268 réponses à ce sujet

[fatmancory]

SirCrimz wrote...

I believe the quarians were right to attempt to destroy their creations. Why? Because I'm sure as hell most of you would do the same if you understood the implications of a machine having the capability of killing your family and friends. Creating the geth was a mistake and the quarians paid for it, but they weren't wrong by trying to destroy what they created to protect their people. At the time Quarians were not aware of them having any kind of sense of morality. But now that the remnants of the Mourning War have settled and with the help of Commander Shepard's and Tali's  new understanding of the geth, it would be in the Quarian's and Geth's interest to establish peace. Giving the Quarian's their homeworld back and living peace with the Geth. All in all, I think it was a very costly, but understandable misunderstanding.

And for those of you who say that you don't think the Geth would've retaliated aggressively after becoming more aware of their existence, that's taking a huge chance. If the Quarians left the Geth alone there was a possibility of the Geth attacking their family and friends. I don't think the Quarians wanted to take that chance.

Concerning the Genophage, I don't think it was wrong for them to create the disease to end the rebellions; however, I do think it was wrong for them to keep the Genophage even after the Rebellions ended. They should have created a cure when the Krogan did not show any more signs of rebellion. Ending the rebellions with the Genophage saved potentially billions of lives, but should now be cured.

But it still was an active threat, if they cured it, whats stoping the krogan from starting a new war? The fact that they know they'ed make a new genophage? knowing the krogan it wouldnt be surprising if they belived it was there doing the problem got cured (because they were strong enough to beat it or something). curing the genophage after words would of just resultied in contless more deaths.

[nightcobra]

i'm all for curing the genophage but i also think the krogan population should be controlled somehow...
the krogan problem arose in times of peace after the rachni wars, in peaceful times krogans are prone to prosper at an alarming rate so as an idea we should control their number in such a way that even most krogan would agree, by giving them new fights and wars (either for recreational purposes like colosseums or as the first line of defense of explorers in unknown space or as soldiers against threats to the galaxy) since most krogan would choose a fight over settling down if given the choice.


ps: any krogan squads sent to unknown space to defend explorers should be comprised of either only males or females so as to make sure their numbers don't increase in regions we don't control.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 20 février 2012 - 11:52 .

[fatmancory]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i'm all for curing the genophage but i also think the krogan population should be controlled somehow...
the krogan problem arose in times of peace after the rachni wars, in peaceful times krogans are prone to prosper at an alarming rate so as an idea we should control their number in such a way that even most krogan would agree, by giving them new fights and wars (either for recreational purposes like colosseums or as the first line of defense of explorers in unknown space or as soldiers against threats to the galaxy) since most krogan would choose a fight over settling down if given the choice.


ps: any krogan squads sent to unknown space to defend explorers should be comprised of either only males or females so as to make sure their numbers don't increase in regions we don't control.

Remember they are krogan, and any attempt to control them would be taken poorly. The colosseum idea is iffy, as for me it speaks major moral problems, but then again they are krogan, but even if they were up to it, it would hardly make a dent in the populate. Making them the Millitary might of the galaxy could lead to trouble to, after all thats the rebelians started in the first place, your last idea is good though, it would be bad to have multi gender squadrens risking a planet take over.

[Reever]

SirCrimz wrote...

I believe the quarians were right to attempt to destroy their creations. Why? Because I'm sure as hell most of you would do the same if you understood the implications of a machine having the capability of killing your family and friends. Creating the geth was a mistake and the quarians paid for it, but they weren't wrong by trying to destroy what they created to protect their people. At the time Quarians were not aware of them having any kind of sense of morality. But now that the remnants of the Mourning War have settled and with the help of Commander Shepard's and Tali's  new understanding of the geth, it would be in the Quarian's and Geth's interest to establish peace. Giving the Quarian's their homeworld back and living peace with the Geth. All in all, I think it was a very costly, but understandable misunderstanding.

And for those of you who say that you don't think the Geth would've retaliated aggressively after becoming more aware of their existence, that's taking a huge chance. If the Quarians left the Geth alone there was a possibility of the Geth attacking their family and friends. I don't think the Quarians wanted to take that chance.

Concerning the Genophage, I don't think it was wrong for them to create the disease to end the rebellions; however, I do think it was wrong for them to keep the Genophage even after the Rebellions ended. They should have created a cure when the Krogan did not show any more signs of rebellion. Ending the rebellions with the Genophage saved potentially billions of lives, but should now be cured.

1) But that´s where the first and most grave flaw is: organics thinking AIs MUST be as bad as they are. If they had tried to open a dialogue, to resolve this peacefully, who knows what would have happened.
I know, nobody probably would have reacted this way, as you pointed out already, but this is a flaw of organics.

2) The biggest problem here was uplifting the krogan without them being ready...
I think the Genophage was better than eradicating them outright, but they should at least have tried to somehow remain in contact with the Krogan and try some...re-education? Know it sounds stupid, but how the hell do you want to cope with such a species?
I mean, even my full-paragon-idealist Shepard would wipe them out if they don´t come to reason after the war ( when they´ll presumably have the genophage cured ^^).

If there isn´t a change in mentality, the whole mess will start all over.

[nightcobra]

fatmancory wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i'm all for curing the genophage but i also think the krogan population should be controlled somehow...
the krogan problem arose in times of peace after the rachni wars, in peaceful times krogans are prone to prosper at an alarming rate so as an idea we should control their number in such a way that even most krogan would agree, by giving them new fights and wars (either for recreational purposes like colosseums or as the first line of defense of explorers in unknown space or as soldiers against threats to the galaxy) since most krogan would choose a fight over settling down if given the choice.


ps: any krogan squads sent to unknown space to defend explorers should be comprised of either only males or females so as to make sure their numbers don't increase in regions we don't control.

Remember they are krogan, and any attempt to control them would be taken poorly. The colosseum idea is iffy, as for me it speaks major moral problems, but then again they are krogan, but even if they were up to it, it would hardly make a dent in the populate. Making them the Millitary might of the galaxy could lead to trouble to, after all thats the rebelians started in the first place, your last idea is good though, it would be bad to have multi gender squadrens risking a planet take over.

the difference is in the method of establishing populational control of the krogan but making it the krogan's choice instead of being forced upon them. the rebellions started with the population growth of the krogan when they "colonized/invaded" planets more hospitable than tuchanka making them a growing threat in the eyes of the council races. by making sure that squads are consisted of only one gender groups and by enticing the krogan to fight worthy adversaries in unexplored inhospitable worlds making them honored warriors in their own culture...in my eyes it would be a way to control their numbers while respecting their way of living.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 20 février 2012 - 12:32 .

[fatmancory]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fatmancory wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i'm all for curing the genophage but i also think the krogan population should be controlled somehow...
the krogan problem arose in times of peace after the rachni wars, in peaceful times krogans are prone to prosper at an alarming rate so as an idea we should control their number in such a way that even most krogan would agree, by giving them new fights and wars (either for recreational purposes like colosseums or as the first line of defense of explorers in unknown space or as soldiers against threats to the galaxy) since most krogan would choose a fight over settling down if given the choice.


ps: any krogan squads sent to unknown space to defend explorers should be comprised of either only males or females so as to make sure their numbers don't increase in regions we don't control.

Remember they are krogan, and any attempt to control them would be taken poorly. The colosseum idea is iffy, as for me it speaks major moral problems, but then again they are krogan, but even if they were up to it, it would hardly make a dent in the populate. Making them the Millitary might of the galaxy could lead to trouble to, after all thats the rebelians started in the first place, your last idea is good though, it would be bad to have multi gender squadrens risking a planet take over.

the difference is in the method of establishing populational control of the krogan but making it the krogan's choice instead of being forced upon them. the rebellions started with the population growth of the krogan when they "colonized/invaded" planets more hospitable than tuchanka making them a growing threat in the eyes of the council races. by making sure that squads are consisted of only one gender groups and by enticing the krogan to fight worthy adversaries in inhospitable worlds making them honored warriors in their own culture...in my eyes it would be a way to control their numbers while respecting their way of living.

I misunderstood you at first, making new conlines with just one gender is a terrible idea, the point of new colenies is to expand, the krogan would not be able to do this affectively, and theres no way in hell they'd agree with it. Then theirs the problem of when they run out of things to fight, witch they will edvenchually. what then? do we discard then like with the racnia wars?

[nightcobra]

fatmancory wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fatmancory wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

i'm all for curing the genophage but i also think the krogan population should be controlled somehow...
the krogan problem arose in times of peace after the rachni wars, in peaceful times krogans are prone to prosper at an alarming rate so as an idea we should control their number in such a way that even most krogan would agree, by giving them new fights and wars (either for recreational purposes like colosseums or as the first line of defense of explorers in unknown space or as soldiers against threats to the galaxy) since most krogan would choose a fight over settling down if given the choice.


ps: any krogan squads sent to unknown space to defend explorers should be comprised of either only males or females so as to make sure their numbers don't increase in regions we don't control.

Remember they are krogan, and any attempt to control them would be taken poorly. The colosseum idea is iffy, as for me it speaks major moral problems, but then again they are krogan, but even if they were up to it, it would hardly make a dent in the populate. Making them the Millitary might of the galaxy could lead to trouble to, after all thats the rebelians started in the first place, your last idea is good though, it would be bad to have multi gender squadrens risking a planet take over.

the difference is in the method of establishing populational control of the krogan but making it the krogan's choice instead of being forced upon them. the rebellions started with the population growth of the krogan when they "colonized/invaded" planets more hospitable than tuchanka making them a growing threat in the eyes of the council races. by making sure that squads are consisted of only one gender groups and by enticing the krogan to fight worthy adversaries in inhospitable worlds making them honored warriors in their own culture...in my eyes it would be a way to control their numbers while respecting their way of living.

I misunderstood you at first, making new conlines with just one gender is a terrible idea, the point of new colenies is to expand, the krogan would not be able to do this affectively, and theres no way in hell they'd agree with it. Then theirs the problem of when they run out of things to fight, witch they will edvenchually. what then? do we discard then like with the racnia wars?

i didn't say for the krogan to have mono gendered colonies, but mono gendered squads in their armies, to make sure there's no mingling in unexplored space where the squads would be deployed (think of them as the warriors in a scout mission kinda like teal'c in SG-1).

it's a big universe, even if somehow there's a period of time where there's not any species in unknown space that isn't hostile and dangerous there's always the recreational contingent, normally it's only the males that fight among each other to prove themselves to the females with some casualties along the way. if a male dies that's no problem to make a dent in the population growth but if a female dies that's another story. i'd say that to further control the populational growth, to convince the krogan to allow the females to battle each other to prove themselves as well in order to have less fertile females in number but also adering to krogan motto "survival of the fittest", including females to this motto as well.  

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 20 février 2012 - 12:48 .

[fatmancory]

nightcobra8928 wrote...



i didn't say for the krogan to have mono gendered colonies, but mono gendered squads in their armies, to make sure there's no mingling in unexplored space where the squads would be deployed (think of them as the warriors in a scout mission kinda like teal'c in SG-1).

it's a big universe, even if somehow there's a period of time where there's not any species in unknown space that isn't hostile and dangerous there's always the recreational contingent, normally it's only the males that fight among each other to prove themselves to the females with some casualties along the way. if a male dies that's no problem to make a dent in the population growth but if a female dies that's another story. i'd say that to further control the populational growth, to convince the krogan to allow the females to battle each other to prove themselves as well in order to have less fertile females in number but also adering to krogan motto "survival of the fittest", including females to this motto as well.  

Seems i did not misunderstand you,  i agree with same gendered squads. The females seem to be pretty much considered equals as warriors though, the only reason the things are as they are is because of the genophage, this becomes aparent with the atitude from the female krogan in the demo.

[nightcobra]

fatmancory wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...



i didn't say for the krogan to have mono gendered colonies, but mono gendered squads in their armies, to make sure there's no mingling in unexplored space where the squads would be deployed (think of them as the warriors in a scout mission kinda like teal'c in SG-1).

it's a big universe, even if somehow there's a period of time where there's not any species in unknown space that isn't hostile and dangerous there's always the recreational contingent, normally it's only the males that fight among each other to prove themselves to the females with some casualties along the way. if a male dies that's no problem to make a dent in the population growth but if a female dies that's another story. i'd say that to further control the populational growth, to convince the krogan to allow the females to battle each other to prove themselves as well in order to have less fertile females in number but also adering to krogan motto "survival of the fittest", including females to this motto as well.  

Seems i did not misunderstand you,  i agree with same gendered squads. The females seem to be pretty much considered equals as warriors though, the only reason the things are as they are is because of the genophage, this becomes aparent with the atitude from the female krogan in the demo.

considered equals as warriors yes, but i'd wager they'd still be too valuable to the krogan even after the genophage.
by appealing to their "survival of the fittest" mindset, i hope that the females could control their numbers through combat either by sending them in squads to unexplored space, fight in armies, etc. 
basically a "cultural genophage" of their own choice.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 20 février 2012 - 12:57 .

[fatmancory]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fatmancory wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...



i didn't say for the krogan to have mono gendered colonies, but mono gendered squads in their armies, to make sure there's no mingling in unexplored space where the squads would be deployed (think of them as the warriors in a scout mission kinda like teal'c in SG-1).

it's a big universe, even if somehow there's a period of time where there's not any species in unknown space that isn't hostile and dangerous there's always the recreational contingent, normally it's only the males that fight among each other to prove themselves to the females with some casualties along the way. if a male dies that's no problem to make a dent in the population growth but if a female dies that's another story. i'd say that to further control the populational growth, to convince the krogan to allow the females to battle each other to prove themselves as well in order to have less fertile females in number but also adering to krogan motto "survival of the fittest", including females to this motto as well.  

Seems i did not misunderstand you,  i agree with same gendered squads. The females seem to be pretty much considered equals as warriors though, the only reason the things are as they are is because of the genophage, this becomes aparent with the atitude from the female krogan in the demo.

considered equals as warriors yes, but i'd wager they'd still be too valuable to the krogan even after the genophage.
by appealing to their "survival of the fittest" mindset, i hope that the females could control their numbers through combat either by sending them in squads to unexplored space, fight in armies, etc. 
basically a "cultural genophage" of their own choice.

at this point it hard to contieu further, as i dont know enough about krogan pre genophage culture. Working as the counicls army is a possbile soulition, though there needs to be a way to maintine the population in times of peace, remeber that the normal birth rates are 1000 times more than they are now, imagine if in ME 1 or 2 when ever there was a krogan you'ed instead have to fight 1000 of them. Hell even 10 for each krogan would make the game unblevedly hard.

[nightcobra]

fatmancory wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

fatmancory wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...



i didn't say for the krogan to have mono gendered colonies, but mono gendered squads in their armies, to make sure there's no mingling in unexplored space where the squads would be deployed (think of them as the warriors in a scout mission kinda like teal'c in SG-1).

it's a big universe, even if somehow there's a period of time where there's not any species in unknown space that isn't hostile and dangerous there's always the recreational contingent, normally it's only the males that fight among each other to prove themselves to the females with some casualties along the way. if a male dies that's no problem to make a dent in the population growth but if a female dies that's another story. i'd say that to further control the populational growth, to convince the krogan to allow the females to battle each other to prove themselves as well in order to have less fertile females in number but also adering to krogan motto "survival of the fittest", including females to this motto as well.  

Seems i did not misunderstand you,  i agree with same gendered squads. The females seem to be pretty much considered equals as warriors though, the only reason the things are as they are is because of the genophage, this becomes aparent with the atitude from the female krogan in the demo.

considered equals as warriors yes, but i'd wager they'd still be too valuable to the krogan even after the genophage.
by appealing to their "survival of the fittest" mindset, i hope that the females could control their numbers through combat either by sending them in squads to unexplored space, fight in armies, etc. 
basically a "cultural genophage" of their own choice.

at this point it hard to contieu further, as i dont know enough about krogan pre genophage culture. Working as the counicls army is a possbile soulition, though there needs to be a way to maintine the population in times of peace, remeber that the normal birth rates are 1000 times more than they are now, imagine if in ME 1 or 2 when ever there was a krogan you'ed instead have to fight 1000 of them. Hell even 10 for each krogan would make the game unblevedly hard.

the 1000 bigger birth rate isn't exactly the norm either but the side effect of krogan colonizing worlds that were far more hospitable than their home world, before the salarians encountered the krogan the planet was in a nuclear winter and the krogan adapted to tuchanka by having a very high birth rate to counteract the also very high death rate due to their own planet's harsh conditions. 
by making sure that the planets the krogan colonize are of similar conditions to tuchanka, the very high birth ratio can be averted.  
in order to convince them to colonize these types of worlds, my guess is that again we have to appeal to their own "adversity makes the best krogan" culture. 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 20 février 2012 - 01:17 .

[fatmancory]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

the 1000 bigger birth rate isn't exactly the norm either but the side effect of krogan colonizing worlds that were far more hospitable than their home world, before the salarians encountered the krogan the planet was in a nuclear winter and the krogan adapted to tuchanka by having a very high birth rate to counteract the also very high death rate due to their own planet's harsh conditions. 
by making sure that the planets the krogan colonize are of similar conditions to tuchanka, the very high birth ratio can be averted.  
in order to convince them to colonize these types of worlds, my guess is that again we have to appeal to their own "adversity makes the best krogan" culture. 

I could see this working, its not perfect, but it is an option. We would probably need a sperate force to help maintane these policyes though, at least one to rival the krogans.

[Descy_]

 Pro Quarian, Pro Krogan.

[Eire Icon]

varterral wrote...

I'd go Quarians and Salarians. I don't need fat, stupid and hostile frog people to win the war.

I'd have to go along with this. I'm hoping the option is there to extermindate the Geth once and for all. I would be pleased to have that as my Shepards legacy

[SirCrimz]

Sometimes, I think (like the Rachni) the Krogan at the time might have been indoctrinated. There isn't much reason to believe they weren't. Sure they are an aggressive species, but I don't really see them trying for galactic conquest unless the Krogan leadership (Overlord Kredak perhaps?) made them fight.

Modifié par SirCrimz, 20 février 2012 - 07:41 .

[Mhorhe83]

SirCrimz wrote...

Sometimes, I think (like the Rachni) the Krogan at the time might have been indoctrinated. There isn't much reason to believe they weren't. Sure they are an aggressive species, but I don't really see them trying for galactic conquest unless the Krogan leadership (Overlord Kredak perhaps?) made them fight.

I wouldn't say so.. Indoctrination shouldn't even be a one-trick pony for every problem in the galaxy. It's used often enough as it is already.

Besides, it doesn't make sense. In case of the Rachni, you could control the queens and make them hyper-active - and through them the entire Rachni race.

But the Krogan are individuals, and individualistic to boot. Aggressive. Violent. Territorial. Fertile. To cut to the chase, they're Space Orcs, or Warhammer 40 k Orks if you will.

It would be next to impossible to control them short of a species-wide massive indoctrination - which would require more than one or a few Reapers.

And their nature being what it is, it's not odd they turned out like they did.

[Mhorhe83]

SirCrimz wrote...

Sometimes, I think (like the Rachni) the Krogan at the time might have been indoctrinated. There isn't much reason to believe they weren't. Sure they are an aggressive species, but I don't really see them trying for galactic conquest unless the Krogan leadership (Overlord Kredak perhaps?) made them fight.

I wouldn't say so.. Indoctrination shouldn't even be a one-trick pony for every problem in the galaxy. It's used often enough as it is already.

Besides, it doesn't make sense. In case of the Rachni, you could control the queens and make them hyper-active - and through them the entire Rachni race.

But the Krogan are individuals, and individualistic to boot. Aggressive. Violent. Territorial. Fertile. To cut to the chase, they're Space Orcs, or Warhammer 40 k Orks if you will.

It would be next to impossible to control them short of a species-wide massive indoctrination - which would require more than one or a few Reapers.

And their nature being what it is, it's not odd they turned out like they did.

[rex343]

Feel like the Krogan will be Krogan they are not going to change but with Wrex I think he might be able to unite them and put off there fight with the salarians until the reaper threat is gone and if the quarians open up talk with the geth i think they can come together.

[greatgeek]

Pro-peace, anit-genophage but pro-population control