758 réponses à ce sujet

[dkf360]

 The competitiveness combined with biotic rush often ends up causing most vanguards I've ran into  to throw away all strategy in order to gain points.  There's been several times where all the vanguard on the team does is use biotic charge on opponents that were already being attacked in order to steal the kill.  I honestly could care less about the points, but they end up putting themselves in danger and have themselves surrounded when they fall, making it impossible to save them. 

However, I have actually ran into a few vanguards that ended up being the reason why my team won a match.  Especially my first gold difficulty mission that I actually won.  I had a lvl. 19 vanguard on my team that actually knew what they were doing, and stuck close to the rest of us, and ended up saving the entire team on several occasions.  The only time this vanguard ever used biotic charge was when the enemy rushed us and got in close quarters.

So it really depends if the vanguard is in it to be a team player or a point-hog.

[Fuzzumsbetrayer]

1st- You claim vanguards need less quick reflexes and reaction speed than infiltrator. Worst claim you've made. In what world does lining up a shot need reflex? Since you're so fond of definitions, here's one-
reflex
— n
1. a. an immediate involuntary response
Lining up a shot as a sniper is anything but immediate, involuntary, or reactionary. Snipers don't need quicker reaction or reflex, unless its to pull off a shot on a moving target, and that hardly qualifies as more than a vanguard given how they immediately have to target new enemies or risk getting their barriers blown after a nova.

2nd- Both are useful to the team, and to claim otherwise is stupid unless your only experience is with a bad player. Fact is, vanguards do make good tanks, whether its covering the teams back or attracting aggro to ease the load on the team. Going off and drawing most of the enemy's fire to the right while your infiltrators get all the objectives on the left is a great way to maximize time bonuses on credit waves. However, both need to work as a team in order to be effective. If a vanguard has a big group on him, chances are he'll die from a badly-timed nemesis shot or just one too many assault troopers. However, if he's in your range and you aren't covering him just because you're pissed he's getting more kills and "being a lone wolf", then you suck just as bad, because chances are you could have saved him and by extension your team from a wipe. Infiltrators can deal with snipers and assault troopers just as efficiently as vanguards can phantoms, centurions, and combat engineers. They have their roles, and they synergize just fine when you throw score out the window and play the game

[DivineAura]

I'm loving asari adept and female vanguard.
Feels good using nova and biotic charge repeatedly!

[dw99027]

I mostly play Vanguard, but I like Infiltrator too. When I'm scoping for a Nemesis or Phantom to kill and find few if any, it's safe to assume that our beloved scapegoat has prioritised and dispatched them.

Oh, and next time your buddy Vanguard dies far away (because, you know, he HAS TO CHARGE to stay alive) it's your choice to go get him or not. Just know that the momend you raise him , that area is immediately clear.

Plus, you will certainly gain a newfound respect for Vanguards when one of them charges the exact moment a Cerberus boot begins its downward trajectory towards your neck.

[oOmpie]

Fuzzumsbetrayer wrote...

1st- You claim vanguards need less quick reflexes and reaction speed than infiltrator. Worst claim you've made. In what world does lining up a shot need reflex?

Tbh a properly played Vanguard is not very dependant on reflex shots either. Yes, overseeing the battlefield and making snap decisions are a big part of vanguarding, but most of the action is already planned out before you hit the Charge button and hardly requires any flick shots.

The same goes for sniping infiltrators. Imho a proper sniper will seek out targets unscoped, scope in, micro adjust and pull the trigger.

Situational awareness reduces the necessity of quick reflexes.

[gunsagogo]

i've never ran into someone who hates vanguards, and personally I love them. Was once blessed to have a team of 4 level 13-15 vanguards. Had no coms but we eventually got into the rythm of 1 person charging in, another charging in, and if neccessary, both using nova to "nuke" an entire crowd.
atlas's were fun as hell, just kept charging it over and over, knocking it off-balance. (ofc i was the one to get grabbed).

only problem I have is this god damn GLITCH. I save up some of my best buffs to do a gold challenge, 4th wave in im warping everywhere and unable to play

good practice for vanguards is to stay generally around cover, and always make sure your going to have another target to charge at to recharge barriers. You stop moving with the vanguard and your dead o.0

Modifié par gunsagogo, 24 février 2012 - 08:47 .

[dw99027]

Oompie , turning your Vanguard around and charging your next target without losing time adjusting your crosshairs is the very definition of quick reflexes. So much so that anyone with poor hand-eye coordination or slight disability cannot even play the class on multiplayer. Failure to properly lock onto someone within 3 seconds results in death on Gold. I understand what you're saying, but going by definition, Vanguards are the the most reflex-demanding class in MP. SP will be a JOKE for those trained in real-time action.

[Destructo-Bot]

dkf360 wrote...

 The competitiveness combined with biotic rush often ends up causing most vanguards I've ran into  to throw away all strategy in order to gain points.  There's been several times where all the vanguard on the team does is use biotic charge on opponents that were already being attacked in order to steal the kill.  I honestly could care less about the points, but they end up putting themselves in danger and have themselves surrounded when they fall, making it impossible to save them. 

However, I have actually ran into a few vanguards that ended up being the reason why my team won a match.  Especially my first gold difficulty mission that I actually won.  I had a lvl. 19 vanguard on my team that actually knew what they were doing, and stuck close to the rest of us, and ended up saving the entire team on several occasions.  The only time this vanguard ever used biotic charge was when the enemy rushed us and got in close quarters.

So it really depends if the vanguard is in it to be a team player or a point-hog.

Greetings! You gain points proportional to damage done. I've gotten plenty of 90 point kills when the other guy got a 400 point assist. Secondly, XP is added up on round end and distributed equally to everybody, hence no kill-stealing. Thirdly, any other player could "steal kills" by using their talents: grenades, rapid fire weapons, biotic explosions, mines, and so on. Fourthly, a vanguard charge is quick but not instant... so if a vanguard could get their and "steal your kill", you weren't doing the job fast enough.

I play both Vanguard and Infilitrator.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 24 février 2012 - 09:09 .

[dkf360]

Destructo-Bot wrote...

Greetings! You gain points proportional to damage done. I've gotten plenty of 90 point kills when the other guy got a 400 point assist. Secondly, XP is added up on round end and distributed equally to everybody, hence no kill-stealing. Thirdly, any other player could "steal kills" by using their talents: grenades, rapid fire weapons, biotic explosions, mines, and so on. Fourthly, a vanguard charge is quick but not instant... so if a vanguard could get their and "steal your kill", you weren't doing the job fast enough.

I play both Vanguard and Infilitrator.

Why, thank you!  I'm not sure why I haven't gotten on these forums sooner.

Right, I mean like I said, I'm not worried about the points, but some of the vanguards I run into just seem over-competitive.  Of course, these vanguards I speak of are usually lower than lvl. 15 and have a low N7 rating, so that probably has more to do with it.  Or maybe it's just the fact that so many people play vanguard, so they tend to stick out more.  

[oOmpie]

dw99027 wrote...

Oompie , turning your Vanguard around and charging your next target without losing time adjusting your crosshairs is the very definition of quick reflexes. So much so that anyone with poor hand-eye coordination or slight disability cannot even play the class on multiplayer. Failure to properly lock onto someone within 3 seconds results in death on Gold. I understand what you're saying, but going by definition, Vanguards are the the most reflex-demanding class in MP. SP will be a JOKE for those trained in real-time action.

Perhaps it's my Quakeworld background and lowish sensitivity, but I find it not that reflexy at all, especially when playing decent. Being all quick flicky is mostly an indication that I'm failing to look around properly

[Chaoswind]

I think you people need to chill, there are some of you that are trying to justify lone wolf behavior in a team game, and worse some are even implying that your team has to follow you around...

Now I can see why some people hate vanguards, you ARE the tip of the spear, empathize TIP, if your team is getting boxed in by the enemies is the vanguard duty and has/should find the weakest spot to break through and your team has to follow you, you only pull all the agro to you when the numbers are reduced by long/mid distance shooting or your team has to break through...

Vanguard is the harder class to play in this game, because you got a ton of fire power and you have to know how to use it, and charging like an idiot ISN'T the way to use a vanguard.

A vanguard needs superb reflexes when things go wrong, be much smarter than your average bear to plan properly to avoid things going wrong.

[magnuskn]

Butthead11 wrote...

Jestina wrote...

He's just making making excuses for all the ****** infiltrators on multi-play that are all about kill scores and not helping the team..

I have not exscused any ****** play,

I have simply challenged your idea of Infilly ****** play. You seem to think that snipers are easy mode when compared to the vanguard charge spammer build, and all they have to do is point and shoot from the same spot the whole match and will be able to top the charts by simply doing that. 


The only reason i got back involved in this forsaken thread is because of your ludicrous suggestion that playing a vanguard requires higher reflexes and reaction speed than playing the infilly.

Playing an Infiltrator definitely involves less reflexes and reaction speed than a Vanguard. It does involve a much higher talent for anticipating enemy moves, however. Which I sadly mostly suck at, although I am semi-decent with my Salarian infiltrator.

[magnuskn]

Jestina wrote...

For the infiltrators that like to sit in a cozy spot, thinking their kill score is more important...then I generally lure something big and nasty over to where they are camped.

Oh, i'm sorry if I messed up your neat little target range...maybe you should stick with single player.

Look, when I am playing my Vanguard, I want to be a mobile wrecking ball ( although I know to stick back and snipe with my Carnifex/Phalanx when defense of a spot is called for ). But when I am playing my Infiltrator, I want to snipe targets... that's one of the main playstyles of the class. Sure, I change my position when the action is on the other side of the map... I am not being helpful doing nothing in a spot without enemies. But when I arrive at the new location, I'll take my favorite sniping spot and pop some heat sinks.

[Warazn]

By reading this thread I'm just sad that people dont admit vanguard is way too much OP.

Vanguard has best mobility.
Vanguard has the best tanking abilities.
Vanguard overall dps is just insane.

I can understand ppl tend to like facerolling a keyboard and think they are skilled, I mean it's a game and we are here to have fun, the problem is they take out the fun of many other people. (27 pages dont lie)

Me3 multi could have been challenging but vanguard just ruins it.

Possible solution

Reduce Charge range and Nova damage
Make a cap, it shoudl be used a LOT less often, like once every 6 second at least
Remove vanguards from mulptiplayer (the best imo)

[Chaoswind]

Wrong I get top score, with vanguard, soldier, sentinels, infiltrators, and I have yet to figure out how to play engineer properly so I end 3 or last with one.

Is not the class is the player, if not why people that are beast with vanguard are also beast with other classes? And NO bronze is in no way the dificulty to base the balance of the classes.

[Chaoswind]

Also vanguard DPS is insane in BRONZE, but you will see that a turian sentinel with level x weapons, with weapon damage/stability has a much beastly DPS and doesn't need to be close and personal to do damage.

[Hyrist]

Vanguard needs no buff/nerf.

Game is balanced with difficulty scaling. Most players who are complaining about Vanguard damage are seeing a higher level character on a lower difficulty setting, in which everyone is a beast.

Vanguards are meant to be disruptive to the enemy, this tends to net them a lot of points because the disruption comes with some nifty damage. Vanguard doing their job will often be high in the point scale, but can often be topped by those with penetrating damage as the difficulty rises. (Allo Widow Infiltrators and Asari Adepts.)

I'm actually quite amazed at how well balanced it is.

[nestum]

I almost always play as a soldier, and I simply love to follow my fellow vanguard and use my adrenalyn bonus to crack those enemies that are concentrated on him

[Reapinger]

Vanguard is a disruptive class for sure. A soldier or adept rolling with a vanguard is a deadly combo. Asari adept can biotic explosion anything with a stasis and charge or she can biotic explosion herself with stasis/throw. Soldier is great to chip away the last bits of health after a good charge or charge/nova/charge combo etc. Infiltrators can also do this but are farther away usually.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Butthead11 wrote...
So a vanguard doing all the killing and having all the fun is it's class role and the other classes role are merely cover? to make sure the idiot dosen't get hit as much or to make sure it's easier for him to nova everything?

Are you kidding me? 

You said that.. not me... so the real question is... are you kidding yourself?

Their job is to destroy the enemy just like a Vanguard is supposed to do.  Vanguards are close-range specialists...  As part of a team (and solo), a close range specialist will what? 

Answer:  Fight at close range

As part of the team, what do the other members need to do?  Destroy the enemy and defend their allies (as usual).  I'm sure you can connect the dots here...


A Real Team Amplifies each member's strengths and negates their weaknesses.  Not being a "real team" gets you killed... not a Vanguard being a Vanguard.  Anything else is just an issue with that player's skill with that class.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 février 2012 - 09:41 .

[Sidney]

Warazn wrote...

By reading this thread I'm just sad that people dont admit vanguard is way too much OP.

Vanguard has best mobility.
Vanguard has the best tanking abilities.
Vanguard overall dps is just insane.

I can understand ppl tend to like facerolling a keyboard and think they are skilled, I mean it's a game and we are here to have fun, the problem is they take out the fun of many other people. (27 pages dont lie)

Me3 multi could have been challenging but vanguard just ruins it.

Possible solution

Reduce Charge range and Nova damage
Make a cap, it shoudl be used a LOT less often, like once every 6 second at least
Remove vanguards from mulptiplayer (the best imo)

I've had far more kills "stoeln" from me by some dink with a sniper rile than by any Vanguards. The snipers are the most wildly overpowered bunch and they carry no risk - for all you gutless SoB's who use the sniper rilfes - and get insane kills. The Vanguard isn't overpowered. I've topped the score list with my Vanguard but when I play as an Engineer it isn't uncommon for me to top the Vanguards.

[Hoki]

I wasn't aware people could communicate in this game. Theres no chat?

[IlluminaZer0]

*double post*

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 24 février 2012 - 10:21 .

[IlluminaZer0]

All you need to do to make (Human) Vanguard balanced is have Nova freeze cooldown recharge during it's invulnerability animations.

I don't really get why so many people talk of "Vanguard reflexes." Spamming auto-target charge and hitting Nova doesn't take remarkable reflexes. Most (Human) Vanguards that try to play "skillfully" are usually gimping themselves out of invulnerability frames.

Modifié par IlluminaZer0, 24 février 2012 - 10:21 .