my cup of tea, though, I'll admit.

To be perfectly honest...it really ISN'T "bad" per se...just very...generic...Horde Mode is always the default slap on at the last minute feature to most games, so it always has a bad taste in my mouth. It's fun for a few matchs...but after that I personally get bored. Horde Mode just does not have the fun actual Co-op Missions would have had I think, which is what I was hoping it would be. Like missions with actual story behind them, like UNC missions or something.

But I won't lie...I've been waiting for a ME themed controller for my Xbox FOREVER! glad I can finally buy one!

[element eater]

its realy sad seeing this.

what i hate most though is the exclusivity of it all why limit a character to the ce and not just sell it on its own aswell(assuming they arent going to)

why release promotional dlc knowing full well it will be limited to only one nation and giving others nothing to make up for it. Why make pre-order dlc promotion and ce in UK exclusive to one retail group to ensure we get ripped off. 

i dont see why they cant make alot of this stuff timed exclusives so it can eventualy be obtained by everyone later on

Modifié par element eater, 20 février 2012 - 08:51 .

[AlanC9]

kylecouch wrote...

I was clearly talking about the demo...it was nothing short of a butcherd rush job to show us lots of esplosions.

I can only respond to the posts people actually write, not what they thought they meant. 

And your post makes even less sense if you were only talking about the demo. Nothing about the demo was "rushed" any more than the main game is rushed. If you want to say that they should have excerpted different scenes for the demo or that the game shouldn't immediately open with the Reaper attack, that's a different argument.

[TheRevanchist]

AlanC9 wrote...

kylecouch wrote...

I was clearly talking about the demo...it was nothing short of a butcherd rush job to show us lots of esplosions.

I can only respond to the posts people actually write, not what they thought they meant. 

And your post makes even less sense if you were only talking about the demo. Nothing about the demo was "rushed" any more than the main game is rushed. If you want to say that they should have excerpted different scenes for the demo or that the game shouldn't immediately open with the Reaper attack, that's a different argument.

Thats exactly what I'm saying...the game should not be rushed so quickly to just get to Reapers...and we know this isn't just with the demo as Chris has already told us this is the finished product.

[MnMH]

Gatt9 wrote...

I guess I explained myself badly.

A consumer looks at a video game and decides whether or not he wants to purchase it,  he determines if the potential entertainment he will get from purchasing it is of sufficient value for the money he spends.

No amount of DLC is going to encourage him to buy it,  no one looks at a game on a shelf and thinks "Nah,  there's no Day 1 DLC I can spend more money to get,  no sale".  The presense of DLC does not add value to the product for the consumer.

But what can,  and judging from the responses here and elsewhere,  do think "Nah,  that game has Day 1 DLC,  I'd be spending $60 for a partial game,  and then I have to spend more when I get home to get the rest".

Day 1 DLC doesn't add value,  but it does subtract it,  because it telegraphs to the consumer that they're not buying the full product but paying the price of the full game.

To put it another way,  if Bioware tried putting the game on the shelf at $90 or $100,  sales would be harmed.  But that's exactly what they're doing,  making people pay $80 at the register for the full game (Collector's Edition) and then nailing them for another $10 for Day 1 DLC to get the full game.

Long term,  the plan is going to do them irreperable harm.  Especially since some number of people are going to find out at the register or on first launch of the game that they're required to pay another $10 for the full game they thought they were already getting.

At some point,  some not insignificant number of consumers will see EA/Bioware products as having less value/dollar.  Entirely because the consumers will learn that they're not spending $60-$80 for the game,  they're going to be spending more.

Recent studies have shown,  the majority of console gamers buy used or borrow.  If people are already so concerned about spending $60 for the game,  increasing the cost to them isn't going to entice them,  it's going to drive them away.

DLC after Day 1 generally seems to be viewed as Expansion packs,  especially when presented like LotSB where it has no bearing on the full game.  Day 1 DLC,  OTOH,  is viewed as a portion of the full game because it's present as soon as the disc hits the drive.  Doesn't matter what the defense is,  average customers neither know about nor care about development cycles,  and TBH educated consumers know you don't get to $870 worth of Day 1 DLC without having been planning that.

The value of the game is the game and the cost to be able to play the full game.  The full game is whatever is present on the day of release.

QFT.