158 réponses à ce sujet

[II Durbin II]

[quote]Assumedkilla wrote...

[quote]Sardart wrote...

[quote]II Durbin II wrote...

Played plenty of games, I find the "grind" to get stuff for you mp character satisying.
If I want to play COD or BF....I'll go play COD or BF

next[/quote] In all these games the player is "grinding", but the difference here is that you're blind to what you're getting and have no power over it. 

[/quote]

I find the random nature refreshing and wanting more. 
Again....if I wanted COD......

[Ricvenart]

I think it's great, why should the "skilled" only get better gear anyway.
I typically score 20-30k, about the average of what I've seen, yet like 5 mins ago I unlocked the second tier Assault rifle I've been using. Yet have the 6th tier Sniper Rifle, so it's not like the game has been favourable to me but regardless I still love it.
Although it's not easy, it's hardly a nightmare to earn lots of cash, the current system in generous to all and games seem to be friendly for it. End of the day we all have to take part for bonuses and are all slaves to lady luck, just cause it's not going your way doesn't make it unfair to you, regardless of "skill".
I like it so much I can't wait to do it all again in the full game. I get the impression that many people have been pleasantly shocked because it's not COD, they aren't into those games, don't buy them and were not looking forward to that aspect in this game.
The worst level up system in a recent game is Skyrim, the finding new weapons is hardly the level up part anyway, although you could loosely compare it to random items in chest of that game.
The real leveling up you do get rewarded for more skill though bonus exp and you get more coins to spend anyway which means you are rewarded in that aspect as well. Complain when instead of getting the weapon you want (not need) you get one you've already recieved, which afaik doesn't happen.

Modifié par Ricvenart, 18 février 2012 - 01:11 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

No, no COD system. No grinding. Kill that with fire. I'm actually enjoying the random unlocks, gives me incentive to try other characters, weapons and equipment.

[Duncaaaaaan]

I kind of like how there aren't little challenges like "kill 100 enemies with assault rifles to unlock the next attachment/assault rifle" because it actually forces me to play in a particular style which I may not like.

Well done to bioware for not giving in to these types of challenges.

Still not too sure about the random starter and veteran packs. Luck can be annoying when it's not on your side.

[Dezerte]

zI Maleficent wrote...

@Dezman8: In theory, your argument is valid. However, the generous granting of experience for personal kills and personally completing objectives results in an abundance of selfishness, regardless of the co-operative nature of the mode.

There is no personal experience granted, everyone's experience is pooled and shared at the end of the game. Me & my buddy received the same amount of experience at the end of the game so I know for 100% this to be true.

Modifié par Dezman8, 18 février 2012 - 01:46 .

[anlk92]

I think it's a great system.

[Spherexius]

It's fantastic in my opinion. I really don't hope Bioware or EA caters to suggestions like this.

[S Atomeha]

Assumedkilla wrote...

I appreciate developers going their own route and not following the ones already made, but this is the first (and hopefully only time) where I'll say I wish they stuck closer to Call of Duty. By that I mean skill based unlocks rather than random/luck ones, which makes no sense at all. Yes, I know COD didn't invent that... just using it as an example. Earning a mod for getting 50 headshots, or unlocking a new gun/alien race for leveling up makes way more sense than buying some freaking Magick cards and hoping for the best. If the lottery system they used was based off my gameplay then it would make sense, but I keep unlocking shotguns, sniper rifles, mods for them, and tech races when I'm an adept who switches between pistols, SMGs, and assault rifles. The lottery system feels like a bad attempt to keep the carrot in front of the horse, which this game doesn't need, since it's actually fun to play.

Nah this is tame compared to Tor's initial RNG pvp bags.. i'm fine with this.

[Hyrist]

Um. See, here's the problem I have with the OP.

He states that he'd rather see a skill based unlock system... That's what the character levels are for. You unlock and upgrade new abilities through progression. The better you do, the more XP you get, the faster you level the class.

Then there's the Skinner Box (that's actually the technical term for random loot/rare drops) system that is in buying the packs. This keeps things interesting as it encourages multiple playthroughs to get more loot and upgrade/unlock different things from the XP system more. The characters you unlock through this system automatically benefit from the XP that you've already collected through the skill system, so there's no loss of invested time waiting for randoms. You assign your points as soon as it's unlocked, and you play away.

It's an incredibly well thought out system, which would have fell through the floor if the gameplay was bad. However, I do believe most of us can agree, multiplayer turned out quite well.

Modifié par Hyrist, 18 février 2012 - 02:44 .

[zI Maleficent]

@Dezman8: I was hoping you would point that out, because it will aid my point to disprove one of the major arguments for this system. Even though they have little reason to do so, people play this game as selfishly as they would any other game with persistent levelling and unlocks. So no, this system is not golden and does not stop selfishness while others promote it. In this regard, it is inherently as flawed as any other progression system.

[m19z]

Persona RED wrote...

It is the demo. As it has been posted, the multiplayer content is approx. half of what it actually is. I'm sure your chances will be greater when the number of valuable unlocks is increased. Also, from what I've read, they will divide the packs even more, so you can narrow your search for particular items. I for one, enjoy this system. Think: If unlocks were dependent on say... how many biotic kills a Vanguard got, wouldn't you imagine that there would be dozens of players forsaking their teammates, just to tack on another number towards an unlock?

I like that they've successfully made unlocks dependent on playing as a team, doing missions and focusing on being an efficient team member.

Any official source confirming that? I know that the number of items in-game is going to be higher, but if they don't divide the packs our chances to get what we want will just be lower.

[Edens]

But I love opening booster packs and finding a holo, I mean uncommon. =(

[ElementL09]

This isn't a bad level up system. Its just simple, you kill an enemy and gain xp and level up your character. Pretty straightforward.

[MythicLegands]

How can people say the random unlocks are great? this is going to kill the game( I would be surprised if reviewers didn't knock off marks from the score) there need to be a proper progression system that can gear people towards the items they want. instead of unlocking the Human male soldier 6 times in eight hours like my random packages.

[Assumedkilla]

Dezman8 wrote...

zI Maleficent wrote...

@Dezman8: In theory, your argument is valid. However, the generous granting of experience for personal kills and personally completing objectives results in an abundance of selfishness, regardless of the co-operative nature of the mode.

There is no personal experience granted, everyone's experience is pooled and shared at the end of the game. Me & my buddy received the same amount of experience at the end of the game so I know for 100% this to be true.

We must be playing different versions of the game... when I play kills, assists, and finishing objectives gains me points. You can even see how well each person is doing mid-game by hitting start (on 360) and at the end of the game. Whether the unlock system was skill based or just dumb luck, like it is now, people would still be trying to be the MVP, which isn't a bad thing as long as they're not hurting the team by straying away or not healing teammates.

[VirtualAlex]

 DIsagree 100%. (With OP)

I love the random unlock system. Make it exciting to open boxes, also encourages you play other classes than the one you always want to play creating more variety.

Stop QQing.

[MythicLegands]

VirtualAlex wrote...

 DIsagree 100%. (With OP)

I love the random unlock system. Make it exciting to open boxes, also encourages you play other classes than the one you always want to play creating more variety.

Stop QQing.

Unless I don't want to play as the class I have because I HAVE nothing else to play has.

Modifié par MythicLegands, 19 février 2012 - 03:29 .

[Falterfire]

I fail to see how random unlocks = less grinding. Let's say we kept the same system of exp/money, but instead of buying a random pack you purchased a specific weapon/upgrade/boost. How on earth does that equal MORE grinding?

Personally I was amused by the randomness for the first couple hours, but after about the seventh time you get an upgrade for an SMG you aren't using instead of the sniper rifle you are, it gets old.

Now maybe if we had a trading system of some variety....

Modifié par Falterfire, 19 février 2012 - 03:26 .

[SeiLah]

I think you're taking this a little out of perspective. You're comparing this game to games like CoD and BF, where the game is actually focused on the multiplayer matches. This game isn't. This game is focused on the single player experience, having this multiplayer as a plus.
The unlock system is actually great for this game. There is no point in playing the multiplayer since it's not the game focus, but the unlocks will keep a few people on it. If it was simply you play this class you unlock it's stuff or you buy specific stuff, people would unlock whatever they wanted, play a few matches with it and never look back. It's the thrill of trying to unlock that one race you want that will keep this game multiplayer alive.

Also, if you keep trying to be the top in points you'll never finish gold.

[WizenSlinky0]

Falterfire wrote...

I fail to see how random unlocks = less grinding. Let's say we kept the same system of exp/money, but instead of buying a random pack you purchased a specific weapon/upgrade/boost. How on earth does that equal MORE grinding?

Personally I was amused by the randomness for the first couple hours, but after about the seventh time you get an upgrade for an SMG you aren't using instead of the sniper rifle you are, it gets old.

Now maybe if we had a trading system of some variety....

Grinding is to complete a series of tasks towards a specific goal. When you can't guarentee you'll unlock something in say, 50,000 credits, that you want you instead simply concentrate on playing the game and completing more matches. No it probably wouldn't still be grinding if you could unlock things individually...but I promise you multiplayer would start to run out of players to fill the roster with before too long.

Most people would unlock the one class/race/weapon they want and then grow bored fairly quickly. The randomness does need to be trimmed a bit by more specific random sets and ones with greater chances of unlocking something good, but it does not need to go away.

[Shadow of Terror]

CyndrusTheWarPig wrote...
Imagine you were playing WoW and the only way to get new gear was to buy one of those random chests and hope/pray you get something for your class.

You're right, what are they thinking.

I mean, it's not like in online games like wow, on offline games like skyrim, that you just happen to go up to chests, or kill enemies to have a random chance to get items now is it?

It's not like in diablo 2, people made classes to "magic find", where they just killed certain bosses over and over again in the hope they would drop something, even though the chances were completely random (they just had gear to increase the chances)  and they just had to kill the enemies over and over again just to get something randomly.

I mean, getting money from killing those bosses and then spending it on a package that gives you random items instead of just dropping from the enemies is a huge difference isn't it?

Mass effect 3 packages are just enemy drops, without slowing down gameplay/fighting over items/looking stupid.

[Jarrett Lee]

I can see why it might not be everyone's cup of tea (I personally love it, and really enjoy the surprise of opening a good pack...).  That said: it's not really going to change other than the fact that your chance to unlock cool stuff will be quite a bit better in the full game. The demo is just a portion of it. Also, really the fun part is playing the actual matches themselves

[Pee Jae]

What Jarrett said^. Also, think of it this way; if you do get a bunch of characters you don't like in the full game or keep getting the same ones, you can import them into your Galaxy at War single player run. I think that's how that works anyway.

[S.ilver]

zI Maleficent wrote...

@Dezman8: I was hoping you would point that out, because it will aid my point to disprove one of the major arguments for this system. Even though they have little reason to do so, people play this game as selfishly as they would any other game with persistent levelling and unlocks. So no, this system is not golden and does not stop selfishness while others promote it. In this regard, it is inherently as flawed as any other progression system.

If you play like this, you'll get destroyed in Gold, thereby depriving your team of one member. And you need EVERYONE contributing to the effort on Gold. People who play like this aren't going to be able to play at the highest level of the game, and therefore aren't going to be taken seriously.

Assumedkilla  wrote... 

We must be playing different versions of the game... when I play kills, assists, and finishing objectives gains me points. You can even see how well each person is doing mid-game by hitting start (on 360) and at the end of the game. Whether the unlock system was skill based or just dumb luck, like it is now, people would still be trying to be the MVP, which isn't a bad thing as long as they're not hurting the team by straying away or not healing teammates.

EVERYONE gets the same XP at the end, and it's a total of all the players points. The point system shows individual performances, but at the end of the day, it only matters if you beat the mission or not.

[trackboy186]

Jarrett Lee wrote...

I can see why it might not be everyone's cup of tea (I personally love it, and really enjoy the surprise of opening a good pack...).  That said: it's not really going to change other than the fact that your chance to unlock cool stuff will be quite a bit better in the full game. The demo is just a portion of it. Also, really the fun part is playing the actual matches themselves

Respectfully, it is an entire package for me and the detraction of enjoyment in one area makes all other aspects lose value. Which is a shame as the multiplayer is really enjoyable.