252 réponses à ce sujet

[littlezack]

THEE_DEATHMASTER wrote...

I think a number of things have changed in order to get the opinions we have today. First, it's a lot easier to market now, with the internet and business models being up to date, devs can display right on the game launch screen that there's new DLC available. I'm not sure when exactly this practice became common, but I can recall a time when I could buy a game for my Sega Genesis and that was the end of it, I had the full game. I know there were sometimes expansion packs, but the title of this thread illustrates the lengths you have to go to in order to have the COMPLETE Mass Effect 3 game, which I think is a new practice.  

The only reason they didn't do DLC back in the day was because they couldn't. Hell, they even made some attempts at it. Remember Street Fighter II? Super Street Fighter II? Super Street Fighter II Turbo?

[Gibb_Shepard]

LenaMarie wrote...

Though I personally dislike all this DLC business, I have to agree with Stan there. In general all this consumerism/marketing BS is the peoples fault.

When people are weak minded and foolish with no concept of owning their own destiny and buy into all this crap, you are 1000% validating the nickle and diming. Companies wouldn't do these things if people had the strength to say NO and vote with their wallets.

Same with the 59$ price tag on PC games, vote with your wallet and that stops. It may be slimy but companies are within their rights to take advantage of weak people of which there are many and really, why not? A Fool and his money is well parted or so the saying goes.

Or, as Jacob says own up to your own mistakes.

That's the thing though. They have put everyone who is a fan of Mass Effect into a position with this DLC character. The character seems damn near essential. No Mass Effect fan could resist this character, and thats exactly what they plan on. It's a sick and sly practise.

[Scorpion1O1]

If I was loaded I would probably buy most of that stuff (shrugs*) but no, I'm not.

[littlezack]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Though I personally dislike all this DLC business, I have to agree with Stan there. In general all this consumerism/marketing BS is the peoples fault.

When people are weak minded and foolish with no concept of owning their own destiny and buy into all this crap, you are 1000% validating the nickle and diming. Companies wouldn't do these things if people had the strength to say NO and vote with their wallets.

Same with the 59$ price tag on PC games, vote with your wallet and that stops. It may be slimy but companies are within their rights to take advantage of weak people of which there are many and really, why not? A Fool and his money is well parted or so the saying goes.

Or, as Jacob says own up to your own mistakes.

That's the thing though. They have put everyone who is a fan of Mass Effect into a position with this DLC character. The character seems damn near essential. No Mass Effect fan could resist this character, and thats exactly what they plan on. It's a sick and sly practise.

How is the character essential?

[Revan312]

littlezack wrote...

First off, if it's in the game, I guarantee you, it cost money to produce. Every aspect of a game cost money. Even 'free' DLC cost somebody money to make it. Unless you seriously believe the developers sat around and made something without being paid for it.

He meant it doesn't cost anything to physically make the DLC.. There's no packaging, distribution, retail overhead etc etc.. If you think the profit margin for a laptop compared to a piece of DLC is even close than your kidding yourself. DLC/digital distribution makes hundreds of times more profit than what it took to make, because once the coding is finished, the creation is done, and now that one product's resource cost that took X amount of time is divided among the total amount of purchases. 1 / millions = hundredths if not thousanths of a cent the company spent per DLC purchase. A laptop will always take hundreds of physical parts that cost a set amount of money for each unit, plus the R&D for the item itself.

Second off, who's to say it should have been part of the game proper? Take Zaeed for example. Does he add to the experience of Mass Effect 2? Sure. But he's clearly not an integral part of the game by any stretch of the imagination. If you didn't know he existed, you could play Mass Effect 2 and never even know he was there to miss. He was made apart from the development of the main game.

So we can take the same approach with anything. Who needs Joker as he's not integral, he's just comic relief, so for $7.00 you can unlock him on the Normandy, Chakwas is only $2.00. Also, to unlock half the armor, weapons, face options, hair styles and color schemes, it's only $12.00!!

Saying that something isn't integral is ridiculous. Not a single crew member minus Shepard, Miranda, Jacob, Tali and Mordin was intigral to the main story in any way minus interchangability of jobs during the suicide mission. So with your approach, all of the rest could have been DLC characters and you wouldn't have been bothered?

People who dislike DLC and don't buy any of it, or at least not much, are getting shafted for being responsible consumers as games are becoming more and more compartmentalised concerning content. So many things are getting stripped for DLC now that games really aren't full packages out of box, period. I'd much rather simply have an increase in game price and have it all included than this piece meal, nickle and dime, exclusive pre-order, day one DLC BS..

The more DLC sells, the more games become unfair marketing tools for cash grabs, and the more that happens, the less all of us win in the end, minus the publishers of course.

[LenaMarie]

Revan312 wrote...

littlezack wrote...

First off, if it's in the game, I guarantee you, it cost money to produce. Every aspect of a game cost money. Even 'free' DLC cost somebody money to make it. Unless you seriously believe the developers sat around and made something without being paid for it.

He meant it doesn't cost anything to physically make the DLC.. There's no packaging, distribution, retail overhead etc etc.. If you think the profit margin for a laptop compared to a piece of DLC is even close than your kidding yourself. DLC/digital distribution makes hundreds of times more profit than what it took to make, because once the coding is finished, the creation is done, and now that one product's resource cost that took X amount of time is divided among the total amount of purchases. 1 / millions = hundredths if not thousanths of a cent the company spent per DLC purchase. A laptop will always take hundreds of physical parts that cost a set amount of money for each unit, plus the R&D for the item itself.

Second off, who's to say it should have been part of the game proper? Take Zaeed for example. Does he add to the experience of Mass Effect 2? Sure. But he's clearly not an integral part of the game by any stretch of the imagination. If you didn't know he existed, you could play Mass Effect 2 and never even know he was there to miss. He was made apart from the development of the main game.

So we can take the same approach with anything. Who needs Joker as he's not integral, he's just comic relief, so for $7.00 you can unlock him on the Normandy, Chakwas is only $2.00. Also, to unlock half the armor, weapons, face options, hair styles and color schemes, it's only $12.00!!

Saying that something isn't integral is ridiculous. Not a single crew member minus Shepard, Miranda, Jacob, Tali and Mordin was intigral to the main story in any way minus interchangability of jobs during the suicide mission. So with your approach, all of the rest could have been DLC characters and you wouldn't have been bothered?

People who dislike DLC and don't buy any of it, or at least not much, are getting shafted for being responsible consumers as games are becoming more and more compartmentalised concerning content. So many things are getting stripped for DLC now that games really aren't full packages out of box, period. I'd much rather simply have an increase in game price and have it all included than this piece meal, nickle and dime, exclusive pre-order, day one DLC BS..

The more DLC sells, the more games become unfair marketing tools for cash grabs, and the more that happens, the less all of us win in the end, minus the publishers of course.

Extra Companions are almost always free you know, if you bought games used and get charged for extra companions, thats a whole different issue.

[littlezack]

Revan312 wrote...

So we can take the same approach with anything. Who needs Joker as he's not integral, he's just comic relief, so for $7.00 you can unlock him on the Normandy, Chakwas is only $2.00. Also, to unlock half the armor, weapons, face options, hair styles and color schemes, it's only $12.00!!

Saying that something isn't integral is ridiculous. Not a single crew member minus Shepard, Miranda, Jacob, Tali and Mordin was intigral to the main story in any way minus interchangability of jobs during the suicide mission. So with your approach, all of the rest could have been DLC characters and you wouldn't have been bothered?

But that's not what happened or is happening is it? You're basically playing the slippery slope game. How do you even define what 'integral' or not? What, because they're important to the story? The game could easily be rewritten to make Shepard the only important caracter.

Yes, characters like Joker and Chakwas aren't essential for the game in any, way, shape or form, but they obviously have to include a certain amount of content in a game in order for it to be considered a worthy product. Yes, they could strip the game down and charge for everything. But nobody in their right mind would buy it. People want a full experience. And if they want extra stuff on top of that full experience, people can pay for it.

Besides, the whole purpose of ME2 was that you go around recruiting a team for a mission. If Tali and Mordin were the only people you went around looking for, the game would basically be guilty of false advertising. Even if the other characters aren't integral, they fit with the game's narrative of forming a team. If you took them out, it would be obvious that the game was missing something.

The gaping hole - or, really one of - with the whole 'DLC is EVIL' argument is that it assumes that, if developers couldn't make money off of DLC content, that they would just give it out for free. More often than not, they just wouldn't make it. If you believe for one second that Zaeed or Kasumi or any of the other DLC content for ME2 would have been included in the game in any other circumstance, you're fooling yourself. They were intended to be DLC from conception. It's blindingly obvious that they're different from the other team members.

Modifié par littlezack, 19 février 2012 - 04:49 .

[Takamori The Templar]

Well today marketing with a retarded customer base that accept anything you throw.
That's the result.
Half finished games with dlc's as excuse of extra content , even if you know that they already had it done.
Because your 59.99 bucks is not enough.

Also DLC was invented to cripple the used game market.

Modifié par Takamori The Templar, 19 février 2012 - 04:53 .

[Revan312]

LenaMarie wrote...


Extra Companions are almost always free you know, if you bought games used and get charged for extra companions, thats a whole different issue.

Bioware hasn't quite reached the ludicrous level that some companies have.. Most Mass Effect DLC on day one or any other day for that matter is superfluous and uneeded for an individuals enjoyment of the main game. And I don't mind buying DLC that expands the story AFTER the release of the game, DLC I know was created after the fact. LOTSB was well worth it.

I'm simply talking about the slowly devolving trend of DLC and how more and more is made for every game at release, DLC that was obviously held back from intigrating it into the full package to begin with. Bio is an offender of this, though not quite to the same level as others. I have no problem imagining a future where every game released is piece mealed for major components. Buy the single player or multiplayer? Buy the first section of the game or the second? etc. It might be a while, but if things continue, I can see it happening..

Modifié par Revan312, 19 février 2012 - 04:58 .

[littlezack]

Revan312 wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...


Extra Companions are almost always free you know, if you bought games used and get charged for extra companions, thats a whole different issue.

Bioware hasn't quite reached the ludicrous level that some companies have.. Most Mass Effect DLC on day one or any other day for that matter is superfluous and uneeded for an individuals enjoyment of the main game. And I don't mind buying DLC that expands the story AFTER the release of the game, DLC I know was created after the fact. LOTSB was well worth it.

I'm simply talking about the slowly devolving trend of DLC and how more and more is made for every game at release. Bio is an offender of this, though not quite to the same level as others. I have no problem imagining a future where every game released is piece mealed for major components. Buy the single player or multiplayer? Buy the first section of the game or the second? etc. It might be a while, but if things continue, I can see it happening..

I will agree that certain developers take DLC a step too far and abuse the practice - though you could say that about any product, really. My main area of disagreement is that I don't care when the DLC was made, as long as the main game has what I consider to be a satisfactory level of content.

[littlezack]

Takamori The Templar wrote...

Well today marketing with a retarded customer base that accept anything you throw.
That's the result.
Half finished games with dlc's as excuse of extra content , even if you know that they already had it done.
Because your 59.99 bucks is not enough.

Also DLC was invented to cripple the used game market.

No, it was not.

Videogame companies have been trying to make as much money as possible off videogames since videogames were created. They've tried numerous things - peripheals you don't really need. Rereleases of games with minor changes. Expansion packs. Add-ons. DLC is just the latest and most convenient route for them. I can respect certain opinions, but do not tell me that videogame companies were just bastions of morality and fair practice before DLC. I have a goddamn Power Glove I'd like to show you.

[Takamori The Templar]

Well name any other game that tried to pull out *check the title* 870 bucks with dlcs?
That was released before 2002.
And power glove was a controller with no dlc included , oh you forgot to mention that didn't sold well.

Modifié par Takamori The Templar, 19 février 2012 - 05:09 .

[JSU76]

DLC and add on's are out of control... one of the leading problems with Video Game Developers. The nonsense needs to be addressed. This BS in game items used to be free or part of the actual game or better yet - created by the gaming community in Mod development.

[littlezack]

Takamori The Templar wrote...

Well name any other game that tried to pull out *check the title* 870 bucks with dlcs?
That was released before 2002.
And power glove was a controller with no dlc included , oh you forgot to mention that didn't sold well.

I didn't forget to mention anything; it's just an example of how the gaming industry has always been about making as much money as possible off gamers. The fact that it didn't sell well is irrelevant - they wanted it to sell well, and it's a completely useless piece of junk. The only thing that's changed is the advent of the internet and the ability for DLC to even exist.

And it's not $870 worth of DLC. The vast bulk of that money would be for the products that the DLC comes with it.

Modifié par littlezack, 19 février 2012 - 05:15 .

[Volus Warlord]

yawn.. stop pulling numbers out of your ass...

[Gibb_Shepard]

littlezack wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Though I personally dislike all this DLC business, I have to agree with Stan there. In general all this consumerism/marketing BS is the peoples fault.

When people are weak minded and foolish with no concept of owning their own destiny and buy into all this crap, you are 1000% validating the nickle and diming. Companies wouldn't do these things if people had the strength to say NO and vote with their wallets.

Same with the 59$ price tag on PC games, vote with your wallet and that stops. It may be slimy but companies are within their rights to take advantage of weak people of which there are many and really, why not? A Fool and his money is well parted or so the saying goes.

Or, as Jacob says own up to your own mistakes.

That's the thing though. They have put everyone who is a fan of Mass Effect into a position with this DLC character. The character seems damn near essential. No Mass Effect fan could resist this character, and thats exactly what they plan on. It's a sick and sly practise.

How is the character essential?

Do you know what the character is? One of the most prominent aspects of Mass Effect, and they sell it as Day 1 DLC. 

[littlezack]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

littlezack wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Though I personally dislike all this DLC business, I have to agree with Stan there. In general all this consumerism/marketing BS is the peoples fault.

When people are weak minded and foolish with no concept of owning their own destiny and buy into all this crap, you are 1000% validating the nickle and diming. Companies wouldn't do these things if people had the strength to say NO and vote with their wallets.

Same with the 59$ price tag on PC games, vote with your wallet and that stops. It may be slimy but companies are within their rights to take advantage of weak people of which there are many and really, why not? A Fool and his money is well parted or so the saying goes.

Or, as Jacob says own up to your own mistakes.

That's the thing though. They have put everyone who is a fan of Mass Effect into a position with this DLC character. The character seems damn near essential. No Mass Effect fan could resist this character, and thats exactly what they plan on. It's a sick and sly practise.

How is the character essential?

Do you know what the character is? One of the most prominent aspects of Mass Effect, and they sell it as Day 1 DLC. 

I know what it's called. The doesn't tell me anything about the character itself or it importance to the story.

[PARAGON87]

schnydz wrote...


Auxiliary purchases:

Unannounced price for the iOS game Mass Effect Infiltrator, which can affect the main game.

$10 day one "From Dust" DLC

$44.99 for the Liara figurine - which oddly enough now comes with unconfirmed DLC

$24.99 for The Art of Mass Effect Universe - Collector Assault Rifle DLC/Powerup

$80 for four Mass Effect 3 toys - "Slightly randomized" multiplayer unlock DLC

$59.99 for the Mass Effect 3 controller - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$209.99 for the Chimera 5.1 Headset - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$34.99 for the Mousepad - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$79.99 for the Messenger Bag - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$24.99 for the iPhone case - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$79.99 for the Mouse - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

$139.99 for the Keyboard - Collector Assault Rifle unlock DLC/Powerup

*edit: there, less $$, happy? Still relevant.

Um, all these bolded DLCs are the same thing, so, OP, you have to cut your estimate by at least $630,

If people get all this for bonus items, they're going to be very disappointed, and should slap themselves... hard.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

littlezack wrote...
The gaping hole - or, really one of - with the whole 'DLC is EVIL' argument is that it assumes that, if developers couldn't make money off of DLC content, that they would just give it out for free. More often than not, they just wouldn't make it. If you believe for one second that Zaeed or Kasumi or any of the other DLC content for ME2 would have been included in the game in any other circumstance, you're fooling yourself. They were intended to be DLC from conception. It's blindingly obvious that they're different from the other team members.

Incorrect on that last point.  From my understanding, Mac didn't want Garrus and Tali as part of the squad - they would have been side characters like Wrex and Liara.  Zaeed (assault rifle/sniper, with anti-shield powers) and Kasumi (tech powers) were obvious stand-ins.

Also, "back in the day" before DLC, you did want to ship a complete game.  Expansion packs were just that. 

[littlezack]

HappyHappyJoyJoy wrote...

littlezack wrote...
The gaping hole - or, really one of - with the whole 'DLC is EVIL' argument is that it assumes that, if developers couldn't make money off of DLC content, that they would just give it out for free. More often than not, they just wouldn't make it. If you believe for one second that Zaeed or Kasumi or any of the other DLC content for ME2 would have been included in the game in any other circumstance, you're fooling yourself. They were intended to be DLC from conception. It's blindingly obvious that they're different from the other team members.

Incorrect on that last point.  From my understanding, Mac didn't want Garrus and Tali as part of the squad - they would have been side characters like Wrex and Liara.  Zaeed (assault rifle/sniper, with anti-shield powers) and Kasumi (tech powers) were obvious stand-ins.

Also, "back in the day" before DLC, you did want to ship a complete game.  Expansion packs were just that. 

At the conceptual stage, perhaps, but in the end, when the game was developed, Zaeed and Kasumi were not made to be put into the game the same way Garrus and Tali.  They don't even have recruitment mission, you can talk to them like you can with every other crew member, and they have different powers than the others (only those two use grenades) If they weren't DLC, more than likely, they just would have stayed cut.

And back in the day, people cut content from games all the time. Levels, characters, whathaveyou.

[HappyHappyJoyJoy]

littlezack wrote...

And back in the day, people cut content from games all the time. Levels, characters, whathaveyou.

I know, I have 5 credits listed on Mobygames... we also cut entire games too

[Stanley Woo]

Dionkey wrote...
The issue is not about having the choice to purchase these figures or not, the fundamental problem stems from the fact that ME3 isn't even out yet, and they already produced DLC that is not included in the game. DLC should be content that is either free at launch or priced later down the road. Weapons, characters, and other goodies like that should not be used as a marketing ploy to sucker in loyal fans. I just don't see why you can't recognize this and express some real concern with how BioWare has been transformed by EA.

But the "concern with how BioWAre has been transformed by EA" is your worry, based on your lack of understanding or disagreement with how business works. It is also based on a strict subjective view of what DLC is. Why should I express concern over something that only the customer can decide, which is whether or not to buy bonus content or a product that comes bundled with bonus content. I'm not buying it, but that's a decision I make for myself. I cannot tell you what to do.

Unlike televisions, cars, and computers, these extra "parts" cost no money to produce and are entirely digital. They are simply making extra money off pieces that should have been part of the game original, at no extra cost to themselves. The fans would greatly appreciate it, but they don't seem to care, not since they merged with EA, that is.

Incorrect. All "parts" cost more than no money to produce. They do not magically spring forth from the ether and magically appear in game. Someone has to construct the models, someone has to ensure the authentication process works, someone has to test the items. And there you go with the tired old "DLC is cut from the game to sell later," which I've debunked many times.

Of course the fans would appreciate something for nothing, that's a common desire for customers. The difference here is that you are refusing to listen to reason, refusing to listen to someone who is telling you how it works, and refusing to back down from your accusations of wrongdoing, all while blinding yourself to the fact that all you want is something for free. Which is fine, as long as you are aware of what you're doing. Failing that time and again, you're going to find people like me to be increasingly unsympathetic to your misguided and stubborn attempts to get a point across.

[Gatt9]

LenaMarie wrote...

Though I personally dislike all this DLC business, I have to agree with Stan there. In general all this consumerism/marketing BS is the peoples fault.

When people are weak minded and foolish with no concept of owning their own destiny and buy into all this crap, you are 1000% validating the nickle and diming. Companies wouldn't do these things if people had the strength to say NO and vote with their wallets.

Same with the 59$ price tag on PC games, vote with your wallet and that stops. It may be slimy but companies are within their rights to take advantage of weak people of which there are many and really, why not? A Fool and his money is well parted or so the saying goes.

Or, as Jacob says own up to your own mistakes.

Actually,  it's certain company's faults,  not the consumers.

Look at Fable 2's DLC,  it's a set of mini-games,  if you buy it you get some extra gold in the full game.  If you don't,  it doesn't impact the full game.

Look at Dead Rising 2's DLC,  you could d/l it and treat it like a demo,  or you could buy it and transfer some extras over to your character in the main game.  But again,  doesn't impact the main game.

But then look at EA's treatment of DLC...

Dead Space 2,  if you don't buy the prelaunch DLC,  content on the disc is held hostage behind locked doors.  If you're a PC gamer,  then you're really outta luck,  the DLC wasn't even offerred on the PC so you'll never get all of the content that's on the disc you bought.

Dragon Age Origins,  Day 1 DLC,  and it was absolutely finished prior to launch because it was advertised in game.

ME3,  Day 1 DLC,  DLC attached to things there's no valid reason to attach it to just to try and get people to buy things they wouldn't normally buy.

The problem isn't the consumers,  the problem is companies who think "DLC" stands for "Cut this stuff out of the game and sell it for extra on day 1!".

It'll come out right in the end though.  Market isn't dropping huge percentages month after month after month because the gaming industry is on the right track,  or in tune with consumers.

Modifié par Gatt9, 19 février 2012 - 06:24 .

[Stanley Woo]

It isn't a question of blame. Commerce is a system. Without either the producer or the buyer, the system breaks down.

Gatt9 says
ME3, Day 1 DLC, DLC attached to things there's no valid reason to attach it to just to try and get people to buy things they wouldn't normally buy.

Welcome to the world of advertising, circa ancient Egypt. And Gatt9, your hysterical posts don't encourage discussion with you. I've told you this before.

[littlezack]

Gatt9 wrote...

LenaMarie wrote...

Though I personally dislike all this DLC business, I have to agree with Stan there. In general all this consumerism/marketing BS is the peoples fault.

When people are weak minded and foolish with no concept of owning their own destiny and buy into all this crap, you are 1000% validating the nickle and diming. Companies wouldn't do these things if people had the strength to say NO and vote with their wallets.

Same with the 59$ price tag on PC games, vote with your wallet and that stops. It may be slimy but companies are within their rights to take advantage of weak people of which there are many and really, why not? A Fool and his money is well parted or so the saying goes.

Or, as Jacob says own up to your own mistakes.

Actually,  it's certain company's faults,  not the consumers.

Look at Fable 2's DLC,  it's a set of mini-games,  if you buy it you get some extra gold in the full game.  If you don't,  it doesn't impact the full game.

Look at Dead Rising 2's DLC,  you could d/l it and treat it like a demo,  or you could buy it and transfer some extras over to your character in the main game.  But again,  doesn't impact the main game.

But then look at EA's treatment of DLC...

Dead Space 2,  if you don't buy the prelaunch DLC,  content on the disc is held hostage behind locked doors.  If you're a PC gamer,  then you're really outta luck,  the DLC wasn't even offerred on the PC so you'll never get all of the content that's on the disc you bought.

Dragon Age Origins,  Day 1 DLC,  and it was absolutely finished prior to launch because it was advertised in game.

ME3,  Day 1 DLC,  DLC attached to things there's no valid reason to attach it to just to try and get people to buy things they wouldn't normally buy.

The problem isn't the consumers,  the problem is companies who think "DLC" stands for "Cut this stuff out of the game and sell it for extra on day 1!".

It'll come out right in the end though.  Market isn't dropping huge percentages month after month after month because the gaming industry is on the right track,  or in tune with consumers.

Fable 2's pre-launch DLC was crap, don't even get me started. Especially since it had a rather game-breaking bug that let you get infinite gold. Also, you didn't buy it, it was free with a preorder from GameStop. You had to buy a new copy to get it. And while I never played Dead Rising 2, the idea of making you pay for a demo seems somewhat shady to me.

Here's the thing - companies do not make DLC because they're mean, spiteful and just hate gamers, they make it because people buy it. There is a demand, so they supply. Your declaration of 'it'll come out right in the end' is moronic; if the market is dropping, it probably has less to do with DLC and more to do with, oh, I don't know, the GLOBAL RECESSION. And that dropping isn't going to get developers to stop making DLC - if anything, it'll encourage them to make more to DLC, in order to ensure a return on the investment.

Here's a fact of life - nobody really gives a crap about messages on a forum. Companies are in the business of making money, and they use DLC because it's a proven method of making money. You can fill this board up with topics about the evils of DLC all you want, and they'll still make the stuff. Why? Because even if they do lose business from people who hate it, they clearly gaining more business from people who want it. You don't have to like it, but that's the way life is.