169 réponses à ce sujet

[dissonance-zaon]

I personally don't think 50% is average by any means these days. If anything, it's because of major review sites and Metacritic that 70% is now the new "average". If I see any game, on any site, or any forum, get a 50%, I'd think it was an awful score...

And yes, I'm pretty critical of the demo's gameplay (everything else not so much). I also visit gaming sites on an almost daily basis for gaming news. Take that as you will.

Edit: I even scored the demo as a 6-- which I considered "below average". At least for a triple A title.

Modifié par dissonance-zaon, 18 février 2012 - 08:24 .

[Phaedon]

dissonance-zaon wrote...

I personally don't think 50% is average by any means these days. If anything, it's because of major review sites and Metacritic that 70% is now the new "average". If I see any game, on any site, or any forum, get a 50%, I'd think it was an awful score...

Alright. Let's see.

Do you accept that 100/2=50? Yes?

If so, I don't understand your problem. I mean, I am really confused.

You specifically bring up "these days", "major review sites", "Metacritic", all of which allude to professional gaming reviews. 
 I believe that this survey can by no means be characterized as such. Are we on the same page here?

If so, good. Professional reviews suffer from inflation. All of them.

Every reviewer sets scores comparatively, after reviewing the current, inflated median score.
Not only does Metacritic recognize it, not only do they adjust their formulas accordingly, but they also make a distinction between average values between movies, games and albums. Yeah. Even though they are all professional, sometimes from the same newspaper, magazine or website. Heh.

Alright? Let's move on.

This survey is not comparative. There is no preset average. Can we agree with that, too? Well, we ought to. I am certain I haven't made any surveys for other demos, have I? Seeing as the survey is not comparative, score inflation can not occur. As inflation can not occur, the median value doesn't go over 50%. 

Capiche? 

Bueno.

Therefore, comparisons with professional review averages are flawed by their own nature.

Are you convinced? No?

Alright. 

Grand Theft Auto IV.
User Score: 79% (Non Inflated)
Professional Score: 98% (Inflated)

If the user score was inflated, then it would have been viewed as barely above average/mixed reactions, by Metacritic's standards for professional reviews. However, the score declared as inflated is 98%. See?

Modifié par Phaedon, 18 février 2012 - 08:42 .

[Phaedon]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

You sound like a d*ck there.^

Genitalia don't generally make sounds.

[Phaedon]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
70 is the new fifty.

No, it's not. This is what I explained very simply, at the risk of sounding condescending.

Let's get this straight.

50 is still the median value between 0 and 100.
40-60 is the inflated average for Professional Mixed or Average, Movies, TV and Music reviews. Which are comparative.
50-74 is the inflated average for Professional Mixed or Average gaming reviews. Which are, of course, comparative.

This inflated average by no means has anything to do with this survey or the way it was conducted, unless you were reviewing mathematical formulas before posting your entry.

Modifié par Phaedon, 18 février 2012 - 08:49 .

[Julia343]

The CC got a low score because it was too intense of a blue. I had to adjust the sound and lower the music volume and sound effects so I could hear the dialogue. Graphics were about as expected -- the game is using an outdated engine (I'm on a 360) but then I'm not expecting anything fantastic on that anymore anyway. It's good enough.

I felt the music scoring was excellent -- I compose this kind of stuff myself, and the composer wrote some really great pieces -- not overdone and overly complex but just right for the scenes. Big kudos for him. 10/10.

Kaiden... poor Kaiden.... well I remember on missions in ME1 he spent more time with little xs in his eyes than not. So I "Virmired" him in all but one.

I haven't tried the MP yet. Not enough people on my FL have the demo yet, but I'm working on them.

I know this is just the demo, and I'm guessing there will be more dialogue options. It is going to be interesting to do the "action" version of the game after my playthroughs to see what Bioware's canon is just for the hell of it, even though that's not my preferred way of playing the game.

[Rickin10]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

No, i was talking about public view. People in general view "7 out of 10" as average, not just "professional" gaming sites. Thus, when people vote on things like this, they tend to go from 7 up.

probably has something to do with the school system.

If you see how people go ape**** over anything less then  a 9.0 for their favourite franchise, or reviewers who spend an entire review tearing into a game then somehow end up with 8.0, i conclude in the messed up world of gaming 8.5 is average.

[Ianamus]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

I wish I'd known about this survey beforehand.

I would have given it about a 3 because I can't even play the d*mn demo, it freezes or blue-screens everytime I try to start a new character (in the opening cutscene).

Why would you give it a 3 if it didn't even work? Nor working usually means instant 0 in my books, until the problem is fixed. 

[dissonance-zaon]

Phaedon wrote...

Alright. Let's see.

Do you accept that 100/2=50? Yes?

If so, I don't understand your problem. I mean, I am really confused.

You specifically bring up "these days", "major review sites", "Metacritic", all of which allude to professional gaming reviews. 
 I believe that this survey can by no means be characterized as such. Are we on the same page here?

If so, good. Professional reviews suffer from inflation. All of them.

Every reviewer sets scores comparatively, after reviewing the current, inflated median score.
Not only does Metacritic recognize it, not only do they adjust their formulas accordingly, but they also make a distinction between average values between movies, games and albums. Yeah. Even though they are all professional, sometimes from the same newspaper, magazine or website. Heh.

Alright? Let's move on.

This survey is not comparative. There is no preset average. Can we agree with that, too? Well, we ought to. I am certain I haven't made any surveys for other demos, have I? Seeing as the survey is not comparative, score inflation can not occur. As inflation can not occur, the median value doesn't go over 50%. 

Capiche? 

Bueno.

Therefore, comparisons with professional review averages are flawed by their own nature.

Are you convinced? No?

Alright. 

Grand Theft Auto IV.
User Score: 79% (Non Inflated)
Professional Score: 98% (Inflated)

If the user score was inflated, then it would have been viewed as barely above average/mixed reactions, by Metacritic's standards for professional reviews. However, the score declared as inflated is 98%. See?

Umm... I was just giving a perspective into what trends I've come to see as a "casually hardcore" gamer. I don't have a "problem" for you to fix, I just had an "opinion" on the subject matter.

You're a great contributor to these forums, I respect that. I'd respect a notch less condescending more.

[Phaedon]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

No, i was talking about public view. People in general view "7 out of 10" as average, not just "professional" gaming sites. Thus, when people vote on things like this, they tend to go from 7 up.

You assume that they do so in non-comparative systems, probably because you do. I don't. That's not reason enough to just shoot down your entire idea, however.

I'll just use the Metacritic user scores. Whatever you think of the existence of some supposed score inflation society has constructed into people's minds, that doesn't materialize at all. User scores tend to be consistently 10-20% lower than the professional review ones. Just as Metacritic average predict.

The reason that Metacritic uses 10 as the maximum value for user scores is because the lack of inflation in user scores, and the comparison of user scores to professional review scores.

probably has something to do with the school system.

But school grades are inflated because they are comparative.

[Ianamus]

Rickin10 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

No, i was talking about public view. People in general view "7 out of 10" as average, not just "professional" gaming sites. Thus, when people vote on things like this, they tend to go from 7 up.

probably has something to do with the school system.

If you see how people go ape**** over anything less then  a 9.0 for their favourite franchise, or reviewers who spend an entire review tearing into a game then somehow end up with 8.0, i conclude in the messed up world of gaming 8.5 is average.

Your completely right, and it's a pretty bad problem really. 

Looking at the user reviews on Meteric is just cringeworthy. 90% or more of reviews are always in the red or green- nobody seems to be able to give a game an "average" rating. it's either the best game ever or the worst. 

When I see people give a game like Mass Effect 2 a 0 I really do wonder what they would rate a genuinely terrible game as. In the same way I wonder what the people who give it a 10 would rate the absolute ideal game with the best graphics available and no bugs at all. Realistically 0 and 10 should be unreachable by any game, no matter how bad or good. 

I don't think that reviews by official reviews are any better. I read a Modern Warfare 3 review that pretty much said "It's not really adding anything new- almost exactly the same as last game, not that great. I'd give it 9 out of 10"

Modifié par EJ107, 18 février 2012 - 09:14 .

[100k]

The CC got a lower score because its not translating many faces as well as many of us hoped, and the options for the faces is VERY limited -- especially the hairstyles and makeup.

It was clearly a last minute addition :-(

[Gold Dragon]

And yet get a 50% on a test and you failed it.

Get a 70% or so and you get an "Average" score.

[Phaedon]

dissonance-zaon wrote...
Umm... I was just giving a perspective into what trends I've come to see as a "casually hardcore" gamer. I don't have a "problem" for you to fix, I just had an "opinion" on the subject matter.

You're a great contributor to these forums, I respect that. I'd respect a notch less condescending more.

Look, I hate to sound patronizing, and I apologize for that, but I can't really sugar coat it much.

You note score inflation in professional reviews and are evidently intelligent enough to understand how inflation works, yet you suggest that these scores should be seen through the prism of very specific score inflation. I just don't really get it.

[Ianamus]

A Golden Dragon wrote...

And yet get a 50% on a test and you failed it.

Get a 70% or so and you get an "Average" score.

I don't know how exams work in America but in the UK the pass for A-level exams is 40% (but it scores an E). For GCSE's I think it's around 40% as well. 70% is a B and is considered above average. 

Modifié par EJ107, 18 février 2012 - 09:08 .

[kingjezza]

People can moan about haters all they want but it's clear there are a fair share of people who are giving it high scores it doesn't actually deserve, unless of course people actually think that demo was perfect.

Ignore the 1's and 10's, both are utterly pointless and unhelpful in the long run.

[Phaedon]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
I assume they do because I've never known anyone to honestly give things scores like "5 out of 10" and say, "it was alright. Average." You're the one exception.

It really doesn't matter what you think of my way of viewing things, the difference between Metacritic user scores and professional reviews falls almost perfectly within the inflation levels Metacritic predicts for professional gaming reviews.

And about school grades, I'm saying that that has warped the minds of people to believe that 70=average.

Except that that is simply not factual.

Here's an example. Brittish universities follow grade inflation, and have different requirements per country. For example, many courses require a grade in the Greek "Apolyteirion" certificate as high as 19/20. That by itself, is crazy both by Greek and European standards of school grades. However, it is a common occurance that the school "helps" the students by often giving high marks. The university, recognizing that, ups the standards.

It really is not a matter of opinion.

A Golden Dragon wrote...

And yet get a 50% on a test and you failed it.

Get a 70% or so and you get an "Average" score.

[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png[/smilie]

But school grades are inflated because they are comparative.

What, you think that school grades always considered 70% as the average? 

[dissonance-zaon]

Phaedon wrote...

Look, I hate to sound patronizing, and I apologize for that, but I can't really sugar coat it much.

You note score inflation in professional reviews and are evidently intelligent enough to understand how inflation works, yet you suggest that these scores should be seen through the prism of very specific score inflation. I just don't really get it.

I also noted that I visit those same websites on an almost daily basis, along with prefacing my whole post with "I personally", and then even edited in how I scored based upon the conditioning those websites and the gaming community in general has had upon me.

The only prism I suggest is my own, which is probably why you don't "get it", since you don't share the same perspective.

I only offered my perspective so that you understand that the mathematical mean is not exactly relative to an opinion.

[Phaedon]

Julia343 wrote...

The CC got a low score because it was too intense of a blue.

You are referring to the lighting? I think only the interface was blue. The lighting was just darker than usual.