158 réponses à ce sujet

[Ricvenart]

How come it's fine for you to justify you're dislike of the system but I'm not allow to state a simple fact or why I like the system.

Frankly it only sounds like you hate it so much because you've seen some "unskilled" "new" player that has been lucky enough to get the weapon you want, at this point.

My point is not moot, certainly no more then yours you just missed it completely.

It is entirely up to you what type of weapon you use, when you have that rank X shotgun do you not choose to ignore it because it's not the rank X sniper rifle you want, in favour of keeping the rank I starter one?

Yes more items means you may get more shotguns, as well as increase your chance of getting a different sniper rifle, but what I was point out was, it is simple not true that you will unlock the same shotgun rank X when you already have it, that in turn increases your chance of unlocking the sniper rifle ranks you want.

It's actually remarkably intuitive, encourages trying new things and doesn't real punish or reward you for bad luck, the bonuses are just that, bonuses, they are not needed but provide a nice extra.
It's a level player field, even with my rank II avenger I still do better then many who's had higher rank items. I guess that's just something most multiplayer fans can't stand, level playing fields.

Skyrim thing wasn't really directed at you, and no it's not misinformation at all, did I say you can get iron swords in ME3? or say they are the same game? I was just pointing out to me it is one of the worst leveling up systems I have seen in recent games (the topic title), not due to random items though or not being able to find the right item to disenchant to learn from, but the perk system, the real leveling up part of the game, one which this game has and you do get to tailor yourself.

You're last sentence is just, wow. It says it all really, you can't be bothered to take part because it's not centered around your wants. And again misguided, you're reward is impacted by your performance. But why listen to me, you clear don't want to listen to information developers of it have given, none of it gives you, your weapon of choice. Regarding a comment you made elsewhere claiming the same thing, and you say this system spoonfeeds players.

Two last words. Game. Demo.

Modifié par Ricvenart, 19 février 2012 - 09:13 .

[Hunter-Wolf]

darkblade wrote...

quick frankly if my effort to get rewards is reflected in the rewards i get i have no reason to strive to do the best i can in the game, just to play and occasionally buy a box or two.

Nope .. you clrealy got it wrong ... if you do your best in a game you will get more money, if you play on Gold diffculty you get more money, if you comeplete more objectives per match you get more money .. and with more money you can buy more packages .. and with more packges bought you have a higher chance of getting what you want.

I'm puzzled that you don't realize that .. if someone with little money bought one ticket for a lottery and another worked harder and bought 50 tickets he has a much higher chance of winning.

darkblade wrote...
This system is like having the two super bowl playing teams play
out the whole game then flip a coin for who goes home with the trophy.
Im really not for that, pretty much the laziest reward system imaginable
and i dont apprieciate lazy design in products i spend money on.

I'll still play it just dont expect particularly good performance from me.

Well obviously that's the blight of modern items unlocking systems .. people became programed (indoctrinated if i might say) to play for the unlocks instead of playing the game itself for the enjoyment it brings regadless of the unlocks .. i don't care what unlockcs i get in ME3 MP and that's a good change from the typical stuff that traps you into playing for the unocks themselves rather than to enjoy the gameplay itself.

darkblade wrote...



I'll still play it just dont expect particularly good performance from me.

Your loss

[Nite77]

People, think. Having MORE unlocks in the final game is actually a BAD thing for some of us. Let me explain.
Let's say there are (now, in the demo) 50 things to unlock. I want one. So that's a 1/50, aka 2% chance to get that specific unlock I want.

Now, fast forward to release. Now there's 100 things to unlock, or even 200. I still want the one specific unlock, but now, instead of 2% chance to get that, I have 1%, or even 0.5% chance to acquire that what I want. I, for one, don't call this a good thing. I call it f*cked up.

Also, if that is really true, that all players get equal amount of EXP once the match is over? You know that actually killed multiplayer right there. Join game, AFK, reap rewards. rinse, repeat. This is exactly what most mp-shooters have been desperately trying to get rid of for the last few years - afk leechers.

It just needs a simple script to automatically join a game (and hit ready) over and over again and you're done. Go see a movie while you rack up rewards.

If this was a physical product, I'd send it back as Defective on Arrival.

To those who say that it would get boring after a few days/weeks if everything would be unlocked and/or unlocks would happen non-randomly: You'd have a few days/weeks worth of playing. As it is now, it had ten minutes, then I got bored.

Not everyone enjoys being force-fed "enjoyment" of different kinds for the sake of artificial variety. If you think all players would choose one race/class combination if everything was unlocked from the get-go, your design sucks balls. I'd bet my right hand the game would have MORE variety if everything would be unlocked, because players could choose. Now we are just forced to play with the default choices and everyone is the same.

To the above "Your loss": No, yours. With a better system, you'd had a team mate, now you have a p*ssed off xp-leacher.

Your loss.

[Ricvenart]

Nite77 wrote...

Now, fast forward to release. Now there's 100 things to unlock, or even 200. I still want the one specific unlock, but now, instead of 2% chance to get that, I have 1%, or even 0.5% chance to acquire that what I want. I, for one, don't call this a good thing. I call it f*cked up.

Also, if that is really true, that all players get equal amount of EXP once the match is over? You know that actually killed multiplayer right there. Join game, AFK, reap rewards. rinse, repeat. This is exactly what most mp-shooters have been desperately trying to get rid of for the last few years - afk leechers.

It just needs a simple script to automatically join a game (and hit ready) over and over again and you're done. Go see a movie while you rack up rewards.

If this was a physical product, I'd send it back as Defective on Arrival.

To those who say that it would get boring after a few days/weeks if everything would be unlocked and/or unlocks would happen non-randomly: You'd have a few days/weeks worth of playing. As it is now, it had ten minutes, then I got bored.

Not everyone enjoys being force-fed "enjoyment" of different kinds for the sake of artificial variety. If you think all players would choose one race/class combination if everything was unlocked from the get-go, your design sucks balls. I'd bet my right hand the game would have MORE variety if everything would be unlocked, because players could choose. Now we are just forced to play with the default choices and everyone is the same.

To the above "Your loss": No, yours. With a better system, you'd had a team mate, now you have a p*ssed off xp-leacher.

Your loss.

More types of a gun means theres a better chance you'd get that type of weaponry or an upgrade. That's what they mean by better. It's not a coded message.

Where do you get "everyone gets the same exp" from? Has anyone said that? You take part you get more, what do you expect for a CO-OP game.

You rant on about afking, people not trying and pulling thier weight, yet you then go on to say you got bored of the MP after 10mins, no wonder you don't like the store, you didn't remain interested in the game itself for one round. Why does the store bother you so much if you get bored after the 5th wave? That's not the rewards systems fault either, you were done before you even tried it.

And not everyone likes getting what they want (not need) the second they demand it. It's not our design, it's bioware's. And no not everyone is the same, some haven't unlock the race they want so try something different, some don't have the weapon upgrades they want and still do better then those that do etc etc. If everything was unlocked then everyone would just stick to the type they originally wanted and not discover new things which can surpise them. Although I have to ask am I reading that right? You want a system where EVERYTHING is unlock from the start? No rewards, no store, no credit and no upgrades? You must have hated ME before MP and hate most other games in existance. There are still choices and variety in matches, something you may have seen if you stuck round for more then 10 mins, people even frequently make the choice to ignore a weapon they've got and gained a few upgrades for solely because it's not one they wanted, which is fine too, because they don't need it to be an active useful member of the team.

Actually no it's still his loss, he will be kicked, added to ignore lists, reported and lose out on bonuses for meeting certain quotas. Although he didn't say he'd afk, he just said he won't try as hard because the game isn't giving him what he want. It's not our loss at all, because all he ever was, unable to understand the idea of co-operative gameplay, from his first to the last post, that much is clear, he hates the idea of working together clearly, hates even more that other players in a round are being rewarded when he is some kind of god amoung us unwashed peasants. Wouldn't surpise me if he's one of those rushing off to claim all kills and frequently dying for it, like that some how help defend a position or upload data.

It kind of sounds like you hate the whole game and the slightest of rpg aspects in it. Makes me wonder why you downloaded the demo, was COD or BF 3 servers down or something?

Modifié par Ricvenart, 20 février 2012 - 12:22 .

[Mike Aus]

I'm loving this system. I've also noticed that eventually you end up unlocking most of the stuff anyway.

I imagine that if you hit level X for a weapon, there is a cap. After that perhaps the system stops giving you that weapon and instead starts to give you other ones. Which means that eventually you'll get all the goods. I hope this is the case anyway.

[CerberusSoldier]

Nite77 wrote...

People, think. Having MORE unlocks in the final game is actually a BAD thing for some of us. Let me explain.
Let's say there are (now, in the demo) 50 things to unlock. I want one. So that's a 1/50, aka 2% chance to get that specific unlock I want.

Now, fast forward to release. Now there's 100 things to unlock, or even 200. I still want the one specific unlock, but now, instead of 2% chance to get that, I have 1%, or even 0.5% chance to acquire that what I want. I, for one, don't call this a good thing. I call it f*cked up.

Also, if that is really true, that all players get equal amount of EXP once the match is over? You know that actually killed multiplayer right there. Join game, AFK, reap rewards. rinse, repeat. This is exactly what most mp-shooters have been desperately trying to get rid of for the last few years - afk leechers.

It just needs a simple script to automatically join a game (and hit ready) over and over again and you're done. Go see a movie while you rack up rewards.

If this was a physical product, I'd send it back as Defective on Arrival.

To those who say that it would get boring after a few days/weeks if everything would be unlocked and/or unlocks would happen non-randomly: You'd have a few days/weeks worth of playing. As it is now, it had ten minutes, then I got bored.

Not everyone enjoys being force-fed "enjoyment" of different kinds for the sake of artificial variety. If you think all players would choose one race/class combination if everything was unlocked from the get-go, your design sucks balls. I'd bet my right hand the game would have MORE variety if everything would be unlocked, because players could choose. Now we are just forced to play with the default choices and everyone is the same.

To the above "Your loss": No, yours. With a better system, you'd had a team mate, now you have a p*ssed off xp-leacher.

Your loss.

   


The system is messed up and it needs to be fixed simple as that or removed . But the idea of playing as aliens is the draw to this . Because I can honestly say that this co op while fun . Is no where on the same level as Gears 's horde mode or Spec Ops in COD . reason why oh wow I get unlocks and rasining my character level by playing those . here you get nothing for your XP and its garbage . but eventually they will either fix it or EA will see ME 3 co op die

[X-Frame]

I'm with the OP. I think this is the worst level up system I've experienced. 15 veteran packs opened so far and not one new character. Leveling up guns that I never use. It's wonderful.

[Ricvenart]

Weird didn't show my last post.

Mike Aus wrote...

I'm loving this system. I've also noticed that eventually you end up unlocking most of the stuff anyway.

I
imagine that if you hit level X for a weapon, there is a cap. After
that perhaps the system stops giving you that weapon and instead starts
to give you other ones. Which means that eventually you'll get all the
goods. I hope this is the case anyway.

That is the case. The odd claim that some have recieved X weapon again but most of the time it is an actually upgrade and the rest they are looking into to see if it does happen. Because it's not meant too.
Not that devs saying that stops people from making the same claim time and time again because it's not the weapon they want right now.

You can on the other hand keep getting bonus XP for the same character unlocks for some reason they can't tell us yet. My Guess is perk reset maybe.

Modifié par Ricvenart, 20 février 2012 - 12:18 .

[CerberusSoldier]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

CoD is not skill based unlock. It's like Halo Reach / Gears of War 3. A big time-sink where you have play XX:XX to get Y. There wouldn't be problem with unlocks if you could chose what you want to buy at a Galaxy Mart...

   


COD is about the player no matter what skill you are the game has a way for you to unlock things and have fun . ME 3's co op is completely and utter garbage . They need to dumb this crap

[Storenumber9]

If they could split everything up into separate unlocks, the randomness wouldn't be bad.

Along with having the Recruit and veteran packs, they could have one specifically for weapons and one for characters that's a lot more expensive, but always has a chance for an unlock.

I think that would solve everything. It would have the randomness, but you have less of a chance of getting the same thing, or nothing at all.

[Ender1221]

First of all, the developers have said there will be other packs in the full game which will have a much greater chance of providing rarer items.

As far as the randomness goes, it's actually a really common system that has been working for years in one fashion or another. Being the uber-nerd that I am, I am an avid fan of Magic: The Gathering. In MTG, you buy booster packs which have random cards. You usually get 1 rare, a couple of uncommons, and then the rest are commons. This is the norm. The company doesn't sell individual cards, just booster packs and preconstructed decks which have a couple of decent cards and the rest are all filler. MTG fans have been dealing for years without having a conniption.

Let's rewind a little further back. F***ing Pokemon uses a random system. That's the whole point of that game. How lame would that game have been if you could just pick all the pokemon you wanted from the beginning. You didn't see all the little kids screaming their balls off because they were "forced" to enjoy playing with different pokemon. They just accepted that this is how the game works and either played it or didn't.

BTW, there is a person in several threads (I won't name names) who insists on bringing up CoD in EVERY SINGLE POST. If you are that crazy, in love, with CoD, then go play CoD. Why are you getting so worked up over something you don't like. You don't like it, don't play it. I fully support somebody's right to dislike whatever they want and to make it known that they dislike it, but the sheer number of posts by this person means that they are spending copious amounts of time, not only playing something they hate, but going online and posting about something they hate.

[Darubian]

I the great volus do not rely on a lottery system. You fools fail to realize that we volus have all of the money and we just buy what we want at a whim. *breathes*

[Cipher 8]

Assumedkilla wrote...

I appreciate developers going their own route and not following the ones already made, but this is the first (and hopefully only time) where I'll say I wish they stuck closer to Call of Duty. By that I mean skill based unlocks rather than random/luck ones, which makes no sense at all. Yes, I know COD didn't invent that... just using it as an example. Earning a mod for getting 50 headshots, or unlocking a new gun/alien race for leveling up makes way more sense than buying some freaking Magick cards and hoping for the best. If the lottery system they used was based off my gameplay then it would make sense, but I keep unlocking shotguns, sniper rifles, mods for them, and tech races when I'm an adept who switches between pistols, SMGs, and assault rifles. The lottery system feels like a bad attempt to keep the carrot in front of the horse, which this game doesn't need, since it's actually fun to play.

I completely disagree.

I'm sick of every game copying or taking the level up system of Call of Duty.

I dislike those type of systems because it feels like a grind. Get to this level unlock this specific weapon. You know what you're getting and you know when you get it so you just work your way towards it.

ME3's has that addictive nature to it. Earn the credits roll the dice and see what you get. Not what you wanted? Well back to the chopping block my friend and just earn another 20,000 credits and lets try this again. It's got that one more match addictiveness to it. Makes you wanna play again and again to see what you loot. I like that way more than okay only need 200,000 more xp to unlock my SCAR. 

I hope they don't change it and if they do the last system I want to see implemented is Call of Doodies...

Modifié par Cipher 8, 20 février 2012 - 01:50 .

[MythicLegands]

Cipher 8 wrote...

Assumedkilla wrote...

I appreciate developers going their own route and not following the ones already made, but this is the first (and hopefully only time) where I'll say I wish they stuck closer to Call of Duty. By that I mean skill based unlocks rather than random/luck ones, which makes no sense at all. Yes, I know COD didn't invent that... just using it as an example. Earning a mod for getting 50 headshots, or unlocking a new gun/alien race for leveling up makes way more sense than buying some freaking Magick cards and hoping for the best. If the lottery system they used was based off my gameplay then it would make sense, but I keep unlocking shotguns, sniper rifles, mods for them, and tech races when I'm an adept who switches between pistols, SMGs, and assault rifles. The lottery system feels like a bad attempt to keep the carrot in front of the horse, which this game doesn't need, since it's actually fun to play.

I completely disagree.

I'm sick of every game copying or taking the level up system of Call of Duty.

I dislike those type of systems because it feels like a grind. Get to this level unlock this specific weapon.

ME3's has that addictive nature to it. Earn the credits roll the dice and see what you get. Not what you wanted? Well back to the chopping block my friend. Just another 20,000 credits and lets try this again.

I hope they don't change it and if they do the last system I want to see implemented is Call of Doodies...

At least in COD I'll Finally get the thing I want after putting in a 100 hours into the game instead of getting human male soilder 9 times along with a bunch of useless stuff use/need. these packages have no addictiveness to them because their all random absolutely nothing to work foward too.

Modifié par MythicLegands, 20 février 2012 - 01:50 .

[Andy379]

Grim Intent wrote...

unlock system is beast. i can gamble and not lose real money. what's not to like?

[Cipher 8]

MythicLegands wrote...
At least in COD I'll Finally get the thing I want after putting in a 100 hours into the game instead of getting human male soilder 9 times along with a bunch of useless stuff use/need. these packages have no addictiveness to them because their all random absolutely nothing to work foward too.

Perhaps with the different packs in the full game it will be easier to get the rare character or item you want. There will be better packs than just Recruit and Veteran.

And if you read the stickied thread the dev's said...

In the demo, we recognize it can be difficult to unlock exactly the race/class/weapon you want to use without considerable play time.

What I can tell you is this: although the system is not likely going to go away, the demo has approximately half of the unlockable content that is present in the full game. While I can't speak to the chances of getting a very specific unlock, in general you should see more/better rewards from the packs you earn. 

So instead of getting the same stuff or stuff you may consider useless there will be a much wider array of stuff in full game for you to unlock. Meaing you probably won't get the same stuff over and over with there being 2x's more stuff. You may get stuff you consider useless but if you get something you don't want just go play some more and earn some more credits. Personally I think that's a plus. It makes me want to play the game. 

One thing that they could implement is maybe a trading system where you put up something for trade and request something you want that's equivalent in value or gear rating (common, uncommon, rare) or maybe trade 2 for 1. That would be awesome. If they restricted it to where you had to be in the lobby/the match to do it that would be fine even. That way if your playing with 3 friends and purchase a pack and unlock a shotgun but you don't use shotguns you can trade it to your friend who does for example in exchange for some Assault Rifle Mod or something.

If they don't want to add that maybe they could add vouchers which you unlock through packs but then can be used to spend on specific weapons, mods, or characters that you want. These vouchers would be rare (gold) unlocks so you wouldn't get them all the time but when you did you could choose which thing from a list that you wanted. They wouldn't have to do away with random weapons/items like they have now either because those would come up more often than vouchers would. I really like this idea and think it would solve people's quarrels of not being able to unlock the thing they want because eventually they would get the rare voucher and then could use it 1 time to purchase the specific item they wanted.

Idk just some thoughts but I think the system they have now is fine as long as they add in more Packs, which they will, so it's not just Recruit and Veteran. A Legendary that costs 50,000 credits and gives you the 5 with a guaranteed rare would be awesome. Then maybe a Ultimate where you're guaranteed 1 Uncommon and 1 Rare or something...

Modifié par Cipher 8, 20 février 2012 - 02:28 .

[Cipher 8]

Ender1221 wrote...

First of all, the developers have said there will be other packs in the full game which will have a much greater chance of providing rarer items.

As far as the randomness goes, it's actually a really common system that has been working for years in one fashion or another. Being the uber-nerd that I am, I am an avid fan of Magic: The Gathering. In MTG, you buy booster packs which have random cards. You usually get 1 rare, a couple of uncommons, and then the rest are commons. This is the norm. The company doesn't sell individual cards, just booster packs and preconstructed decks which have a couple of decent cards and the rest are all filler. MTG fans have been dealing for years without having a conniption.

Let's rewind a little further back. F***ing Pokemon uses a random system. That's the whole point of that game. How lame would that game have been if you could just pick all the pokemon you wanted from the beginning. You didn't see all the little kids screaming their balls off because they were "forced" to enjoy playing with different pokemon. They just accepted that this is how the game works and either played it or didn't.
 

Well said. It's not even for the "nerdy" trading card games either though. Madden/FIFA Ultimate Team does this sort of.

The only thing they do better, which I think would be awesome in ME3, is the ability to trade or sell items.

Negotiate trade offers for key players.
Bid on 100,000's of live auctions from around the globe.

If Bioware added something like this in it would only make their current system better IMO.

[*]

Modifié par Cipher 8, 20 février 2012 - 02:22 .

[FFinfinity1]

I would have preferred being able to buy guns or classes instead of having it random. Why not make it so one you get something, it doesn't appear anymore. This way one you have all classes and races unlocked, all you get is the regular cobra missile or medi-gel.

[Cipher 8]

FFinfinity1 wrote...

I would have preferred being able to buy guns or classes instead of having it random. Why not make it so one you get something, it doesn't appear anymore. This way one you have all classes and races unlocked, all you get is the regular cobra missile or medi-gel.

That is how it is. Once you unlock a weapon you can't unlock it again once you already have it. You can get upgrades for it though.

And if they did that with Medi-gel and Cobra Missiles it would totally ruin the game. You need them. You can only use 2 in each match but they save you in tough times. You can't rely on teammates to always revive you and in a pinch when you need to take down an Atlas quick there's nothing better than a Missile. If they made it so you never unlocked them after the first time it would just ruin the multiplayer...

[Thuggy]

Ender1221 wrote...

First of all, the developers have said there will be other packs in the full game which will have a much greater chance of providing rarer items.

As far as the randomness goes, it's actually a really common system that has been working for years in one fashion or another. Being the uber-nerd that I am, I am an avid fan of Magic: The Gathering. In MTG, you buy booster packs which have random cards. You usually get 1 rare, a couple of uncommons, and then the rest are commons. This is the norm. The company doesn't sell individual cards, just booster packs and preconstructed decks which have a couple of decent cards and the rest are all filler. MTG fans have been dealing for years without having a conniption.

Let's rewind a little further back. F***ing Pokemon uses a random system. That's the whole point of that game. How lame would that game have been if you could just pick all the pokemon you wanted from the beginning. You didn't see all the little kids screaming their balls off because they were "forced" to enjoy playing with different pokemon. They just accepted that this is how the game works and either played it or didn't.

To me the issue is....those examples you sited had a trade system. If the dice don't roll in your favor you could see what you friend got and trade your Krogan Soldier for the Turian Engineer (Just as an example). Getting that really really rare loot box is meaningless if it's not for a class/playstyle/weapon you're personally looking for. So what, I got the Revenant assault rifle. I'm an infitrator...I want the Widow.

[KengurBGD]

For me random system is totaly cool because it makes game more about skill in playing than leveling. I hate when game is only about leveling for your unique character. This is not a World of Warcraft so we all hurry to lvl up and when your max lvl fun stops do you remember Counter Strike no lvls endless fun skill is only what metters ? So for me when comes to Skill vs Big lvl Kid (who have time to play 20hours per day) type of system, skill type of game is better for me and random makes it more about skill rather than just lvl for your character game.

[Xerkysz]

CyndrusTheWarPig wrote...

Imagine you were playing WoW and the only way to get new gear was to buy one of those random chests and hope/pray you get something for your class.

You sir, just defined World of Warcraft and it's pathetic RNG system.

[Paula Deen]

I think all it needs is some diversivication and specialization of the packs. So, for instance, a relatively cheap pack containing only single-use items would be a great option. Likewise, a "Gold Sniper" pack that mainly provides high level sniper rifle weapons, related mods, and perhaps high level single-use items related to sniper rifles, but costs a hefty amount.

Obviously, the general ones would still be good to have.

That way, your odds of getting stuff at least in the AREA that you're looking for is much higher, and you at least always get stuff that is relevant.