131 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexXIV]

So someone got paid to write a blog about how Mass Effect is the best thing that happened to humankind just when the game is 3 weeks from release? Anyone really surprised? Bioware are really good at something like integrating companions in their games and writing dialogue/cutscenes. But the overall plot is a mediocore rip off of things that already exist. Yeah, nothing special about it.

The black people/women in power thing especially made me laugh. Talking about how iconic Shep is a typical white male and Jakob is the only black crew member and is turned into something of a caricature of a 'black man'. Good job saving the world Bioware. Nah it is all about money, they even admit it without blushing. Their decision making process is as streamlined as their main plots. Will this feature pay off? Yes/No.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 18 février 2012 - 10:35 .

[mjharper]

 The article linked to revels in overstatement.

Now, I love Mass Effect. It's possibly my favourite franchise of all time. And I think Shepard is a great lead, and the Normandy is a great ship. Given a successful transition from game to movie / series, Mass Effect could well compete with some of the better known series. But this author is simply wrong. And here's a couple of reasons.

1) Sexuality

Great, we can create a female Shepard. But let's face it, whether or not Jennifer Hale's voice acting is superior to Mark Meer's, the default Shep is male. He's the face of Mass Effect everywhere, and the 'official' femshep of ME3 doesn't even truly resemble the design that was voted for by fans. Like it or not, femshep will always be secondary; when the movie is made, what's the chance that Shepard will be female? Zero.

And if we're honest, sexuality doesn't fair much better. Sure, a female Shepard can romance an Asari, but that doesn't count as lesbianism, as Asari are mono-gendered: they only look like women. There isn't actually a lesbian character in ME1 or ME2. Kelly Chambers may be bi, but that's it. And gay men get nothing: there is no male-male romance at all. 

I'm a straight guy. But it's clear to me that, at a time when countries and even religious groups are beginning to accept same-sex marriage, Mass Effect comes up short here.

2) Social commentary / Philosophy

To begin with, Mass Effect in no way "eclipses and engulfs" othe sci-fi universes in terms of its social critique or philosophy. It's good, no doubt. But it isn't a patch on, say, Battlestar Gallactica. For example, the author claims that ME is concerned with humanity's place in the universe, but really, how far does ME take that? The author is flat-out wrong for thinking that humanity is weak and insignificant in ME: regardless of your choices in the first game, humanity is in a position of power. Either humanity has taken control of the Council completely, or forced its way onto the Council with a show of military strength. Both states may be justifiable in the wake of Sovereign's attack. But other races are jealous and wary because humanity has achieved such influence after less than three decades. Sure, groups like Cerberus might consider this to be a compromise, and might want humanity to go it alone, but humanity's place in the universe is, Reapers aside, assured.

Just compare that with Adama's rhetorical question in the first episode of BSG: Why do we deserve to survive? That's a whole different ball game. And ME never touches on issues like occupation, torture, or suicde bombings (can you spell Iraq?).

I'm not trying to say that ME doesn't have something to say, or that compared to something like Star Wars (which I detest) it isn't thoughtful; but to think that it has more depth than BSG or Dune can only mean that the author has failed to understand what those series are about.

_____

In the end, the author wants ME to be more than it is, and will go to any lengths to prove his point. This kind of thing just gives fans a bad name.

Modifié par mjharper, 18 février 2012 - 10:39 .

[tetrisblock4x1]

Humanity wasn't exactly favored in the beginning of ME1 though.... they weren't exactly doing it tough, but up until the epilogue of ME1 the series really did distinguish itself in regards to human importance in the fictional galaxy as the author of the blog said. But as we know Bioware have pissed away that opportunity at the end of ME when humans are accept by the council, assuming that humanity chose to let them live in the end. It didn't have to improve humanities place in the galaxy. And then in ME2 Bioware continues this trend of putting short term gain ahead of everything else by persisting with the old style of humans > everyone, because people like fiction where humanity is on top.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 18 février 2012 - 11:01 .

[mjharper]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

Humanity wasn't exactly favored in the beginning of ME1 though.... they weren't exactly doing it tough, but up until the epilogue of ME1 the series really did distinguish itself in regards to human importance in the fictional galaxy as the author of the blog said. But as we know Bioware have pissed away that opportunity at the end of ME when humans are accept by the council, assuming that humanity chose to let them live in the end. It didn't have to improve humanities place in the galaxy. And then in ME2 Bioware continues this trend of putting short term gain ahead of everything else by persisting with the old style of humans > everyone, because people like fiction where humanity is on top.

I kind of disagree about ME1, although I see what you're saying. Remember the Volus ambassador who keeps whining about the preferential treatment of humanity, about how they already have their own office, and so on? Sure, at that point humanity has not yet been admitted to the Council, but it's clear to everybody that it is only a matter of time before it happens. In the space of three decades, humanity had become the most important non-council race. I don't see how that can really be considered as 'insignificant', unless your definition of 'significant' involves 'being on the top and ruling everybody'. In which case, choosing to abandon the Council will lead to precisely that in ME2.

[Grim Intent]

i love how people can blatantly bash the mass effect universe in the MASS EFFECT community forum... it gets me every time. if you truly dislike the game that much, why troll it's forums? do you people really have nothing better to do? ah, but i digress... i thought the article was very well written and brought up some very valid points about modern sci-fi and how mass effect brings a more unique concept to the mainstream. sure, it may not be the BEST as the author states, but it's a pretty damn engaging story and the universe is VERY well fleshed out.

Modifié par Grim Intent, 18 février 2012 - 11:21 .

[AlexXIV]

Grim Intent wrote...

i love how people can blatantly bash the mass effect universe in the MASS EFFECT community forum... it gets me every time. if you truly dislike the game that much, why troll it's forums? do you people really have nothing better to do? ah, but i digress... i thought the article was very well written and brought up some very valid points about modern sci-fi and how mass effect brings a more unique concept to the mainstream. sure, it may not be the BEST as the author states, but it's a pretty damn engaging story and the universe is VERY well fleshed out.

Lol. So the only people who should have a right of opinon here are brownnosers? I can read from your 'contribution' that you think that.

[mjharper]

@Grim Intent: Did you actually read anything anybody wrote here? Nobody has said anything about disliking the game. The most anyone has said is that the article is overblown and pretentious.

[incinerator950]

You know, if ME 3 fails horribly, Biowares image is going to be ruined for a while.

[tetrisblock4x1]

I don't know what humanity had to do to get where they were at the start of the trilogy 30 years after first contact, all I know is that the people in charge didn't make it easy for Shepard or Udina. Using the Volus ambassadors whining about preferential treatment of humanity is pretty flimsy evidence of humanity getting special treatment considering how the councilors treated Shepard and Udina. He might have been talking **** and hyperbole for all I know. Was he even a named character? All I know for certain is that The council made life hard for us and that humans were fending for themselves without even token support to defend the colonies. They didn't get any undue favors in ME1 that I can think of up until after Sovereign.

[tetrisblock4x1]

Grim Intent wrote...

i love how people can blatantly bash the mass effect universe in the MASS EFFECT community forum... it gets me every time. if you truly dislike the game that much, why troll it's forums? do you people really have nothing better to do? ah, but i digress... i thought the article was very well written and brought up some very valid points about modern sci-fi and how mass effect brings a more unique concept to the mainstream. sure, it may not be the BEST as the author states, but it's a pretty damn engaging story and the universe is VERY well fleshed out.

Go away. If you can't handle disagreements without taking it personal and calling them trolls then the internet is not for you. There is nothing wrong with people debating and disagreeing over anything on the internet. Nothing.

Modifié par tetrisblock4x1, 18 février 2012 - 11:34 .

[Grim Intent]

LOL. okay kids i can see what i've said has made you upset. notice that i didn't point out any one person as the person responsible for what i was claiming and yet you all immediately jump to conclusions... i was making an observation, chill out. i wasn't directing it at any of you.
i can handle disagreements just fine, i just think that a good majority of people that knock mass effect's story have no real points as to why it's bad, or mediocre, or whatever they think it is. oh, and by the way calling something pretentious doesn't make you sound intelligent, ESPECIALLY when it was pretty obvious to begin with... sure the writing may have been a little over-zealous at times, but he did bring up some good points. that's all i was saying. i by no means think that mass effect is the greatest piece of sci-fi of all time but i think it's pretty damn good sci-fi with characters that you can genuinely relate to and an epic struggle for survival against a seemingly omnipotent adversary.

[Obro]

"why it's the most important scifi franchise of our generation"

**** please it' pure fanboy writing. Nothing in ME is original to be called "the most important scifi franchise". Maybe important as in sells good but that;'s about it. Every race is seen elsewhere and plot is pretty standard SF thing I mean it's pretty much Masters of Orion 2 with different names.

Person writing this article doesn't know what he's talking about.

[LGTX]

Great read, it correctly sums up the philosophical questions ME raises in me, albeit with a few lore errors. But those are mainly irrelevant to the point the writer is making anyhow.

[mjharper]

tetrisblock4x1 wrote...

I don't know what humanity had to do to get where they were at the start of the trilogy 30 years after first contact, all I know is that the people in charge didn't make it easy for Shepard or Udina. Using the Volus ambassadors whining about preferential treatment of humanity is pretty flimsy evidence of humanity getting special treatment considering how the councilors treated Shepard and Udina. He might have been talking **** and hyperbole for all I know. Was he even a named character? All I know for certain is that The council made life hard for us and that humans were fending for themselves without even token support to defend the colonies. They didn't get any undue favors in ME1 that I can think of up until after Sovereign.

The Volus ambassador is named, he's called Din Korlack. The reason I mentioned him was because there is some discussion between him and the Elcor ambassador, Calyn, about whether humanity has received preferential treatment. Din thinks they have, and is offended by their quick rise, and Calyn thinks they haven't, that humanity's standing is in keeping with their contribution. You can hear similar discussions around the Citadel in ME1; I seem to remember a Turian and a Salarian up in the Council tower a well.

You're absolutely right, the Council don't make it easy for humanity, and even when humanity joins the Council it seems to get the short end of the stick. But thoughout ME1 there are rumours that the hot money is on humanity joining the Council soon, which is fairly extraordinary if you consider that the Turians were the last race admitted, some 1,200 years ago, and it took them about 150 years to rise to the Council. If wikia is correct, it took nearly a century after the Turians had subdued the Krogans before that happened as well.

[Matt251287]

Han Shot First wrote...

The OP's link

Thanks Greg.

Great read, it's just a shame that ME2 slightly deviated from that path and ME3 is anybodies guess

[mjharper]

Grim Intent wrote...

LOL. okay kids i can see what i've said has made you upset. notice that i didn't point out any one person as the person responsible for what i was claiming and yet you all immediately jump to conclusions... i was making an observation, chill out. i wasn't directing it at any of you.
i can handle disagreements just fine, i just think that a good majority of people that knock mass effect's story have no real points as to why it's bad, or mediocre, or whatever they think it is. oh, and by the way calling something pretentious doesn't make you sound intelligent, ESPECIALLY when it was pretty obvious to begin with... sure the writing may have been a little over-zealous at times, but he did bring up some good points. that's all i was saying. i by no means think that mass effect is the greatest piece of sci-fi of all time but i think it's pretty damn good sci-fi with characters that you can genuinely relate to and an epic struggle for survival against a seemingly omnipotent adversary.

Fair enough. Btw, I know what 'pretentious' is. A good example would be name-dropping Descartes and Hume into a discussion of computer game, which is precisely what the author does.

Modifié par mjharper, 18 février 2012 - 12:08 .

[Phaedon]

Gabey5 wrote...

"why it's the most important scifi franchise of our generation"

what is "our generation"?

~30 years.

Because it has much competition in that regard and mass effect while good does not come close to say star trek and is a rips of or is "inspired by" other series.

lolno.

[Grim Intent]

mjharper wrote...

Grim Intent wrote...

LOL. okay kids i can see what i've said has made you upset. notice that i didn't point out any one person as the person responsible for what i was claiming and yet you all immediately jump to conclusions... i was making an observation, chill out. i wasn't directing it at any of you.
i can handle disagreements just fine, i just think that a good majority of people that knock mass effect's story have no real points as to why it's bad, or mediocre, or whatever they think it is. oh, and by the way calling something pretentious doesn't make you sound intelligent, ESPECIALLY when it was pretty obvious to begin with... sure the writing may have been a little over-zealous at times, but he did bring up some good points. that's all i was saying. i by no means think that mass effect is the greatest piece of sci-fi of all time but i think it's pretty damn good sci-fi with characters that you can genuinely relate to and an epic struggle for survival against a seemingly omnipotent adversary.

Fair enough. Btw, I know what 'pretentious' is. A good example would be name-dropping Descartes and Hume into a discussion of computer game, which is precisely what the author does.

true enough, the author does say a few contradictory and/or silly things, but i thought he made some very good points and it was well written, regardless of the super fanboyism dust he sprinkled all over the article. i think he was being pretentious unintentionally knowing the mass effect community would inevitably critique the article. we can be PRETTY harsh critics, after all.

[Duncaaaaaan]

I'm sorry but when it said the Mass Effect universe contributes more than Star Trek ever did I couldn't help but laugh out loud.

As someone else said, it is a pretentious load of crap.

If you take it seriously, if you think it's a good read, then you're out of your mind.

[Phaedon]

But Star Trek is not even a franchise of our generation. It's from the mid-60s.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

Edit: On second thought, forget it. Don't want to derail this thread.

Modifié par Spaghetti_Ninja, 18 février 2012 - 12:35 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

If you take it seriously, if you think it's a good read, then you're out of your mind.

Look, while the author is a bit too hyperbolic in places, it's a fantastic read and indeed raises some legitimate points on the significance of Mass Effect for modern SciFi.

"It's one of the most important pieces of science fiction narrative of our generation. Mass Effect goes so far beyond other fictional universes in ways that you may not have yet realized. It is cosmic in scope and scale."

This I whole heartedly agree with.

Mass Effect will go down in history as the defining piece of Science Fiction in our generation. It deals with all manner of complex issues and themes and expresses them so well within it's game mechanics that provide incredible emotional involvement. You care and you think while you play Mass Effect, on such a deep level that's unrivalled by other games or most fiction altogether. Play the demo instead of posting negative things. You'll see how much of an intense and transcendent narrative experience it truly is.

Plus the multiplayer ain't half bad, either.

Modifié par CrustyBot, 18 février 2012 - 12:31 .

[mjharper]

Grim Intent wrote...

mjharper wrote...

Grim Intent wrote...

LOL. okay kids i can see what i've said has made you upset. notice that i didn't point out any one person as the person responsible for what i was claiming and yet you all immediately jump to conclusions... i was making an observation, chill out. i wasn't directing it at any of you.
i can handle disagreements just fine, i just think that a good majority of people that knock mass effect's story have no real points as to why it's bad, or mediocre, or whatever they think it is. oh, and by the way calling something pretentious doesn't make you sound intelligent, ESPECIALLY when it was pretty obvious to begin with... sure the writing may have been a little over-zealous at times, but he did bring up some good points. that's all i was saying. i by no means think that mass effect is the greatest piece of sci-fi of all time but i think it's pretty damn good sci-fi with characters that you can genuinely relate to and an epic struggle for survival against a seemingly omnipotent adversary.

Fair enough. Btw, I know what 'pretentious' is. A good example would be name-dropping Descartes and Hume into a discussion of computer game, which is precisely what the author does.

true enough, the author does say a few contradictory and/or silly things, but i thought he made some very good points and it was well written, regardless of the super fanboyism dust he sprinkled all over the article. i think he was being pretentious unintentionally knowing the mass effect community would inevitably critique the article. we can be PRETTY harsh critics, after all.

We can indeed 

I guess my main problem with the article is that super fanboyism. It just gets too much in the way of the points, and determines how they are argued. The hyperbole lessens the effect by making the game seem more than it is. I love Mass Effect; I just sat there with a big grin on my face as the credits to the first game rolled. It does have something to say, and I look forward to being challenged in ME3. But stating that its the most important sci-fi of our generation is just too much to swallow.

[Matt251287]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

I'm sorry but when it said the Mass Effect universe contributes more than Star Trek ever did I couldn't help but laugh out loud.

As someone else said, it is a pretentious load of crap.

If you take it seriously, if you think it's a good read, then you're out of your mind.

You don't have to agree with every point made in an article to think it's a good read, i'm wondering what books you care to read?, being so elitist.

 

I don't know why people get so angry about the comparison to Star-Trek? Ofcourse, Mass-Effect could not exist without Star-Trek, there is no question of that;

But given i may be younger than you, when i watch Star-Trek i mostly find it to be fanciful garbage with a fresh spacetime anomaly every episode, too many made-up technologies with no sensible structure, badly lacking realism.

Mass-Effect brings the Status-Quo foward, i'm not saying it's better than Star-Trek in it's time, but it's better now.

[mjharper]

CrustyBot wrote...

Mass Effect will go down in history as the defining piece of Science Fiction in our generation. It deals with all manner of complex issues and themes and expresses them so well within it's game mechanics that provide incredible emotional involvement. You care and you think while you play Mass Effect, on such a deep level that's unrivalled by other games or most fiction altogether. Play the demo instead of posting negative things. You'll see how much of an intense and transcendent narrative experience it truly is.

This is exactly my problem. Mass Effect is a lot of fun, and it's pretty thoughtful, but going down in history as the defining piece of sci-fi for our generation? No. Simply no. ME does not, in any way, compare to something like Battlestar Gallactica for the issues it raises or the way it presents them.