252 réponses à ce sujet

[Stanley Woo]

Dionkey wrote...
Stan, in all honesty, do you just agree with everything BioWare and EA does because it's your job, or because you have an undying loyalty to them? 

Hey, Dionkey, "in all honesty" it's not my job to agree with every BioWare and EA do, nor is my loyalty to my employer and parent company undying. I just have a greater insight into the business and game development, and I have a very healthy respect for and skepticism of marketing messages and my own feelings towards consumerism.

I have learned that at some point, the money I would have to spend on a given thing is not worth the value I would derive from that thing. For example, I personally would not purchase an action figure just to get bonus content for free. I would, however, buy an action figure for a reasonable price (because I happen to like action figures) and feel good about getting bonus content for free. I would not hold it against anyone else who thinks differently than me or anyone who places a different value on such content. Which is why I've been very free in encouraging people who don't see this as being worth the cost, to not purchase the products they're bound to. Because the dithering between "you should be ashamed of yourself for making this so expensive for me!" and "but I waaaaaaaant it!" is unproductive and, dare I say it, irresponsible. Take ownership of your own values and purchasing decisions, because all people do when they complain about the price but still demonstrate just how much they want the content is to show marketing that their plan works.

[Stanley Woo]

Filament wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Filament wrote...
I understand the whole DLC separate budget yadda yadda, but I have to wonder if they couldn't use that excuse to make six separate day one DLCs and make the final product cost over $100 for the super special true fan edition.

Let's say they did. What of it?

I think they would then be decried as taking the nickel and diming scheme to the absurd extreme no one thought it would ever go.

And yet, people already say that of us and/or EA and/or the gaming industry. People said that about horse armour, yet people bought it in droves. People said that about map packs in FPS's, yet those are extremely popular. People said that about hats in TF2, yet people couldn't get enough of them. If it works and people are happy with the stuff they do purchase, no amount of arguing against the practice or the price is going to sound very convincing, is it?

[G3rman]

Completionists sign themselves up for empty wallets if their addiction stretches to DLC. If you don't want to spend the money fix yourself from wanting the DLC.

[littlezack]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Dionkey wrote...
Stan, in all honesty, do you just agree with everything BioWare and EA does because it's your job, or because you have an undying loyalty to them? 

Hey, Dionkey, "in all honesty" it's not my job to agree with every BioWare and EA do, nor is my loyalty to my employer and parent company undying. I just have a greater insight into the business and game development, and I have a very healthy respect for and skepticism of marketing messages and my own feelings towards consumerism.

I have learned that at some point, the money I would have to spend on a given thing is not worth the value I would derive from that thing. For example, I personally would not purchase an action figure just to get bonus content for free. I would, however, buy an action figure for a reasonable price (because I happen to like action figures) and feel good about getting bonus content for free. I would not hold it against anyone else who thinks differently than me or anyone who places a different value on such content. Which is why I've been very free in encouraging people who don't see this as being worth the cost, to not purchase the products they're bound to. Because the dithering between "you should be ashamed of yourself for making this so expensive for me!" and "but I waaaaaaaant it!" is unproductive and, dare I say it, irresponsible. Take ownership of your own values and purchasing decisions, because all people do when they complain about the price but still demonstrate just how much they want the content is to show marketing that their plan works.

God, thank you. This, exactly.

If DLC didn't sell well, companies would stop making it.

[littlezack]

Filament wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

If it works and people are happy with the stuff they do purchase, no amount of arguing against the practice or the price is going to sound very convincing, is it?

I suppose it wouldn't be very convincing to the corporate machine, no.

It certainly wouldn't make me individually very happy, and if I'm already disinclined to shell out $80, you can imagine the likelihood of me paying over $100. If other customers want to pay that, more power to them. I'm just letting it be known that such a course could make you lose at least one customer as well.

When you get right down to it, there's very little a company - especially a game company - can do to please everyone. It's good for you to voice opinions, but there's always going to be someone with the actions you take. Feedback is one thing, and it's a good idea for a company to take into consideration, but at the end of the day, the best way to tell what works and doesn't work is by what people paid money for. And people pay money for DLC, like it or not.

[JaHawk]

This is quite unfair. The Razer stuff all comes with the same DLC, as does the Art of the Mass Effect Universe book & the action figures & Bishoujo statues include recruitment packs which contain stuff already unlockable within the game without the use of a DLC code.

If you don't like it, DON'T BUY IT!

[Dovahzaan]

Stanley Woo wrote...

And yet, people already say that of us and/or EA and/or the gaming industry. People said that about horse armour, yet people bought it in droves. People said that about map packs in FPS's, yet those are extremely popular. People said that about hats in TF2, yet people couldn't get enough of them. If it works and people are happy with the stuff they do purchase, no amount of arguing against the practice or the price is going to sound very convincing, is it?

So, if people are stupid enough and buy all this sh.it, why don't we make money out of it? And I can tell you, that I'm not happy with it.

CD Projekt gives us DLC for free.
And lol at the "I don't have to agree with EA" statement.

Modifié par Dovahzaan, 18 février 2012 - 11:08 .

[Cucobr]

$59.99 for the Mass Effect 3 controller - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$209.99 for the Chimera 5.1 Headset - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$34.99 for the Mousepad - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$79.99 for the Messenger Bag - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$24.99 for the iPhone case - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$79.99 for the Mouse - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$139.99 for the Keyboard - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup


----------------

do you really... i mean... do you think... buy 7 products to obtain the same item in-game?
W
T
F

...nevermid.

[Dionkey]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Dionkey wrote...
Stan, in all honesty, do you just agree with everything BioWare and EA does because it's your job, or because you have an undying loyalty to them? 

Hey, Dionkey, "in all honesty" it's not my job to agree with every BioWare and EA do, nor is my loyalty to my employer and parent company undying. I just have a greater insight into the business and game development, and I have a very healthy respect for and skepticism of marketing messages and my own feelings towards consumerism.

I have learned that at some point, the money I would have to spend on a given thing is not worth the value I would derive from that thing. For example, I personally would not purchase an action figure just to get bonus content for free. I would, however, buy an action figure for a reasonable price (because I happen to like action figures) and feel good about getting bonus content for free. I would not hold it against anyone else who thinks differently than me or anyone who places a different value on such content. Which is why I've been very free in encouraging people who don't see this as being worth the cost, to not purchase the products they're bound to. Because the dithering between "you should be ashamed of yourself for making this so expensive for me!" and "but I waaaaaaaant it!" is unproductive and, dare I say it, irresponsible. Take ownership of your own values and purchasing decisions, because all people do when they complain about the price but still demonstrate just how much they want the content is to show marketing that their plan works.

The issue is not about having the choice to purchase these figures or not, the fundamental problem stems from the fact that ME3 isn't even out yet, and they already produced DLC that is not included in the game. DLC should be content that is either free at launch or priced later down the road. Weapons, characters, and other goodies like that should not be used as a marketing ploy to sucker in loyal fans. I just don't see why you can't recognize this and express some real concern with how BioWare has been transformed by EA.

[Michel1986]

Alex_SM wrote...

Bioware and EA nowadays are mostly the same.

I don't see the difference now, a good sample is Star Wars The old Republic.

Support is terrible either ingame and on the forums

[littlezack]

Dionkey wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Dionkey wrote...
Stan, in all honesty, do you just agree with everything BioWare and EA does because it's your job, or because you have an undying loyalty to them? 

Hey, Dionkey, "in all honesty" it's not my job to agree with every BioWare and EA do, nor is my loyalty to my employer and parent company undying. I just have a greater insight into the business and game development, and I have a very healthy respect for and skepticism of marketing messages and my own feelings towards consumerism.

I have learned that at some point, the money I would have to spend on a given thing is not worth the value I would derive from that thing. For example, I personally would not purchase an action figure just to get bonus content for free. I would, however, buy an action figure for a reasonable price (because I happen to like action figures) and feel good about getting bonus content for free. I would not hold it against anyone else who thinks differently than me or anyone who places a different value on such content. Which is why I've been very free in encouraging people who don't see this as being worth the cost, to not purchase the products they're bound to. Because the dithering between "you should be ashamed of yourself for making this so expensive for me!" and "but I waaaaaaaant it!" is unproductive and, dare I say it, irresponsible. Take ownership of your own values and purchasing decisions, because all people do when they complain about the price but still demonstrate just how much they want the content is to show marketing that their plan works.

The issue is not about having the choice to purchase these figures or not, the fundamental problem stems from the fact that ME3 isn't even out yet, and they already produced DLC that is not included in the game. DLC should be content that is either free at launch or priced later down the road. Weapons, characters, and other goodies like that should not be used as a marketing ploy to sucker in loyal fans. I just don't see why you can't recognize this and express some real concern with how BioWare has been transformed by EA.

I'd consider myself a loyal fan, and I'm not buying all of the DLC, or even most of it. DLC is a product, just like anything else. You look at it, you see if it's worth the cost, then you buy it or don't buy it. Just like any product. Right now, I'm typing on a laptop that cost me about, oh, say, 1000 bucks. I could have paid more and got some extra stuff, like more harddrive space, et cetera, and it would have cost more. There was an upgraded version available, but I didn't buy it, because the upgraded stuff wasn't worth it to me.

Lots of products - cars, computers, televisions, you name it - have extra things you can buy to compliment a base product. This is not some new concept. If the stuff was required in order to enjoy the game or complete it, that would be one thing. But it's not.

Modifié par littlezack, 19 février 2012 - 12:19 .

[DJStarstryker]

Yeah, I see the multiplayer DLC (for the art book, figures, Razer stuff) as a free bonus. You should be buying it only for what the original item is (figure, etc). Especially when all of this DLC is possible to get in multiplayer, just gotta deal with random packs.

I'm getting the art book and Liara figure, but I pretty much only care about those items. The DLC is just a nice bonus.

[Dionkey]

littlezack wrote...
I'd consider myself a loyal fan, and I'm not buying all of the DLC, or even most of it. DLC is a product, just like anything else. You look at it, you see if it's worth the cost, then you buy it or don't buy it. Just like any product. Right now, I'm typing on a laptop that cost me about, oh, say, 1000 bucks. I could have paid more and got some extra stuff, like more harddrive space, et cetera, and it would have cost more. There was an upgraded version available, but I didn't buy it, because the upgraded stuff wasn't worth it to me.

Lots of products - cars, computers, televisions, you name it - have extra things you can buy to compliment a base product. This is not some new concept. If the stuff was required in order to enjoy the game or complete it, that would be one thing. But it's not.

Unlike televisions, cars, and computers, these extra "parts" cost no money to produce and are entirely digital. They are simply making extra money off pieces that should have been part of the game original, at no extra cost to themselves. The fans would greatly appreciate it, but they don't seem to care, not since they merged with EA, that is.

[izmirtheastarach]

DJStarstryker wrote...

Yeah, I see the multiplayer DLC (for the art book, figures, Razer stuff) as a free bonus. You should be buying it only for what the original item is (figure, etc). Especially when all of this DLC is possible to get in multiplayer, just gotta deal with random packs.

I'm getting the art book and Liara figure, but I pretty much only care about those items. The DLC is just a nice bonus.

This is the beginning and the end of the issue. Buy what you want, don't buy what you don't. DLC is a bonus.

[BatmanPWNS]

Bioware catering to the rich people! ZOMG, Pre-order cancelled! (BTW, this is crazy but I felt like saying that)

[B33ker]

schnydz wrote...

Bravo0o wrote...

I just can't believe there's people complaining because of this.
I lol'd at: "I remember the days of buying a game and that was it. Who was it CoD or MoH that started this? Trying to remember...."
Sincerely i can't remember those magical days when buying a game also got you an iPhone case and a 5.1 Headset.

Not complaining. Just sharing. Besides, my question above was legit. Just trying to remember when it started, that's all.

Well, there's a Wiki entry for DLC.  Kinda an interesting read.

http://en.wikipedia....oadable_content

[slimgrin]

DJBare wrote...

Jedi Sentinel Arian wrote...

I rather buy a laptop.

You can build a decent gaming PC for that kinda money.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Filament wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Filament wrote...
I understand the whole DLC separate budget yadda yadda, but I have to wonder if they couldn't use that excuse to make six separate day one DLCs and make the final product cost over $100 for the super special true fan edition.

Let's say they did. What of it?

I think they would then be decried as taking the nickel and diming scheme to the absurd extreme no one thought it would ever go.

And yet, people already say that of us and/or EA and/or the gaming industry. People said that about horse armour, yet people bought it in droves. People said that about map packs in FPS's, yet those are extremely popular. People said that about hats in TF2, yet people couldn't get enough of them. If it works and people are happy with the stuff they do purchase, no amount of arguing against the practice or the price is going to sound very convincing, is it?

Nice haha. So the company basically releases pre-DLC and Day 1 DLC because you guys know people will buy the **** out of it.

I like what you guys did with this new DLC character. A character that seems so integral to the experience being left out of the game just so you can charge an extra $10 for it. And you KNOW people will buy the **** out of this one, because the character seems more important than all squadmates in ME3 combined.

[G3rman]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Nice haha. So the company basically releases pre-DLC and Day 1 DLC because you guys know people will buy the **** out of it.

I like what you guys did with this new DLC character. A character that seems so integral to the experience being left out of the game just so you can charge an extra $10 for it. And you KNOW people will buy the **** out of this one, because the character seems more important than all squadmates in ME3 combined.

Are you just now figuring out the entire point of marketing and business? 

[Dominus]

Take ownership of your own values and purchasing decisions, because all people do when they complain about the price but still demonstrate just how much they want the content is to show marketing that their plan works.

Pretty much that. I personally don't feel compelled to buy the products, but clearly there's a market for them as they continue to sell.

do you really... i mean... do you think... buy 7 products to obtain the same item in-game?

No. It was likely intended to give a variety of options for getting said item. Buying all 7 would be pretty absurd.

[littlezack]

Dionkey wrote...

littlezack wrote...
I'd consider myself a loyal fan, and I'm not buying all of the DLC, or even most of it. DLC is a product, just like anything else. You look at it, you see if it's worth the cost, then you buy it or don't buy it. Just like any product. Right now, I'm typing on a laptop that cost me about, oh, say, 1000 bucks. I could have paid more and got some extra stuff, like more harddrive space, et cetera, and it would have cost more. There was an upgraded version available, but I didn't buy it, because the upgraded stuff wasn't worth it to me.

Lots of products - cars, computers, televisions, you name it - have extra things you can buy to compliment a base product. This is not some new concept. If the stuff was required in order to enjoy the game or complete it, that would be one thing. But it's not.

Unlike televisions, cars, and computers, these extra "parts" cost no money to produce and are entirely digital. They are simply making extra money off pieces that should have been part of the game original, at no extra cost to themselves. The fans would greatly appreciate it, but they don't seem to care, not since they merged with EA, that is.

First off, if it's in the game, I guarantee you, it cost money to produce. Every aspect of a game cost money. Even 'free' DLC cost somebody money to make it. Unless you seriously believe the developers sat around and made something without being paid for it.

Second off, who's to say it should have been part of the game proper? Take Zaeed for example. Does he add to the experience of Mass Effect 2? Sure. But he's clearly not an integral part of the game by any stretch of the imagination. If you didn't know he existed, you could play Mass Effect 2 and never even know he was there to miss. He was made apart from the development of the main game.

[THEE_DEATHMASTER]

I think a number of things have changed in order to get the opinions we have today. First, it's a lot easier to market now, with the internet and business models being up to date, devs can display right on the game launch screen that there's new DLC available. I'm not sure when exactly this practice became common, but I can recall a time when I could buy a game for my Sega Genesis and that was the end of it, I had the full game. I know there were sometimes expansion packs, but the title of this thread illustrates the lengths you have to go to in order to have the COMPLETE Mass Effect 3 game, which I think is a new practice.

Now, perhaps that will (or should) teach some people the value of money, but when there's a widespread population of children/manchildren on a forum (especially the OFFICIAL forum), the whining level certainly does appear to get out of control.

Modifié par THEE_DEATHMASTER, 19 février 2012 - 03:40 .

[LenaMarie]

Though I personally dislike all this DLC business, I have to agree with Stan there. In general all this consumerism/marketing BS is the peoples fault.

When people are weak minded and foolish with no concept of owning their own destiny and buy into all this crap, you are 1000% validating the nickle and diming. Companies wouldn't do these things if people had the strength to say NO and vote with their wallets.

Same with the 59$ price tag on PC games, vote with your wallet and that stops. It may be slimy but companies are within their rights to take advantage of weak people of which there are many and really, why not? A Fool and his money is well parted or so the saying goes.

Or, as Jacob says own up to your own mistakes.