155 réponses à ce sujet

[FoxholeHunter]

Agree with OP. Multiplayer was supposed to allow us to play as alien races in Mass Effect but all I have been able to use is human characters, no different to playing SP!!!

Hopefully the full game gives us more scope and chance of playing what we want.

[Subscyed]

To be quite honest, I'd much rather have (instead of a random drop system), one that grants a "race unlock" every 10-15 or so levels with the class, so there's actually a point and stimulus to sticking with a single class, and, leveling it with the ambition to unlock that one race you always dreamed of playing within the class.

*sigh*
Turian Sentinel... someday...

[CerberusSoldier]

I finally unlocked the turian sentinel and he is bad ass . but it took me for ever I had to level 2 classes to 20 to finally get him

[mredders91]

i would and i do think that come the retail version that there will be more pack for sale and will most like have much higher chance to get the other races/weapons/upgrades besides after a month or 2 will this realy be an issue

[darkblade]

the only time RNG unlock systems work right is when you are told the chances that you will get a certain item from that instance like lair runs in an MMO or dissidia's battlegen.

but you know what the difference between those games and this game is?

In mmo's and dissidia you can still buy most of the items in the game, in MMO there is an auction system to sell your dup rares, and Dissidia's battle gen tells you on a case by case basis what you can unlock during the fight.

Modifié par darkblade, 21 février 2012 - 02:21 .

[ApplesauceBandit]

they just need to create specific packages and all would be solved...well maybe not all but it would be better. Example: Character Pack - Unlock character races, appearance options. ect.
the cost could be like lets say 30,000 credits. It's still random in that you don't know which character you'll be getting, but at least you know what the hell you're actually buying.

[headcr4b]

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

shyzny wrote...

why is bioware so obsessed with random? Everyone hates it in swtor too

Sure everybody hates it... when you aren't getting what you want. So basically with that in mind, it's working as intended when you get what you want then right? 

I spent three days trying to unlock the Mattock and I aint even mad. This whole sense of Entitlement is the problem. RNG is RNG, the game owes you nothing.

EXACTLY. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. At least I'm not alone. The system is what it is. Sure people bought this game for entertainment. IT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DEMAND CHANGES TO THE SYSTEM TO FIT YOUR LIKING. The system is what it is. If you don't like it, thats perfectly understandable and acceptable. But people seem to assume that the product they bought MUST MATCH THEIR ENJOYMENT CRITERIA, not the other way around. You buy the game that matches your definition of fun, not demand the game change to fit YOUR definition of fun. I don't buy Call of Duty and demand it change it's multiplayer unlock system to fit whatever I want. Which is the exact reason why I proclaim "entitlement".

[Dangerfoot]

RNG for races is just stupid. At the very minimum they need to stop giving you the same mods/guns every single time. Make it so that once a gun has been acquired it's out of the RNG.

Ideally though, you should be able to spend credits on specific race/class combos you want OR how about just letting people choose the race/class combo they would like to play?

[KroganWarlord555]

I am not going to lie it was a pain but I finally got bot h the krogan and turian and they bit are awsome. Now going throught that ordeal I actually like the random drop. Though it does take a long time you do get what you want . I suggest saving your creds up till you master a class then spend all the points on veteran packages. That is how I got my drell, krogan, and turian all in about 2 days trust me I know it's hard but this will make it a bit easier

[CerberusSoldier]

headcr4b wrote...

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

shyzny wrote...

why is bioware so obsessed with random? Everyone hates it in swtor too

Sure everybody hates it... when you aren't getting what you want. So basically with that in mind, it's working as intended when you get what you want then right? 

I spent three days trying to unlock the Mattock and I aint even mad. This whole sense of Entitlement is the problem. RNG is RNG, the game owes you nothing.

EXACTLY. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. At least I'm not alone. The system is what it is. Sure people bought this game for entertainment. IT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DEMAND CHANGES TO THE SYSTEM TO FIT YOUR LIKING. The system is what it is. If you don't like it, thats perfectly understandable and acceptable. But people seem to assume that the product they bought MUST MATCH THEIR ENJOYMENT CRITERIA, not the other way around. You buy the game that matches your definition of fun, not demand the game change to fit YOUR definition of fun. I don't buy Call of Duty and demand it change it's multiplayer unlock system to fit whatever I want. Which is the exact reason why I proclaim "entitlement".

  



Oh is that why there was out cry in ME 2 because you are working with Cerberus and now in 3 we are not . This company has bent over and answered the demands from the VS fans and ME 1 fans and now someone says they should not answers demand no I am sorry they made the mistake of answering those fans demands . They need to fix this .

[ilovemesometurian]

I adore the system. It adds replay ability and excitement for me. But for some types I can see it might get annoying. But I honestly don't mind. I used a human Soldier for a while, unlocked the Turian Sentinel and went "Oh goody, Turian! Let's try the Sentinel." It's been my fav. multiplayer class ever since.

There are plenty of solutions to this I'm sure, but DEVS say it'll be more common to get weapons and characters in the full game due to the number of unlockables in the Demo to be at approximately half the amount.

[vonSlash]

headcr4b wrote...

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

shyzny wrote...

why is bioware so obsessed with random? Everyone hates it in swtor too

Sure everybody hates it... when you aren't getting what you want. So basically with that in mind, it's working as intended when you get what you want then right? 

I spent three days trying to unlock the Mattock and I aint even mad. This whole sense of Entitlement is the problem. RNG is RNG, the game owes you nothing.

EXACTLY. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. At least I'm not alone. The system is what it is. Sure people bought this game for entertainment. IT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DEMAND CHANGES TO THE SYSTEM TO FIT YOUR LIKING. The system is what it is. If you don't like it, thats perfectly understandable and acceptable. But people seem to assume that the product they bought MUST MATCH THEIR ENJOYMENT CRITERIA, not the other way around. You buy the game that matches your definition of fun, not demand the game change to fit YOUR definition of fun. I don't buy Call of Duty and demand it change it's multiplayer unlock system to fit whatever I want. Which is the exact reason why I proclaim "entitlement".

If I could buy the game that perfectly matched my definition of fun, I would. However, such a game doesn't exist, and so I make do with the next best thing, which is currently ME3. But ME3 isn't perfect, and so I offer advice on ho to improve it. Can you really blame me for wanting to persuade the devs to make a good game even better?

Apparently you think you can.

[emblemsage]

I was really lucky to get quarian engineer, the exact one I wanted, in the free starter pack.  Maxed out customization for human male soldier, and no other character cards so far.  I'm just dreading the fact I'll need to unlock the quarian again come full game.

[headcr4b]

CerberusSoldier wrote...

headcr4b wrote...

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

shyzny wrote...

why is bioware so obsessed with random? Everyone hates it in swtor too

Sure everybody hates it... when you aren't getting what you want. So basically with that in mind, it's working as intended when you get what you want then right? 

I spent three days trying to unlock the Mattock and I aint even mad. This whole sense of Entitlement is the problem. RNG is RNG, the game owes you nothing.

EXACTLY. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. At least I'm not alone. The system is what it is. Sure people bought this game for entertainment. IT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DEMAND CHANGES TO THE SYSTEM TO FIT YOUR LIKING. The system is what it is. If you don't like it, thats perfectly understandable and acceptable. But people seem to assume that the product they bought MUST MATCH THEIR ENJOYMENT CRITERIA, not the other way around. You buy the game that matches your definition of fun, not demand the game change to fit YOUR definition of fun. I don't buy Call of Duty and demand it change it's multiplayer unlock system to fit whatever I want. Which is the exact reason why I proclaim "entitlement".

  



Oh is that why there was out cry in ME 2 because you are working with Cerberus and now in 3 we are not . This company has bent over and answered the demands from the VS fans and ME 1 fans and now someone says they should not answers demand no I am sorry they made the mistake of answering those fans demands . They need to fix this .

Good god. The sense of entitement is overwhelming in your post. They don't HAVE to do ANYTHING.

I actually don't care at all about Shepard working with Cerberus or not. Personally I think storyline direction should be left to the writers, the fans have no business interfering with this. The owner of the IP determines what is canon in their universe, not the fans. So it has always been in every franchise and in every "universe", from Star Wars to Lord of the Rings. Also, how do you even know Bioware has "bent over and answered the demands"? From an article I read on Kotaku a while back, Bioware had supposedly planned Mass Effect to be a trilogy from the start and that they had the basic skeleton of the storyline also concieved very early. Maybe they planned this story progression all along. You assume way way WAY too much. Anyway.

Nowhere did I say that fans should stop holding Bioware (or any video game company, heck any COMPANY) to a high standard. After all we are spending money on their products. If they want us to keep coming back to buy their products, it is in their best interest to listen to us. But its not necessary for them to.

"They need to do this"? Are you SERIOUS? You and other fans want, sure. But they NEED TO? You miss the point that under no circumstance do they HAVE TO DO ANYTHING. You (and other fans) falsely believe that Bioware answers to YOU. They don't. But Bioware, being the nice fan-friendly company they are, listen to people like us to make our experience even better. But don't ever mistake their good will for obedience to your whims.

As to if the system needs tweaking to mitigate the inherent difficulties of a Random Number Generator (RNG) based drop system, that is something I would like. Increase the chances of rares or character classes to drop, fine. But leave the system alone. Its that you don't like the RNG system, not that its broken or unfair. I'm sure Bioware is doing what they can to accomodate people like you without having to change the system too much.

If you still can't understand what I'm saying, here:

WRONG: Bioware NEEDS to change the system, its broken and unfair and I'm not getting what I want.

RIGHT: Bioware, I am not enjoying the unpredictable nature of your unlock system. I have put a substantial amount of time into your game and am getting frustrated. It would be nice if you did something to help us. It would make our overall experience much more enjoyable.

[headcr4b]

vonSlash wrote...

headcr4b wrote...

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

shyzny wrote...

why is bioware so obsessed with random? Everyone hates it in swtor too

Sure everybody hates it... when you aren't getting what you want. So basically with that in mind, it's working as intended when you get what you want then right? 

I spent three days trying to unlock the Mattock and I aint even mad. This whole sense of Entitlement is the problem. RNG is RNG, the game owes you nothing.

EXACTLY. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. At least I'm not alone. The system is what it is. Sure people bought this game for entertainment. IT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DEMAND CHANGES TO THE SYSTEM TO FIT YOUR LIKING. The system is what it is. If you don't like it, thats perfectly understandable and acceptable. But people seem to assume that the product they bought MUST MATCH THEIR ENJOYMENT CRITERIA, not the other way around. You buy the game that matches your definition of fun, not demand the game change to fit YOUR definition of fun. I don't buy Call of Duty and demand it change it's multiplayer unlock system to fit whatever I want. Which is the exact reason why I proclaim "entitlement".

If I could buy the game that perfectly matched my definition of fun, I would. However, such a game doesn't exist, and so I make do with the next best thing, which is currently ME3. But ME3 isn't perfect, and so I offer advice on ho to improve it. Can you really blame me for wanting to persuade the devs to make a good game even better?

Apparently you think you can.

I can blame you. Blame you a LOT. Not for wanting better. Everybody should want better. But demanding it like an entitled fan who expects to have Bioware cater to their every need is completely the wrong attitude. Thats what I'm trying to point out. Theres a difference between a reasonable fan who WANTS better and a spoiled one who NEEDS better.

[Fadookie]

What if you got to pick your starting character from any race/class, but had to unlock the other non-default ones? I've seen this similar systems work well in some other games (Kongai, The Sims Social.) This way you can start playing as the character you want right off the bat, but still have an incentive to keep playing, so you can get other unlocks to try them out.

Or, what about a more expensive, but non-random shop that let you buy the characters or mods you wanted? A random character-only pack would work too as suggested above.

Modifié par Fadookie, 21 février 2012 - 12:34 .

[shyzny]

headcr4b wrote...

vonSlash wrote...

headcr4b wrote...

Hunter_Wolf wrote...

shyzny wrote...

why is bioware so obsessed with random? Everyone hates it in swtor too

Sure everybody hates it... when you aren't getting what you want. So basically with that in mind, it's working as intended when you get what you want then right? 

I spent three days trying to unlock the Mattock and I aint even mad. This whole sense of Entitlement is the problem. RNG is RNG, the game owes you nothing.

EXACTLY. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. At least I'm not alone. The system is what it is. Sure people bought this game for entertainment. IT DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DEMAND CHANGES TO THE SYSTEM TO FIT YOUR LIKING. The system is what it is. If you don't like it, thats perfectly understandable and acceptable. But people seem to assume that the product they bought MUST MATCH THEIR ENJOYMENT CRITERIA, not the other way around. You buy the game that matches your definition of fun, not demand the game change to fit YOUR definition of fun. I don't buy Call of Duty and demand it change it's multiplayer unlock system to fit whatever I want. Which is the exact reason why I proclaim "entitlement".

If I could buy the game that perfectly matched my definition of fun, I would. However, such a game doesn't exist, and so I make do with the next best thing, which is currently ME3. But ME3 isn't perfect, and so I offer advice on ho to improve it. Can you really blame me for wanting to persuade the devs to make a good game even better?

Apparently you think you can.

I can blame you. Blame you a LOT. Not for wanting better. Everybody should want better. But demanding it like an entitled fan who expects to have Bioware cater to their every need is completely the wrong attitude. Thats what I'm trying to point out. Theres a difference between a reasonable fan who WANTS better and a spoiled one who NEEDS better.

I don't understand what has you so at wits end, people really aren't being that demanding or having that much a sense of entitlement.  To me its a sense of entitlement if a person is complaining that it takes too long or this or that.  I'm not complaining about that at all, and don't agree with people saying you should get one free choice or anything like that.  I just think one has to consider what is and isn't ok left to RNG.  I think random can be alot of fun, but its best left to upgrades.  The example you gave earlier was Diablo 2, which I responded that Diablo 2 didn't make me kill bosses for a chance to unlock a certain class.  It might seem a small difference but I think it is that very difference which made this such a volitile argument and the angry side doesn't want to admit that anything should be random and your side doesn't want to admit that perhaps the race unlocks as random were a mistake.

  Its much more like constructive criticism.  I am merely voicing my opinions on what I think would be better (combination of random and non-random unlocks).  It almost seems like you would be really upset if they for example did remove races as random unlocks- but you don't want to admit that because in that scenario the table would be turned and it would be you that was perceived as "whining" when you voiced your opinion on it.  I know what its like, I still am mad about the change to ammo- lol (a case where Dev's took to heart criticism about people not liking having their weapons overheated and unable to use them). Honestly for me its not that big of a deal, I'm going to get and play the crap out of this game but I whole-heartedly believe they missed the boat on the way unlocks work (at least for races and at least as it is in the demo).  But if nobody ever made mention of their disfavor, nobody would ever question such decisions.  Yes, it is the internet and it probably doesn't mean as much as what the devs themselves decide while playing or even what critics say in their reviews but it has been shown recently to matter.

Modifié par shyzny, 21 février 2012 - 03:39 .

[Nite77]

 @headcr4b Okay I admit my analogy wasn't up to par, apparently. But the point still stands, however I might not be able to explain it. Drat. 

Okay, here goes another try. What would you think about this system:

1) Once you start MP, you don't have *ANY* characters or *ANY* classes unlock. zip, null, nada.
2) You receive one "Starter Pack" that includes ONE "race unlock of choice" and ONE "class unlock of choice". (NOT random! You can select ONE class/race combination that you want to start the game with. That's it.)
3) You unlock everything from this point onwards exactly as it is now, with random packs.

Because I, and I dare say most of the complainers here, would be okay with this system. This way we could all play with whatever is our preference, but we would still need to spend time to unlock anything extra.


I don't know how to explain it more clearly, but the system is definetly NOT fair as long as there are any default choices/unlocks that somebody else has decided, not us. The system is fair for everyone as long as you disregard EVERYTHING that is unlocked by default. If WE could be the ones to make the default choices, I'd be okay with that. I'm NOT against the underlying mechanics of RNG unlocks, per se. I just think including race unlocks in that system, with pre-selected default unlocks is... well, I don't know the words, sorry. But I feel it like they think "WE know better than you WHAT and HOW you'd like to play. We'll give you these initial unlocks for free because WE SAY YOU LIKE TO PLAY WITH THOSE." And THAT is wrong. NOBODY, execpt me, can say HOW and WHAT I like to play.

And please, don't get me started on that idea that females equal different race. Even you should understand why that is a Very Bad Idea™.

Keep races/classes unlockable (but please give US the ability to select the default) but by heavens exclude gender from that all. Let the player select (freely) what gender their player is, regardless of any unlocks. Once you start thinking that a "female" is equally different from "man" than a "Krogan"... Well, don't. Just... don't.

[Fraust Dogger]

headcr4b wrote...

I can blame you. Blame you a LOT. Not for wanting better. Everybody should want better. But demanding it like an entitled fan who expects to have Bioware cater to their every need is completely the wrong attitude. Thats what I'm trying to point out. Theres a difference between a reasonable fan who WANTS better and a spoiled one who NEEDS better.

Reponses like this make me feel like this is moving in a very negative direction. Since this is a forum we definitely have to be open to allowing all opinions and points of view to be discussed here (even if they aren't popular.)

With that said, headcr4b, I would appreciate it if you would not try to hijak the thread by going after everyone that disagrees with you. Your opinion is well understood by now. The problem I have with your opinion is that it interfears with my fun and the fun of others. All of us are not asking for the system to be completely abolished or remade. We simply want a small choice so we can play the race/class we want out of the gate, that's it. Giving us this does not spoil anything for you or anyone else. No one is demanding, but simply giving our feedback that we find it unacceptable for a "good" reward system.

Now, it's anyone's guess if bioware is actually reading AND even in a postion give us what we want in a patch. They very well may not be. I'd say you clearly feel threatened that they could since you seem to be fighting for something here. But what for and why? If we can unlock classes easier or pick one first, how does it hurt you in any way? It simply doesn't, which makes your influence in this thread seem like it is soley to pick an argument and doesn't make for very constructive conversation.

[KroganWarlord555]

You guys also know that this is only a demo right..... and will probably have more than one package and maybe even *GASP* a way to unlock character from the single player game, which is what they have been hinting at since they released the new. AND on a unrelated note I LOVE(yes i said it) The random drop system, yes it can be aggravating at time but what games unlock system isn't. I would rather have this than some COD bullcrap unlock where i have to be set level to get my krogan solider when i could have the chance to get him at a lower level, and yes I know that probably won't happen with the lot of you but you have to think, Bioware could have said. " You know what lets make the same amazing single player campaign we always have." But guess what they went out of their way to make an AMAZING multiplayer experience, and that is from the DEMO people. I am not the only one that thinks this too, almost all the people online that i have played with say the same thing, "ya it is annoying but it really does pay off in the end if you stick with it" me personally did not get my krogan till I was at N7 Level 90 and my soldier was at 17 and guess I had the time of my life not only when i got the krogan, but as the human vanguard/soldier and salarain infiltrator. so please stop complaining and if you don't like it don't play it .And by all means i am not saying I would hate if they changed it a little but seriusly you guy can't really think that in the demo they are going to show all they have to offer......DO YOU. FIN
(and may the best troll win)

Modifié par KroganWarlord555, 22 février 2012 - 02:27 .

[thanekicksazz]

I thought I was the only one. Good to know it is normal.

[Sporothrix]

KroganWarlord555 wrote...

You guys also know that this is only a demo right..... and will probably have more than one package and maybe even *GASP* a way to unlock character from the single player game, which is what they have been hinting at since they released the new.

Would you read what Lee wrote? There will be more packages and that's all - and that means you would have the same minimal chance to get character you actually WANT as in the demo. So you could _never_ get one, especially while you don't have time to play 10 hours a day.

It's especially a problem for female players who don't like to play as men, because they have much lesser pool of potential characters than males (only female humans and Asari), and that means much lesser chance to get a new female character...

Modifié par misoretu9, 23 février 2012 - 03:42 .

[Zerohour0]

misoretu9 wrote...

Would you read what Lee wrote? There will be more packages and that's all - and that means you would have the same minimal chance to get character you actually WANT as in the demo. So you could _never_ get one, especially while you don't have time to play 10 hours a day.

This.

While the devs have told us that there'll be more packs in the full release, I think they would have addressed the issue of character packs directly if they had the intention of having such a thing.  I could be wrong, but I'm sure it's their intention to have 'everything' randomized like this, as it increases the life of their multiplayer game if you're spending a lot of time TRYING to get everything you want to play with instead of actually playing with it.

Which I'd be cool with if instead of the multiplayer being advertised as "Battle alongside 3 of your friends, playing as races you love from the ME universe!" it was advertised as "Grind alongside 3 of your friends, hoping to one day unlock the races you love from the ME universe!"  After about 30 Veteran packs and still barely any kind of character unlocks, the only thing I've unlocked is a bitter taste in my mouth for this system.

Like I said before, I'm sure it's their intention to lengthen the amount of time we spend playing the MP by having the unlock system like this, but I honestly got tired of grinding with the same few classes (that I didn't even want in the first place), unable to get what I actually wanted.  I got bored of the MP demo due to the distinct lack of krogan, and the hopeless chance of obtaining one.  

You still have to reward the players for grinding, you can't just count on them going on forever, mindlessly droning toward what they want and never getting it.  Unlike horses (and most MMO players), we can see that stick the carrot is tied to, and we have the capacity to decide that pulling the carriage is no longer in our best interest.  I WANT MAH FRIGGEN CARROT, BIOWARE.

Being able to trade cards would be a nifty feature, though I doubt they'd do that.  I mean, I've been crossing my fingers for a krogan ever since I started opening those stupid packs, and so far I've only gotten customization options for exsisting stuff and an asari Adept.  And then I finally convince my friend to try out the demo, and she was determined to play as an asari, but she ended up getting a krogan with the starter pack...

....Just sayin'.

Modifié par Zerohour0, 23 février 2012 - 11:42 .

[KroganWarlord555]

misoretu9 wrote...

KroganWarlord555 wrote...

You guys also know that this is only a demo right..... and will probably have more than one package and maybe even *GASP* a way to unlock character from the single player game, which is what they have been hinting at since they released the new.

Would you read what Lee wrote? There will be more packages and that's all - and that means you would have the same minimal chance to get character you actually WANT as in the demo. So you could _never_ get one, especially while you don't have time to play 10 hours a day.

It's especially a problem for female players who don't like to play as men, because they have much lesser pool of potential characters than males (only female humans and Asari), and that means much lesser chance to get a new female character...

You know that both male and female humans are unlocked in the full game right from the start right.

[headcr4b]

Fraust Dogger wrote...

headcr4b wrote...

I can blame you. Blame you a LOT. Not for wanting better. Everybody should want better. But demanding it like an entitled fan who expects to have Bioware cater to their every need is completely the wrong attitude. Thats what I'm trying to point out. Theres a difference between a reasonable fan who WANTS better and a spoiled one who NEEDS better.

Reponses like this make me feel like this is moving in a very negative direction. Since this is a forum we definitely have to be open to allowing all opinions and points of view to be discussed here (even if they aren't popular.)

With that said, headcr4b, I would appreciate it if you would not try to hijak the thread by going after everyone that disagrees with you. Your opinion is well understood by now. The problem I have with your opinion is that it interfears with my fun and the fun of others. All of us are not asking for the system to be completely abolished or remade. We simply want a small choice so we can play the race/class we want out of the gate, that's it. Giving us this does not spoil anything for you or anyone else. No one is demanding, but simply giving our feedback that we find it unacceptable for a "good" reward system.

Now, it's anyone's guess if bioware is actually reading AND even in a postion give us what we want in a patch. They very well may not be. I'd say you clearly feel threatened that they could since you seem to be fighting for something here. But what for and why? If we can unlock classes easier or pick one first, how does it hurt you in any way? It simply doesn't, which makes your influence in this thread seem like it is soley to pick an argument and doesn't make for very constructive conversation.

Sorry, real life got in the way to replying to this thread. I had an even looooooonger reply written to reply to this. But realized it was unnecessary. For the sake of brevity, I'll simply state that I disagree on the fact I'm hijacking this thread in any way (my discussion on the RNG system, as well people's reaction to it, is on point with the thread). I disagree that "nobody is demanding", in this thread alone I count at least 5 people who are either demanding or are borderline, although the VAST MAJORITY (including you!) are what I consider the "good fans".

And I definitely am being misunderstood here. I'm not advocating that this system "should be fun" or that I'm "being threatened". My issue is this. People playing this demo aren't dumb. They see how the system works and understand that its based on luck. Before actually playing, the vast majority of people would have no initial problem with this system. Then they play. Some will get lucky. These people would have a great time and not have the same beef as everybody else. Some will not be as lucky but win enough to be satisfied. Then some will get the worst luck and never get what they want. They will be unhappy. Which, understandably, sucks.

From here, we get two kinds of people. The kind who understands and accepts the framework Bioware put out and then discusses ways to mitigate drawbacks of the system to satisfy as much people as possible. Then there are the "unlucky" ones who will then turn around and blame their un-enjoyment on the system itself (which if they won many times, would probably not complain as much). I find that the problem is with dissatisfaction with payout not an inherent "flaw" of the system itself, which is instead a balancing issue.

Note that I said its not a FLAW, but drawback before. Flaws implies aspects of the game which produce universally unpleasant experiences which vast majorities of players would consider bad. Such as lag, bugs, bad camera angles, bad writing, broken leveling systems, etc. Then there are drawbacks, which are much less black/white and commonly come down to a matter of taste. There are significant amount of gamers who love to play brutal RNG item drop games (many MMOs come to mind). There are a significant amount of gamers who hate that same system with all their guts. But that doesn't make this system right or wrong or "flawed" or otherwise. How are you to judge what another person calls fun and categorically say its broken? You can't. To do so is the absolute height of arrogance.

You have to separate balance of a system with a flawed system. A misbalanced system requires changing "weights" to make everything running smoothly. A flawed system is broken and needs to be changed on some fundamental level. This current RNG system definitely needs some balancing (which we will see how it turns out in the final retail product, this is after all just the demo). I myself am not completely happy with every aspect of the system Bioware put out. But I accept it. And sincerely hope (but do not "expect" or feel entitled to) Bioware makes an effort to accomodate me. But in no way do I claim what they put out was "flawed".

The difference may seem trivial to some. But there is a fundamental difference in each approach and should be treated as such.

My opinions in my earlier posts were just my experience and the reasons why I personally like the system Bioware implemented. But if you go back, I never insinuate the system was or should be enjoyable to everybody. I don't say people are wrong for not enjoying the system as I have. What I do disagree with is the reasoning behind SOME peoples complaints, not the complaints themselves.

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As to shyzny's reply, you're definition of entitlement is incorrect. Entitlement refers to the inherent right or claim to something, such as some fan's feeling of the right to be catered to by Bioware. Your definition regarding time is way too narrow in scope. And believe it or not, there is a difference between constructive criticism and entitled demands. The line between the two seems to be a bit blurry for you.

Your reaction also puzzles me, as I don't find any real evidence that my complaints lies with fans like you. As far as I can tell, you're cool?

Modifié par headcr4b, 28 février 2012 - 12:00 .