758 réponses à ce sujet

[Arppis]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Vanguards are pretty cool.

They are the best class in the game, imo.

[Kaylord]

No. Asari adept is. Stasis against boss mobs, throw against guardians, warp/throwplosions against atlas. It is just that not everybody likes to be squishy and fight mostly by evasion. That is where vanguards come with more action and BAM.

Modifié par Kaylord, 22 février 2012 - 12:51 .

[IlluminaZer0]

Kaylord wrote...

No. Asari adept is. Stasis against boss mobs, throw against guardians, warp/throwplosions against atlas. It is just that not everybody likes to be squishy and fight mostly by evasion. That is where vanguards come with more action and BAM.

It's a lot easier to flank an Asari Adept -- Asari Adepts really only truly excel in a support role. Stasis spam will likely be far weaker when there are more enemies with armor (such as Husks, or more generally mostly all the Reaper grunts...) that are running around.

I played with an Asari Adept all the time -- Without a supportive team Asari isn't really that special. I would say a human engineer is actually competitive with an Asari Adept, and definately more versatile.

I don't think either hold a candle to a Human Vanguard that knows what they are doing though. The irritating thing is "knows what they are doing" often simply infers being cautious and having 200% recharge bonus.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 22 février 2012 - 12:58 .

[maxulic]

Nashiktal wrote...

N7 Spectre525 wrote...

People getting pissed at Vanguards for playing the class the way its supposed to be played make me scratch my head. Vanguard...the tip of the spear, putting our asses on the line for the team and all we get is hate and jealously. Its not my fault a good Vanguard can destroy most enemies in seconds if played properly. Sounds like a lot of whiners need to step up there game and stop acting like ****ing babies.

Failed to address most of the problems presented and addressed the superficial ones. Fails to offer any actual advice to help promote synergy between the classes

Yup, nice reply.

Although to address the point you did make...

How great is the tip of the spear without the rest of the weapon to provide the force and thrust that makes the spear so effective in the first place? A good vanguard is ok, but a great vanguard works with his team. 

Well to be fair it also requires the team to be ok with working with a Vanguard. If you see that someone is good at playing Vanguard just accept the fact that (s)he is likely going to "lead" the fight, I mean where it is going to take place then it's up to the whole team to tell how it is going to take place.

Finally you recognize good players when they are good at their class but also know how to play the other ones and lastly how to create this synergy you were talking about. It takes at least two people to create a synergy (obvious statement is obvious) so you can't blame it all on one person, Vanguard.

Yesterday I was in a 3-man group with an Asari Adept, at some point when the Phantoms showed up she started to stasis them and I would charge in, boom no more phantom. When she realized that it would trigger a biotic explosion she started to use it even more. Eventually the 3rd team mate left and we ended rolling matches just the two of us, she kept using stasis on everything and I would charge into it, we just steam rolled wave after wave. I can tell you that I never had so much fun playing Vanguard and I'm pretty sure that the other person also had fun.

Conclusion: the team has to accept to work as a team in order to have teamwork to happen.

Modifié par maxulic, 22 février 2012 - 01:08 .

[Sr.Prize]

I'm not feeling this Nova move. It completely changes how Vanguards are played.

[Shadow of Terror]

Nova spammers are the ones more likely to live. The animations make you invincible, so by the time you finish, charge is back. When you try and play more careful on the higher difficulty, your shield gets instant striped faster than nova would, and then you're wide open to be shot at waiting to recharge.

[IlluminaZer0]

Shadow of Terror wrote...

Nova spammers are the ones more likely to live. The animations make you invincible, so by the time you finish, charge is back. When you try and play more careful on the higher difficulty, your shield gets instant striped faster than nova would, and then you're wide open to be shot at waiting to recharge.

Being careful does not neccesarily mean not charging, but deciding to charge a lower risk target.

That and an advanced Vanguard player that is not on complete automattic ability spam mode would mentally map safe cover areas they could flee to.

But other than nuance I obviously agree. I've seen players on Silver (not just video, personal experience) dominate by just brainlessly charging the closest thing in proximity. It was pretty obvious he was on full ability spam mode when he charged into an Atlas and at least two Guardians during extraction. And those are merely the enemies within proximity of my missle that allowed an ally to revive him...

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 22 février 2012 - 01:21 .

[Wulfram]

Kaylord wrote...

Nova is a risk. Have just one Nemesis outside Nova range and she snipes you right the momennt you novaed your own shield down. Same goes with turrets, who are not really impressed by any attempt to nova-stagger.

So, yes. Nova is playing save when all, really all enemies are close enough and no turrets around. But there are plenty of occasions where you did not see that Nemesis or those two turrets some steps away who are zooming in on you right in that precious vulnerable moment. Believe me, I tried several times to roll directly after charge or directly after nova for those fractures of seconds of vulnerability, but still, sometimes the snipe gets through and you are down and very embarrased because you again helped prejudice against vanguard players by typically charging off into the thickest pile of enemies and consequently died there without hope for timely team resurection.

On silver and gold, you thus better stay back and only charge in when you know the battlefield and preferably have Nemesis or towers locked onto your teammates. In those critical situations, it is better to not use nova and let you shield soak the eventual snipe while you recover for the next charge and do a roll for cover.

If you don't nova, then that sniper takes down your shield, leaves you incapable of Novaing with Charge still on cooldown and then you're really badly in trouble.

[Kaylord]

^^ Wulfram, the situation I described would kill you if you had used nova. In that situation I described (read it!), you have to use your shield as shield (doh!) for the time to sprint into cover instead of spamming that nova which makes said sniper kill you instead of just taking away your shield.

[playaplayer]

I have a level 20 vanguard human and Drell. Most people I play with don't like it when people play as vanguard, because it take a a lot of challenge out of the game. Same with asari adept.

[Chriss0978]

Most people I've heard complaining about vanguards do so because "Vanguards are only good at stealing kills." A great source of amusement for me.

[ttt333]

Shadow of Terror wrote...

Nova spammers are the ones more likely to live. The animations make you invincible, so by the time you finish, charge is back. When you try and play more careful on the higher difficulty, your shield gets instant striped faster than nova would, and then you're wide open to be shot at waiting to recharge.

Agreed.  The ony time I don't nova is if I don't have another charge target, and nova will kill my current target.  The feeling of using a nova, then looking around and seeing  . . . . no one is terrifying on a level with snipers.

[swenson]

We vanguards are awesome at stealing kills.

Anyone who thinks vanguard is useless or dying all the time just hasn't played with a good one, IMO. I'm not saying I'm a very good one (or at least I don't think I am), but when you can pull off a good charge-nova-charge-etc. streak, it's pretty awesome. Nobody can touch you if you can just zip off to your next target all the time!

On that note, does anyone actually use shockwave regularly? I put a couple of points in it just in case I ever wanted it, but... I never use it. It just wastes time that could be spent recharging nova or charge.

[Chriss0978]

swenson wrote...

We vanguards are awesome at stealing kills.

Anyone who thinks vanguard is useless or dying all the time just hasn't played with a good one, IMO. I'm not saying I'm a very good one (or at least I don't think I am), but when you can pull off a good charge-nova-charge-etc. streak, it's pretty awesome. Nobody can touch you if you can just zip off to your next target all the time!

On that note, does anyone actually use shockwave regularly? I put a couple of points in it just in case I ever wanted it, but... I never use it. It just wastes time that could be spent recharging nova or charge.

We are, thing is, most people don't realise that if you take most of the target's health, and someone else takes the final shot you will get the most points for the assist.

I use shockwave when I'm fighting Guardians, started doing so when I charged and nothing happened.

[maxulic]

Chriss0978 wrote...

swenson wrote...

We vanguards are awesome at stealing kills.

Anyone who thinks vanguard is useless or dying all the time just hasn't played with a good one, IMO. I'm not saying I'm a very good one (or at least I don't think I am), but when you can pull off a good charge-nova-charge-etc. streak, it's pretty awesome. Nobody can touch you if you can just zip off to your next target all the time!

On that note, does anyone actually use shockwave regularly? I put a couple of points in it just in case I ever wanted it, but... I never use it. It just wastes time that could be spent recharging nova or charge.

We are, thing is, most people don't realise that if you take most of the target's health, and someone else takes the final shot you will get the most points for the assist.

I use shockwave when I'm fighting Guardians, started doing so when I charged and nothing happened.

I take Guardians with my Charge too, it's usually enough to knock them, pull their shield away and aim a headshot.

I mostly use my Shockwave when I can't wander around, for instance when it is time to get extracted, etc.

Modifié par maxulic, 22 février 2012 - 02:22 .

[witlessrogue85]

I was playing a Drell Vanguard. Main thing that I used was the Pull ability. Definitely some crowd control there (when you have the 2m impact thing anyhow).

Every time I used Charge, it just seemed to put me into the middle of a lethal crossfire. The best thing it did for me, is let me move to a different area, or avoid enemies trying to shoot my face off.

Otherwise not to shabby. Hard to tell if Barrier wore down fast or not (I think it did, but then he wasn't as high level as my Soldier at the time).

[Nesher666]

swenson wrote...

...
On that note, does anyone actually use shockwave regularly? I put a couple of points in it just in case I ever wanted it, but... I never use it. It just wastes time that could be spent recharging nova or charge.

Yea, I do when I'm playing Vanguard. They are very effective against Guardians, because there is a moment, when they are strucked by the power and their body isn't covered with their shield. This is the exact time, when I use my shotgun to rip their heads off in a frontal attack!

[IlluminaZer0]

swenson wrote...

We vanguards are awesome at stealing kills.

Anyone who thinks vanguard is useless or dying all the time just hasn't played with a good one, IMO. I'm not saying I'm a very good one (or at least I don't think I am), but when you can pull off a good charge-nova-charge-etc. streak, it's pretty awesome. Nobody can touch you if you can just zip off to your next target all the time!

On that note, does anyone actually use shockwave regularly? I put a couple of points in it just in case I ever wanted it, but... I never use it. It just wastes time that could be spent recharging nova or charge.

The best (human) Vanguard player I played with surprisingly used shockwave.

During a defense mission, he spammed shockwave at an angle through the wall to completely block off a front to make it easier for us to defend,.

I'm not a big shockwave fan myself though.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 22 février 2012 - 02:24 .

[Chriss0978]

maxulic wrote...

Chriss0978 wrote...

swenson wrote...

We vanguards are awesome at stealing kills.

Anyone
who thinks vanguard is useless or dying all the time just hasn't played
with a good one, IMO. I'm not saying I'm a very good one (or at least I
don't think I am), but when you can pull off a good
charge-nova-charge-etc. streak, it's pretty awesome. Nobody can touch
you if you can just zip off to your next target all the time!

On
that note, does anyone actually use shockwave regularly? I put a couple
of points in it just in case I ever wanted it, but... I never use it. It
just wastes time that could be spent recharging nova or charge.

We
are, thing is, most people don't realise that if you take most of the
target's health, and someone else takes the final shot you will get the
most points for the assist.

I use shockwave when I'm fighting Guardians, started doing so when I charged and nothing happened.

I take Guardians with my Charge too, it's usually enough to knock them, pull their shield away and aim a headshot.

I mostly use my Shockwave when I can't wander around, for instance when it is time to get extracted, etc.

I use Shockwave against Guardians because sometimes Charge isn't enough to get their damn shield out of the way.

witlessrogue85 wrote...

I was playing a Drell Vanguard. Main thing that I used was the Pull ability. Definitely some crowd control there (when you have the 2m impact thing anyhow).

Every time I used Charge, it just seemed to put me into the middle of a lethal crossfire. The best thing it did for me, is let me move to a different area, or avoid enemies trying to shoot my face off.

Otherwise not to shabby. Hard to tell if Barrier wore down fast or not (I think it did, but then he wasn't as high level as my Soldier at the time).

I am unable to use the Drell Vanguard, got too damn used to the Charge+Nova combo. Anyway, I think that the Drell Vanguard should use Charge to get away like you said, or sometimes to flank enemies, even then it would be risky.

[Kaylord]

Stealing kills, pffft.

Nemesis far away behind cover? ZAP-BAM. In the meanwhile, Phantoms or Atlas advancing close to your team? ZAP-BAM. Now Guardians had enough time closing in unopposed as no one seems to be able to headshot through that small shield visor? ZAP-BAM. Pesky Nemesis or Assaulter sneaked up behind or flanks your team? ZAP-BAM. All enemies converging on your team huddled together? ZAP-BAM.

While your sniper teammate struggles to reload fast enough his widow rifle,
when the soldier´s assault rifle cannot stop every enemy at once,
when the asari adept´s shield got nailed once again and she bioticdives for cover,
when a krogan cannot run fast enough,
when an infiltrator just cloaks away,
when the engineer can only defense strip so much,
and the sentinel locks up in single combat melee,
that´s when the vanguard shines as great asset to the team.

Modifié par Kaylord, 22 février 2012 - 02:36 .

[Chriss0978]

Kaylord wrote...

Stealing kills, pffft.

Nemesis far away behind cover? ZAP-BAM. In the meanwhile, Phantoms or Atlas advancing close to your team? ZAP-BAM. Now Guardians had enough time closing in unopposed as no one seems to be able to headshot through that small shield visor? ZAP-BAM. Pesky Nemesis or Assaulter sneaked up behind or flanks your team? ZAP-BAM. All enemies converging on your team huddled together? ZAP-BAM.

While your sniper teammate struggles to reload fast enough his widow rifle,
when the soldier´s assault rifle cannot stop every enemy at once,
when the asari adept´s shield got nailed once again and she bioticdives for cover,
when a krogan cannot run fast enough,
when an infiltrator just cloaks away,
when the engineer can only defense strip so much,
and the sentinel locks up in single combat melee,
that´s when the vanguard shines as great asset to the team.

If only more people thought like you do.... Is it so hard to realise that this is a Co-op game and that every team member will get the same amount of exp no matter what?

[Arppis]

Chriss0978 wrote...

swenson wrote...

We vanguards are awesome at stealing kills.

Anyone who thinks vanguard is useless or dying all the time just hasn't played with a good one, IMO. I'm not saying I'm a very good one (or at least I don't think I am), but when you can pull off a good charge-nova-charge-etc. streak, it's pretty awesome. Nobody can touch you if you can just zip off to your next target all the time!

On that note, does anyone actually use shockwave regularly? I put a couple of points in it just in case I ever wanted it, but... I never use it. It just wastes time that could be spent recharging nova or charge.

We are, thing is, most people don't realise that if you take most of the target's health, and someone else takes the final shot you will get the most points for the assist.

I use shockwave when I'm fighting Guardians, started doing so when I charged and nothing happened.

Do you know why nothing happened? Because the guardian was already in knockback animation. 

If you use charge on them when they don't have another animation going, their shields will fly to the side! 

[Chriss0978]

Arppis wrote...

Chriss0978 wrote...

swenson wrote...

We vanguards are awesome at stealing kills.

Anyone who thinks vanguard is useless or dying all the time just hasn't played with a good one, IMO. I'm not saying I'm a very good one (or at least I don't think I am), but when you can pull off a good charge-nova-charge-etc. streak, it's pretty awesome. Nobody can touch you if you can just zip off to your next target all the time!

On that note, does anyone actually use shockwave regularly? I put a couple of points in it just in case I ever wanted it, but... I never use it. It just wastes time that could be spent recharging nova or charge.

We are, thing is, most people don't realise that if you take most of the target's health, and someone else takes the final shot you will get the most points for the assist.

I use shockwave when I'm fighting Guardians, started doing so when I charged and nothing happened.

Do you know why nothing happened? Because the guardian was already in knockback animation. 

If you use charge on them when they don't have another animation going, their shields will fly to the side! 

As far as I know their shields go flying when you Charge at them from behind or the sides.

[Razorsedge820]

I hate it when my infiltrator lines up to take head shots when suddenly a vanguard comes charging into my scope and spams the hell out of nova ruining my plan. Usually when I play as a infiltrator and see a vanguard on the team I just quite, vanguards and infiltrators just don't go well with each other.

Modifié par Razorsedge820, 22 février 2012 - 02:51 .

[wicked_being]

Dear Vanguards,
I'm an asari adept who loves her supporting role. I will spam stasis bubble all over the place so please feel free to attack and watch my back. I don't mind you getting all the kills because I get more points with my assists

Anyway...you people should quit crying about getting your kills stolen. This is a co-op game. What's important is do your role, get the job done and survive.